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Fiona clearly hates Alexius' plan during In Hushed Whispers...


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#676
AresKeith

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She didn't have to accept the help of the Venatori you realize so she is at fault for bringing them in.

 

I do think she was brainwashed though by the time Haven happens, along with the rest of the rebel mages that weren't killed or didn't get away.  The war table mission after Haven showed that if I recall.

 

I personally just wished that the mages had their own version of Ser Barris that could take over the mages in place of Fiona.

 

Mission wise I would say the equivalence of Barris would be Felix, but we know how he turns out

 

But yea I wish there was a Barris version in the mage side


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#677
Boost32

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She didn't have to accept the help of the Venatori you realize so she is at fault for bringing them in.

 

I do think she was brainwashed though by the time Haven happens, along with the rest of the rebel mages that weren't killed or didn't get away.  The war table mission after Haven showed that if I recall.

 

I personally just wished that the mages had their own version of Ser Barris that could take over the mages in place of Fiona.

It didnt, the war table says the tevinter mages were doing some kind of ritual. No rebel mages is mentioned in the ritual and no one knows what kind of ritual it was.



#678
Sifr

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If nothing else she is their leader and committed treason. That alone gets a person jail time. 

 

How is wanting to join the Imperium treason?

 

The Circles aren't loyal to any one nation if we're talking about in that sense, since the Mages are from numerous nations across Thedas. Even Vivienne considers her place of birth as irrelevant because she's in the Circle, her loyalty is the insitution itself not any nation?

 

If we're talking "treason" against the Orlesian Chantry, then I'd have to disagree, since they were the ones who imprisoned them in the Circles for all those years and aren't doing anything to prevent the Templars from hunting them down now they're at war... they hardly owe them anything either?

 

The rebellion may have been a long time coming but she was the one pushing for it at the absolute worst time since she claims they were losing

 

I also hold her accountable for selling the mages into slavery and bring Alexius into Redcliffe despite the fact that they were already being protected 

 

Except that she didn't sell them into slavery, she negotiated for citizenship and she got it. The ten years service in exchange was an unfortunate caveat, but they would still have been citizens, even if indentured.

 

No, they were sabotaged because it was purposefully done to them by one of their own. It was not the unforeseen result of some random or innocent action. It's really not hard to understand.

 

It was an unforeseen event for the Templars note in the loop, who really should have been on the look for such things, even among their own, if they really as good as they say. That alone makes it something they failed to anticipate and forsee.
 

It's hardly the same thing given it's an epilogue in which you have no participation unlike the Lucius confrontation. And, unless you have the means to deliberately meta-game it as either a result of more than one playthrough or using guides you don't know at the time you're punishing Fiona with your other non-Fiona related choices.

 

Which I'll concede, should have been something that we were given player agency in. I wouldn't object to having been able to judge her, as while I'd personally not excecute, tranquil or lock her away, I would have enjoyed being able to call her out.
 

There's a fair bit of difference between a barely controlled poltergeist giving off bad vibes and notoriously elusive and rare demon whose entire thing is revolves around perfectly stealing other people's identities.

 

So Lucius Corin being an unstable, egotistical nut who goes around puniching clerics was "normal" behaviour that no-one questioned... okay, I did meet the real McCoy and he was off his rocker, but you really have to question how a man like that was put in charge or why he wasn't replaced?
 
How hard up were the Templars and the Seekers for people to replace Lambert?
 
(Actually, Lambert, Meredith and Corin makes me question their recruiting policies...)

How so? There was nothing figurative or exaggerated or metaphorical about the templars inability to detect envy before it revealed itself. They had no means of doing so.

 

Literally means exactly what it says on the tin, saying that they have no ability to detect him isn't exactly true since they are trained to be extremely observant about demons, their traits, habits and any activity that might be related to them?

 

Even if Envy is a difficult one to detect, they didn't exactly win any gold stars here. Even if we assume that he picked off the ones who could have sense something off about him early on, that the rest were so easily duped is extremely suspect?

 

Although I suppose that it could be explained if he took to locking himself away for long periods of time. Barris mentions he became reclusive and his office looks like he spent a lot of time in it, so perhaps he wasn't around the Templars in person long enough for them to notice any of the warning signs?


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#679
AresKeith

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Except that she didn't sell them into slavery, she negotiated for citizenship and she got it. The ten years service in exchange was an unfortunate caveat, but they would still have been citizens, even if indentured.

 

Which anyone would've saw coming because Tevinter would make anybody slaves



#680
Drasanil

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It was an unforeseen event for the Templars note in the loop, who really should have been on the look for such things, even among their own, if they really as good as they say. That alone makes it something they failed to anticipate and forsee.

 

Incidents of non-mage possession are very rare, add to that the templars are taught Seekers are incorruptible and cannot be possessed by demons.

 

So short of having the gift of prophecy or the most extreme case of crippling paranoia imaginable. Explain how they could reasonably be expected to be on the look out for such things as the incorruptible Lord Seeker purposefully allowing one of the rarest most elusive type of demon known to impersonate him?

 

Oh wait you can't. This is just a ridiculous attempt to distract from Fiona's own incompetence. 

 

So Lucius Corin being an unstable, egotistical nut who goes around puniching clerics was "normal" behaviour that no-one questioned... okay, I did meet the real McCoy and he was off his rocker, but you really have to question how a man like that was put in charge or why he wasn't replaced?

 
How hard up were the Templars and the Seekers for people to replace Lambert?
 
(Actually, Lambert, Meredith and Corin makes me question their recruiting policies...)

 

 

Literally means exactly what it says on the tin, saying that they have no ability to detect him isn't exactly true since they are trained to be extremely observant about demons, their traits, habits and any activity that might be related to them?

 

Even if Envy is a difficult one to detect, they didn't exactly win any gold stars here. Even if we assume that he picked off the ones who could have sense something off about him early on, that the rest were so easily duped is extremely suspect?

 

Although I suppose that it could be explained if he took to locking himself away for long periods of time. Barris mentions he became reclusive and his office looks like he spent a lot of time in it, so perhaps he wasn't around the Templars in person long enough for them to notice any of the warning signs?

 

Only the most senior templars can detect Envy demons, there were none of these senior templars left. They literally had no means of detecting it. Simple no? Isn't great when things are exactly what it says on the tin? 

 

As for the specifics of Lucius' behaviour change. That could be chalked up to any number of things such as stress, the Chantry's betrayal, fanaticism or fact the sky exploded itself a new anus. What remains however, is that until "Lucius" played his hand and revealed he was Envy they had no means of detecting that was what he was. 

 



#681
Cobra's_back

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How is wanting to join the Imperium treason?

 

The Circles aren't loyal to any one nation if we're talking about in that sense, since the Mages are from numerous nations across Thedas. Even Vivienne considers her place of birth as irrelevant because she's in the Circle, her loyalty is the insitution itself not any nation?

 

If we're talking "treason" against the Orlesian Chantry, then I'd have to disagree, since they were the ones who imprisoned them in the Circles for all those years and aren't doing anything to prevent the Templars from hunting them down now they're at war... they hardly owe them anything either?

 

 

Except that she didn't sell them into slavery, she negotiated for citizenship and she got it. The ten years service in exchange was an unfortunate caveat, but they would still have been citizens, even if indentured.

 

 
Okay wasn't she offered safe harbor in Ferelden? She was no longer in the circle? The crime she committed is against the King/Queen of Ferelden and the Arl of Redcliffe.
 
She brought in a Tevinter Magister who took over the Arl's land and people. That could easily be grounds for troops coming in. She had allied herself with a Tevinter who took lands by force.
 
Even if she didn't become a citizen of Ferelden, she is there under their laws. 
 
Technically, she sold the mages into slavery when she aligned herself with Tevinter. She is living in Ferelden. We know Ferelden doesn't support slavery. The mages were never tevinter citizens, and were never slaves. She had no right to sell them.
 
Foreigners can't decide which laws they intend to follow.
 
She negotiated for citizenship and she got it.
 
No she didn't. She helped Tevinter take over a part of Ferelden and turned it into a slaver location.

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#682
Deztyn

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Actually, I would have loved to see her with her son. Sadly, her actions in this game stopped me from supporting her. If anything, I wanted to support her but couldn't. Couldn't give her a free pass. If they would have let me send her to prison, I would have saved the mages.

 

Well we do see her with her son...

 

...when he boots her out of Ferelden for making friends with enemies of his nation who seized his childhood home and kicked out everyone who lived there.

 

Seriously, am I the only one who felt nothing but irritation when Fiona asks about him? I wanted the option to smack her.

 

"How happy do you think he is?"

*Smack*

 

Someone needs to mod that in. :devil:


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#683
CosmicGnosis

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See, I thought that one of the major reasons, among several others that have been discussed to death, that Fiona decided to leave for Tevinter was because it would finally end the war. If the mages leave southern Thedas, a region of the world that fears and hates mages, then the templars would not be "obligated" to hunt them down, and peace would be restored. 

 

And it turns out that Arl Gallagher Wulff had thought the same thing. What went wrong, though, was that Fiona was not contacted by mainstream Tevinter, but rather the Venatori, and the Venatori had no intention of honoring any promises made to her. So I think that Fiona agreed to leave Ferelden for Tevinter in order to finally end the war, and invited Alexius and friends into Redcliffe to seal the deal. And then the Venatori suddenly oust Teagan and start running Redcliffe themselves. Fiona and the mages can't leave without risking retribution from the Venatori, and even if they did manage to flee, where would they go? The templars would surely find them. So yeah, Fiona made a catastrophic mistake, but she was lied to, and I sympathize with her intentions, in the way I understand them at least. 

 

And then Alexius' time magic experiments fail, and Corypheus kills him, "stuff happens", and then Fiona and the mages fight the Inquisition.


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#684
Cobra's_back

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Well we do see her with her son...

 

...when he boots her out of Ferelden for making friends with enemies of his nation who seized his childhood home and kicked out everyone who lived there.

 

Seriously, am I the only one who felt nothing but irritation when Fiona asks about him? I wanted the option to smack her.

 

"How happy do you think he is?"

*Smack*

 

Someone needs to mod that in. :devil:

 

 

I totally agree. I would love to see that. Talk about Mommy Dearest.



#685
Sifr

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Incidents of non-mage possession are very rare, add to that the templars are taught Seekers are incorruptible and cannot be possessed by demons.

 

So short of having the gift of prophecy or the most extreme case of crippling paranoia imaginable. Explain how they could reasonably be expected to be on the look out for such things as the incorruptible Lord Seeker purposefully allowing one of the rarest most elusive type of demon known to impersonate him?

 

Oh wait you can't. This is just a ridiculous attempt to distract from Fiona's own incompetence.

 

Only the most senior templars can detect Envy demons, there were none of these senior templars left. They literally had no means of detecting it. Simple no? Isn't great when things are exactly what it says on the tin? 

 

As for the specifics of Lucius' behaviour change. That could be chalked up to any number of things such as stress, the Chantry's betrayal, fanaticism or fact the sky exploded itself a new anus. What remains however, is that until "Lucius" played his hand and revealed he was Envy they had no means of detecting that was what he was

 

Non-Mages can be possessed just as easily as mages, it's just that they are rarely ever sought after as hosts.

 

Furthermore, while the Seekers are supposedly "incorruptable", it was also said that Tranquility was irreversible with just as much certainty... so that the Templars know that to be false (even if they don't know the specifics of the actual cure) might mean that a lot of old notions are now in doubt?

 

That the Templars often seem to be the most paranoid people in Thedas has never stopped them before of accusing mages and even their fellow Templars of consorting with demons before? In DA2, we saw Cullen was smart enough to recognise that Wilmod was possessed and trick him into revealing himself, showing that such an eventuality was on his mind, while when Hawke can accuse Ser Conrad of consorting with "The Great Demon", even this obvious lie is treated as serious enough warrant some kind of investigation.

 

As for the Senior members being able to detect it, I'm calling bull, you don't get better at detecting them just because you're higher up in the food chain. The Senior Templars might have more experience, but they are all trained from the same manual.

 

We see that when the recruits and lower ranks realise they're dealing with an Envy Demon they are able to immediately lock down on it's weakness. They might not have a detector, but all of them are trained to be able to detect them... and that they didn't was an unfortunately oversight on their part, but an oversight nonetheless.

 

Slightly off-point, but now you raised it, if we're talking about stress, the Chantry's betrayal, fanatics in the ranks and the sky exploding itself a new backside as an excuse for certain character flaws, doesn't that equally apply to Fiona and show that her "incompetence" is really just because she's overworked and dealing with way too much on her plate?

 

 

Okay wasn't she offered safe harbor in Ferelden? She was no longer in the circle? The crime she committed is against the King/Queen of Ferelden and the Arl of Redcliffe.
 
She brought in a Tevinter Magister who took over the Arl's land and people. That could easily be grounds for troops coming in. She had allied herself with a Tevinter who took lands by force.
 
Even if she didn't become a citizen of Ferelden, she is there under their laws. 
 
Technically, she sold the mages into slavery when she aligned herself with Tevinter. She is living in Ferelden. We know Ferelden doesn't support slavery. The mages were never tevinter citizens, and were never slaves. She had no right to sell them.
 
Foreigners can't decide which laws they intend to follow.
 
She negotiated for citizenship and she got it.
 
No she didn't. She helped Tevinter take over a part of Ferelden and turned it into a slaver location.

 

Fiona wanted to get the rebellion out of Ferelden to stop encroaching on Ferelden's hospitality, the notion that she allied with Alexius to turn Redcliffe into "Little Tevinter" and a slaving operation is insane? The Venatori seized control of Redcliffe out from under her and it's implied that was when the Arl got kicked out as well, as a result of Alexius taking command. The Mages were just caught in the middle of coup detat, they didn't betray Ferelden in any way, shape or form?

 

Even Alexius states that the deal was for full citizenship as members of the Imperium, not enslavement. He explains quite clearly that while the terms of the deal did require ten years of service, they were citizens of the Imperium, who'd gain full citizenship upon the expiration of the contract.

 

(This is also why Josephine says we cannot march on Redcliffe in force, as politically we're seen as an "Orlesian" Chantry organisation, with our operation in Ferelden already being difficult without marching on one of their villages, to combat Tevinters and newly created citizens of the Imperium. Hence the line about how Alexius has outplayed us.)

 

Forgive me, but that's not selling them into slavery, that's negotiating for her people to gain political asylum in a foreign power that would accept them, rather than rely on the luke-warm hospitality of a nation that might decide not to protect them if the Templars or Chantry put enough pressure on them?

 

If seeking asylum or wanting to leave a country is that bad, then expats and immigrants should be hung, drawn and quartered for "treason" as well, right?

 

Or would we really say that people who are gay and come from conservative nations that where homosexuality is illegal and punishable by death, should remain in their native land and be killed, rather than commit "treason" by seeking refuge in countries that would allow them to live freely with full rights?

 

Because it's no different from the situation and dilemma the mages are facing in Thedas at this point.

 

Furthermore is the deal any different from what we do in our world? Seems to me no different from giving someone a work visa and making them "serve" the foreign country they're staying in for the duration of that term... and eventually allowing them to apply for citizenship as a reward?


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#686
TK514

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Non-Mages can be possessed just as easily as mages, it's just that they are rarely ever sought after as hosts.
 
Furthermore, while the Seekers are supposedly "incorruptable", it was also said that Tranquility was irreversible with just as much certainty... so that the Templars know that to be false (even if they don't know the specifics of the actual cure) might mean that a lot of old notions are now in doubt?

 
If we discover a cure for lung cancer, should we assume then that we have a way to breathe underwater? That' the kind of absurd connection you'd be asking people to make.

 

Fiona wanted to get the rebellion out of Ferelden to stop encroaching on Ferelden's hospitality, the notion that she allied with Alexius to turn Redcliffe into "Little Tevinter" and a slaving operation is insane? The Venatori seized control of Redcliffe out from under her and it's implied that was when the Arl got kicked out as well, as a result of Alexius taking command. The Mages were just caught in the middle of coup detat, they didn't betray Ferelden in any way, shape or form?


The monarchy of Ferelden and the Arl of Redcliffe (who would be in a position to know exactly what happened) disagree. The former exiles the mages for their actions, and the latter demands payment from the Inquisition for what the mages did.
 
 

Furthermore is the deal any different from what we do in our world? Seems to me no different from giving someone a work visa and making them "serve" the foreign country they're staying in for the duration of that term... and eventually allowing them to apply for citizenship as a reward?


I'm pretty sure inviting foreign troops into the town you're living in and allowing them to evict the local government and take over so they can offer you a work visa would be grounds for treason charges anywhere you care to think of.
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#687
Sifr

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If we discover a cure for lung cancer, should we assume then that we have a way to breathe underwater? That' the kind of absurd connection you'd be asking people to make.

 

My point was that the dogma that the Chantry has been spouting for a hundred years about the Tranquil has been proven to be incorrect, so what about the other dogma like that regarding the Seekers and their being unable to be possessed? Even if Seekers still are incorruptable, shouldn't that notion at least be questioned in light of some of the other "truths" that they've been operating under?

 

Incidentally, are they full abominations and retain the Spirit of Faith afterwards, or simply are touched by the Spirit that then departs back into the Fade? The game never makes entirely clear whether or not they're in the same league as Wynne and some of the Avvar or not? If the former, then no, they can't be possessed because they already are, if the latter, then they could still be possessed.

The monarchy of Ferelden and the Arl of Redcliffe (who would be in a position to know exactly what happened) disagree. The former exiles the mages for their actions, and the latter demands payment from the Inquisition for what the mages did.

 

The monarchy and Arl Teagan are furious, that's all we know for certain, Anora and Alistair's tone make that fact abundantly clear.

 

Anora and Alistair are furious that their goodwill ended being an unmitigated disaster for them and definitely would have hurt them politically, both in foreign quarters and domestic since no-one outside Ferelden or within the bannorn are going to let them forget this anytime soon.

 

Teagan meanwhile is probably peeved that his own goodwill to offer his town as refuge ended with him getting thrown out and needing to go to Denerim to get the crown to step in, a major embarrassment for someone with the amount of prestige he holds in the bannorn.

 

Teagan's list of reparations is actually quite reasonable, since it amounts to simply fixing property damage caused by magic in Redcliffe, rather than suing the Inquisition and making them pay through the nose for his own grievances which honestly, if he had done, I'd not blame him for wanting to do?

 

To me, it looks they're looking for someone to blame. They can't punish Alexius or the Venatori (we judge the former and kill the rest) for their crimes, but they can take it out on the Mage Rebellion, regardless of the level of complicity or involvment in any of the actual grievances that they have against them.

 

I'm pretty sure inviting foreign troops into the town you're living in and allowing them to evict the local government and take over so they can offer you a work visa would be grounds for treason charges anywhere you care to think of.

 

C'mon, you don't really believe that the Rebellion invited them knowing they'd take over the town? Seriously, what would allowing the Venatori to take over Redcliffe really gain them, other than bring the wrath of everyone in Ferelden down upon their heads?

 

Even if you do think Fiona is the biggest dunce in Thedas, no-one is that stupid. They might be desperate, but they're not that desperate.

 

We have no evidence that the Mages were the ones to oust Teagan or conspired to aid the Venatori to do so. That Alexius holds all the cards, would suggest that he was the one to orchestrate the entire affair along with the Venatori. When Alistair or Anora bring the subject up about the coup, Fiona starts to try to explain what happened, but they cut her off, clearly not in the mood to talk.


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#688
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Even if you do think Fiona is the biggest dunce in Thedas, no-one is that stupid. They might be desperate, but they're not that desperate.

 

While I'm not as optimistic as to say no one is that stupid we have to remember that we are talking about characters, not people. And sometimes if something is not that well written a character can act out of character and be that stupid because the plot (in this case the venatori taking over a familiar location of DA:O) demands it.

 

And it's not only that Fiona makes bad decisions, if you go to the mages side she never has to face consecuences for her actions and if you talk to her she's even smug about her position. Is it really that hard to understand that this is what pisses people off?

 

If you take a good look I'd say that Fiona as a character has been dying for a long time, she's become the Mage Rebellion's plot device. Mages need to rebel? The awesome ex warden will lead you. You need to take shelter somewhere? Let's take shelter in Ferelden, if something goes wrong she could always reveal that she's possibly the King's mom. Bioware needs a plot about Venatori infiltrators? Let's make Fiona make a deal with them, even if it doesn't make sense with her past as a slave.


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#689
Cobra's_back

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Non-Mages can be possessed just as easily as mages, it's just that they are rarely ever sought after as hosts.

 

Furthermore, while the Seekers are supposedly "incorruptable", it was also said that Tranquility was irreversible with just as much certainty... so that the Templars know that to be false (even if they don't know the specifics of the actual cure) might mean that a lot of old notions are now in doubt?

 

Fiona wanted to get the rebellion out of Ferelden to stop encroaching on Ferelden's hospitality, the notion that she allied with Alexius to turn Redcliffe into "Little Tevinter" and a slaving operation is insane? The Venatori seized control of Redcliffe out from under her and it's implied that was when the Arl got kicked out as well, as a result of Alexius taking command. The Mages were just caught in the middle of coup detat, they didn't betray Ferelden in any way, shape or form?

 

Even Alexius states that the deal was for full citizenship as members of the Imperium, not enslavement. He explains quite clearly that while the terms of the deal did require ten years of service, they were citizens of the Imperium, who'd gain full citizenship upon the expiration of the contract.

 

(This is also why Josephine says we cannot march on Redcliffe in force, as politically we're seen as an "Orlesian" Chantry organisation, with our operation in Ferelden already being difficult without marching on one of their villages, to combat Tevinters and newly created citizens of the Imperium. Hence the line about how Alexius has outplayed us.)

 

Forgive me, but that's not selling them into slavery, that's negotiating for her people to gain political asylum in a foreign power that would accept them, rather than rely on the luke-warm hospitality of a nation that might decide not to protect them if the Templars or Chantry put enough pressure on them?

 

If seeking asylum or wanting to leave a country is that bad, then expats and immigrants should be hung, drawn and quartered for "treason" as well, right?

 

Or would we really say that people who are gay and come from conservative nations that where homosexuality is illegal and punishable by death, should remain in their native land and be killed, rather than commit "treason" by seeking refuge in countries that would allow them to live freely with full rights?

 

Because it's no different from the situation and dilemma the mages are facing in Thedas at this point.

 

Furthermore is the deal any different from what we do in our world? Seems to me no different from giving someone a work visa and making them "serve" the foreign country they're staying in for the duration of that term... and eventually allowing them to apply for citizenship as a reward?

 

 

Here is exactly what we say:

 

Some people are given political protection and she was. The part where she screwed up is making a contract with a slaver state. It is reasonable to assume Tevinter would make these people slaves. So if you give someone safe harbor you expect them to follow laws in Ferelden and not the laws of a foreign nation.

 

Second, no matter how you put it, these mages were never considered slaves before. Again, none were citizens of Tevinter which is very important. She doesn't own them. If she did this in Ferelden, she broke the laws in Ferelden.

 

Finally, She broke the law per your example whether she knew what was going to happen in Redcliffe or not. I don't think she wanted Tevinter to take over Redcliffe, but she was still guilty because she stayed their ALLY. 

 

Does she get a pass if she is an ally of a criminal operation, and does nothing to stop it? The answer is no.

 

Your comment:  "Furthermore is the deal any different from what we do in our world? Seems to me no different from giving someone a work visa and making them "serve" the foreign country they're staying in for the duration of that term... and eventually allowing them to apply for citizenship as a reward?"

 

 

OMG NO!  If you sell someone into slavery for 10 years inside a nation that is considered free, it is against the laws in that nation. Two things make this clear:

 

None of the mages were from Tevinter. The contract occurred on Ferelden soil. Not all the mages agreed to it. Some were killed and some ran away.

 

 

Your comment: "Even Alexius states that the deal was for full citizenship as members of the Imperium, not enslavement. He explains quite clearly that while the terms of the deal did require ten years of service, they were citizens of the Imperium, who'd gain full citizenship upon the expiration of the contract."

 

Of course he feels this way. Slavery is part of their culture. Slavery is against the law in Ferelden.

 

Question for you: Should we let someone take poor 12 year old orphans from the USA to marry them off in a third world country that allows this? They promise to be good to them. There are many different cultures out there, and none of them see themselves as wrong.

 

 

Your comment:"(This is also why Josephine says we cannot march on Redcliffe in force, as politically we're seen as an "Orlesian" Chantry organisation, with our operation in Ferelden already being difficult without marching on one of their villages, to combat Tevinters and newly created citizens of the Imperium. Hence the line about how Alexius has outplayed us.)"

 

 

Answer:

 

But Ferelden CAN. We are not the law in Ferelden. The King and Queen kicked them out, required payment and could have charged those who committed murder. We just killed those people before they got there.

 

 

 

All nations have their own laws and a person doesn't have the right to disregard them.



#690
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We have no evidence that the Mages were the ones to oust Teagan or conspired to aid the Venatori to do so. That Alexius holds all the cards, would suggest that he was the one to orchestrate the entire affair along with the Venatori. When Alistair or Anora bring the subject up about the coup, Fiona starts to try to explain what happened, but they cut her off, clearly not in the mood to talk.

 

 

The problem is this:

 

Laws are written in such a way that if Fiona found herself allied with a criminal, she would be required to get help or fight against them. You can't watch a crime and do nothing.

 

You are correct it wasn't our job to step in. It was the King/Queen of Ferelden who should have stepped in. I wonder how this would have played out if Alistair had to battle them to get Redcliffe back.



#691
Dean_the_Young

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inherently nothing just a pattern follows witcher fans pee a w in the snow and promote their series while da fans pee D in the snow and then a fight breaks out simple circle

 

Or it might be because the Witcher has what was probably one of the more practical demonstration on what the Mage-Templar War was probably like in practice.

 

Talk about a Witch Hunt.



#692
Boost32

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Or it might be because the Witcher has what was probably one of the more practical demonstration on what the Mage-Templar War was probably like in practice.
 
Talk about a Witch Hunt.

If the templars were like the Church of Eternal Flame and the mages had Triss as their leader, I always would side with the mages.

#693
thats1evildude

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Page 78 of WoT, in the chapter on Tevinter:

 

Freed slaves are still not considered citizens. They are instead known as the Liberati, a subclass with limited rights. Liberati can join the Circle of Magi or serve as an apprentice in a trade. Liberati may also own property, but they cannot join the military and rarely have a say in governance.


  • Cobra's_back et teh DRUMPf!! aiment ceci

#694
Steelcan

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Or it might be because the Witcher has what was probably one of the more practical demonstration on what the Mage-Templar War was probably like in practice.

 

Talk about a Witch Hunt.

RIP Keira Metz

 

SUPER NSFW

Spoiler



#695
thesuperdarkone2

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So nice to see templar supporters ruin another thread. Congratulations on likely making the OP hate templar supporters.



#696
Steelcan

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So nice to see templar supporters ruin another thread. Congratulations on likely making the OP hate templar supporters.

he said without a trace of irony


  • Drasanil, TK514, Deztyn et 5 autres aiment ceci

#697
AresKeith

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So nice to see templar supporters ruin another thread. Congratulations on likely making the OP hate templar supporters.

 

So nice to see you make generalizing statements like always


  • The Hierophant et Grieving Natashina aiment ceci

#698
Warden Commander Aeducan

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So nice to see templar supporters ruin another thread. Congratulations on likely making the OP hate templar supporters.

6cwz4ll.gif

 

This is coming from the guy who calls people from the opposite group a paranoid fools, and constantly trying to sabotage Gaspard's support thread.


  • Drasanil, The Hierophant, teh DRUMPf!! et 1 autre aiment ceci

#699
raging_monkey

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I'm not the biggest Templar supporter but our side does Just as much damage don't Just blame them blame yourself too
  • Deztyn aime ceci

#700
thesuperdarkone2

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I'm not the biggest Templar supporter but our side does Just as much damage don't Just blame them blame yourself too

You say this but this thread clearly shows otherwise. The OP asked a question and when he dared suggest otherwise, the templar supporters began to insult and act consdescending towards the OP. Also, last I remember, mage supporters didn't insult and dismiss users for their grammar and punctuation.