73 réponses à ce sujet

[Laughing_Man]

It has to be. I'd love to see some results, but at this stage, it seems that DLC is what will be provided, not changes to core gameplay mechanics.

It's clear this 'design choice' of 8 skills only is not going to change. IIRC, early on, there was some talk of it being intended to make the game more tactical. That is clearly a huge load of the proverbial. It does nothing for tactics beyond arbitrarily limiting the player. Perhaps to try and hide the fact that there are so few spells? And yet for some reason, it's clear the game was designed and balanced to be played with FF off; it even defaults to this on nightmare. Lol, tactics. This rant could go on and on.

Tl;DR 8 skill limit is not going to change, and we're not going to be given a reason why.

 

Well, I'm not simply going to lower my head in the face of a decision from the almighty gods of the universe.

 

I mean, this was part of the reason I lost interest rather early in playing DA:I, a game that by all rights should have had a longer shelf-life.

At the very least I can point out the things that I think made it worse.

 

I know that realistically these things are not going to be fixed for DA:I, but it may not return for the next game if they understand that people didn't like some of their design decisions.

[Iakus]

I don't mind that they diminished the mage's spells - I just mind which spells they diminished.  

 

Three schools of "Blast with X" spells... really?  

 

Any mage I play - is not a mindless blaster.  So I lamented three lists from one school.

 

There should have been four lists - one from each school.  

 

It wasn't the mechanics that were dumbed down - but the actual mages themselves to mere artillery. 

My Surana from DAO was a spirit/entropy specialist.  Almost entirely support-based.

 

Can't do anything even in the same neighborhood in DAI.  It's all blast/blast/blast 

[The Baconer]

Best spell in the franchise: Force Field from Origins.

 

Extraordinarily simple in function, yet with an astonishing number of useful applications. We need more spells like this.

[Kakistos_]

Well, I'm not simply going to lower my head in the face in the face of a decision from the almighty gods of the universe.

 

I mean, this was part of the reason I lost interest rather early in playing DA:I, a game that by all rights should have had a longer shelf-life.

At the very least I can point out the things that I think made it worse.

 

I know that realistically these things are not going to be fixed for DA:I, but it may not return for the next game if they understand that people didn't like some of their design decisions.

THANK YOU and I agree, things are sure not to change unless we let our complaints and disappointments known. If I'm not mistaken there was talk about including Blood Magic in DLC. Nothing solid. If there ever was a time to change the dumbed down magic system that no one likes it would be then. And they really wouldn't have to change that much. As I stated earlier Flashfire is basically Horror and Ice Wall is Glyph of Repulsion. The Spells we all miss are right there in lame form. The addition of Keeper Magic and sustained spells would also be greatly appreciated. I don't know if they will change magic but they COULD and SHOULD. Here's hoping.

[Laughing_Man]

The funny (or rather sad) thing is, I think about all the amazing ways in which they could have tied the anchor itself to gameplay, even non mage classes could have had fade-flavoured abilities because of the anchor, essentially a specialized Inquisitor-classes.

 

As a mage, and maybe as non mage as well, opening a connection to the fade for a kind of "supercharged" state where spells or abilities cost no Mana and are buffed, a veriaty of fade-enhanced strikes and movement abilities, specialized mana-heavy spells (because you have an infinite well of mana within reach...), and more.

 

What I'm saying is that the entire play-style should have been influenced by the power of the anchor. Seems like wasted potential otherwise.

 

Hell, an entire summoning tree could have been tied to the anchor, perhaps as something extra, open to all classes?

(Perhaps even tied and influenced to a kind of "light-side" / "dark-side" meter, which would entice different types of fade dwellers to come to your help)

 

It could have been really awesome, could have made the PC actually stand out in his own fighting style and power, instead of getting the same spec and style as the followers.

[Rawgrim]

The rogues and warriors feel more like mages than mages do in this game.

[Gya]

Well, I'm not simply going to lower my head in the face in the face of a decision from the almighty gods of the universe.

 

I mean, this was part of the reason I lost interest rather early in playing DA:I, a game that by all rights should have had a longer shelf-life.

At the very least I can point out the things that I think made it worse.

 

I know that realistically these things are not going to be fixed for DA:I, but it may not return for the next game if they understand that people didn't like some of their design decisions.

 

Well, I've done a fair amount of complaining about magic in this game, but it gets to the point where I might as well just copy and paste my posts. I hope that some of this feedback actually reaches anyone who can implement a change for DA4, but who knows if that's the case? For all we know, everyone in BW is sitting in front of a big GOTY poster thinking that everything about this game is amazing.

[LinksOcarina]

How so? Lore matches gameplay pretty well in Elder Scroll games that I've played, and I don't think lore or gameplay are a mess in that series.

 

It was a complete mess in that series.

 

Dwemer artifacts made of a powerful, unknown metal, found in ruins and salvageable by parts and artifacts...yet Glass and Orc armor are stronger and more expensive than rare, Dwemer plate,I scoff at that each time.

 

That is a bare bones example. Elder Scrolls is good at blending some semblance of a world in there, but its very surface. Magical schools have been switched out and removed for a long time in Elder Scrolls, remember Mysticism? We also have to take into account the loss of stat blocks after Skyrim came out, you now had barely any statistics and corresponding spells to go with it.

 

Which is admittingly a positive, since tying mechanics to stats or something tangible always annoyed me. Alignments in tabletop games are extremely problematic because of it.

 

Also, I need to always point out the Warp in the West and the fact that Elder Scrolls 3 is made superfluous since Vvardenfell is destroyed anyway less than 70 years later. So their lore is always a mess in the end since they pretty much say everything is canonical, even if it contradicts things. 

[In Exile]

The rogues and warriors feel more like mages than mages do in this game.

 

I don't really see it. As completely underwhelming as mages are compared to DA2 (IMO, they weren't all that impressive in DA:O either, just in a different way, though they were more akin to D&D mages) the rogues/warriors were still more mundane. 

 

What I can't wrap my head around is the removal of large AOE cones - whether for damage or CC. It's one thing to have a tight AOE cone for the KE - you need that as a bit of a balancing act - but for a Rift Mage? 

[Laughing_Man]

I don't really see it. As completely underwhelming as mages are compared to DA2 (IMO, they weren't all that impressive in DA:O either, just in a different way, though they were more akin to D&D mages) the rogues/warriors were still more mundane. 

 

What I can't wrap my head around is the removal of large AOE cones - whether for damage or CC. It's one thing to have a tight AOE cone for the KE - you need that as a bit of a balancing act - but for a Rift Mage? 

 

Templar does not feel like a mage with the combo WoH + Spell Purge?

Tempest is a mage that uses magic from bottles, the ice armor feels very mage-y, and 1000 cuts is like the wrath of an old god...

And then we have Reaver with the bloody AoE circle, Champion summoning illusions with "line in the sand", Artificier teleporting with thieves' lantern, etc.

 

But yeah, magic feels castrated and underwhelming. No doubt about that.

[Salaya]

Yeah... this was, by far, my worst problem with DA:I. I think I would have enjoyed the game a lot more if the magic schools were not so drastically changed. I felt my mage was simply some kind of "blocker", constantly inducing status abnormalities or side effects -and not dealing too much damage; at least, not until you reach a decent level-.

 

I really missed the powerful/versatile versions from DA:O. Even the mages from DA2 felt way more coherent with my DA mages idea. 

[Laughing_Man]

Yeah... this was, by far, my worst problem with DA:I. I think I would have enjoyed the game a lot more if the magic schools were not so drastically changed. I felt my mage was simply some kind of "blocker", constantly inducing status abnormalities or side effects -and not dealing too much damage; at least, not until you reach a decent level-.

 

I really missed the powerful/versatile versions from DA:O. Even the mages from DA2 felt way more coherent with my DA mages idea. 

 

No argument here.

 

Enemy mages were also extremely dumbed down.

 

Venatory Commander is arguably the easiest boss on MP. Regular enemy mages are a joke.

 

In DA:O when you opened the door to a room with a few enemy mages inside and a second later saw a trio of fireballs flying your way, you actually felt threatened.

 

In DA:I enemy mages are an annoyance at most.

[Rekkampum]

The spell combinations and schools are just total nonsense, and the spell selection is really underwhelming. Everything is glyph based, which is cool and all, but they're missing a lot of the clever spells they created with DA2 and largely have no AOE or CC abilities. 

 

Not to mention no tactical wheel so you literally depend on the skills you have mapped and nothing else.

[TheEnigmousPretentiator]

Considering the lore; mages should be OP.

The Templar's ability to resist and dispel mages and Tevinter getting owned by the Qunari suggest mages are not OP.

[TheEnigmousPretentiator]

How so? Lore matches gameplay pretty well in Elder Scroll games that I've played, and I don't think lore or gameplay are a mess in that series.

Apologies for the double post, mods.

I suggest reading the FAQ section in teslore on reddit. Elder Scrolls game mechanics and lore do not represent each other very well in many cases, and the folks at teslore have to remind people of that, a lot. And TES lore is a mess. Douglass Goodall, back in 2001, admitted staying consistent is difficult, and it has only gotten messier since then as they retcon things as the games are released.

Fans having to come up with various head-canons to explain away contradictions and fuzzy areas (like why dragons were inconsequential outside of Skyrim following TES V's release when dragons were a footnote in the lore and not the cause of some Dragon War prior to), the devs making up the 'Dragon Break' to make every ending in Daggerfall canon and now being a tactic to hand-wave away inconsistent outcomes wherever they arise, and CHIM being used to explain why Cyrodiil had a vanilla fantasy setting instead being the seat of a jungle empire as described in lore prior to Oblivion do not suggest a tidy series.

The cultural lore is not particularly extensive either, for a series whose lore has been around since 1996. The metaphysical lore is interesting, however.

And I do admit I am biased as I have a growing dislike for the series as of late.

[GreatBlueHeron]

I understand, I really do. Blame it on the game being developed and designed first and foremost for the consoles.

Lol, no. If that was the case, then we wouldn't have had the variety we did in origins. I miss having all powers available. It would have been nothing for them to include the power wheel in this game. This game was simplified for a general audience.

[Sunnie]

Lol, no. If that was the case, then we wouldn't have had the variety we did in origins. I miss having all powers available. It would have been nothing for them to include the power wheel in this game. This game was simplified for a general audience.

Origins wasn't designed first for Consoles, it was adapted to consoles (which is one reason there was a public tool set for it).

DA2 was designed with consoles in mind and look what happened, dumbed down to the max super ninja action. Inq was designed foremost for a controller, KBM controls were an afterthought. Tactical combat in Origins reflected the amount of control we had due to it's PC centric design.

[Thibax]

Fire, Ice, Thunder, Nature, Spirit, Force, Life, Death, Blood, Arcane

 

Is hard to bring all this back?

 

I don't want that Dragon Age becomes a generic rpg just with Fire / Ice / Thunder spells. We love Dragon Age, Bioware don't let this happen, please!

 

 

A Dragon Age game with a hundred spells with a lot of combinations and diversity of mages.

 

And talents for rogues and warriors too. 

 

[Inverse_Twilight]

While I agree that the mage spells have been simplified in DAI, I don't really believe that it is a bad thing. I have lots of fun playing as a mage and I love all the spell combos that you can do. My favorite has got to be Lightning cage with a Fire Mine in the middle, they try to leave, then get blown up when they get drawn back to the middle. I also really like the mage specializations in Inquisition.

I do really miss Crushing Prison from DA2 and Origins though. That was my favorite single target ability and my go to damage spell for boss fights.

[Thibax]

I would like to have Rift Mage and Knight-Enchanter abilities in my mage, but in DAI we can't have two specs.

 

My spiritual mage is lost inside the Fade.

 

Bioware, can you save him? 

[Cobra's_back]

True that. But ME3 controls didn't suffer because of dumbed down MP controls, so I am not sure that's really relevant.

 

Good point but it still makes a person wonder why they got rid of the wheel for single player. A console had access to the wheel as well. I had DA and ME games on console as well, but still used the wheel. I'm not sure why they removed the abilities from the wheel??

[Sunnie]

Good point but it still makes a person wonder why they got rid of the wheel for single player. A console had access to the wheel as well. I had DA and ME games on console as well, but still used the wheel. I'm not sure why they removed the abilities from the wheel??

Those are questions that only a very finite number of people can answer. Sadly, answers will never come.

[Cobra's_back]

Origins wasn't designed first for Consoles, it was adapted to consoles (which is one reason there was a public tool set for it).

DA2 was designed with consoles in mind and look what happened, dumbed down to the max super ninja action. Inq was designed foremost for a controller, KBM controls were an afterthought. Tactical combat in Origins reflected the amount of control we had due to it's PC centric design.

 

Makes sense but console players were able to use the wheel, and didn't have to rely on just eight buttons. Why didn't they add just add tactical combat onto the wheel along with abilities? Console players had the wheel, and if they wanted to just map abilities with the eight buttons.

[Cobra's_back]

Those are questions that only a very finite number of people can answer. Sadly, answers will never come.

 

Thanks Sunnie. You make some excellent points. I enjoy reading your post.