26 réponses à ce sujet

[VacaTonta]

this is the shortest rotation i could come up with so far, using all support songs from the left tree, i think:

 

1. song         2. song        3. song              4. song            5. song           6. song            1. song

 222>4            1>4              33>4                  3>4                 2>4                  2>4                 2>4

 Barrier          Armor     Attack Speed       Run Speed      Self-Heal        Resistances         Barrier

 

1=fire, 2=ice, 3=electric, 4=play

[yes, i play on pc]

 

so it actually would be: 22241433434242424(4444>depending on how much barrier u want to give, then start from step 2 again)

 

as u can see it starts and ends with barrier

 

I did NOT test it yet, just came up with it on paper...

anyway, I dont really follow this forum and/or this post

;-/

 

also the "names" may be wrong, I'm not totally sure, did it last night and only put down first letters like initials...so.....

 

however..u can try it out, maybe this helps some

 

have fun playing

 

vacaloca

[Headbasher]

At first i was like woah self heal how cool! but after playing him awhile its really pointless you barrier should take care of everyone  constantly.

 

I usually run barrier , attack speed , and the elemental damage one , oh and run speed when needed.

[Theghostof_timmy]

At first i was like woah self heal how cool! but after playing him awhile its really pointless you barrier should take care of everyone  constantly.

 

I usually run barrier , attack speed , and the elemental damage one , oh and run speed when needed.

Yeah, Singalong is kinda low priority for me. Barrier, attack speed, and maybe Mark of the Riff are really all you need. It pisses me off so much when virtuosos are so busy spamming random buffs they forget to barrier. 

[Bamaboy31]

My rotation usually looks like Attack Speed-> Armor buff-> Barrier -> Barrier-> Cold beats on different targets to tag until I need to refresh buffs. If the party has lost some heAlth, replace Cold Beats with heal on hit.

Being able to top the party off just makes me feel better. Reavers like it too! The elemental resistance sounds nice, but I don't play FC much, even when I do, I can't justify on losing Power chord Dispel or The cool Beats AoE craziness.

[Jebbadiah Jenkins]

At first i was like woah self heal how cool! but after playing him awhile its really pointless you barrier should take care of everyone  constantly.

 

I usually run barrier , attack speed , and the elemental damage one , oh and run speed when needed.

I totally agree. I use run speed, attack speed, mark of the rift, and barrier when needed. It's all you need. Everything else on the left defense tree is redundant and overkill.

[VacaTonta]

hey guys

first of all, i read all the comments...

 

and i have to say, this isnt really about "your" way or "your" rotation or mine...

neither is it "true" to say absolute things like: "It's all you need"

There are always situations where, for example, barrier is not needed,

because you run perilous and there's a keeper and/or an elementalist in your group...

or your strong enough to split the 4-man-group into two 2-man-teams...

clearing the whole area faster, opening doors/extra rooms faster...

getting those "supplies" while pushing further forward?

 

also, not everybody has the "best" equip and/or sufficient heal on kill, for example...

so there MAY BE a situation where someone is !!really!! thankful to you if you play that heal on HIT (and kill) song...because you don't actually need a kill

 

this is THE ONLY WAY in the game to regenerate life without actually killing an enemy - apart from potions...

 

did any of you guys think about, why there is no actual healer-class in this game? but there is barrier?

did you think about why they put in heal on KILL, but the virtuoso is the only one who can give heal on HIT?

why did they implement that into that "new class"?

 

and when i read what @herculeswill22 wrote: i really hate it when they forget to give barrier..

yeah..everyboody does...i think they should just delete the virtuoso..we already have the keeper and the elementalist..both can give barrier..the virtuoso is totally useless...

x.x

 

if u think the virtuoso is about barrier giving..forget it..just use a keeper or elementalist..their barrier cost much less mana and is far more powerful..withstanding much more damage at the same amount of mana used...

 

but i can't stop me from saying:

your name alone suggests your kind of gameplay:

"I need more power to deal more damage! If I kill everything with 1 hit, it can't deal any damage to me! I'm a genius! Why didn't I think of this before?!"

Thats called Burst-damage..and where it may be useful, needed and powerful in PvP...in PvE...if that is the case..the game is just too easy...

it is as simple as that...

if you dont have to worry about your defense systems...it is just too easy...

 

and believe you me:

I have encountered those people SO OFTEN...

I know what I'm talking about...

 

I can put it in other words: some abilities, sometimes, in some games, on some difficulties, are "overpowered" or in short: OP

that's why there is "balancing"

and everybody playing DAI knows that barrier IS powerful.

did you ever wonder why there are arcane warriors soloing stuff, but fewer katari? even though they have guard?

did you hear what they did to the AW? a so called nerf...

 

but, I - as a virtuoso - shall i just play barrier like 90 % of the time, cuz its OP, so you can deal the max damage and dont have to worry about def CDs?

and if i dont, or if i mess up my rotation, your barrier, the distance to you or one of the other 2 players, will i get flamed by you 4 being a noob while you stand in the fire so you can deal more damage?

l2p ftw, mmh?

 

yeah, maybe, maybe at this point i should really do that...but is it challenging? is it fun?

i don't think so..

 

in the loading screen in WoW it says sometimes: dont stand in the fire!

yeah, obviously..

but you wouldn't believe how many people say:

"but i can't deal damage then..so i will stay in the fire, dealing damage...I need heal..who is this noob healer who just let me die? such a boon..."

 

I really wish they would give DAI two higher difficulty levels and balance that barrier, so that "intelligent gameplay", meaning using many talents in complex situations and using efficient rotations will become necessary, and not just: spam that barrier you st(/&d virtuoso!

 

as a friend of mine once said:

I just press the 1 better than the rest!

 

my point is: everything has its need...

and if it has not..like i said before..its just too easy...

 

and this post wasnt about "my style" of playing or "your style" or "which is the best talent"

this was simply about 2 things:

1.) even though it says in the talent descriptions in-game: fire-elec-elec, for example, u can also play: elec-fire-elec or elec-elec-fire; its about the combination, NOT the order...that is an important! factor when it comes to

2.) SHORTENING your rotation, meaning pressing FEWER buttons and achieving MORE buffs at the same time, ergo giving your character more autohits, because you simply have MORE TIME to do so, because you press FEWER buttons! and - i guess you know - there is a passive talent which gives u mana back, if you autoattack...

and also, theres is another passive which increases the barrier of your group whenever you play a song...

 

so..more time to autoattack=more mana..

 

why do we need more mana?

to give more buffs..

 

why do we need more buffs?

because playing "buff"-songs also increases the barrier AND (as the name says) "buffs" the group - that's a 2-in-1-situation;

in other words: better than "just" playing the barrier-song over and over again, you play buff-songs which ALSO increase the barrier...

 

how do we achieve this?

by having more time..

 

how can we have more time?

by pressing fewer buttons...

 

so, to come to a final conclusion...this is not about what's good or needed, but about using simple mathematics to reduce the amount of buttons needed to be pressed to give as many buffs as possible and therefore giving u more time to autoattack to increase your mana-regeneration to make it possible APART from giving barrier...

 

and yes, i understand..barrier is enough..if everyone has full barrier..no one needs selfheal..but I hope i explained clearly why that is not the point of this post

 

anyways..for those trying to achieve more perfect gaming and not just the "oh, thats enough"-kind-of-style..these rotation reductions might be interesting...

 

maybe this isnt the same theorycrafting as people do in games like world of warcraft, but still I know there are people putting a lot of work into this game, for example:

 

GhoXen

http://forum.bioware...-and-mechanics/

 

I by far did NOT put even remotely that much work into this...

 

it was just a thought which became a post...

 

and this answer to your comments is only existent because the simplicity of thought of all your comments just gave me headaches

all the answers to this post had absolutely nothing to do with the point of this post at all...

x.x

 

but, again..this isnt about: "you dont need that", "I never use that..."

 

if you don't get that, you don't get what this post is about and should just play

 

222444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444

444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444

444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444

444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444

 

by doing so you can also run through perilous dragon runs...maybe just make a macro for your g15 or whatever keyboard you got, press it at the beginning and  ./sticky on that tank or DD who you like....

 

enough said for now

 

also @jebbadiah jenkins: how can a defense-support skill be overkill?

 

thats the most braindead phrasing i've read in a LONG time

 

xxx

o.o

 

 

have a nice day

[Eyecon74]

WOW, post and half.. Maybe remember that if you post on the forum people may reply, especially with a 'build' post, don't take it so personal, its people's views on how they would play the character.. I am sorry if ALL (4) of the replies give you a headache, I couldn't see anything bad said about your build in any of the replies..

 

Personally I like Attack speed but I believe there is an application and use for all the songs in the Virtuoso's playlist, I am just happy to see a Virtuoso in the group, especially one who helps out the team to successfully extract..

[yarpenthemad21]

rotation like rotation, it's not a rocket science to make some "optimal" one really.
Main problem is that armor don't work on barrier, so either buff is useless or barrier is useless.
Second Healing isn't needed when you give enough barrier + ppl tend to have heal on kill in general. This song won't rescue party from bad situation (barrier will) and it's only partially useful on dragon when you want to heal to 100% party members.
Run speed song should be used when needed, group of 4 range players don't need it but avvar needs it. Songs with resistance gives so much nothing that it doesn't even matter. Also aside from dragons (for which you should if needed use tonic) there are very few elemental attacks.

From my experience as virtuoso, support is on really 2 songs.
Barrier and attack speed.
Everything else is just a matter of awareness. Either virtuoso should keep on barrier or go offense and wipe everything.

[Theghostof_timmy]

rotation like rotation, it's not a rocket science to make some "optimal" one really.
Main problem is that armor don't work on barrier, so either buff is useless or barrier is useless.
Second Healing isn't needed when you give enough barrier + ppl tend to have heal on kill in general. This song won't rescue party from bad situation (barrier will) and it's only partially useful on dragon when you want to heal to 100% party members.
Run speed song should be used when needed, group of 4 range players don't need it but avvar needs it. Songs with resistance gives so much nothing that it doesn't even matter. Also aside from dragons (for which you should if needed use tonic) there are very few elemental attacks.

From my experience as virtuoso, support is on really 2 songs.
Barrier and attack speed.
Everything else is just a matter of awareness. Either virtuoso should keep on barrier or go offense and wipe everything.

This. Don't get your shorts in a knot, bro. When you're the only barrier class in the group, yeah, it's your job to use barrier. If others are keeping the group's barrier high, use attack speed and blast cool beats/power chord. Resistances, healing and Armor are useless in practice as long as barrier is up. Run speed is a situational, on occasion sort of thing. Wasting mana on stuff with little to no actual effect on your team's damage/survivability takes away from stuff that does.

 

edit: Also when I say I'm pissed about it, I'm not pissed about the buffs, I'm pissed that I'm dying right next to a Virtuoso because he's so fixated on buffs he didn't notice I had no barrier for like 5 seconds.

[DrKilledbyDeath]

I don't understand why people use rotations. Your rotation may work well before you start fighting but during big fights you need to be aware what the situation needs. I usually just keep barriers topped as much as I can, with attack speed in there. If we need the extra damage I can lay waste to everyone with power chord, the dispell on it is pretty helpful too. Then if my barriers drop and people take damage I get heal on hit going to top them up. 4 songs and you can carry just about any team on perilous.

[Jebbadiah Jenkins]

hey guys

first of all, i read all the comments...

 

and i have to say, this isnt really about "your" way or "your" rotation or mine...

neither is it "true" to say absolute things like: "It's all you need"

There are always situations where, for example, barrier is not needed,

because you run perilous and there's a keeper and/or an elementalist in your group...

or your strong enough to split the 4-man-group into two 2-man-teams...

clearing the whole area faster, opening doors/extra rooms faster...

getting those "supplies" while pushing further forward?

 

also, not everybody has the "best" equip and/or sufficient heal on kill, for example...

so there MAY BE a situation where someone is !!really!! thankful to you if you play that heal on HIT (and kill) song...because you don't actually need a kill

 

this is THE ONLY WAY in the game to regenerate life without actually killing an enemy - apart from potions...

 

did any of you guys think about, why there is no actual healer-class in this game? but there is barrier?

did you think about why they put in heal on KILL, but the virtuoso is the only one who can give heal on HIT?

why did they implement that into that "new class"?

 

and when i read what @herculeswill22 wrote: i really hate it when they forget to give barrier..

yeah..everyboody does...i think they should just delete the virtuoso..we already have the keeper and the elementalist..both can give barrier..the virtuoso is totally useless...

x.x

 

if u think the virtuoso is about barrier giving..forget it..just use a keeper or elementalist..their barrier cost much less mana and is far more powerful..withstanding much more damage at the same amount of mana used...

 

but i can't stop me from saying:

your name alone suggests your kind of gameplay:

"I need more power to deal more damage! If I kill everything with 1 hit, it can't deal any damage to me! I'm a genius! Why didn't I think of this before?!"

Thats called Burst-damage..and where it may be useful, needed and powerful in PvP...in PvE...if that is the case..the game is just too easy...

it is as simple as that...

if you dont have to worry about your defense systems...it is just too easy...

 

and believe you me:

I have encountered those people SO OFTEN...

I know what I'm talking about...

 

I can put it in other words: some abilities, sometimes, in some games, on some difficulties, are "overpowered" or in short: OP

that's why there is "balancing"

and everybody playing DAI knows that barrier IS powerful.

did you ever wonder why there are arcane warriors soloing stuff, but fewer katari? even though they have guard?

did you hear what they did to the AW? a so called nerf...

 

but, I - as a virtuoso - shall i just play barrier like 90 % of the time, cuz its OP, so you can deal the max damage and dont have to worry about def CDs?

and if i dont, or if i mess up my rotation, your barrier, the distance to you or one of the other 2 players, will i get flamed by you 4 being a noob while you stand in the fire so you can deal more damage?

l2p ftw, mmh?

 

yeah, maybe, maybe at this point i should really do that...but is it challenging? is it fun?

i don't think so..

 

in the loading screen in WoW it says sometimes: dont stand in the fire!

yeah, obviously..

but you wouldn't believe how many people say:

"but i can't deal damage then..so i will stay in the fire, dealing damage...I need heal..who is this noob healer who just let me die? such a boon..."

 

I really wish they would give DAI two higher difficulty levels and balance that barrier, so that "intelligent gameplay", meaning using many talents in complex situations and using efficient rotations will become necessary, and not just: spam that barrier you st(/&d virtuoso!

 

as a friend of mine once said:

I just press the 1 better than the rest!

 

my point is: everything has its need...

and if it has not..like i said before..its just too easy...

 

and this post wasnt about "my style" of playing or "your style" or "which is the best talent"

this was simply about 2 things:

1.) even though it says in the talent descriptions in-game: fire-elec-elec, for example, u can also play: elec-fire-elec or elec-elec-fire; its about the combination, NOT the order...that is an important! factor when it comes to

2.) SHORTENING your rotation, meaning pressing FEWER buttons and achieving MORE buffs at the same time, ergo giving your character more autohits, because you simply have MORE TIME to do so, because you press FEWER buttons! and - i guess you know - there is a passive talent which gives u mana back, if you autoattack...

and also, theres is another passive which increases the barrier of your group whenever you play a song...

 

so..more time to autoattack=more mana..

 

why do we need more mana?

to give more buffs..

 

why do we need more buffs?

because playing "buff"-songs also increases the barrier AND (as the name says) "buffs" the group - that's a 2-in-1-situation;

in other words: better than "just" playing the barrier-song over and over again, you play buff-songs which ALSO increase the barrier...

 

how do we achieve this?

by having more time..

 

how can we have more time?

by pressing fewer buttons...

 

so, to come to a final conclusion...this is not about what's good or needed, but about using simple mathematics to reduce the amount of buttons needed to be pressed to give as many buffs as possible and therefore giving u more time to autoattack to increase your mana-regeneration to make it possible APART from giving barrier...

 

and yes, i understand..barrier is enough..if everyone has full barrier..no one needs selfheal..but I hope i explained clearly why that is not the point of this post

 

anyways..for those trying to achieve more perfect gaming and not just the "oh, thats enough"-kind-of-style..these rotation reductions might be interesting...

 

maybe this isnt the same theorycrafting as people do in games like world of warcraft, but still I know there are people putting a lot of work into this game, for example:

 

GhoXen

http://forum.bioware...-and-mechanics/

 

I by far did NOT put even remotely that much work into this...

 

it was just a thought which became a post...

 

and this answer to your comments is only existent because the simplicity of thought of all your comments just gave me headaches

all the answers to this post had absolutely nothing to do with the point of this post at all...

x.x

 

but, again..this isnt about: "you dont need that", "I never use that..."

 

if you don't get that, you don't get what this post is about and should just play

 

222444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444

444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444

444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444

444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444

 

by doing so you can also run through perilous dragon runs...maybe just make a macro for your g15 or whatever keyboard you got, press it at the beginning and  ./sticky on that tank or DD who you like....

 

enough said for now

 

also @jebbadiah jenkins: how can a defense-support skill be overkill?

 

thats the most braindead phrasing i've read in a LONG time

 

xxx

o.o

 

 

have a nice day

 I don't normally give up on a post once I try to start reading it, but I couldn't make it through all of that rambling. Made it about 3/4 of the way and skipped to the end.

 

Braindead? LOL *facepalm

 

I can tell you from experience, the best way to support the team is buff the team and keep them alive. Barrier when needed otherwise, make the team pew pew harder.

 

All of that overkill defense crap and you'll be in the castle for 45 mins with an under-geared team. The way I play the virtuoso, i can cut that time in half. I've tried the pure defense set-up and learned from it. It is OVERKILL. If you don't understand why the armor buff is crap then I'm not gonna explain it to you.

 

Don't take it personal, you can play the virtuoso however you wish to play him. Before you call someone braindead though, you may want to listen to what they are they trying to tell you, you may find the advice they are giving you is actually helpful.

 

elec, elec, elec (speed movement)/elec, elec, fire, (attack speed)/elec, fire, ice, (damage buff MotR) / ice, ice, ice or a dps song switch, accordingly when needed

 

It's a very fast and smooth rotation also easy to learn.

 

If you run with groups that need heal on hit, please never invite me to your party. With the new t3 upgrade for heal on kill and dragon weapons I find that spending the points to get to something that has almost 0 value to me personally is a complete waste. If you run with teams that need it, then so be it, I just hope I never end up in your groups.

[Drasca]

or go offense and wipe everything.

 

My preferred option, obviously:

 

edit: Also when I say I'm pissed about it, I'm not pissed about the buffs, I'm pissed that I'm dying right next to a Virtuoso because he's so fixated on buffs he didn't notice I had no barrier for like 5 seconds.

 

Lol . . . yeah why buff when you can blow everything to smithereens 3 seconds ago, assuming you can live in 5 seconds, you can definitely live in 2 seconds.

[apocalypse_owl]

This is a really good support build. If you prefer to play offensive then obviously this wont be too good for you. Play how you want and don't listen to the people telling you how you should be having fun.

[Hellsteeth30]

I'll need friends before I ever do a support Zither again. Far too much work in pugs.

[Silversmurf]

222

 

R1 R1 R1 R1 R1 R1 R1 R1 R1 R1 R1 R1 R1 R1 R1 R1 R1 R1 R1 R1 R1 R1 R1 R1 R1 R1 

 

seems to work just fine in pugs

[Hellsteeth30]

**** that.

Barrier spamming Zither is nearly as boring as playing Juggernaut in ME 3.

Go into middle of map with particle rifle, stand there, kill stuff, force choke anything that gets close. Extract.

No more I say, barrier is personal use only on zither. PUG crowds are far too whimsical too follow around anyway. Especially melee players.

They prefer to charge off and die. **** 'em.

[Silversmurf]

**** that.

Barrier spamming Zither is nearly as boring as playing Juggernaut in ME 3.

Go into middle of map with particle rifle, stand there, kill stuff, force choke anything that gets close. Extract.

No more I say, barrier is personal use only on zither. PUG crowds are far too whimsical too follow around anyway. Especially melee players.

They prefer to charge off and die. **** 'em.

Lol

Had a zither 12 yesterday only use auto attacks......scary

I like to throw in the odd cold beats/power chord when it's safe while keeping 3 main buffs up

I guessed I am spoiled playing Zither with friends.

[Hellsteeth30]

Even with 3 buffs and as much barrier as my man's could muster three of the incompetent boobs still managed to die.

Just left me furiously twanging my lute trying to survive......I failed.

Maybe I need to lrn2zither better, I don't know.

[Silversmurf]

Doesn't sound like you failed if they all ran off

I feel your pain.

Everyone has good and bad games

[konfeta]

So what's the story with Mark of the Riff? Does it buff more than just vanilla weapon swings? Or is it being used to set up shocked + weakened -> sleep -> combo boom? The damage buff on hit itself seems underwhelming tbh.

[Theghostof_timmy]

At lvl 20 it adds 50 damage of every element (total 150) to every basic attack swing and some abilities. It's basically a free extra 150 dps.

[yarpenthemad21]

So what's the story with Mark of the Riff? Does it buff more than just vanilla weapon swings? Or is it being used to set up shocked + weakened -> sleep -> combo boom? The damage buff on hit itself seems underwhelming tbh.

At 20 level it adds 2 x 50 damage as elemental depending on your staff elements. For fire staff it's cold and electric.
For the duration of song attacks deal this additional damage (so 100 damage for each attack).
It's also important to mention that this elemental damage is only in terms of display, resistance/vulnerability does not matter, it's 2x50 damage all the time.
It works on abilities but not all. It should be tested.
It won't set shocked status on targets, upgraded mark of the rift set weakened on enemies in radius of song.

[konfeta]

Does it affect the the % mana off staff attacks passive?

 

100 extra damage per auto doesn't seem that great when you have Avaars and Archers outputting 1000-2000+ AoE crits.

[Jackyl]

If pugs are goin to run around all the time, I play heal on hit, attack speed, then queue up power chord. That way even though they are spread all over the map, they might live for a bit before I can get over to save them

[Johnsen1972]

Honestly for the perilious dragon you just need runspeed and shields. Spamming shield is the only thing thats needed. So a level 8 virtuoso with a barrier ring can keep up a whole group in perilous if they stay nearby. Did it myself more then 20 sucessful dragon runs.