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[Sifr]

The lengths you go through to defend Fiona are matched only by the lengths you go through to condemn someone like Meredith. I don't see the gifs flying out to defend her asinine decisions, and I don't see he walls of, "It's not her fault," to make her choices acceptable. Perhaps one needs to be a magical, female elf to be excuse for being inane.

 

While both Fiona and Meredith were women in leadership roles put into impossible decisions, the difference is that under Fiona was not the hardline tyrant that kept order through cracking the whip, as Meredith was for nearly two decades, even before she went nuts from Red Lyrium?

 

It has nothing to do with how I'm pro-Mage in general, I just don't buy all this hate for the character, it comes across as obvious scapegoating?

 

Alexius didn't "depose" her. He offered to protect all the mages and said that a Templar attack was imminent. Fiona, the sly fox she is, pounced on that offer as if it were a mouse. The reason she was able to do that? Because she was the de facto leader of the Mage Rebellion. She isn't some figurehead for the public.

 

Err, did you not hear what they said when you enter Redcliffe, she's referred to as being the former leader of the Rebellion. Pretty obvious that she's not in charge anymore and Alexius is?

 

Because they can't "undo" on a whim until it works. That doesn't make any sense. Fact is, it's not easy to oppose the Venatori. Especially after you let them INSIDE the fortified castle.  That kind of makes the fortifications pointless. Before that? They were virtually no thread, especially with the rebel mages backing the arl's troops. Of course this goes back to the hoop jumping I mentioned earlier, so it's not surprising to be seen here.

 

The Arl's men and the rebellion were seperate, his agreement was that they were in the village, nowhere else? When Teagan met with Alexius to discuss taking the Rebellion out of his arling, the Venatori performed a coup and seized the castle? The first the Rebellion probably heard of the takeover of Redcliffe castle was when the Arl walked out of town with his tail between his legs?

 

What are you talking about? You do realize what a castle is, yes? Redcliffe Castle, as in the location, is a keep. Redcliffe Village is a proper walled castle/city, complete with fortifications, groveling peasants, and tactical advantages. This of course all on top of the save harbor of all of Ferelden. There is literally no excuse for the stupidity shown by the rebellion, and Fiona, here.

 

But again, the Mages were never inside the castle, they were in the village?

 

As it stands, they do have a wall between them and the Templars but judging from some of the other forts in the area that have already been blasted apart by the fighting, it's likely not going to stand up to a prolonged assault? Aside from that wall and wooden palisades, they're as defended as Haven was, so any Templar attack would easily overwhelm them?

 

Is it any wonder why they're so scared?

[The Baconer]

"I will make the templar order a power that stands alone against the void..."

 

That part of what Lord Seeker Envy says in Val Royeaux, I always interpreted that as him saying that he will continue to have the templar order protect Thedas against magical dangers. And if you pick dialog where the inquisitor urges for an alliance to help close the breach, he denounces the inquisiton's ability to deal with it but still regonizes it as a threat.

 

So yeah, he does makes it clear that he intends to make the templars an independent power, but that the templars will continue upholding the spirit of their original charge by "standing against the void".

 

Just my interpretation.

 

He then immediately announces that the people of Val Royeaux do not deserve Templar protection. After a colossal breach in the Veil opens, and rifts appear across the land spawning demons, his command is to circle the wagons at a remote fortress in Ferelden.

 

If they wanted to uphold their Templar duties, they wouldn't be at Therinfal.

[Master Warder Z_]

If they wanted to uphold their Templar duties, they wouldn't be at Therinfal.

After the chaos of the conclave they probably had a mountain of legitimate logistical needs and concerns.

After all, unlike the mages they had no safe harbor to slink back into.

[The Baconer]

After all, unlike the mages they had no safe harbor to slink back into.

 

Yes they did. Before Envy told the inhabitants of said safe harbor to get f***ed, anyway.

[Master Warder Z_]

Yes they did. Before Envy told the inhabitants of said safe harbor to get f***ed, anyway.

That wouldn't have been anything but a return to those who basically took their service for granted and tried to dictate their path.

So no.

I'd not claim that the Chantry was a appropriate choice at the time.

[SgtSteel91]

well its true I find it easier to excuse people who were tricked by those in command as opposed to those who willingly entered their situation

 

Just like I find it easier to excuse an oppressed group forced to make a poor decision when backed into a corner as opposed to those who didn't even know they were being lead by a Demon, whose job includes fighting Demons, and "just following orders."

[Jedi Master of Orion]

The false Lord Seeker was explicitly failing to live up to any templar calling. That's why Barris and others were so dissatisfied. 

[Master Warder Z_]

The false Lord Seeker was explicitly failing to live up to any templar calling. That's why Barris and others were so dissatisfied.

By not engaging the Breach yes.

[The Baconer]

That wouldn't have been anything but a return to those who basically took their service for granted and tried to dictate their path.

So no.

I'd not claim that the Chantry was a appropriate choice at the time.

 

The Chantry was in no position to dictate ****, and if they really cared about their duties then the people shouldn't be sacrificed out of base spite.

[Master Warder Z_]

The Chantry was in no position to dictate ****, and if they really cared about their duties then the people shouldn't be sacrificed out of base spite.

The people?

You mean the people in the capital...with those large walls, and soldiers...and etc.

Those people?

I'm sure they were fine.

[Jedi Master of Orion]

By not engaging the Breach yes.

 

But they weren't protecting anyone or doing anything. Barris says they were brought there to wait and the higher ups refuse to tell him what the reason is. Lysette says she's staying with the Inquisition because they were doing nothing. Some of the ambient dialogue in the Therinfal courtyard is "We should be out hunting the mages who torn the sky." I think there's others that invoIve complaining about a lack of action. I think maybe even your advisers say that The Lord Seeker ordered the the Templars to hide away in Therinfal for some secret purpose.

[The Baconer]

The people?

You mean the people in the capital...with those large walls, and soldiers...and etc.

Those people?

I'm sure they were fine.

 

Yes, the people nestled in the capital... and all the people who weren't as lucky from Orlais to the entire breadth of Ferelden.

[Master Warder Z_]

But they weren't protecting anyone or doing anything.

Inaction isn't popular.

[Master Warder Z_]

Yes, the people nestled in the capital... and all the people who weren't as lucky from Orlais to the entire breadth of Ferelden.

Well there were plenty of other things to kill them apart from demons from the rifts alas.

From Venatori to deserters from the various armies to common bandits.

So I personally don't see how even had they stayed would things have been overtly affected for the better.

[The Baconer]

Well there were plenty of other things to kill them apart from demons from the rifts alas.

From Venatori to deserters from the various armies to common bandits.

So I personally don't see how even had they stayed would things have been overtly affected for the better.

 

Things wouldn't have been better if they actually stood by their oath to protect people from corrupt mages and demons? Ok.

[o Ventus]

straight to the R word yes? Shock and awe responses don't amuse me please keep it with bounds

And your missing my point which is that "IN THEDAS " OUR moral compasses we have don't apply as much. A voluntary slave can one day quit and say "involuntary I was kidnapped " but if a tevinter would pick up a urchin and sell them they might have a better life. The pendulum swings both ways

 

If a slave can voluntarily quit, then they are not a slave. 

 

Do you know what slavery is?

[raging_monkey]

If a slave can voluntarily quit, then they are not a slave.

Do you know what slavery is?

I am very much aware what slavery intails I was referring to tevinters variant . More to add do you vent?

[Master Warder Z_]

Things wouldn't have been better if they actually stood by their oath to protect people from corrupt mages and demons? Ok.

No.

For one imagine actually having a misled templar order actually having access to dispense it's mandate across the Empire.

Would you want Red lyrium being foisted across the capital outward?

[Jedi Master of Orion]

Inaction isn't popular.

 

Especially when there is no reason for it.

[The Baconer]

No.

For one imagine actually having a misled templar order actually having access to dispense it's mandate across the Empire.

Would you want Red lyrium being foisted across the capital outward?

 

On the premise that the Templars would endeavor to do their jobs instead of following the command of an outspoken nutter.

[Master Warder Z_]

Especially when there is no reason for it.

There was.

It just wasn't a good one.

Indeed it was exceptionally bad.

[Master Warder Z_]

On the premise that the Templars would endeavor to do their jobs instead of following the command of an outspoken nutter.

Alas that wasn't what we had.

After all good soldiers follow orders and chain of command.

Strained as it was.

He had command over them.

[Jedi Master of Orion]

There was.

It just wasn't a good one.

Indeed it was exceptionally bad.

 

Hence, he was failing to live up to the templars' duty.

[raging_monkey]

Oh yay the "good soldier" stance

[The Baconer]

Alas that wasn't what we had.

After all good soldiers follow orders and chain of command.

Strained as it was.

He had command over them.

 

He only had as much command as they allowed him to have. It was down to deserting their oaths or deserting an inept and outwardly corrupt leader. They chose poorly.