190 réponses à ce sujet

[leaguer of one]

Anora's support is worth 3 points and you need 5 points to win. It's possible to win without her if you get all other support and evidence and pick the right dialogue.

 

http://dragonage.wik...dsmeet_decision

Nope. You can't if you don't have the support and use the evidence. Plain and simple. I can even show you the video of it.

 

Even more so the wiki says you can't do it with the evidence.

 

Winning without Anora: Complete Lost Templar and Tortured Noble successfully before the Landsmeet and either free Vaughan or complete The Trial of Crows. Use the "focus on the Blight" argument in the first round, the "torture dungeons of Howe" argument in the second, and the "poisoning of Arl Eamon" argument in the third. This will ensure the Grand Cleric's denunciation of Loghain and the votes of Alfstanna, Sighard and Wulff. If done successfully, Logain will bring up the topic of Anora being held by the Wardens. To this, use "What? I did it to protect her from you!" and subsequently the option "What?!" when Anora reveals her betrayal.

Note: It seems that arguments which garner support but are not backed by quests (Blight and slavery) do not contribute to the point gain, therefore the additional votes of Vaughan and/or the mysterious nobleman are required.

[robertthebard]

Nope. You can't if you don't have the support and use the evidence. Plain and simple. I can even show you the video of it.

Don't do that, we can't be muddying the water with facts.

[andy6915]

Nope. You can't if you don't have the support and use the evidence. Plain and simple. I can even show you the video of it.

 

You only need the support of the ones you can get from going to that father of that guy being tortured in Howe's dungeon, and giving the ring to that one Templar's sister. From there just use the "blight is the problem", "tortured nobles", and "used a blood mage to poison people" arguments. From there, winning without Anora gets tricky. You need to get very particular for that part. If you respond to Loghain asking where his daughter is with "I protected her from you", and then act surprised to Anora's betrayal by picking "What?!" or "He was going to kill you!", you will win with only that support. If you say anything like "your crimes are what we're talking about here" to Loghain when he asks or act like you expected Anora's betrayal, you'll lose without the rapist from the city elf origin or without the noble you help in the Crow missions. So act like you protected Anora and act shocked when she betrays you, and you don't even need the Crows mission noble or Vaughan.

 

Why does it matter how you respond to Loghain to her betrayal? I don't know. But it's a fact, one I discovered last playthrough by accident. Somehow, those dialogue choices actually make a difference. I reloaded in the landsmeet hall, so no changes made, but won the next time with the only choices being how I answered where Anora was and how I responded to her directly when she betrayed me. I can get a bad video of that if YOU want. Both outcomes in fact, just to prove the difference those 2 dialogue choices make. You would need to wait a while though, I'm no where close to the landsmeet.

 

And yes, I know that just about no one will believe me. This fact is extremely unknown among the fanbase. But here's another person confirming it, something I found only after I figured this out myself and went googling about.

 

http://www.reddit.co...erence_between/

[leaguer of one]

You only need the support of the ones you can get from going to that father of that guy being tortured in Howe's dungeon, and giving the ring to that one Templar's sister. From there just use the "blight is the problem", "tortured nobles", and "used a blood mage to poison people" arguments. From there, winning without Anora gets tricky. You need to get very particular for that part. If you respond to Loghain asking where his daughter is with "I protected her from you", and then act surprised to Anora's betrayal by picking the 2 options that AREN'T "I knew you would betray me", you will win wit only that support. If you say anything like "your crimes are what we're talking about here" to Loghain when he asks or act like you expected Anora's betrayal, you'll lose without the rapist from the city elf origin or without the noble you help in the Crow missions. So act like you protected Anora and act shocked when she betrays you, and you don't even need the Crows mission noble or Vaughan.

 

Why does it matter how you respond to Loghain to her betrayal? I don't know. But it's a fact, one I discovered last playthrough by accident. Somehow, those dialogue choices actually make a difference. I reloaded in the landsmeet hall, so now changes made, but won the next time with the only choices being how I answered where Anora was and how I responded to her directly when she betrayed me. I can get a bad video of that if YOU want. Both outcomes in fact, just to prove the difference those 2 dialogue choices make. You would need to wait a while though, I'm no where close to the landsmeet.

 

And yes, I know that just about no one will believe me. This fact is extremely unknown among the fanbase. But here's another person confirming it, something I found only after I figured this out myself and went googling about.

 

http://www.reddit.co...erence_between/

From the wiki..

I also did the crow mission. And i used the ""I protected her from you" and acted surprised to her beck stab.  i'm up loading the video of it now.

 

Winning without Anora: Complete Lost Templar and Tortured Noble successfully before the Landsmeet and either free Vaughan or complete The Trial of Crows. Use the "focus on the Blight" argument in the first round, the "torture dungeons of Howe" argument in the second, and the "poisoning of Arl Eamon" argument in the third. This will ensure the Grand Cleric's denunciation of Loghain and the votes of Alfstanna, Sighard and Wulff. If done successfully, Logain will bring up the topic of Anora being held by the Wardens. To this, use "What? I did it to protect her from you!" and subsequently the option "What?!" when Anora reveals her betrayal.

Note: It seems that arguments which garner support but are not backed by quests (Blight and slavery) do not contribute to the point gain, therefore the additional votes of Vaughan and/or the mysterious nobleman are required.

[andy6915]

 

From the wiki..

 

Winning without Anora: Complete Lost Templar and Tortured Noble successfully before the Landsmeet and either free Vaughan or complete The Trial of Crows. Use the "focus on the Blight" argument in the first round, the "torture dungeons of Howe" argument in the second, and the "poisoning of Arl Eamon" argument in the third. This will ensure the Grand Cleric's denunciation of Loghain and the votes of Alfstanna, Sighard and Wulff. If done successfully, Logain will bring up the topic of Anora being held by the Wardens. To this, use "What? I did it to protect her from you!" and subsequently the option "What?!" when Anora reveals her betrayal.

Note: It seems that arguments which garner support but are not backed by quests (Blight and slavery) do not contribute to the point gain, therefore the additional votes of Vaughan and/or the mysterious nobleman are required.

 

 

The wiki has been wrong before. You do not need them, period. I didn't get that Crow noble's support since I didn't even do the quest and killed Vaughan in his cell earlier, and still won or lost based on the Anora responses. And the guy in my Reddit post confirms the same damn thing. To quote it-

 

 

"Let me break it down below:

• (Persuade) The Blight is the real problem, not Orlais!

• Tell that Loghain allowed Howe to torture prisoners.

• Tell that Loghain facilitated a blood mage's escape from the Chantry, and poisoned Arl Eamon.

At this point, you'll have achieved public verbal support and confirmation from the various Nobles, and then Loghain will sidetrack the debate and bring up your involvement in "kidnapping" Anora, and publicly question whether you've killed her or not. This is where the dialogue choices will win or lose the Landsmeet, even if you follow the same order of debate points listed above!

Lose

• [In response Loghain's accusations against you regarding his daughter] We're talking about YOUR crimes here.

• [Anora appears, reveals that she has turned against you] I knew you were working for Loghain.

This results in a slightly longer dialogue sequence from Loghain and Anora denouncing you, which seems to sway the unspoken opinions of the unnamed voters, as reflected by the unnamed final speaker (on ground level, red moustache) who names Loghain as the one to support. This character appears to simply be the indicator of "who won", regardless of verbal noble support. The mechanics of the Landsmeet are actually defined by an unspoken point-system of effective argument and retort in the eyes of those characters present - ie: Whether you argued with momentum and reason over bitterness and slander.

 

 

Win

• [In response Loghain's accusations against you regarding his daughter] What?! I did it to protect her from you!

• [Anora appears, reveals that she has turned against you] What?! [Alistair comments, "Oh look, she's turned against us. And we were hoping she'd turn out to be a nice despot."]

This results in a short dialogue sequence from Anora denouncing you, which seems to sway the unspoken opinions of the unnamed voters, as reflected by the aforementioned unnamed final speaker (on ground level, red moustache) who names the Warden as the one to support.

In short, once the optimal conversational order of proof is brought forth by the Warden who opposes Anora, there appears to be one or two final "points" earned in that short exchange regarding Anora. Perhaps your public surprise when Anora reveals she's turned on you sways sympathy in your favor, perhaps it shows the lies and immoral aptitude of Loghain and his daughter the Queen. Perhaps both. The bottom line is that there appears to be much, much more than meets the eye at the Landsmeet, and even the DA:O community's general understanding of the point system is still woefully underwhelming"

 

 

I can confirm the above is fact.

[andy6915]

Aw sh!t! Vaughan did speak on this video, didn't catch it was his voice. I'll keep looking for anyone else who made a video then...

 

[leaguer of one]

 

 

 

Win

• [In response Loghain's accusations against you regarding his daughter] What?! I did it to protect her from you!

• [Anora appears, reveals that she has turned against you] What?! [Alistair comments, "Oh look, she's turned against us. And we were hoping she'd turn out to be a nice despot."]

This results in a short dialogue sequence from Anora denouncing you, which seems to sway the unspoken opinions of the unnamed voters, as reflected by the aforementioned unnamed final speaker (on ground level, red moustache) who names the Warden as the one to support.

In short, once the optimal conversational order of proof is brought forth by the Warden who opposes Anora, there appears to be one or two final "points" earned in that short exchange regarding Anora. Perhaps your public surprise when Anora reveals she's turned on you sways sympathy in your favor, perhaps it shows the lies and immoral aptitude of Loghain and his daughter the Queen. Perhaps both. The bottom line is that there appears to be much, much more than meets the eye at the Landsmeet, and even the DA:O community's general understanding of the point system is still woefully underwhelming"

 

 

I can confirm the above is fact.

And I can confirm it as being wrong.  I'm uploading a video to prove it.

[andy6915]

Well it seems no one has ever actually recorded that outcome before. I guess I'll have to make a bad cell phone video of it later when I get to that part, and make this officially documented with video proof. Leager, you might want to get a plate and some silverware ready for when it's time for your words to be eaten when that video goes up.

[FemShem]

How did we get from the original topic to Lands Meet?  Did I miss something?  BTW: it is entirely possible that I'm really tired and just missed something.  Can I have Wicked Eyes to Landsmeet for Dummies for $200, Pat?

[leaguer of one]

Well it seems no one has ever actually recorded that outcome before. I guess I'll have to make a bad cell phone video of it later when I get to that part, and make this officially documented with video proof. Leager, you might want to get a plate and some silverware ready for when it's time for your words to be eaten when that video goes up.

More you. i have a personal video of it on my desktop of it I'm up loading to youtube now. Sorry, but the video will show your wrong.

[andy6915]

And I can confirm it as being wrong.  I'm uploading a video to prove it.

 

Go ahead. Don't have Vaughan or the Crow noble, and pick the dialogue I said to and watch as you win the landsmeet and prove your own damn point wrong with your video. Please go ahead and destroy your own point, that will be great to watch. Or will you even have the courage to upload it when your own video gets you a response you didn't think was possible? Not that it matters, if you refuse to upload that, I will. I will know if you did it or not as soon as I watch your "proof", I'll know when I don't see either Crow Noble or Vaughan speak and then you pick the "protected her from you and "what" responses to Loghain and Anora... Anything else, and I'll know you intentionally avoided doing so because you didn't want to own yourself.

 

You put yourself between a rock and a hard place now. Will be interesting to see how you act from here. Own yourself by not showing it, or by proving me right... Which will you pick? You don't need those 2 nobles if you pick what I said to, and you're about to find out. Maybe.

 

edit:

 

A video on your desktop? So basically, a video of you either having one of the 2 optional nobles you don't need or a video of you picking an option I said not to? That won't work, you need to make a new video of WHAT I SAID TO to prove yourself right.

[leaguer of one]

Go ahead. Don't have Vaughan or the Crow noble, and pick the dialogue I said to. And watch as you win the landsmeet and prove your own damn point wrong with your video. Please go ahead and destroy your own point, that will be great to watch. Or will you even have the courage to upload it when your own video gets you a response you didn't think was possible? Not that it matters, if you refuse to upload that, I will. I will know if you did it or not as soon as I watch your "proof", I'll know when I don't see either Crow Noble or Vaughan speak and then you pick the "protected her from you and "what" responses to Loghain and Anora... Anything else, and I'll know you intentionally avoided doing so because you didn't want to own yourself.

 

You put yourself between a rock and a hard place now. Will be interesting to see how you act from here. Own yourself by not showing it, or by proving me right... Which will you pick?

Vaughan is dead in my run and I have the backing of the crow noble. And I picked the"protect her from you " and "what"dialogue and still lost. and this is the pc version.

[leaguer of one]

How did we get from the original topic to Lands Meet?  Did I miss something?  BTW: it is entirely possible that I'm really tired and just missed something.  Can I have Wicked Eyes to Landsmeet for Dummies for $200, Pat?

Op, said the landsmeet in Dao was better and more flexible then the ball in dai. People are pointing out that he's wrong.

[andy6915]

Hey, anyone with a savefile near the landsmeet... You can prove Leager wrong if you want. Just make sure that Anora betrays you, you have no help from Vaughan or the Crow noble (so conventional wisdom is that you'll lose), and pick the "protected her from you" or the "what"/"he was going to kill you" options and show the landsmeet being won based on that.

 

I'll upload it myself within a week or so if no one else does.

[FemShem]

The wiki has been wrong before. You do not need them, period. I didn't get that Crow noble's support since I didn't even do the quest and killed Vaughan in his cell earlier, and still won or lost based on the Anora responses. And the guy in my Reddit post confirms the same damn thing. To quote it-

 

 

"Let me break it down below:

• (Persuade) The Blight is the real problem, not Orlais!

• Tell that Loghain allowed Howe to torture prisoners.

• Tell that Loghain facilitated a blood mage's escape from the Chantry, and poisoned Arl Eamon.

At this point, you'll have achieved public verbal support and confirmation from the various Nobles, and then Loghain will sidetrack the debate and bring up your involvement in "kidnapping" Anora, and publicly question whether you've killed her or not. This is where the dialogue choices will win or lose the Landsmeet, even if you follow the same order of debate points listed above!

Lose

• [In response Loghain's accusations against you regarding his daughter] We're talking about YOUR crimes here.

• [Anora appears, reveals that she has turned against you] I knew you were working for Loghain.

This results in a slightly longer dialogue sequence from Loghain and Anora denouncing you, which seems to sway the unspoken opinions of the unnamed voters, as reflected by the unnamed final speaker (on ground level, red moustache) who names Loghain as the one to support. This character appears to simply be the indicator of "who won", regardless of verbal noble support. The mechanics of the Landsmeet are actually defined by an unspoken point-system of effective argument and retort in the eyes of those characters present - ie: Whether you argued with momentum and reason over bitterness and slander.

 

 

Win

• [In response Loghain's accusations against you regarding his daughter] What?! I did it to protect her from you!

• [Anora appears, reveals that she has turned against you] What?! [Alistair comments, "Oh look, she's turned against us. And we were hoping she'd turn out to be a nice despot."]

This results in a short dialogue sequence from Anora denouncing you, which seems to sway the unspoken opinions of the unnamed voters, as reflected by the aforementioned unnamed final speaker (on ground level, red moustache) who names the Warden as the one to support.

In short, once the optimal conversational order of proof is brought forth by the Warden who opposes Anora, there appears to be one or two final "points" earned in that short exchange regarding Anora. Perhaps your public surprise when Anora reveals she's turned on you sways sympathy in your favor, perhaps it shows the lies and immoral aptitude of Loghain and his daughter the Queen. Perhaps both. The bottom line is that there appears to be much, much more than meets the eye at the Landsmeet, and even the DA:O community's general understanding of the point system is still woefully underwhelming"

 

 

I can confirm the above is fact.

Yep.  When I get home from the doctor tomorrow I'll give it a whirl (sounds like a fun time).  I think (hope) I have a cut/save from some toon before the Lands Meet.  I'll give it a whirl...anyhoo...not that this isn't great but what does this have to do with the Wicked dungeon?

[andy6915]

Vaughan is dead in my run and I have the backing of the crow noble. And I picked the"protect her from you " and "what"dialogue and still lost. and this is the pc version.

 

And you picked the "blight", "blood mage", and "tortured nobles" options? If so and you still lost, your game is glitched. And it really does sound like a glitch, the Crow noble is supposed to allow you to win with those arguments chosen regardless of your response to Loghain or Anora.

[andy6915]

Yep.  When I get home from the doctor tomorrow I'll give it a whirl (sounds like a fun time).  I think (hope) I have a cut/save from some toon before the Lands Meet.  I'll give it a whirl...anyhoo...not that this isn't great but what does this have to do with the Wicked dungeon?

Someone tried to argue that the landsmeet is just as limited as the save the empress quest.

 

And go ahead and upload 2 videos. One where you pick the wrong options with the "protected" and "what"/"kill you" options, and one where you do pick the right ones, just to show the difference it made.

[Magdalena11]

In DAI, I put off WEWH as long as possible, and the accursed timer has completely ruined a plotline I was interested in.  I don't care about Orlais, or the Inquisition, or even what's going on around me.  I'm looking all over the screen while the timer counts down and my blood pressure rises because I  can't find a single thing in the dark!!!!!!!!  I ping away on the search and run over the same ground over and over because I'm hopelessly lost, slowly losing approval.  I'm frantic to find the clues I need to put the person I want in power and get the outcome I want to manipulate companion approval, which is tied to all plot quests.  The only thing that makes this test, I mean quest, remotely tolerable is that there are no shards or waterfalls.  It's a shame.  I wanted to meet Morrigan and enjoy Orlesian intrigue and the scenery, and it's a bunch of fetch quests in the dark.

[MisterJB]

Yes, you get 3 outcomes with some variations and decide who rules, but not multiple paths to get there. The DAO Landsmeet also gives you many outcomes but also different paths with many variations along the line.

 

- Preliminary quests to prepare and make your case, find evidence, talk to the nobles, do favors, rescue the queen and ally with her (or not) and so on.

- You can win the landsmeet with evidence and diplomacy, even gives you a nice bonus ability point.

- You can lose because you don't have evidence or picked wrong answers but it's still possible to complete the quest after the fight and raising some ruckus.

- You can lose on purpose, maybe traded the evidence and took Caladrius's deal, warden walks in and takes a swing at Loghain with no evidence, no queen support, you can even insult ferelden traditions by proposing your dog for the duel. You still complete the quest.Why? Because you are The Warden and not that scrubby looking dude who sells chewed gloves near Lake Calenhad.

 

And please don't tell me Ferelden is some backwater country because it's really not. They already defeated Orlais in the past. Orlais just thinks it's a backwater country. And the ferelden nobles are actually harder to win over because they value actual values like loyalty, honor, defending the nation. They don't care for masks and nonsense.

 

The Landsmeet is how you do RPG quests , WHWM is how you should not.

 

You are telling me the reason you don't like this quest is because you can't bludgeon your way through it?

 

In fact, I don't like this quest. I think it's the weakest of all the main quests but I can definitively tell that it's actually better than the Landsmeet in terms of alternative paths.

 

In the Landsmeet it's impossible to lose. You either win the support of the nobles or the games flies in face of all logic and decides to have the fate of Ferelden hinge on a duel despite the fact the nobles have already thrown their support behind Loghain because he won the debate. How does hitting him with a sword change that?

Ferelden's culture is not militant to the point of demency.

So, basically, you don't actually have more than one way of solving the Landsmeet. You either win the support of the nobles by yourself or you mess up at which point the game bails you out.

 

 

Meanwhile, in the Winter Palace, you can lose; or you can try to arrest Florianne leading to her revealing herself; or you can allow her to assassinate the Empress and then support Gaspard; or you can even have her surrender when your support amidst the nobility is overwhelming.

 

Regardless of my personal feelings regarding this quest, it's evident that it actually has many more paths than the Landsmeet and they actually make sense.
 

[Dabrikishaw]

Op, said the landsmeet in Dao was better and more flexible then the ball in dai. People are pointing out that he's wrong.

I guess people aren't using the Harrowmont/Bhelin comparison because it's also impossible to lose unless you go out of your way to betray both of them.

[leaguer of one]

And you picked the "blight", "blood mage", and "tortured nobles" options? If so and you still lost, your game is glitched. And it really does sound like a glitch, the Crow noble is supposed to allow you to win with those arguments chosen regardless of your response to Loghain or Anora.

No i did not. In fact the only way I've won the landsmeet is with those 3 options you just state with the "I was protecting her from you" and "what!" dialogue.

[andy6915]

No i did not. In fact the only way I've won the landsmeet is with those 3 options you just state with the "I was protecting her from you" and "what!" dialogue.

 

Well I've won with Anora betraying me for 2 playthroughs in a row now, and both of them had me lacking both Vaughan and Crow noble. In fact, let me tell exactly what happened the first time I found out.

 

I planned for Anora to betray me by picking not to support her, I was a Cousland female planning on marrying Alistair and wanted Anora totally out of the way and had confidence in my own political skills. I did the Crow missions entirely, so I thought that would get me Crow noble's support... But I was wrong. Killing Ignacio at the very last moment makes it so the Crow noble DOESN'T support you, which I only discovered in the middle of the damn landsmeet. So here I am, losing the landsmeet because a noble I expected to help was a no show and I told Loghain I was discussing his crimes and telling Anora I expected her betrayal with smug satisfaction. So I reload immediately and try again, hoping it was a glitch but truthfully knowing I was screwed and was just going to lose again. And yet I somehow... Won? How the hell? I did nothing different, did I? So I reload again out of confusion, and go googling and find that Reddit post. I see that post and realize I did make different choices, and the choices I made when I won were the ones listed in that Reddit post. So on my third reload, I once again choose "protected" and "What?!", and once again won the landsmeet. I reload a 4th time for posterity sake and pick the smug options again, and lost (and of course reloaded my save made after I won the first time that playthrough).

 

On my next playthrough, I intentionally did the same thing as last time. I let Anora betray me, picked "blight" and "poison" and "torture", and with no Vaughan or Crow noble support picked the shocked options, all without worry... And won, as expected thanks to my last playthrough.

 

That was how I learned of this.

[leaguer of one]

Well I've won with Anora betraying me for 2 playthroughs in a row now, and both of them had me lacking both Vaughan and Crow noble. In fact, let me tell exactly what happened the first time I found out.

 

I planned for Anora to betray me by picking not to support her, I was a Cousland female planning on marrying Alistair and wanted Anora totally out of the way and had confidence in my own political skills. I did the Crow missions entirely, so I thought that would get me Crow noble's support... But I was wrong. Killing Ignacio at the very last moment makes it so the Crow noble DOESN'T support you, which I only discovered in the middle of the damn landsmeet. So here I am, losing the landsmeet because a noble I expected to help was a no show and I told Loghain I was discussing his crimes and telling Anora I expected her betrayal with smug satisfaction. So I reload immediately and try again, hoping it was a glitch but truthfully knowing I was screwed and was just going to lose again. And yet I somehow... Won? How the hell? I did nothing different, did I? So I reload again out of confusion, and go googling and find that Reddit post. I see that post and realize I did make different choices, and the choices I made when I won were the ones listed in that Reddit post. So on my third reload, I once again choose "protected" and "What?!", and once again won the landsmeet. I reload a 4th time for posterity sake and pick the smug options again, and lost (and of course reloaded my save made after I won the first time that playthrough).

 

On my next playthrough, I intentionally did the same thing as last time. I let Anora betray me, picked "blight" and "poison" and "torture", and with no Vaughan or Crow noble support picked the shocked options, all without worry... And won, as expected thanks to my last playthrough.

 

That was how I learned of this.

And the video I'm upload proves that wrong.

[andy6915]

And the video I'm upload proves that wrong.

 

No it won't, unless your game is glitched. That Reddit post along with me makes this 2 to 1, with you being the 1. You're the outlier. Just wait until I or Femshem upload our own vids and prove yours wrong.

[leaguer of one]

No it won't, unless your game is glitched. That Reddit post along with me makes this 2 to 1, with you being the 1. You're the outlier. Just wait until I or Femshem upload our own vids and prove yours wrong.

This is the pc version with the latest patch for Dao ultimate edition. I can assure you it's not glitching.