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[Dean_the_Young]

Yeah.

 

I love the idea of Viv as Divine.

 

I like what she does in the epilogue.

 

I just can't imagine playing a character that would both approve of her politics and be willing to help set that precedent.

 

*ahem*

 

Dear, why must you doubt me so?

[MisterJB]

In Rome, military superiority was considered important to have a hand in politics. There are many tales of Senators ripping off their clothes to expose their war scars. 

 

What prevented them from just giving themselves scars?
Other than infections and stuff?
 

[Steelcan]

What prevented them from just giving themselves scars?
Other than infections and stuff?
 

most people shy away from giving themselves massive battle scars

[Deztyn]

*ahem*

 

Dear, why must you doubt me so?

 

Hmmm...

 

Maybe my next Inquisitor can be a Dean.   

 

*Ponders*

[Lady Artifice]

I know Viv is a good a candidate as any, it's just the mage sitting on the throne that is a little...odd for me. I know that I would more than likely have no issue with the policies she would set, but in the grand scheme, I don't know if Thedas is ready for a mage to be in such a freaking high level position.

 

That's the entire appeal for me. 

 

I don't care much for her policies, outside of putting mages into the chantry. It's the narrative concept of there being a mage in that position, arguably the highest position, that has me so intrigued. Truthfully, I'm still all resentful about not being able to push Gisele forward. She's the only qualified person with political vision, diplomatic skill, and compassion all in one package. When Cassandra and Leliana were arguing about what to do next, and Vivienne was probably cringing about trudging through the snow in her silk knickers, Gisele stood up and did it. She set out to make people hopeful and motivated and succeeded.

 

But instead we have to pick between these three, and they all have their pros and cons. But Vivienne is the only one that sets such a radical precedent. She might be assassinated or displaced, and everything she does might be undone, but Thedasian history is going to remember a mage as Divine. I don't care to much whether Thedas is ready for it, because I don't think it's ever going to be ready for it. The reason I can believe that it can happen after the events of Inquisition is because of the events of Inquisition. The chantry is desperate, reeling, politically vulnerable. The reason I believe it can be Vivienne is because she's the one who took the role of magic court jester and made it politically relevant. I think it's now or never, and I think it's her or no one. 

 

::shrug:: But I do understand, it's hard to swallow that it could ever happen. I think the whole arc is a little absurd, I'm just trying to make the most of it. 

 

 

In Rome, military superiority was considered important to have a hand in politics. There are many tales of Senators ripping off their clothes to expose their war scars. 

 

 

Well, I don't know what the more idiotic aspects of ancient Roman politics has to do with Thedas, but I like the idea of candidates for Divine ripping their clothes off to expose war scars. That should become a thing. 

[Drasanil]

I just can't imagine playing a character that would both approve of her politics and be willing to help set that precedent.

 

Dude this is so easy, I mean really people have been doing it since the dawn of forever. "She's one of the good ones!" not to mention "She's a credit to her [mage] race!"

 

Armed with those mighty words even the most bias Inquisitor can justify putting Vivienne anywhere they fancy, including on sunburst throne

[EmperorSahlertz]

What prevented them from just giving themselves scars?
Other than infections and stuff?

You can easily tell the difference beetween a selfinflicted scar, and one earned in battle.

[Grieving Natashina]

Well, I don't know what the more idiotic aspects of ancient Roman politics has to do with Thedas, but I like the idea of candidates for Divine ripping their clothes off to expose war scars. That should become a thing. 

I could fully support this idea.  

[Kakistos_]

Yes, but that means the arrangement was made in complete ignorance in regards to how Tevinter actually works. Not a very good idea when you're cutting a deal for 10 years of indentured servitude.

How so? Do you know some detail on Tevinter law that either Fiona or any of the intelligent and well studied Mages in Redcliffe that actually live in that fictional world didn't know?

 

Unless Alexius teleported himself and all his forces inside Redcliff's walls, someone had to open the gate for him.

Given that Fiona was the sole beneficiary of his presence there, I'd say she is suspect number one.

 

 

 

I could point out a ton of other reasons why they were in that situation but there is no need since I wasn't even throwing stones.

Merely pointing out the fact that the odds of a Magister respecting the authority of a normal person without a blade at his throat are infinitesimal. Hence, why anyone would have been able to predict Teagan would have been housted and Redcliff ocuppied.

Redcliffe is not surrounded by 50 feet walls. Alexius could have sailed in on a ship. Also the Inquisitor just walked through the gate, why couldn't Alexius? The gate keeper, if that is even a thing, probably doesn't know every powerful person in Thedas by their face. You frame this point as if Fiona herself was just sitting on the wall, waiting just in case a Magister happened by. And for a Mage that can manipulate Time, getting through a gate wouldn't be much trouble.

 

For starters, yes, Tevinter by all showings is bad. They have a history of being "bad" and the last thing you should do is give them sovereign territory of another nation. Second, how is inviting a foreign power to take over an arldom the most peaceful way to do anything besides start an Exalted March? You know, just like the one a very similar scenario actually started. Ferelden already gave them a better deal, especially considering going to Tevinter would only provoke the rest of Thedas to turn against them, just like everyone else actually in world thinks. The Templars would be mad to assault anyone as they aren't a large enough force to combat Ferelden or Tevinter. What the hell are you talking about? Ferelden would be hard pressed in fighting shambles of an order that has been through a war and the Breach? And while plenty of people outside of the south think so, the Chantry is not a part of Orlais, so fighting the Templars, which are not even a part of the Chantry any longer, will not lead to anything but a swift victory for Ferelden. 

 

All in all, this was the absolute dumbest plan I can think of to do anything besides die, the only thing that I can possibly think that could top it is outright say they also eat children and worship the Elder One. 

I disagree. The TEVINTER = BAD meme in Thedas has been proven to be Chantry propaganda. Do not take everything in the Codex at face value. The entires are written by individuals varying perspectives, biases and agendas. Tevinter dealing in slavery is unquestionably deplorable, the thing is that they are not the only nation in Thedas to do so. Orlais has slaves, as does Antiva and many others. All of those nations and more are equally "bad" on that front, Tevinter is just more open about it. The Chantry isn't "good" in comparison. They spread their religion forcibly with violence and two of those Exalted Marches have been called to crush and steal the home a people their religion says is lesser even after their own Prophet said otherwise and set aside land for them. "Bad" all around.

 

The Mages never invited the Tevinters and Alexius, he showed up on his own and used Time Magic to do so in order to reach them before the Inquisition. Nor were they granted sovereignity. Both sides had fully intended to leave, one was just unaware of the intended location and the Ancient Darkspawn Magister trap. Ferelden didn't give them a deal they offered refuge. And the Templars clearly didn't care. Did you see a Ferelden army?

 

King Alistair himself says that Ferelden would be hard pressed to oust the Templars just in their country.

 

Hawke - "Aren't they in you're kingdom? Why not just kick the Templars out?"

Alistair - "Ha! Easier said than done!"

Anders - "Doesn't mean you shouldn't try."

Alistair - "We'll see what comes of it. Ferelden had a Blight to contend with, remember? We're not exactly at out strongest."

source -

 

 

I'm not sure what we are arguing right now.

Yes, Venatori infiltrated the rebellion and pushed them towards the alliance. Fiona still had to have been the one to open the gates for them.
 

It wasn't Fiona who opened the gates for the Inquisition. She is not a gate keeper. Also Fiona WAS NOT in charge of Redcliffe at the time. Arl Teagan was. If anyone was in charge of who came and went in Redcliffe it was him. Alexius didn't blast the doors down and force non Mages out by force on arrival, he did so after striking the deal and consolidating power. The former would have resulted in the Fereldens and Mages fighting back against the Tevinters who attacked them.

 

That was clearly not the case. Arl Teagan and the other Fereldens were fully aware of Alexius' presence, allowed him in and allowed him to stay. This argument is another grasping at straws attempt to place more blame on Fiona. I understand that some don't like Fiona and there are legitimate arguments against her but this is not one of them.

[The Baconer]

How so? Do you know some detail on Tevinter law that either Fiona or any of the intelligent and well studied Mages in Redcliffe that actually live in that fictional world didn't know?

 

That they would never be owed full citizenship by law, for one thing.

[DuskWanderer]

 

 

Well, I don't know what the more idiotic aspects of ancient Roman politics has to do with Thedas, but I like the idea of candidates for Divine ripping their clothes off to expose war scars. That should become a thing. 

 

You asked for precedent. If you want to discuss history more in depth, I'd be willing to play ball. Grand Game playing nonsense was par the course when the Ottoman Empire was the sick man of Europe, and such base corruption was normal in late Rome, late Persia, Carthage, and many dynastic problems in China. 

 

You can trace many collapsed empires back to what is basically the Grand Game. Getting rid of it might be the only way Orlais survives. Look also at emperors who succeeded precisely because they cut through that crap. Aurelian comes to mind. In Thedas, there is also Bhelen.

[Cobra's_back]

I don't side with the mages in my final play through. I actually disband the templars and get them off the drug.

 

Talk to Stroud, after Crestwood in Skyhold and before Western Approach "Here lies the Abyss". 

 

Stroud said that when he questioned the warden's crazy plan to deal with the blight it was the warden mages that gave the most resistance. 

 

Thats1evildude offered me this:

 

Check back in DA2 during the Legacy DLC.

 

"I was wrong. We cannot control the creature Corypheus. Even our most powerful mages hold no influence with him. In truth, it is they who have been most vulnerable."

 

"A dozen times, those assigned to guard or study the creature have sought the key to free him. When they are removed to a safe distance, they remember little. They speak of a voice in their minds, a calling like that of the Old Gods, but it wanes outside Corypheus' presence."

 

-From Warden-Commander Daneken to the First Warden in Weisshaupt, 104 TE

 

Tellingly, all the Wardens accompanying Corypheus at the Conclave (in the vision) were mages.

 

 

If we put all the data together it implies mages are more easily brain washed.

 

It also clearly shows that Viv is one smart cookie. She knows she is vulnerable and stays on guard.