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[Isaidlunch]

Corypheus is mine!

[ask_again_later]

Time travelling Fiona and the Qunari suddenly being trans-friendly.

Yes -- when the idea of Krem being transgender was brought up by Patrick, what we discussed was whether that fit into how we understand the Qun...and it did. It allowed us to explore the Qun idea of gender further, not to mention said something about Iron Bull as well. That made it an opportunity.
 
We did not go "hey, let's change the Qun to be this thing". Why would we? The Qun's concept of gender is not integral to Krem's existence in the Chargers. Iron Bull could just have easily said "yeah, this would never fly under the Qun" and be done with it.
 
I find it interesting that some fans feel they had a complete understanding of the Qun after indirect exposure to it through the eyes of a single character, and that, when exposed to some new facet afterwards, they react as if this new information required "retconning" on our end rather than some thought on theirs. Indeed, that was part of Iron Bull's purpose -- by Sten's estimation, Iron Bull should not be possible, never mind Krem. Iron Bull requires you to take your understanding of the Qunari (who Sten insisted were all monolithic in their purpose) and tilt it 45 degrees. Krem only requires you to understand that the Qunari see gender as a role -- if you are a warrior, you are a male...if Krem insisted on being female and a warrior THAT would make no sense to them -- and thus show another facet of how the Qunari are quite alien to us with regards to their view of certain things.
 
But I suppose it really depends on whether a given fan wants to consider such things. Maybe they'd prefer the Qunari just be the Borg, I don't know. Either way, I'm certain new things about them will continue to be shown by Patrick and co. in the years to come, which will undoubtedly blow peoples' minds with the extent of their "revisionism".

[themageguy]

I think it's out of place when Solas complains of your dismissal of his feelings as "the crazy knife ear whining" when you yourself play as an elf.

Also when you speak with Morrigan upon entering the Arbor Wilds, she informs you that the ruins they are searching may be a temple dedicated to Mythal. Even a dalish Inquisitor will proceed to question "Which is?"

Just......ugh

Yeah the Mythal dialogue was bad...especially when the vallaslin meanings were released and my dalish mage (who i since had deleted due to some bad bugs) and i find my mage was wearing mythals lol

[Cantina]

Yes -- when the idea of Krem being transgender was brought up by Patrick, what we discussed was whether that fit into how we understand the Qun...and it did. It allowed us to explore the Qun idea of gender further, not to mention said something about Iron Bull as well. That made it an opportunity.
 
We did not go "hey, let's change the Qun to be this thing". Why would we? The Qun's concept of gender is not integral to Krem's existence in the Chargers. Iron Bull could just have easily said "yeah, this would never fly under the Qun" and be done with it.
 
I find it interesting that some fans feel they had a complete understanding of the Qun after indirect exposure to it through the eyes of a single character, and that, when exposed to some new facet afterwards, they react as if this new information required "retconning" on our end rather than some thought on theirs. Indeed, that was part of Iron Bull's purpose -- by Sten's estimation, Iron Bull should not be possible, never mind Krem. Iron Bull requires you to take your understanding of the Qunari (who Sten insisted were all monolithic in their purpose) and tilt it 45 degrees. Krem only requires you to understand that the Qunari see gender as a role -- if you are a warrior, you are a male...if Krem insisted on being female and a warrior THAT would make no sense to them -- and thus show another facet of how the Qunari are quite alien to us with regards to their view of certain things.
 
But I suppose it really depends on whether a given fan wants to consider such things. Maybe they'd prefer the Qunari just be the Borg, I don't know. Either way, I'm certain new things about them will continue to be shown by Patrick and co. in the years to come, which will undoubtedly blow peoples' minds with the extent of their "revisionism".

 

 

 

LOL! The Qunari as The Borg?

 

So what is the Qunari's new motto "Resistance is futile?"

 

Next thing we know they'll be converting their ships into Cubes. <giggles>

[jurisper]

 

 

Then how the brit female voice goes 'Whats going on here?' ..in such a casual way..it make me cringe everytime , now I just skip it . 

 

If I see something weird going on...I say 'HEY! What are you doing!!!!' ..not 'what's going on here?' ...

 

 

I really think this is a bug - ie they used the "What's going on here?" from the scene where Giselle is harassing Dorian by mistake ...

[TEWR]

Oh my gosh! Yes! It's good to know I wasn't the only one thinking this.

 

You two aren't alone. Inquisition reeks of contrived choice after contrived choice and that bugged me as well in Bull's quest.

 

More so now that I remember that Isabela did say she had trouble running away from the dreadnought, which tells us the fuckers are fast (thanks Cantina).

[Googleness]

I think the final act of the game,

 

Spoiler

We chase coryfish the entire game to stop him from going into the fade only to defeat him and toss him INTO THE FADE!

 

How about chopping his head off, tossing his body into the fade then burn his head or something?

make... sure....

 

Warden killed a magister on awakening so it is possible.

[Googleness]

"If there's something strange
in your neighborhood
Who ya gonna call?"

 

GREY WARDENS!

 

so they'll master its taint.

[In Exile]

They got rid of some great options that were originally in the Keep. One was Hawke supporting blood magic. I think that's the one people are most upset about. The only other thing I can recall that BioWare removed from the Keep is the option of whether or not your Hawke and Cullen were friends.

I don't get this whole blood magic thing. Hawke never speaks out against blood magic - just what the GWs use it for, with some disgust.

[BansheeOwnage]

 

The casual "what's going on here?" is the only thing i am even slightly bothere by, more so because later you get a more gruff "what's going on here?"

Just so everyone knows, the reason that line is so out of place is because the audio people used the wrong one. That casual version of "What's going on here?" was copied from the conversation between Dorian and Mother Giselle, where the Inquisitor enters using that sentence.

 

There is a proper "What's going on here?" line that plays correctly in Here Lies the Abyss, but for some reason the audio people copied the calm one instead of using that one. Oops!

[BansheeOwnage]

I don't get this whole blood magic thing. Hawke never speaks out against blood magic - just what the GWs use it for, with some disgust.

Well, Hawke says it's never worth the cost, so that's pretty much speaking out.

[Dai Grepher]

Those are not issues. Cass was just talking without thinking. She was responding to the memory and trying to decipher what it meant at the same time. She may have even realized she wasn't making sense, which is why she hesitated. "The Divine called out to you, but..." seems to indicate that she got the gist of it, though she didn't quite word it properly. It could be interpreted as, "The Divine called out for help and you answered her plea", but of course Cass isn't going to word it like that in the spur of the moment.

 

The part with the Marquis is easy to explain. He may have read the order from Justinia, but there was no evidence that she wrote it. The Left Hand could have written than for all he knew. Plus, Chancellor Roderick may have been giving him contradictory information, which made him unsure.

 

No, my problem with the texts is how they keep calling the male Cousland who marries Anora the "prince-consort" when other parts of the lore clearly call him the "King", or likewise say that he rules Ferelden. Also, the codex and letters at the Chore Table call Anora a "Theirin" or "Mac-Tir" instead of "Cousland" as she should be. But I made a whole topic on that, so I won't discuss it here. That's my main complaint though.

 

Other things I don't like are the entire mage arc of DA:I, which is badly written cover to cover, as well as when Hawke says, "Corypheus is mine" even though the enemy we were facing is the Nightmare and not Corypheus.

[Smudjygirl]

Just so everyone knows, the reason that line is so out of place is because the audio people used the wrong one. That casual version of "What's going on here?" was copied from the conversation between Dorian and Mother Giselle, where the Inquisitor enters using that sentence.

 

There is a proper "What's going on here?" line that plays correctly in Here Lies the Abyss, but for some reason the audio people copied the calm one instead of using that one. Oops!

I know, and i mentioned the later version of it. I figured that was the case, anyway.

 

To OP

I thought trying to explain would help you understand the scene better. A person could be refered to as "someone" if you don't know who they are. And she does technically call to you later when she tells you to run and warn them. I was trying to show i disagree with that example, i didn't mean to cause offense.

[AngryFrozenWater]

Seeker Cassandra explains that the seeker abilities are different from those of templars. Yet, she has the templar specialization and no seeker specific abilities. That doesn't make any sense.

[Urzon]

Them deciding to make time travel canon. That's a door that can never be closed now.

[Ahriman]

I still don't understand why ancient elven artifact must use andrastian divine as sacrifice and why sacrifice cannot be done again to make another Anchor.

I still don't understand why some people in Thedas so easily believe that Tal Vashot mage is a Herald of Andraste and some believe that creature which looks like darkspawn chewed by Red Lyrium monster might be a good god and it's a good idea to die for this thing.

I still don't understand why everyone is so sure that you can become absolute god if you enter Black City physically. Since a)7 magisters already were there b] Flemeth can do it, but she's not an absolute god yet c) same for Kiran.

 

Time travelling Fiona and the Qunari suddenly being trans-friendly.

-snip-

 

I must be stupid but this explanation doesn't explain anything to me except "we say so, deal with it". Whatever.

[Urzon]

I must be stupid but this explanation doesn't explain anything to me except "we say so, deal with it". Whatever.

Not stupid at all. That's just the Qun's teaching and their interpretations in a nutshell, "We say so, deal with it".

[sim-ran]

I think the final act of the game,

Spoiler

We chase coryfish the entire game to stop him from going into the fade only to defeat him and toss him INTO THE FADE!

How about chopping his head off, tossing his body into the fade then burn his head or something?
make... sure....

Warden killed a magister on awakening so it is possible.

Oh God yes this for me too!

Bioware do idiotic cutscene nonsense like this a lot though, like when Normandy vs the Collector ship and later Thane vs Kai Lang decide to get in close for no sensible reason to finish off the enemy with a RANGED WEAPON with obvious bad results.

So many facepalms...

[MaxQuartiroli]

1) Cassandra's comment about a piece of codex that you can find as soon as you enter in Redcliff: "Every Ocularum is made with the skull of a Tranquil?"

- What does "Venatori" means? (I have still to meet Alexius, Dorian and Felix..)

- What are ocularums? From my second playthrough onward all my inquisitors have always ignored them so they are not supposed to know about their existance

 

2) When your inquisitor talks to Briala for the first time in the ballrom they always act like this is the first time they have ever met. This isn't always true because they can have already known each other in the servant quarters, and Briala had already offered her alliance.

 

 

 

[Frikipolleces]

The whole thing with the mages at Redcliff didn't make any sense. Fiona is all "oh Maker I wish I could accept your offer, Inquisitor, but I already have a verbal agreement to sell myself and my underlings into slavery". Immediately after Alexius talks about the future of the mages and she's  oh-so-shocked to learn that they'll be used as soldiers, despite what he previously stated to her. Meaning any kind of contract they could possibly have is nullified.

 

Hell, this is how that dialogue would've actually played:

 

-Hi, Fiona, I heard you are in deep ****. Wanna tag along with the Inquisition? We've got freedom, and cookies.

-Hmm, since my only other offer involves slavery, yours does sound great. **** you, Alexius, I'm leaving.

*QUEST COMPLETED*

 

 

I must be stupid but this explanation doesn't explain anything to me except "we say so, deal with it". Whatever.

Qunary do not understand gender as we do. They are not "trans-friendly" because they wouldn't acknowledge transexuality to begin with. Your gender is determined by your job, and your job is determined by your gender. Krem is  a warrior, and therefore a man. If he wanted to be treated as a woman AND be a warrior, then they'd have a problem. If he wanted to be treated as a man and wasn't any good at fighting, they'd have a problem as well, because he wouldn't be allowed to be a warrior and therefore wouldn't be a man either.

 

"But that doesn't make any sense!". Well, no, it's Qun logic. So yeah, as you say, deal with it.

[Ahriman]

 

Qunary do not understand gender as we do. They are not "trans-friendly" because they wouldn't acknowledge transexuality to begin with. Your gender is determined by your job, and your job is determined by your gender. Krem is  a warrior, and therefore a man. If he wanted to be treated as a woman AND be a warrior, then they'd have a problem. If he wanted to be treated as a man and wasn't any good at fighting, they'd have a problem as well, because he wouldn't be allowed to be a warrior and therefore wouldn't be a man either.

 

"But that doesn't make any sense!". Well, no, it's Qun logic. So yeah, as you say, deal with it.

Except the part where multiple qunari say that women aren't allowed to be warriors. No matter of their capabilities. Unless they say that they feel themselves men, of course, then it's ok. Not exploitable logic. Not at all.

[Frikipolleces]

Except the part where multiple qunari say that women aren't allowed to be warriors. No matter of their capabilities. Unless they say that they feel themselves men, of course, then it's ok. Not exploitable logic. Not at all.

Only men can be warriors because if you're a warrior, then you are a man as well  You are not looking at it from a qunary point of view. It doesn't have to make sense, the Qun is based on a great deal of logical fallacies. In this case, a Not a True Scotsman fallacy.

 

-No women can be warriors.

-I'm a woman and a warrior.

-Nope, if you are a warrior, then you must be a man.

 

If you include "being a man" in your definition of warrior, then of course every warrior is male, or they wouldn't be warriors to begin with!

[Lazarillo]

Except the part where multiple qunari say that women aren't allowed to be warriors. No matter of their capabilities. Unless they say that they feel themselves men, of course, then it's ok. Not exploitable logic. Not at all.

 

I think it's important to note that the Qunari don't necessarily say that.  Iron Bull says that, and if you pay attention to a lot of what he says particularly in his early conversations, he's pretty far removed from actual Qunari doctrine (and simply isn't inclined to admit it).  I think a lot of his comments about how the Qunari would be totally okay with Krem's lifestyle choices are more personal than he lets on.

 

That said, Qunari do like efficiency, so I suspect someone like Krem would be treated as a special case whenever the Qunari get around to conquering Thedas.  It's simply a better use of everyone's time not to try to teach her completely different skills from square one (old dog, new tricks, etc).  But there's probably still more to it than "oh, okay, we'll just call you a man", and I don't suspect it's the sort of thing most people would find pleasant.  And I suspect if an individual in a similar situation was actually being raised by the Qunari it would more just be a cause for brainwashing.

[PlasmaCheese]

Them deciding to make time travel canon. That's a door that can never be closed now.

I was disappointed about this. Actually, the entire game I was worried that everything would be so screwed up that the only solution would be going back through time and stopping the Conclave from blowing up to begin with. I was bracing myself for it.

Spoiler

Ramble ahead!...Of course, this was back when I thought Corypheus was really going to be a major threat. Some super powerful, darkspawn-controlling, red lyrium peddling, grey warden-corrupting, blighted ultra-mage. I had no idea how ANYONE was supposed to defeat a creature like that when he literally controlled one of the (if not *the*) most powerful force in Thedas; the Blight. Not only that, but he could also puppet around the only people with the knowledge and the resistance to defeat Darkspawn (and all of this way before I learned he can use Wardens to reconstruct himself!).

I just couldn't grasp. how a glowing hand could help defeat THAT, even if it did create veil tears. But then Corypheus was a joke, so pfff. :S

I really hope that time-travel will be lost for centuries or something. Considering one can kill Alexius...here's hoping. My warden killed Brother Genitivi as well, but it still seems like everyone still found out about the ashes. ;___;

[fighterchick]

Oh, and I realize this isn't a writing flub, per say, but I don't like that when I romanced Cullen on a playthrough that I went out of my way to make sure had a sacrificed female mage Warden, Cullen's like, "Yeah, I had a little crush on her, but that was it." Um, excuse me? Do you remember DA2 when you told Hawke that you were in LOVE? I would have preferred a bit more emotional conflict from Cullen, especially since the first woman he love died, so now what will happen to this one? I doubt I'm the only one who was upset that he said the Warden was just a little crush, but beyond that I feel it was a missed opportunity by not having him talk about the Warden. I realize it would require more dialogue, but I'm not looking for a whole speech. Just a few sentences, even.

 

Cullen never tells Hawke that he loved the Warden.  I'm fairly certain he never says that to any character in any of the games.  Instead, he calls her a special woman and he never met her like again.  The only time anyone says that Cullen was in love with the warden that I recall is by random NPCs running around the tower at the start of origins.

 

Here's the little bit of dialogue: