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[Jedi Master of Orion]

It doesn't say what the ritual was or who it was being performed on, as I recall.

[Lavaeolus]

@above:

The exact dialogue is:

Thanks to Sister Leliana’s information, we were able to enter Redcliffle Castle with none the wiser. While most of the main force had long since departed, a small group of Tevinter mages was still present. They were in the middle of some sort of ritual when we arrived. We interrupted it and captured one of the mages alive. The rest fought to the death. Hopefully Sister Leliana can get useful information from the survivor about what happened at Redcliffe Castle.
Lieutenant Cremisius Aclassi

and

Inquisitor,
The Venatori mage captured by the Bull's Chargers at Redcliffe has given us valuable information on how the Venatori were able to co-opt the rebel mages. Specifically, he speaks of an agent among the Fereldan nobility who prepared the mages at Redcliffe for the Venatori.

Arl Gallagher Wulff evidently allied with the Venatori with good intentions. He believed the rebel mages would withdraw to Tevinter, where they would lead a better life while their absence restored peace and stability to Ferelden.

The ritual's purpose is unclear: there are no rebel mages at the ritual, so it doesn't seem like a direct brainwash thing. Arl Wulff helped the Venatori politically to convince the mages, but nothing more is really said on how they "co-opted" them beyond general trickery.

[Boost32]

I have no doubt there were mages who joined willingly. In In Hushed Whispers we see such a case with that one mage in the inn. Likewise there are Templars who joined willingly, explaining why each side still exists regardless of which faction you save. 
 

Yes I have, actually. 

Wait, you think the Wardens deserved what happened to them? 
 
Yes it is. It's one of the oldest forms of brainwashing. The systemic threat of pain or death melds the person to being compliant.

So you should already know what Lavaeolis wrote.

Yes, I do, but it doesnt have anything to do with this discussion.

We can say the same thing over and over, we are not going to agree if threats are brainwash or not.

[Archdemon_Urthemiel]

It doesn't say what the ritual was or who it was being performed on, as I recall.

Also, isn't the Venatori torturer In the Mage mission the same as the pro circle Mage in the tavern

[Boost32]

Also, isn't the Venatori torturer In the Mage mission the same as the pro circle Mage in the tavern

Even if he is, how its prove anything? Is there any codex or dialogue starting he was brainwashed?The fact is, we dont know what happened to him after the Inquisitor was sent to the future.

[Archdemon_Urthemiel]

Considering Weekes' quote, I doubt the devs care about this as much as BSN does. Seems like they assume others would think the other side was brainwashed

[Archdemon_Urthemiel]

Even if he is, how its prove anything? Is there any codex or dialogue starting he was brainwashed?The fact is, we dont know what happened to him after the Inquisitor was sent to the future.

Still more evidence than you've ever shown

[Jedi Master of Orion]

That's why even a single line of dialogue or two would have clarified the situation a lot. It would have been nice to get a clearer picture one way or another.

[Boost32]

Still more evidence than you've ever shown

I showed Dorian dialogue, what you showed?
In fact, you are the one claim they were brainwashed, you need to show the evidence of your claim.

[Archdemon_Urthemiel]

I showed Dorian dialogue, what you showed?
In fact, you are the one claim they were brainwashed, you need to show the evidence of your claim.

Seems like you've ignored every piece of evidence that doesn't support your viewpoint. There have been plenty of threads regarding the subject and you constantly ignore evidence.

I'm starting to think you are trolling

[Jedi Master of Orion]

Also, isn't the Venatori torturer In the Mage mission the same as the pro circle Mage in the tavern

 

Yes he is. But in that case, I feel like he could conceivably been changed via any number of means. Either by mind control or just being so lost and afraid he flung himself into zealous loyalty to the Elder One, and then deciding it was the only thing left to him.

[myahele]

Blood Magic, just like Clarel

[Jedi Master of Orion]

Blood Magic, just like Clarel

 

Clarel wasn't controlled by blood magic.

[myahele]

You don't need to be a mindless oaf to be under a blood magic spell.

[Boost32]

Seems like you've ignored every piece of evidence that doesn't support your viewpoint. There have been plenty of threads regarding the subject and you constantly ignore evidence.
I'm starting to think you are trolling

No i didnt ignored them, I commented on every single of those"proofs".
Look at the Lavaeolus and Jedi Master of Orion's posts, they used the same argument I did, are they trolling too? None of those proofs indicated they were brainwashed.

If you cant sustain you theory dont call others trolls because they disagree with you.

[MisterJB]

Also, isn't the Venatori torturer In the Mage mission the same as the pro circle Mage in the tavern

 

No, it's the pro-Circle mage standing near the statue honoring the Warden.

And I believe it was simply meant to show how certain people will always flock towards the powerful and thus can't be trusted.

 

[Jedi Master of Orion]

You don't need to be a mindless oaf to be under a blood magic spell.

 

But it was said in game specifically she wasn't control by blood magic. The Tevinter mage just said he offered her power and the Wardens destroyed themselves. She just made really bad choices. 

[leaguer of one]

Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. 

[Lavaeolus]

Clarel is definitely not being controlled with blood magic. Make no mistake, they're being tricked and the Warden mages who do the ritual are being taken over, but the specific actions she choose to take -- blood sacrifices to raise a demon army, to defeat the Blight after they're gone -- is on her, something the game is pretty clear on. Cole and Cassandra have some banter on it, where Cole assures Cass that she's not like Clarel. This being the information age, I can get it pretty quickly.

Spoiler

Cole: Warden-Commander Clarel wasn't like you, Cassandra.
Cassandra: Thank you, Cole... I think. I never met Clarel, but I will take that as a compliment.
Cole: She fell because she fell. That's how Erimond convinced her to hurt people. He made it look like bravery.
Cole: She called it a choice, but it was a lie. She was afraid.
Cole: You aren't afraid. You won't fall.
Cassandra: Thank, you, Cole. I appreciate that.

[Sifr]

About the Wardens, it's worth remembering that in Legacy, it was established that Wardens can't get near him without him exerting some degree of influence over them and they forget what they've done after being removed from proximity, with Warden Mages are the most susceptible.

 

That's why they needed a non-Blighted Mage to seal him away, because whenever they tried it, the Wardens would attempt to free him instead. It's also the reason why Anders flipped out briefly when he got close to the prison and likely why Janeka was so determined to free him?

 

While I doubt that he was controlling them directly at Adamant, since Clarel was able to resist him and fight back, the False Calling probably helped to disorientate everyone just enough to allow him to manipulate the Wardens through indirect means, in order to try and eventually bring them all under his control like in the Dark Future?

 

As for the Mages joining the Venatori, I always figured it was probably blood magic?

 

I mean, are people really surprised that an evil cult of Tevinter Mages might use blood magic to influence people into joining them? People seem to think it's ludicrous to suggest that this was the reason, ignoring that we've already seen that Blood Magic can be used to coerce people before?

 

It's mentioned in Origins that Sophia Dryden had her mages use it to help recruit the Banns and Teryns during her failed rebellion against Arland? If the Wardens are willing to use it, why would it be out of character for Tevinter cultists?

 

Besides, if Dorian's father thought that if he could use Blood Magic to turn Dorian straight, I'm pretty sure it's far easier to mindscrew someone to follow an Evil Tevinter Magister Darkspawn with Lyrium growing out of his face, in his bid to take over the world by punching a hole into the Fade?

[MisterJB]

Because that was not the story Bioware wanted to tell. They could have written about Corypheus mind controllign Clarel and issuing order through her but having the Wardens be even sligthly influenced through magical means diminishes the human side of their mistakes.

Hence why Bioware emphasized the point that they were doing everything out of their own volition.

 

 

[Boomshakalakalakaboom]

Seems like you've ignored every piece of evidence that doesn't support your viewpoint. There have been plenty of threads regarding the subject and you constantly ignore evidence.

I'm starting to think you are trolling

*rolls eyes*

Why is it, that whenever someone has a opinion that others don't agree with, they are "trolling"?

Really, there is no set in stone answer to what happened to either faction, only tid-bits here and there.

[Sifr]

To be fair, JB, Corypheus getting Nightmare to put the whammy on them to hear the Calling, does still somewhat count as influencing them?

 

Scared people make absolutely poor decisions and the Wardens are quite rightly, completely and utterly terrified? The Wardens would likely have never gone agreed with it if they'd had a clear head, but unfortunately, they've got an earworm they cannot shake?

 

For a good example of this kinda thing, see how long can you listen to the Master's drumbeat from Doctor Who before it becomes extremely hard to think anymore? Now imagine if you had that on a constant looping repeat 24/7 for months?

[CosmicGnosis]

I refuse to believe that Fiona is an idiot. It would make absolutely no sense, based on everything she says and does outside of In Your Heart Shall Burn. She came to the Inquisition before Alexius used his time magic. She is shocked by Alexius' evolving terms of their agreement. She rejects his plan to remake the world for Corypheus. She is appalled by everything she learns during In Hushed Whispers. 

 

Some people are just determined to make the mages seem utterly irredeemable. 

[Deztyn]

Eh. We are talking about the same woman who thought the best time to break from the Chantry was when the public's mage approval rating was at an all-time low and the Chantry had a radically progressive Divine so committed to improving the lives of mages that she had just aided them in their violent escape from the White Spire and completely alienated the Templar Order on their behalf.

 

She then followed that up by losing the support of the one monarch in all of Thedas who was willing to risk the massive devastation that one might expect to occur when a country becomes the primary battleground of a war between mages and templars and offer her people sanctuary with seemingly no strings attached, because she thought that a handful of Tevinter mages would be more help against an imaginary Templar army.

 

The woman makes stupid choices.

 

Accept it and move on.