190 réponses à ce sujet

[Hurbster]

Apart from the timing and the lack of choices as a result of the timing I quite enjoyed it.

[andy6915]

This is the pc version with the latest patch for Dao ultimate edition. I can assure you it's not glitching.

 

I have the PS3 Ultimate Edition, also latest patch. The console version's patches were kept in line with the PC ones, the console version has the same patches as your PC version.

 

You sure you have no mods causing conflict?

[Magdalena11]

You are telling me the reason you don't like this quest is because you can't bludgeon your way through it?

 

In fact, I don't like this quest. I think it's the weakest of all the main quests but I can definitively tell that it's actually better than the Landsmeet in terms of alternative paths.

 

In the Landsmeet it's impossible to lose. You either win the support of the nobles or the games flies in face of all logic and decides to have the fate of Ferelden hinge on a duel despite the fact the nobles have already thrown their support behind Loghain because he won the debate. How does hitting him with a sword change that?

Ferelden's culture is not militant to the point of demency.

So, basically, you don't actually have more than one way of solving the Landsmeet. You either win the support of the nobles by yourself or you mess up at which point the game bails you out.

 

 

Meanwhile, in the Winter Palace, you can lose; or you can try to arrest Florianne leading to her revealing herself; or you can allow her to assassinate the Empress and then support Gaspard; or you can even have her surrender when your support amidst the nobility is overwhelming.

 

Regardless of my personal feelings regarding this quest, it's evident that it actually has many more paths than the Landsmeet and they actually make sense.
 

I agree completely that there are more alternate paths.  You also see more changes later in the game than who makes the speech and gets a crown.  They're not dramatic, but they're there.

 

As I can attest, you can bludgeon your way through.  I think the first time I went through, I only managed to do the minimum to finish the quest.  I don't think I did any exploring at all other than what I needed to to get out of there.  The only choices I had were allow Celene to be assassinated and choose Gaspard or Briala, or intervene without evidence for Celene, but I got through the quest.  I never did find any secrets or caprices for approval, but I did say mostly all the right things to Florianne.  Even though some of my companions weren't happy about what I decided, other things cancelled it out.

 

I think the entire way timed quests are handled needs to never, ever be repeated.  Have a timed quest, but make it minor, not a major plot quest, and don't tie players' dexterity or eyesight to companion approval ever again.  I will relplay Haven if necessary, because I will not lose Varric's or Viv's approval boosts.  If it was a nice piece of loot, I wouldn't care at all, or at least as much.  Varric's approval, I don't need to worry about, but I'll be doing so much later in the game to annoy Viv, I need every point I can get early on.  If you're going to fill a timed quest with fetch sidequests, put in lightswitches.  I like the patches of fog, lightning, explosions, nugs and things that are helping people who are lost (elsewhere, not the palace, sadly), but the dark adds a level of tension that is completely unnecessary during a timed quest.  It also completely ruins the efforts of the art department designing the Winter Palace.  I hope they just reused elements from other places, because if they did anything special just for Halamshiral, I haven't seen it yet.  Just about the only thing I see there is the garden.  Everything else is variegated dark areas that might have yellow outlines if I ping them.  And walls and furniture I run into.

[leaguer of one]

I have the PS3 Ultimate Edition, also latest patch. The console version's patches were kept in line with the PC ones, the console version has the same patches as your PC version.

 

You sure you have no mods causing conflict?

Nope. Not one mod in this version.

[leaguer of one]

Apart from the timing and the lack of choices as a result of the timing I quite enjoyed it.

You have plenty of choice. It's just based on what secrets you find in the ball.

[Drasanil]

I don't get all the people complaining about the timer. It's pretty darn forgiving and earning approval back is ridiculously easy.

[leaguer of one]

I have the PS3 Ultimate Edition, also latest patch. The console version's patches were kept in line with the PC ones, the console version has the same patches as your PC version.

 

You sure you have no mods causing conflict?

And here's the video.

[Zjarcal]

Wicked Eyes and Wicked Hearts is probably the best quest in the entire series.

[andy6915]

And here's the video.

 

You screwed up. You used the argument about enslaving elves... An argument that gains you no points. That is why you lost. You didn't make the right arguments.

 

Told you you screwed up somewhere or had a glitched game. Now redo it with the choices I said to.

[leaguer of one]

You screwed up. You used the argument about enslaving elves... An argument that gains you no points. That is why you lost. You didn't make the right arguments.

 

Told you you screwed up somewhere or had a glitched game. Now redo it with the choices I said to.

You do understand that my entire argument is that you can't use the slaver evidence and have Anora against you and win?

 

Did you not even read what i wrote that started the argument in the first place?

http://forum.bioware...5#entry19185105

[andy6915]

You do understand that my entire argument is that you can't use the slaver evidence and have Anora against you and win?

 

Did you not even read what i wrote that started the argument in the first place?

http://forum.bioware...5#entry19185105

 

You must have misunderstood my point. I said you can win without Crow or Vaughan while Anora still betrays you, which contradicts the common thought amongst DAO players is that you either need Anora or one of those 2 nobles to win. My point was that the quest in fact has more freedom than you or even the vast majority of the DA fanbase thinks you do for winning the landsmeet, freedom I only learned in the last year after playing DAO more times than I can count off the top of my head.

 

I was arguing your overall point, not your specific "you can't choose the slavery" argument one. I already said earlier that you must pick "blight" "poison" and "torture" arguments to win without Anora or extra support.

[leaguer of one]

You must have misunderstood my point. I said you can win without Crow or Vaughan while Anora still betrays you, which contradicts the common thought amongst DAO players is that you either need Anora or one of those 2 nobles to win. My point was that the quest in fact has more freedom than you or even the vast majority of the DA fanbase thinks you do for winning the landsmeet, freedom I only learned in the last year after playing DAO more times than I can count off the top of my head.

 

I was arguing your overall point, not your specific "you can't choose the slavery" argument one. I already said earlier that you must pick "blight" "poison" and "torture" arguments to win without Anora or extra support.

*facepalm.

 

Then your point has nothing to do with the argument. The entire argument was about the evidence not how to win with out Anora's backing. Did you not read what the argument was about before coming into it? No one was saying you can't win with out her support

[andy6915]

No one was saying you can't win with out her support

 

No, they do. Sorta. Everyone thinks you need Vaughan or Crow noble to win without her even with making the perfect arguments... Which is untrue, you don't need them. How you respond to the things to do with Anora matters much more than pretty much the entire fanbase thinks. That, in effect, means you have even more wiggle room for freedom than everyone says you do. No one says you can't win without her support, that's true. Everyone says you can't with without her support and without the extra nobles, that's false.

 

What I said was exactly on topic and was a good point. You just don't like that you completely misunderstood my intent with that post.

[leaguer of one]

No, they do. Sorta. Everyone thinks you need Vaughan or Crow noble to win without her even with making the perfect arguments... Which is untrue, you don't need them. How you respond to the things to do with Anora matters much more than pretty much the entire fanbase thinks. That, in effect, means you have even more wiggle room for freedom than everyone says you do. No one says you can't win without her support, that's true. Everyone says you can't with without her support and without the extra nobles, that's false.

 

What I said was exactly on topic and was a good point. You just don't like that you completely misunderstood my intent with that post.

You're not getting it. No one is say you need the crow noble or Vaughan to do it. We're only taking about using the evidence.  Your statement has nothing to do with this argument. Reread the last 2 pages.

[robertthebard]

No, they do. Sorta. Everyone thinks you need Vaughan or Crow noble to win without her even with making the perfect arguments... Which is untrue, you don't need them. How you respond to the things to do with Anora matters much more than pretty much the entire fanbase thinks. That, in effect, means you have even more wiggle room for freedom than everyone says you do. No one says you can't win without her support, that's true. Everyone says you can't with without her support and without the extra nobles, that's false.
 
What I said was exactly on topic and was a good point. You just don't like that you completely misunderstood my intent with that post.

That's interesting and all, and I'm going to let you finish, but it's off topic to our off topic discussion. The OP made the claim that the Nobles in Ferelden were all about honor, so I told him he should try using selling the elves as slaves to Tevinter in the Landsmeet. As you can see, and even stated yourself, using the elves in the Landsmeet is a Bad Thing^TM. It seems to me if they were about honor and loyalty to Ferelden, then dealing with Tevinter should be another Bad Thing^TM, and cost Loghain the Landsmeet. As we can see, it doesn't.

[andy6915]

That's interesting and all, and I'm going to let you finish, but it's off topic to our off topic discussion. The OP made the claim that the Nobles in Ferelden were all about honor, so I told him he should try using selling the elves as slaves to Tevinter in the Landsmeet. As you can see, and even stated yourself, using the elves in the Landsmeet is a Bad Thing^TM. It seems to me if they were about honor and loyalty to Ferelden, then dealing with Tevinter should be another Bad Thing^TM, and cost Loghain the Landsmeet. As we can see, it doesn't.

 

The overall point was people trying to say the Landsmeet had no more freedom than the empress quest, I argue that point with an actual example... And it's off topic? Your logic is broken.

[leaguer of one]

That's interesting and all, and I'm going to let you finish, but it's off topic to our off topic discussion. The OP made the claim that the Nobles in Ferelden were all about honor, so I told him he should try using selling the elves as slaves to Tevinter in the Landsmeet. As you can see, and even stated yourself, using the elves in the Landsmeet is a Bad Thing^TM. It seems to me if they were about honor and loyalty to Ferelden, then dealing with Tevinter should be another Bad Thing^TM, and cost Loghain the Landsmeet. As we can see, it doesn't.

Exactly, no one was ever talking about the Crow noble or  Vaughan. The entire argument was about the evidence.

[andy6915]

Exactly, no one was ever talking about the Crow noble or  Vaughan. The entire argument was about the evidence.

 

Except not really.

 

"Landsmeet quest is no better when it comes to freedom"

 

"Actually it is in some ways"

 

"That's off topic"

 

[andy6915]

And before you say that wasn't the start, here's proof. This post started the entire argument about the landsmeet, this post was what turned into the one about Ferelden honor. It was off topic to back this post up with more evidence? Yeah right.

 

 

 

 

Yes, you get 3 outcomes with some variations and decide who rules, but not multiple paths to get there. The DAO Landsmeet also gives you many outcomes but also different paths with many variations along the line.
 
- Preliminary quests to prepare and make your case, find evidence, talk to the nobles, do favors, rescue the queen and ally with her (or not) and so on.
- You can win the landsmeet with evidence and diplomacy, even gives you a nice bonus ability point.
- You can lose because you don't have evidence or picked wrong answers but it's still possible to complete the quest after the fight and raising some ruckus.
- You can lose on purpose, maybe traded the evidence and took Caladrius's deal, warden walks in and takes a swing at Loghain with no evidence, no queen support, you can even insult ferelden traditions by proposing your dog for the duel. You still complete the quest.Why? Because you are The Warden and not that scrubby looking dude who sells chewed gloves near Lake Calenhad.
 
And please don't tell me Ferelden is some backwater country because it's really not. They already defeated Orlais in the past. Orlais just thinks it's a backwater country. And the ferelden nobles are actually harder to win over because they value actual values like loyalty, honor, defending the nation. They don't care for masks and nonsense.
 
The Landsmeet is how you do RPG quests , WHWM is how you should not.

[leaguer of one]

The overall point was people trying to say the Landsmeet had no more freedom than the empress quest, I argue that point with an actual example... And it's off topic? Your logic is broken.

And you're wrong on that. You can side with Alistar and win, you can side with him and lose, you can side with Anora, or you can betary Alistar. That basically it. And all that is does with 2 side quest, 2 peices of evidence and the use of the dialogue tree.

 

With the ball, you can control Celene , Barla and Gespard, kill Celene and give control to Barla or Gespard, , Have Celene rule with Barla or Gespard, or celene rules alone.And all that is based on the secrets you find during the ball. Added how they treat you after the ball is based on your court favor.

[leaguer of one]

Except not really.

 

"Landsmeet quest is no better when it comes to freedom"

 

"Actually it is in some ways"

 

"That's off topic"

 

We're in that are people taking about  Vaughan and the crow noble?

[andy6915]

And you're wrong on that. You can side with Alistar and win, you can side with him and lose, you can side with Anora, or you can betary Alistar. That basically it. And all that is does with 2 side quest, 2 peices of evidence and the use of the dialogue tree.

 

With the ball, you can control Celene , Barla and Gespard, kill Celene and give control to Barla or Gespard, , Have Celene rule with Barla or Gespard, or celene rules alone.And all that is based on the secrets you find during the ball. Added how they treat you after the ball is based on your court favor.

 

I didn't say which quest is truly better or even that one actually has more legit freedom, I merely backed a single point of his up. That point being the quest has even more freedom than it's conventionally thought to have. I do that sometimes, stay out of the overall argument but add little details people get wrong or don't know about while still mostly staying out of it.

 

Disagree with that if you want, but don't try to accuse that point of being off topic.

[leaguer of one]

And before you say that wasn't the start, here's proof. This post started the entire argument about the landsmeet, this post was what turned into the one about Ferelden honor. It was off topic to back this post up with more evidence? Yeah right.

And now you need to read the post after this that say you can't do it using the slaver evidence with out Anora's support. Not one thing there is say you can't win with out her support.

[leaguer of one]

I didn't say which quest is truly better or even that one actually has more legit freedom, I merely backed a single point of his up. That point being the quest has even more freedom than it's conventionally thought to have. I do that sometimes, stay out of the overall argument but add little details people get wrong or don't know about while still mostly staying out of it.

 

Disagree with that if you want, but don't try to accuse that point of being off topic.

But it doesn't. The ball quest results is based on what you find and what you do. The landsmeet quest is based on what you do  and who you side with.

[Magdalena11]

I don't get all the people complaining about the timer. It's pretty darn forgiving and earning approval back is ridiculously easy.

It's not really the timer, nor is it the approval.  After half a dozen times through, I'm at 100 for most of the quest.  The point is that while a heightened level of stress is fun and adds excitement to the game, if there are so many factors adding to player stress that that section of the game becomes nearly unenjoyable, it's too much.  If it was a side quest, I'd just skip it.  If there was more ambient light to navigate by, or if the quest map actually depicted the Servants' Quarters in a useful way, like one in which the walls corresponded to the markings on the map, I wouldn't be getting trapped in one corner after another in the dark while the clock counted down, and I'd probably appreciate it more.  Also, can someone please explain to me why the companion who can't follow me up a staircase and leaves me stranded alone to fight the baddies is always standing exactly in the door I need to go through or in front of the only way out of the corner I'm trapped in.  I think it's on purpose.  Regardless,  here's what I do to get through the major plot quest.

 

Pick a time to do it when I'm going to be alone in the house.  There's no way I'll get through it if my partner's asking what's wrong every time I utter a long string of profanity.  Talking to a real person while a stupid game clock is ticking is very stressful.

 

Make sure I've got everything I need right in front of me so I'm not dying of thirst while trying to remember where that last halla is supposed to be.

 

Search every 4 steps and pause immediately, then check the room while paused for glowing stuff, then check the map to see if I've been here before, then check the map to make sure I haven't managed to turn myself around again, then walk another 4 steps and repeat.

 

Forget about the official strategy guide.  It wasn't entirely useful to start and they've changed things.  Now I save and back out and check the wiki several times during each portion of the quest.

 

Accept the fact that the best I'll be able to do is get through it.  I'll get loot.  Orlais will have a ruler.  When I mess up and get the set of side quests I didn't want, it's not the end of the world.  The best part of the whole thing is that I don't have to do it again.