811 réponses à ce sujet

[Dean_the_Young]

So, clearly there's always an exception. 

 

Only for gingers.

 

 

(And Deztyn. Don't worry, Deztyn, I'll always be true! )

[CosmicGnosis]

I don't think my post sounded desperate at all. I just find it interesting that BioWare didn't let us judge Fiona. 

 

So why do you think they didn't let us judge her?

[Lady Artifice]

how two sides can be losing the war?

 

A third side. 

[Warden Commander Aeducan]

I do have a lovely voice and decent skill at mimicry so I can do that

I think you have those qualities, and you're smarter than Alistair.

[Boost32]

A third side. 

You are right
Still, no third side in that war.

[teh DRUMPf!!]

I don't think my post sounded desperate at all. I just find it interesting that BioWare didn't let us judge Fiona.

 

And yet, she was the big-bad the player had to fight if the mages were not recruited rather than Alexius.

 

Likeliest explanation for not getting to judge Fiona: they did not think of it.

[DuskWanderer]

Hang "desperation." 

 

There's evidence to support the blood magic manipulation theory. It might not be sufficient evidence for everyone, which is perfectly reasonable. What is perfectly unreasonable is to belittle everyone who subscribes to it as though it's indicative of some failing in common sense. 

 

The game leaves the matter ambiguous, so dripping condescension and passive aggressive jabs at each other out for interpreting it differently is unnecessary, and a little silly. 

 

Really? Where is there evidence that Fiona was being manipulated? I see the part where the Venatori infiltrated her ranks to get her to want to accept the deal with Alexius, but no where in the game do I see evidence of Fiona under blood magic. We see if you send the chargers evidence of some kind of ritual, but we have no idea what that ritual was (for all we know, it was related to Alexius's time magic)

 

I just want to see the evidence. 

[raging_monkey]

I think you have those qualities, and you're smarter than Alistair.

eh he's awkward and refuses leadership but he's pretty smart I think he's smarter I'm just conniving

[DuskWanderer]

And yet, she was the big-bad the player had to fight if the mages were not recruited rather than Alexius.

 

Likeliest explanation for not getting to judge Fiona: they did not think of it.

 

Even better explanation: Alexius was killed by Corypheus for his failure. Alexius had a specific task and didn't do it. Fiona had no specific task, she was just a warm body with magic to attack.

[Warden Commander Aeducan]

eh he's awkward and refuses leadership but he's pretty smart I think he's smarter I'm just conniving

I am not convinced he's that smart, I can understand that he's awkward, lack of confidence and refuses leadership, but I'm still not convinced he's smart nor clever, in my humble opinion. I still think you're smarter than him, Monkey. So...Monkey do you want to be Ferelden's king?  

[Lady Artifice]

Really? Where is there evidence that Fiona was being manipulated? I see the part where the Venatori infiltrated her ranks to get her to want to accept the deal with Alexius, but no where in the game do I see evidence of Fiona under blood magic. We see if you send the chargers evidence of some kind of ritual, but we have no idea what that ritual was (for all we know, it was related to Alexius's time magic)

 

I just want to see the evidence. 

 

I never said "in the game." I'm referring to the passage in the game guide that has been discussed to death in this thread. For some people, that passage is enough to believe in the involvement of blood magic. Other people require hard in game evidence. Neither approach is inherently "desperate" or illogical. 

 

Though people are often prejudiced one way or the other. 

[raging_monkey]

I am not convinced he's that smart, I can understand that he's awkward, lack of confidence and refuses leadership, but I'm still not convinced he's smart nor clever, in my humble opinion. I still think you're smarter than him, Monkey. So...Monkey do you want to be Ferelden's king?

I play the fool often so I see potential lol and I rather live in a cave and grow roses

[Warden Commander Aeducan]

I play the fool often so I see potential lol and I rather live in a cave and grow roses

I guess that's one way to see the potential lol, I can think of a more preferable place like a small town or something.

[raging_monkey]

I guess that's one way to see the potential lol, I can think of a more preferable place like a small town or something.

I prefer my loneliness that a cities/crowds unnerve me on good days

[Warden Commander Aeducan]

I prefer my loneliness that a cities/crowds unnerve me on good days

I couldn't stand chaotic environment/stressful life/traffic noise either, small town is perfect for me. Oh my, we are kinda off-topic aren't we?

[Archdemon_Urthemiel]

Why hasn't a dev confirmed something one way or another?

[Kakistos_]

The elements are from the various points of DAI. The analysis of the implications is my own.

Analysis and implications of your own? Oh, you mean baseless speculation.

 

The Mages having one major center of power is an explicit reflection of the remaining Rebel Mages being holed up in Redcliffe and nowhere else, while all other mage groups mentioned elsewhere are either razed Circles (such as Rivain) or neutral ones (the war table mission up north- Nevarra maybe?) and the lack of any other mage hold-out.

 

This is in contrast to the Templars presence, who demonstratably had a presence at the Hinterlands, at White Spire at Orlais, at Therinfell in Eastern Ferelden, at/near the netural Circle in northern Thedas, had already overrun the Circle in Rivain, outright dominated the city of Kirkwall for a time, and had the implicit support network to maintain so many wide-spread operations. The mages losing the war is conceeded by Fiona herself, who uses it to rationalize her decisions.

 

Ferelden providing support to the Mages is explicit in DAI. The Mage and Templar and Chantry senior 'serious' and relevant leaders being the ones at the Conclave is repeated multiple times. The Templars being stronger than the Mages is conceeded by Fiona herself, while Ferelden being stronger than the Templars is an assessment I make based on the relative strengths of a renegade army vs. a nation that controls and can reinforce the relevant key terrain.

That is incorrect. As another commenter pointed out, by the end of Asunder, the Mages have a stronghold in Andoral's Reach in Orlais. I'm sure if the thousands of Mages said to be defending there had lost we would have heard about it. It is after the conflict at that location that the Templars realized the Mages would not back down. There are Circle Towers all over Thedas, this is a multinational event and all of those Mages did not go to Redcliffe but the leadership. We know NOTHING about the conflicts and situations at a majority of the other Circle Towers and nations regarding this conflict. What we see is what happens with the leadership at Redcliffe.

 

The Templars in the Hinterlands were detractors, killing Apostates and innocents as they saw fit. They were no longer part of the whole. The Circles of Kirkwall and Dairsmuid were Annuled BEFORE the dissolution of the Circles. Before the major conflict started. The Mages also won the conflict at the White Spire, slaughtering most of the Templars and destroying the Phylacteries in the process before leaving.

 

 

Because the Templars could beat the mages in the field, but the mages had stopped fighting the field and were hiding behind a nation that the Templars wouldn't win handily against. Even if they succeeded at taking Redcliffe (a big 'if'), the Templars wouldn't be able to survive the Chantry and Ferelden uniting against them.

 

The Templars don't 'win' if they massacre every living mage- they 'win' if the current and future mages go back into Circles with acceptable (read- Templar) oversight. The Templars can't do that if they're run out of Ferelden for sacking Ferelden cities. Going to the Conclave might.

 

 

To make an analogy- you don't get wool by butchering your own sheep in another farmer's pasture.

The Templars and Seekers made it clear that their goal was to purge the Mages after they would not submit. This is why they left the Chantry; to deal with the Mages as they saw fit. Only after they realized that they couldn't did they agree to the Conclave.

 

 

Here's the thing though- those Circles did fall, with no major Circle Magi rebellion left in those areas, Bloody or not, the Templars clear cut won and the mages fled- just as the mages fled the other towers, including the Ferelden circle. The Circles that weren't Annulled or didn't declare neutrality aren't hold-outs for the Rebel mages, they were abandoned.

 

Redcliffe is described as the refuge of the remaining rebel mages, and it is where the last major mage leader outright conceeds that she was losing the war so bad that slavery and exile in Tevinter was deemed the best survival option. It is never described as one of many magi bastions, no other rebel bastions are ever raised or suggested, and Fiona's own discussion and actions are wildly inconsistent with the magi being anything apporaching a near-peer force to the Templar forces.

Yes, those two Circles fell. Well before open conflict. I didn't expect them to win. The Templars are trained just for that not to mention that the mages, utterly trapped inside the tower have no escape, no supplies and cannot expect outside help unlike the Templars. The Towers are designed to keep Mages in and when the Templars so choose: a death trap. Even still with all of those advantages the Templars suffered heavy losses and in Kirkwall many Mages escape. The Annulment of these two Towers have no more bearing on the conflict in Inquisition than an Annulment 100 years ago.

 

 

The reason the war could go on for years with no clear victor was because the mages had stopped fighting it and were hiding in Redcliffe, and the Templars weren't attacking. Calling the Hinterlands a war by the post-Conclave (which the cast does) is a bit of a joke, because the only two forces still engaging eachother were Renegade Templars without support and fanatical mage supremacists hiding in caves right outside the protected city.

 

Again, Redcliffe was not the Mages only holdout. There were other areas all over Thedas in which the Templars failed to advance. Hence the standstill and Conclave.
 

 

 

What did you not understand? The templars were winning the war, Fiona said so, but the mages made a deal with Ferelden. There was no way to the templars win the war, they couldnt invade Redcliff, not only they would be repelem but they would start a war against Ferelden, whats so hard to understand?
Go and talk to Fiona, she will say "we were losing the war", how two sides can be losing the war?

I don't understand your logic. You can't be not winning and winning at the same time.

[raging_monkey]

I couldn't stand chaotic environment/stressful life/traffic noise either, small town is perfect for me. Oh my, we are kinda off-topic aren't we?

been off topic

[Sunnie]

Why hasn't a dev confirmed something one way or another?

[Craldur]

I couldn't stand chaotic environment/stressful life/traffic noise either, small town is perfect for me. Oh my, we are kinda off-topic aren't we?

im the same... i also get side tracked easily... whether thats brain damage or my add i cant tell. I dont remember much from before my accident... which was followed by 4 consecutive strokes.

[raging_monkey]

Damn sounds rough

[Warden Commander Aeducan]

im the same... i also get side tracked easily... whether thats brain damage or my add i cant tell. I dont remember much from before my accident... which was followed by 4 consecutive strokes.

I just prefer the peace and quiet, but ouch that sounds rough. 

[Lady Artifice]

Why hasn't a dev confirmed something one way or another?

 

They don't like to be called on to resolve our online debates. 

 

This issue in particular was written to be a little ambiguous. They like to allow us our contention and our headcanon, on occasion. The DA team has routinely encouraged alternate character interpretation. Just look at Loghain and Solas' comments about the battle of Ostagar. 

[Boost32]

I don't understand your logic. You can't be not winning and winning at the same time.

They were winning until the mages got sanctuary in Redcliff, then they couldnt finish the mage rebellion because it would mean to start a war against Ferelden, then the war became a stalement, no side could win anymore. If the mages were in equal foot, then Fiona wouldnt say they were losing the war against the templars.
And the templars werent sent to the Conclave to negotiate peace. Envy had already take the place of Lord Seeker at the time, why he would sent a delegariam to negotiate peace? Its clear the templars who were sent, were the moderates ones who wouldnt agree with the red lyrium, they were sent there to die. Even if the Breach was a accident, I doubt Corypheus would let anyone leave the Conclave alive.

[TK514]

Analysis and implications of your own? Oh, you mean baseless speculation.

It might be useful for you to learn the definition of 'baseless' before trying to use it in a sentence.