125 réponses à ce sujet

[yarpenthemad21]

Because they don't have the gear/promo/and hours to grind? Tell medallion how hard the game is on perilous for him....

Many of those Pugs suck even they have dragon weapons or other high end gear.
Promotions "start" to make difference when you have maybe 100 of it, not between 20 or 30.

If some ppl here have too much time to spend it one game it's their problem. I don't have problem with promotions. Grinding and farming for ages to get more "power" and after that whining that "I'm too strong" is pretty much stupid.

What I know for sure is there are many player which really sucks. It's a matter of poor reflex, bad movement, bad build, bad awareness, lack of knowledge about enemies, map and attacks. I don't care what of this you call "skill", what I care is that for the 95% of pug matches I need to carry those PuGs to the end. With stats around 40.

ME3MP was the same. Some of noobs even was good at aiming. Kids in general tend to play fps games better. But they suck so badly with weapon choice, build choice, class choice and tactic choice they still was just a bad players. They skilled shooting won't help them at all.

[ParthianShotX]

What I know for sure is there are many player which really sucks. It's a matter of poor reflex, bad movement, bad build, bad awareness, lack of knowledge about enemies, map and attacks. I don't care what of this you call "skill", what I care is that for the 95% of pug matches I need to carry those PuGs to the end. With stats around 40.

 

My aim is as bad as my judgment.   

[DrakeHasNoFlow]

Many of those Pugs suck even they have dragon weapons or other high end gear.Promotions "start" to make difference when you have maybe 100 of it, not between 20 or 30.If some ppl here have too much time to spend it one game it's their problem. I don't have problem with promotions. Grinding and farming for ages to get more "power" and after that whining that "I'm too strong" is pretty much stupid.What I know for sure is there are many player which really sucks. It's a matter of poor reflex, bad movement, bad build, bad awareness, lack of knowledge about enemies, map and attacks. I don't care what of this you call "skill", what I care is that for the 95% of pug matches I need to carry those PuGs to the end. With stats around 40.ME3MP was the same. Some of noobs even was good at aiming. Kids in general tend to play fps games better. But they suck so badly with weapon choice, build choice, class choice and tactic choice they still was just a bad players. They skilled shooting won't help them at all.

Don't compare me3mp to damp, both completely different genres. If you put two similar skilled players in damp with the same high bis gear, but one has more promotions in a similar environment the edge definitely goes to the one with more promotions. This game has auto tracking/and aiming. Headshots don't exist in damp either nor does a stat progression system.

Sure, a casual can completely flub up a build/decision making/poor los but some classes somewhat negate that ala AW and mages. Is their skill in using some classes like rogues somewhat regardless of promotions? Yes, but would someone really want to get to that point with their constitution and cunning to negate their lack of health and defense? Is that skill or time allotted with a static based a.I., whereby you get stronger and the a.I. doesn't?

[DrKilledbyDeath]

I don't know why people expect the majority of others to be good at video games. Most people just pick up a game every now and then and don't invest a ton of time into it. If someone doesn't get the skill trees and just fills up every skill they have access to with any available point, sure it'll make a crappy build, but I'm sure they don't care. The lot of you that are complaining about how people suck are like the guy on the company softball team that is screaming at the receptionist for striking out when everyone else is there to just have fun. People don't want to play with you because you take a GAME way too seriously.

[daima17]

After playing a bit more intensively this last few weeks (I am still a scrub who has almost no promotes), I got some good stuffs : staff of the dragon, bow of the dragon for example and even perilous become simple now. Before getting that, with crappy stuffs, threatening was somehow harder than perilous. I dont want to imagine how easy it would be with lots of promotes or all the epic accessories.

 

What is crap too with gear dependant difficulty is that a level one with good stuffs is much much better than a level 20 of the same class with bad stuffs. They should do the same thing than in SP, giving minimum level required to use such or such weapon. A weapon of the dragon and all overpowered epics should be only for the people at level 20.

The multiplayer is fun and all but it has no much depth gameplay wise because of this.

 

I think if they implement a new difficulty, it should be something a new fresh clean state with perilous difficulty but without promotes and without overpowered stuffs or epic weapons/accessories, like heal on kill > 10%. And each time you promote you climb the rank as your epeen but the game should become harder too. For example, after each promotion, enemies could get +1 level making the game harder and harder  ... and not easier and easier as it is now. And they should give each faction some way to take away the barriers easily so no invincible team with only a decent virtuoso/keeper or solo AW possible.

[Laforgus]

I wouldn't call it skill per se, it is more about experience and understanding of game mechanics.

 

Of course, we repeat the same thing over and over with 3 x 3 different setups for months , then claim to be pros.

 

Is like giving the "Medal of Delivery Excellency"  to a Pizza delivery guy after 10 years of doing the same routes.

[Laforgus]

So if the game is that easy, no skill required why pugs fail so bad?

Lack of communication, coordination, team play, most of time a good leadership which in the most cases is some one with good memory of every map's event.

 

Mostly everyone play like not caring for the rest, more than their own skin.

 

Last and not least, Pugs doesn't always find a good host for them. they play wherever they fall either for lack of people in the area or back connection issues.

[yarpenthemad21]

Don't compare me3mp to damp, both completely different genres. If you put two similar skilled players in damp with the same high bis gear, but one has more promotions in a similar environment the edge definitely goes to the one with more promotions. This game has auto tracking/and aiming. Headshots don't exist in damp either nor does a stat progression system.

Sure, a casual can completely flub up a build/decision making/poor los but some classes somewhat negate that ala AW and mages. Is their skill in using some classes like rogues somewhat regardless of promotions? Yes, but would someone really want to get to that point with their constitution and cunning to negate their lack of health and defense? Is that skill or time allotted with a static based a.I., whereby you get stronger and the a.I. doesn't?

There aren't that different really if you think about it more.
Firstly promotions changed a lot in terms of builds and how we use classes. Instead of ME3MP only 20s levels we have constant leveling. This changes a lot, mostly in builds because you want to make builds viable faster.
So as in ME3MP build wise you use kit at 100% of it's potential all the time. Many of players want to skip threatening in leveling process and it's not that easy to be useful as 1 level on perilous.
Second aiming wasn't that important in me3mp as ppl think. Many kits were made around abilities. Headshots in most cases was just for show off, boss units and those with high enough hp to make those headshot matter can't be even headshoted.
+ you could always use a gun like claymore. or this electric shotgun, or harrier and just blow enemies with high dps weapon or hard hitting claymore
If you think about what was important in manual way it was reload cancel.
And also if you think about DLC to ME3MP I would state that every new dlc just made ME3MP even less as a shooter. Classes made around melee fight, those ninjas, support class, engi with grenades etc. Platinum difficulty which nerfed even more "headshots" because of huge amount of boss units just immune to this.
If I want to compare what type of skill in aiming is needed for ME3MP compared to even stupid battlefield it's not even the same planet.
In that manner DAI is a game not made around aiming, it's true. But it's made around battle awareness in the same way as ME3MP after few dlc. Bad players just spam skills at random. Good players know how to use CC skills, how prime combos so party members have more chance for detonations, they know when to "save" detonators and how to use them.
ME3MP at start was a shooter. To be effective on gold, best in most cases was to use some cloak kit with hard hitter. Aiming was needed for efficient killing. But with every new dlc and changes we get more and more classes made around abilities. We even get soldiers made around reduced recoil and other stuff. We even have a freaking Krogan with massive hammer. After some time shooting was just for fun. Just to do something in between abilities.

[Cryos_Feron]

There aren't that different really if you think about it more.
Firstly promotions changed a lot in terms of builds and how we use classes. Instead of ME3MP only 20s levels we have constant leveling. This changes a lot, mostly in builds because you want to make builds viable faster.
So as in ME3MP build wise you use kit at 100% of it's potential all the time. Many of players want to skip threatening in leveling process and it's not that easy to be useful as 1 level on perilous.
Second aiming wasn't that important in me3mp as ppl think. Many kits were made around abilities. Headshots in most cases was just for show off, boss units and those with high enough hp to make those headshot matter can't be even headshoted.
+ you could always use a gun like claymore. or this electric shotgun, or harrier and just blow enemies with high dps weapon or hard hitting claymore
If you think about what was important in manual way it was reload cancel.
And also if you think about DLC to ME3MP I would state that every new dlc just made ME3MP even less as a shooter. Classes made around melee fight, those ninjas, support class, engi with grenades etc. Platinum difficulty which nerfed even more "headshots" because of huge amount of boss units just immune to this.
If I want to compare what type of skill in aiming is needed for ME3MP compared to even stupid battlefield it's not even the same planet.
In that manner DAI is a game not made around aiming, it's true. But it's made around battle awareness in the same way as ME3MP after few dlc. Bad players just spam skills at random. Good players know how to use CC skills, how prime combos so party members have more chance for detonations, they know when to "save" detonators and how to use them.
ME3MP at start was a shooter. To be effective on gold, best in most cases was to use some cloak kit with hard hitter. Aiming was needed for efficient killing. But with every new dlc and changes we get more and more classes made around abilities. We even get soldiers made around reduced recoil and other stuff. We even have a freaking Krogan with massive hammer. After some time shooting was just for fun. Just to do something in between abilities.

the point is:

if you wanted to use your skills, you had your options to do so
(for example: you could use an incredible fast character with 0 points in fitness and a very exact gun)

OR you just as well could choose to use EDI with the Reegar Carbine.... ;-)

it was your decision to make.

[Cryos_Feron]

... and people in your lobby would know what you are doing.

let's face it: we are human beings and
receiving credit isn't something we hate

[yarpenthemad21]

the point is:

if you wanted to use your skills, you had your options to do so
(for example: you could use an incredible fast character with 0 points in fitness and a very exact gun)

OR you just as well could choose to use EDI with the Reegar Carbine.... ;-)

it was your decision to make.

I would say more like "you could play with less viable kit".
At start drell was sort of this. Low barrier, average skills kit. Yes there were players who could solo with it. Yes there were players who could be very effective with this kit.
But on the hand the same players could use different kit. Better one. And in overall be way more effective.

You know. You can climb Mount Everest being naked in the middle of winter. You can climb it with oxygen and newest gear. Or you can just take some helicopter and fly at top.
Depending on it what is your goal either first approach is just a "godly" skills or just waste of time and effort. For many ppl doing match fast and without much trouble is a main goal. For them this lag sensitive, squishy drell isn't best choice for the match.

[DrakeHasNoFlow]

I don't know why people expect the majority of others to be good at video games. Most people just pick up a game every now and then and don't invest a ton of time into it. If someone doesn't get the skill trees and just fills up every skill they have access to with any available point, sure it'll make a crappy build, but I'm sure they don't care. The lot of you that are complaining about how people suck are like the guy on the company softball team that is screaming at the receptionist for striking out when everyone else is there to just have fun. People don't want to play with you because you take a GAME way too seriously.

It's never the game at fault, stats are just the finishing touch, and people need to l2p in a pve.

[sonofbarak]

If it not skill to play this game. Why all the complaints just promote .

[Texasmotiv]

Man it's tiresome to listen to people comparing DAIMP to ME3MP constantly. They are different games, sure there are some similarities but c'mon give it a rest already.

Shooters require a different set of abilities than RPGs. This should not be a shock to anyone. Just like whack a mole requires different abilities than stratego. Many RPGs reward someone's understanding of the game mechanics + grinding for items or levels to tip the math in your favor. A shooter may do that (like me3) but at its core, its very reflexive and action oriented as would be expected from a shooter.

That said, there are some gaps in DAIMP's design in regards to content and scaling. But it is too early to count it out just yet I think.

[Yumi]

I usually don't go for my 50% HoK setup b/c too easymode., sometimes it is fun to face roll perilous with a pug. I usually roll with Crit % or Crit damage or one of numerous other setups I like to use from time to time. I'm not at Promotions God Mode, but I have friends who are. If you've got 60-90 in Con/cunning/willpower plus OP weapons and armor upgrades, the game get lolzy real fast.

[Yumi]

Of course, we repeat the same thing over and over with 3 x 3 different setups for months , then claim to be pros.

Is like giving the "Medal of Delivery Excellency" to a Pizza delivery guy after 10 years of doing the same routes.

Bro, 10 years of constantly delivering pizza definitely qualifies for a medal of excellency. (Not joking)

[Cryos_Feron]

I would say more like "you could play with less viable kit".
 

 

Not for me.

 

Please answer following question:

 

In the long run, what is more fun:

1. shooting balls from a ladder, next to the basket

2. shooting balls from a 3 point distance

 

I would never ever have played 1000+ hours with the Reegar Carbine.

 

This was regarding the fun aspect.

 

 

 

Now, regarding the viability of a kit- aspect:

 

With my glass-cannon I died a million times at the beginning.

 

I HAD to learn:

• How long exactly I can stand in the open
• The exact enemie's movements
• Their exact shooting frequencies
• Their vulnerabilities

my aim HAD to get better - and it got better.

 

I got used to effectively dodge and hide

 

And after a couple of hundred hours.... oh wonder:

I am scoring higher than I would have with those "viable" kits. At least I think so ;-)

 

I am not saying I am the best of all players. But I am definitely way better now 

than I would have been with what you might call the "most viable kit".

 

Coming back to my example at the beginning:

The 3-point shot gets you 3 points. So there might come the point when you score more 

than the guy who shoots the ball from the ladder next to the basket.

What you said about headshots is not exactly true. Because I am constantly shooting Banshees in the head now

which brings them down way faster. The mooks don't require headshots to die so you only need 20+ headshots to 

improve your result greatly. And after one of the last patches, easy targets like Primes etc. are also vulneratble to headshots again.

[Shadohz]

Is this conversation really happening? With DA3MP of all the games in the history of the gaming industry to use as your talking point?

I can't...

[Beerfish]

Generally people that have to carry other players all the time are less skilled at the over all concept of playing the game.  Same thing for ME3mp.  If you have to carry all the time then you are doing something wrong.  You are using the false thought that 'I am the best player thus I have to go kill all things'.  You are a speed runner when the rest of the group is opening chest rooms.

 

In this game, just like in ME3mp the very best players actually kept inferior team mates alive, play down to their level speed wise and helped them learn the game.  The serial 'carriers' abandon the team at the 1st sign of a problem, let em all die and then finish the level as if they were playing solo.  A far easier thing to do than to tailor your game to the players you are with, even if you think they are dunder heads.

 

Yeah you have to risk your ass at times and at times the group will fail as a result but if you really are good you should be able to keep some of your team standing and contributing.

[llandwynwyn]

Generally people that have to carry other players all the time are less skilled at the over all concept of playing the game.  Same thing for ME3mp.  If you have to carry all the time then you are doing something wrong.  You are using the false thought that 'I am the best player thus I have to go kill all things'.  You are a speed runner when the rest of the group is opening chest rooms.

 

In this game, just like in ME3mp the very best players actually kept inferior team mates alive, play down to their level speed wise and helped them learn the game.  The serial 'carriers' abandon the team at the 1st sign of a problem, let em all die and then finish the level as if they were playing solo.  A far easier thing to do than to tailor your game to the players you are with, even if you think they are dunder heads.

 

Yeah you have to risk your ass at times and at times the group will fail as a result but if you really are good you should be able to keep some of your team standing and contributing.

 

You are talking out of your arse. Carrying a game aka playing as a beast killing thing fast to save your time&get more XP and taking care of your team could be done beautifully in ME, it didn't make you a bad player or lousy team player at all. I carried many matches, while helping pugs succeed when they were having trouble.

Now DAI....

[Drasca]

You know. You can climb Mount Everest being naked in the middle of winter. You can climb it with oxygen and newest gear. Or you can just take some helicopter and fly at top.
Depending on it what is your goal either first approach is just a "godly" skills or just waste of time and effort. For many ppl doing match fast and without much trouble is a main goal. For them this lag sensitive, squishy drell isn't best choice for the match.

 

I'd want to fly an Iron man suit, obviously.

[Drasca]

Second aiming wasn't that important in me3mp as ppl think. Many kits were made around abilities. Headshots in most cases was just for show off, boss units and those with high enough hp to make those headshot matter can't be even headshoted.

 

LOL I'd nearly forgotten about this. So much ranting about 'aiming' in ME3 shooters being the epitome of skill yet, ME3 was all about auto-aim and for consoles 30 fps difficulty (enemy accuracy) scaled to fps. i.e. taking half the damage 60 fps players would (or less).

 

There were plenty of other factors for skill. They had nothing to do with aiming and everything to do with situational awareness and knowing the kit / appriorate resopnses to changing conditions, the same elements in DAMp.

[apocalypse_owl]

LOL I'd nearly forgotten about this. So much ranting about 'aiming' in ME3 shooters being the epitome of skill yet, ME3 was all about auto-aim and for consoles 30 fps difficulty (enemy accuracy) scaled to fps. i.e. taking half the damage 60 fps players would (or less).

 

There were plenty of other factors for skill. They had nothing to do with aiming and everything to do with situational awareness and knowing the kit / appriorate resopnses to changing conditions, the same elements in DAMp.

 

ME3 had no auto aim on PC. I also find it hilarious that you say mass effect 3 took no skill but you still modified your game files to cheat to win at it. 

 

There is absolutely no need to have situational awareness or strategy in DAIMP when your promotions and gear enable you to blast through zones without breaking a sweat. 

[Sulaco_7]

One thing I liked about me3mp, it had a power ceiling.  

 

Once you maxed your manifest, you could not get anymore powerful.

 

I know many would disagree, but I wish damp has a power ceiling as well.  It worked out well for me3mp.

[HeroicMass]

Most bosses in MEMP were headshots capable. Not sure where you got that info