190 réponses à ce sujet

[NickyBarb]

The one thing that did intrigue me about this, is the many different outcomes. I have done Celene as sole ruler, all three working together and Gaspard as ruler. It will be interesting to see what implications arise from each decision.

[zambingo]

Still. What does your opinion matter?

The Inquisitor is the leader of a large and growing political, military and regardless of their personal feelings a religious force. The opinion of such a person would wisely be sought by other leaders, however hearing an opinion doesn't mean you must acquiesce to it. Celene (or insert Holder of Authority) acts wisely in gauging the Inquisition's position.

[Exaltation]

The only things i hate is the limited Halla statues,Formal Attire,and the timer/bells.
Though limited Halla statues means limited options the quest can end.

[In Exile]

You're missing the point. The game gives you 1 (one) way of dealing with this situation. That's it. Word of God. No other choices. Most RPG quest give at least a poor man's 2 choices.

The timer design is bad not because it's difficult to dispatch 10 demons and 10 other mooks under a time limit. It's bad because it makes no sense. The nobles don't see me. So what?

Shards in Oasis. I'll complain when I get there. If it's optional then probably not worth doing. Another fetch quest with collect 20/20 items. Even the specializations are a fetch quest. Still didn't get one. Damn.

@leaguer of one

Orlais is in disorder. The chevaliers have been killing themselves in a civil war. Part of their army is walking around as the undead or are burning in pits. They are nowhere near full force.

Orlais isn't in so much disorder that they couldn't mercilessly eradicate the Inquisition off the map. Remember, you don't even have the military power to win in a siege in Abyss, despite having modern siege equipment against a decrepit old ruin.

[Fredward]

Nitpicking (which isn't invalid as criticism mind you but feels weird that it's suddenly ONLY focused on this quest) and whinging about it not being enough of a power fantasy. I liked Wicked, favourite quest in the game nitpicking notwithstanding. Hawke could tell people to sod off without a game over screen because s/he was a relatively little fish in a big pond, not so the Inquisitor. Big fish? Yeah. But also swimming with other big fishes. You generally don't get to dictate what you want to other big fish because they're used to getting their way, I'm pretty sure that's the entire basis for the Great Game. All the backbiting and undercutting stops anyone from getting too big for their britches. Is it necessarily smart to ****** off the only person who can close rifts? No? But that wasn't why the Inquisitor was thrown out was it? And even if it was it wouldn't be the first time people have shot themselves in the foot over pride. Learning to placate those that need placating so you can get **** done seems like an important aspect of being in charge.

 

Besides, how do you think that was gonna go? LET ME DO WHATEVER I WANT POWERFUL PEOPLE OR I WON'T CLOSE ANY MORE RIFTS!

 

Spoiler

 

 

[Shechinah]

Besides, how do you think that was gonna go? LET ME DO WHATEVER I WANT POWERFUL PEOPLE OR I WON'T CLOSE ANY MORE RIFTS!

 

And if they do realise, they truely do need the Inquisitor to close the remaining rifts and the Inquisitior refuses, that does not mean they are immediatley going to budge and cave to their demands; they may decide to capture the Inquisitior and force them to do it on the pain of torture even at the risk of the Inquisitor dying. You may argue how foolish this would be but it is still very much a chance they'd try. They may not do this with armies but they may do this through spies and deceit; the things Orlais is famous for. 

 

Well, that and their frilly little cakes.
 

[In Exile]

Here's what I find ironic. The OPs attitude is pretty much the one Orlesian nobles would adopt when it comes to the Inquisition, which is why you're playing the game in the first place.

[Smudjygirl]

As far as everyone else is aware, mages and templars can close the rifts. They may think the Inquisitor is not needed and act on that. No one understands the mark, not even a certain person. And people are stupid when threatened. Orlais likes being omnipotent, and the Inquisition is a genuine threat. Swaggering like a peacock is not doing anyone any favours.

About being thrown out. Josie WARNS you. She tells you the court is more dangerous than facing Corypheus. You have to play the game,, because nothing else matters in Orlais.

[Heimerdinger]

About being thrown out. Josie WARNS you. She tells you the court is more dangerous than facing Corypheus. You have to play the game,, because nothing else matters in Orlais.

 

Then I'm starting to question the whole point of saving it. Can you let the demons win? Just give me my Low EMS ending where they all die. Seems fitting for them.

[In Exile]

Then I'm starting to question the whole point of saving it. Can you let the demons win? Just give me my Low EMS ending where they all die. Seems fitting for them.

 

The game doesn't let you grip the idiot ball. 

[Smudjygirl]

Then I'm starting to question the whole point of saving it. Can you let the demons win? Just give me my Low EMS ending where they all die. Seems fitting for them.

If the Inquisitor was short sighted, sure. The way Orlais does its politics is different, and that quest sets itself apart from most others because you have to be smart about it. They tell you why you need to save Orlais, because Tevinter is kept at bay by them. You play the game once, beat them at it by a mile, have them in your pocket and NEVER have to do it again. You essentially take Orlais down a few pegs. If you dislike the mechanics of the mission, fine
But there is nothing wrong with the story, especially if you are familiar with Orlais and the Grand Game. And to wish doom upon the fantasy world is taking finding a mission menial a tad too far.

[KaiserShep]

I actually loved this quest. I enjoyed that I could skip the boss battle entirely, casually walk up to the snake in frilly clothing and execute her right then and there in front of all those foppish clowns with a smile rather than waste time battling her in the courtyard, then top it off by hanging the dirty secrets of the three jokers vying for power and force them to work together, while they pretend in front of the crowd.

 

The halla statuettes are pretty tricky, I'll grant, though I was able to find all of them while still retaining at least 95 approval by the time I entered the ballroom for the last time. The timer seems to be more forgiving in later segments of this quest, particularly when you're going through the closed wing of the palace and fighting Venatori, I found upon repeat play. With that and focusing only on three specific doors I can pretty much get everything I want.

 

I do share your dislike of the formal attire though. It's a shame we couldn't get something...fancier. I also wish we were able to play along and wear the stupid mask. I wouldn't really care to wear it anywhere else.

[JamieCOTC]

I HATED the Inquisition outfits. Outside of that I thought it was a nice change of pace to bashing everything. Here's what I got out of the experience. The Orlesians do respect the Inquisitor, but they just can't come out and say so out of fear of looking bad in front of everyone else. The Grand game is all about perceptions. It's all political. It is ridiculous, but then most politics are ridiculous and for me that was the point.

[Smudjygirl]

I HATED the Inquisition outfits. Outside of that I thought it was a nice change of pace to bashing everything. Here's what I got out of the experience. The Orlesians do respect the Inquisitor, but they just can't come out and say so out of fear of looking bad in front of everyone else. The Grand game is all about perceptions. It's all political. It is ridiculous, but then most politics are ridiculous and for me that was the point.

I recall Josie saying in the mission intro that Celine feared the Inquisitors presence would make things worse.

[AshenSugar]

I agree with one or two of your points but not all.

 

I'd actually have enjoyed Wicked Hearts Wicked Minds if not for the timer, as I generally like this kind of politically-orientated gameplay.

 

As it was, the timer completely trashed any kind of enjoyment I may have gained, and turned it into a frustrating hell that I couldn't wait to get over with.

 

I suspect that for objective-focussed people who prefer to race through content quickly this quest wouldn't be such a big deal, but for those like me, who love to take there time, exploring everywhere and and playing slowly, carefully and methodically, timed missions are a total nightmare.

 

I wish someone from the modding community could come up with a way of removing the timer from the quest altogether.

[Donovan Du Bois]

Then I'm starting to question the whole point of saving it. Can you let the demons win? Just give me my Low EMS ending where they all die. Seems fitting for them.

 

You can. You can let them all die, but then you lose. That's why you have to play their game.

[correctamundo]

Then I'm starting to question the whole point of saving it. Can you let the demons win? Just give me my Low EMS ending where they all die. Seems fitting for them.

 

I thought you saw the game over screen?

[Donovan Du Bois]

It's an odd quest but not bad.

[thats1evildude]

Then I'm starting to question the whole point of saving it. Can you let the demons win? Just give me my Low EMS ending where they all die. Seems fitting for them.

 

Sure, if you don't mind letting the rest of Thedas fall to Corypheus.

[Melbella]

I agree with one or two of your points but not all.
 
I'd actually have enjoyed Wicked Hearts Wicked Minds if not for the timer, as I generally like this kind of politically-orientated gameplay.
 
As it was, the timer completely trashed any kind of enjoyment I may have gained, and turned it into a frustrating hell that I couldn't wait to get over with.
 
I suspect that for objective-focussed people who prefer to race through content quickly this quest wouldn't be such a big deal, but for those like me, who love to take there time, exploring everywhere and and playing slowly, carefully and methodically, timed missions are a total nightmare.
 
I wish someone from the modding community could come up with a way of removing the timer from the quest altogether.

I discovered in my most recent game, during the first investigating sequence, that the bell doesn't ring until you pick up the letter in the library (the one from Celene to Morrigan). That let me wander around pretty much at will until I was ready to go back. Yes, the approval still ticks down but it's easily regained. Later on, I always do everything except enter the last room where the rift is, then head back to the ballroom one last time to turn in secrets/toss coins/talk with everyone. Then I run back to the rift room to finish the mission. I learned not to worry about losing approval since it's pretty easy to get it back, but I still reload if I drop 20 points for "being late".  And really, having high approval only matters if you want to expose Florianne rather than fight her.

 

Edit: agree about the halla statues though. I want enough to open all the doors, darn it!

[Thelzar]

I liked the mission, mostly. That said, timers are never fun, and it would be cooler with the option to use brute force consequences be damned.

[Sylvius the Mad]

Man I don't even know where to start. I'll just list the entire cluster**** step by step.

- the game forces you to kiss noble ass. There is no way around that, no alternative option. Where is the Inquisition's power?

The Inquisition doesn't have power yet. Wicked Eyes Wicked Hearts demonstrates the weakness of the Inquisition at that point. Only by beating the Orlesians at their own game can you win there.

Showing force would lead to open war. All of Orlais would unite to oppose you. You would doom the world.

The Orlesians do not take the Inquisition seriously until after Wicked Eyes Wicked Hearts. Before that, you're a curiosity. They show their daring by inviting you to the party, becauee your organization is edgy and new are mysterious, and they want to be associated with those characteristics without actually having to exhibit them.

The Orlesian nobility shows in WEWH that they are petty and ineffective and stupid, but they have all the institutional power (this is why Sera hates them), and you need to overcome that deficit. You can't just ignore that they have all the institutional power, which appears to be what you want. But if you could do that, the world would be a lot less believable.

The Inquisition talks a good game, but they don't have anybreal influence until after WEWH (a quest wherein you ultimately subvert their rules using espionage).

[Sylvius the Mad]

But hey, maybe I'm just too used to playing characters like Shepard where the direct (renegade) approach is always available and works just fine.

It shouldn't always work. Sometimes it should fail.

Having it always work simply isn't credible.

[leaguer of one]

Here's what I find ironic. The OPs attitude is pretty much the one Orlesian nobles would adopt when it comes to the Inquisition, which is why you're playing the game in the first place.

At 35:42