232 réponses à ce sujet

[ask_again_later]

Only men can be warriors because if you're a warrior, then you are a man as well  You are not looking at it from a qunary point of view. It doesn't have to make sense, the Qun is based on a great deal of logical fallacies. In this case, a Not a True Scotsman fallacy.
 
-No women can be warriors.
-I'm a woman and a warrior.
-Nope, if you are a warrior, then you must be a man.
 
If you include "being a man" in your definition of warrior, then of course every warrior is male, or they wouldn't be warriors to begin with!

Ding ding. We have a winner, ladies and gentlemen.

 

Cullen never tells Hawke that he loved the Warden.  I'm fairly certain he never says that to any character in any of the games.  Instead, he calls her a special woman and he never met her like again.  The only time anyone says that Cullen was in love with the warden that I recall is by random NPCs running around the tower at the start of origins.
 
Here's the little bit of dialogue:
-snip-

*Shrugs* I still would have preferred more. And the way Cullen accidentally confesses to the Warden makes it seem like a LOT more than a little crush. The one thing he always wanted but could never have.

[Patchwork]

"Who's Mythal" from a dalish elf will always bother me. 

 

The mage quest doesn't really explain what happened with Fiona and that unlike the templars the mages have no active part in their recruitment quest. 

 

What confuses me about the qunari's open armed acceptance of trans gender is they must start training pretty young so what happens to the people who don't figure it out until they're in their late teens or older? Do they just talk to a priest and get a role re-assignment? What if they're quite happy working as a blacksmith or whatever female exclusive job they have but after much struggling have come to accept his true gender?  Unless the person wants to join/leave the Ataam does the priest do nothing, just leave things as they are? 

[Shechinah]

What confuses me about the qunari's open armed acceptance of trans gender is they must start training pretty young so what happens to the people who don't figure it out until they're in their late teens or older? Do they just talk to a priest and get a role re-assignment? What if they're quite happy working as a blacksmith or whatever female exclusive job they have but after much struggling have come to accept his true gender?  Unless the person wants to join/leave the Ataam does the priest do nothing, just leave things as they are? 

It works a bit different, I believe, if I remember how David Gaider explained it; If they show themselves to be skilled within a field that is assigned to males then it is decided that they must be male - warrior equals male, craftsman equals female as an example. I imaging it is along the lines of them approaching the Tamassarans and displaying their talents or the Tamassarans noting the talent and assigning them a role. 

 

It is not an open armed acceptance of transgenderism as much as it is that they have a different view towards gender and is similar to some old cultures in how that view is. You do not get to claim you are male if you have skill in a male field and you do not get to claim you are female if you have no skill in a female field, you'll need to re-educated in that case. Krem is skilled in the male field of being a warrior hence why he would be considered male despite his physical sex - warrior = male.    

 

Bah, my explaination is likely poor but if you'd like you can find it in the "Writer Interview: Sexual Diversity"-thread.

[Patchwork]

It works a bit different, I believe, if I remember how David Gaider explained it; If they show themselves to be skilled within a field that is assigned to males then it is decided that they must be male - warrior equals male, craftsman equals female as an example. I imaging it is along the lines of them approaching the Tamassarans and displaying their talents or the Tamassarans noting the talent and assigning them a role. 

 

It is not an open armed acceptance of transgenderism as much as it is that they have a different view towards gender and is similar to some old cultures in how that view is. You do not get to claim you are male if you have skill in a male field and you do not get to claim you are female if you have no skill in a female field, you'll need to re-educated in that case. Krem is skilled in the male field of being a warrior hence why he would be considered male despite his physical sex - warrior = male.    

 

Bah, my explaination is likely poor but if you'd like you can find it in the "Writer Interview: Sexual Diversity"-thread.

 

So the person's opinion on their own gender doesn't matter only skills/talent they can prove? That sounds more like the qunari of DAO/2.

[Shechinah]

So the person's opinion on their own gender doesn't matter only skills/talent they can prove? That sounds more like the qunari of DAO/2.

 

Indeed, it fits with the meritocratic aspects of their philosophy. As an additional note; Sten's issue with a female Warden in Origin was not that they were a warrior but that they were a warrior and a woman. He is attempting to apply the culture and philosophy of the Qun but cannot in this case because the Warden does not deny their physical gender and claims to be female. The Warden does not, if I recall correctly, have the option of denying their physical gender.

 

As an example during dialogue; "You are a Grey Warden so it follows you cannot be a woman" (...) "I am a woman and I fight." "One of those things can't be true." - Since Sten knows the Warden is a capable fighter then, in his mind, that would mean that the Warden must be male and not female as they claim.
 

[Owlfruit Potion]

Oh, and I realize this isn't a writing flub, per say, but I don't like that when I romanced Cullen on a playthrough that I went out of my way to make sure had a sacrificed female mage Warden, Cullen's like, "Yeah, I had a little crush on her, but that was it." Um, excuse me? Do you remember DA2 when you told Hawke that you were in LOVE? I would have preferred a bit more emotional conflict from Cullen, especially since the first woman he love died, so now what will happen to this one? I doubt I'm the only one who was upset that he said the Warden was just a little crush, but beyond that I feel it was a missed opportunity by not having him talk about the Warden. I realize it would require more dialogue, but I'm not looking for a whole speech. Just a few sentences, even.

Cullen never tells Hawke that he loved the Warden.  I'm fairly certain he never says that to any character in any of the games.  Instead, he calls her a special woman and he never met her like again.  The only time anyone says that Cullen was in love with the warden that I recall is by random NPCs running around the tower at the start of origins.

 

Here's the little bit of dialogue:

[clipped for space]

Yeah, the word "love" is only ever used by the gossipy mages in DA:O and Cullen's codex entry in DA2 (edit: so, gossipy templars in that case, I guess). And if you're not romancing Cullen in DA:I, in that conversation he goes on about how he found the f!mage!Warden "compelling" in the same tone he uses to call Amell "special" in DA2, and asks Leliana to tell him more about her both at the War Table and in advisor/messenger banter. All of which is good enough for me to keep headcanoning that they wind up together in DA:I playthroughs where the Inquisitor doesn't romance him. I'm pleasantly surprised they spent even that much word budget on a mini-romance where you had no real option to indicate reciprocal interest when (IIRC) both non-Warden Alistair and Zevran say nothing about the HoF.

 

As for annoying writing glitches, I'd go with 1. the "Who is Mythal" thing and 2. Viscount/ess Hawke saying the templars turned on her when that doesn't make sense with the timeline of Cassandra arriving in Kirkwall / Cullen leaving Kirkwall, but since the former is apparently a race flag bug and the latter isn't that big of a deal (edit: and would be perfectly in-character for my Hawke as a lie because she doesn't feel like telling the Inquisitor whatever really happened), I can't get too worked up about it.

[BansheeOwnage]

Seeker Cassandra explains that the seeker abilities are different from those of templars. Yet, she has the templar specialization and no seeker specific abilities. That doesn't make any sense.

Agreed. Why can't Cassandra bend mages and templars to her will in combat like she says she can?

[l7986]

I don't know if its a flub or whatever, but everyone jumping on you like you proposed burning down an orphanage if you dare to ask Krem about the trans thing. I was honestly curious and suddenly I had Bull getting all pissed because I was trying to inquire about something I know nothing about.

[BansheeOwnage]

I don't know if its a flub or whatever, but everyone jumping on you like you proposed burning down an orphanage if you dare to ask Krem about the trans thing. I was honestly curious and suddenly I had Bull getting all pissed because I was trying to inquire about something I know nothing about.

It would have helped if they didn't force your Quizzy to ask badly worded questions.

[Dieb]

Agreed. Why can't Cassandra bend mages and templars to her will in combat like she says she can?

 

Why isn't Cole invincible? Why does Iron Bull not really last long in the thick of battle? Why doesn't Solas sneak in a little awesome Elven god power rather than dying for good right before the game over screen?

 

Her Seeker training got translated to the skills in her Templar spec, and that's good enough to keep gameplay even. She can break spells, ban demons, ban rifts, and severly damage mages (with the upgrade) or just destroy them (with the self-combo via Wrath of Heavens), which is pretty much the "boiling lyrium" thing she mentions.

[Fredward]

Probably more of a bug than a writing gaf but I was just walking with Bull, Varric and Whatshisbeard through the Hinterlands when we stumbled across some red templars. A bit weird I thought since I haven't even gone to Redcliffe for the first time yet but whatever. So we kill them and Bull says 'Red templars, wonder what's so important Corypheus would send them out here?'

 

Well gosh Bull I don't know? What's a red templar? Who's Coryphillis?

 

I FEEL LIKE YOU HAVEN'T BEEN TERRIBLY FORTHCOMING WITH THOSE BEN-HASSRATH REPORTS IB.

[l7986]

It would have helped if they didn't force your Quizzy to ask badly worded questions.

Agreed. That was one situation that the dialogue wheel failed horribly in.

[Cantina]

It would have helped if they didn't force your Quizzy to ask badly worded questions.

 

LOL! True to that.

 

And as a bonus we got a Quizzy who does not have much expression - the deer in the headlights look. OR when a half-ass attempted to make an expression ends up being stuck like that for the rest of the conversation.

[Krypplingz]

I don't know if its a flub or whatever, but everyone jumping on you like you proposed burning down an orphanage if you dare to ask Krem about the trans thing. I was honestly curious and suddenly I had Bull getting all pissed because I was trying to inquire about something I know nothing about.

Spoiler

1. Are you a woman?

I: Wait, are you...I didn't realize...

K: You didn't? Well great, now we can all talk about it.

(Goto Part 2.)

 

3. When did you know?

I: Did you always know?

K: Yes. It's not the most fortunate thing to know about yourself, growing up in Tevinter one rung above slavery.

(Goto Part 2.)

 

4. Why pass?

I: You don't have to pass for a man to be a mercenary.

K: I'm not passing as anything.

(Goto Part 2.)

 

6. And the rest of your crew?

I: Who are the others?

(Skips to the next dialog segment.)

 

Part 2

IB: In Qunadar, Krem'd be an Aqun-Athlok. That's what we call someone born one gender but living like another.

K: And Qunari don't treat those...Aqun people any different than a real man?

IB: They are real men. Just like you are.

K: Hmm...Maybe your people aren't so bad after all. 

IB: Don't get your hopes up, Krem. We still come down hard on the back talk.

 

I'm pretty sure you'd get a harsher reaction if you burned down the orphanage. 

Neither Krem nor Iron Bull raise their voices during the whole dialog. The "harshest" bit of the conversation is that Krem slightly sharpens his tone when he says: I'm not passing as anything. It's more of a mild irritation or slight annoyance than full on rage. 

But maybe I'm just used to harsher reactions for lesser offenses.  

 

On topic: The only thing that really bothered me what the lack of knowledge on Mythal from the Dalish Inquisitor and Hawke loudly condemning Blood magic while being a blood mage in a relationship with another blood mage. I understand why it happened, but I don't really like it. 

[AngryFrozenWater]

Her Seeker training got translated to the skills in her Templar spec, and that's good enough to keep gameplay even. She can break spells, ban demons, ban rifts, and severly damage mages (with the upgrade) or just destroy them (with the self-combo via Wrath of Heavens), which is pretty much the "boiling lyrium" thing she mentions.

Nah. Templar abilities require lyrium. That's stuff that seekers cannot use (according to Cassandra). If these abilities were actually seeker abilities translated into templar ones then BW could have just named it a seeker tree, because it wouldn't match true templars. They didn't do that and called it specifically a templar specialization. It has nothing to do with keeping gameplay even, because BW could have balanced a seeker tree equally well.

[Tinxa]

I found some of Solas dialogue odd.

 

I'm pretty sure he says things like "Ah, the artifact of my people" when talking about veilfire and "We the elves do this and that..." in his banter with Sera but later he's all "What do you mean ''my people''??? OH you mean the ELVES!" 

[ask_again_later]

Yeah, the word "love" is only ever used by the gossipy mages in DA:O and Cullen's codex entry in DA2 (edit: so, gossipy templars in that case, I guess). And if you're not romancing Cullen in DA:I, in that conversation he goes on about how he found the f!mage!Warden "compelling" in the same tone he uses to call Amell "special" in DA2, and asks Leliana to tell him more about her both at the War Table and in advisor/messenger banter. All of which is good enough for me to keep headcanoning that they wind up together in DA:I playthroughs where the Inquisitor doesn't romance him. I'm pleasantly surprised they spent even that much word budget on a mini-romance where you had no real option to indicate reciprocal interest when (IIRC) both non-Warden Alistair and Zevran say nothing about the HoF.

 

As for annoying writing glitches, I'd go with 1. the "Who is Mythal" thing and 2. Viscount/ess Hawke saying the templars turned on her when that doesn't make sense with the timeline of Cassandra arriving in Kirkwall / Cullen leaving Kirkwall, but since the former is apparently a race flag bug and the latter isn't that big of a deal (edit: and would be perfectly in-character for my Hawke as a lie because she doesn't feel like telling the Inquisitor whatever really happened), I can't get too worked up about it.

I never actually watched the video. Someone told me he said "love", but if he says that at the war table then that's okay with me.

[Aren]

The way in which Corypheus lose the Mark seems like the worst kind of sloppy writing if you ask me, like one of those "Looney Tunes" scene in which the

"bad or whatever" make the dinner and then is distracting for a few second while suddenly "the clever one" eat the meal and then run away, i would expect more from Bioware.

 

Also the whole Solas Corypheus affair, until now i have yet to understand of why someone, (unless  blind) would give something to someone with a face like the one of Corypheus.

 

[Lazarillo]

 

The way in which Corypheus lose the Mark seems like the worst kind of sloppy writing if you ask me, like one of those "Looney Tunes" scene in which the

"bad or whatever" make the dinner and then is distracting for a few second while suddenly "the clever one" eat the meal and then run away, i would expect more from Bioware.

 

I think that's somewhat deliberate.  The whole idea is to make people doubt that it's just dumb luck.  Make people think "There's no way that could've just happened.  The Maker must have done it!"  Or at least figure that both explanations are equally (im)plausible.

[Eyes_Only]

Iron Bull's mission. Here I am on a hill overlooking the vints and yet I stand there and watch them climb the other side and slay the Charges? I could have run down the hill and stopped them. heck I seem to recall there might have even been some barrels on the hillside meant to be rolled down while set on fire. Why didn't I use those?

 

My dalish characters asking naive questions in regards to dalish culture that my elf SHOULD have known. I should know who the dead wolf is. who mythal is. And yet I ask questions about them.

 

I'm not sure my dwarf warrior should be able to become a Templar. Simply because of the anchor? Otherwise it makes no sense.

 

Hawke and blood magic. Just like the simple keep question in regards to Hawke's sense of humor, magical preference should have been included.

 

Hawke and the warden. It makes sense Hawke comes across Stroud, or even Alistair. But would her own hatred at Loghain allow for the same alliance? I think not really. She was at Ostagar when he left the field. She got back to Lothering just in time to get her family away ahead of the darkspawn horde. A horde on the loose thanks to Loghain. This needs better explaining. 

 

Repeated words. "exactly how much will this cost me, exactly."

[Al Foley]

 

When it comes to the writing of Inquisition it seems to have highs and lows. Granted no book, movie or game has perfect writing; they happen to have small moments that don't make much sense. However in Inquisition it is littered with moments that stick out like a sore thumb that don't make any sense and/or counterdict something previous said thus causing confusion and head scratching.

 

Here are two writing flubs that irk me the most.

 

 

 

"Someone!"

 

At the beginning of the game, Cassandra, Varric, Solas and your character arrive at the Breech. You hear the Divine call out from a vision Fade echo,  "Someone help me!"  Follow by your character. "What is going on here?"

 

Cassandra chimes in and says, "That was your voice. Most Holy called out to you but..."

 

For starters: The Divine never called out to my character for help. She said, "Someone." She was seeking help from anyone. Unless all our characters default name is "Someone."

 

My husband said he plans on playing the game again and naming his character, "Someone" so this part does make sense.

 

 

The Marquis

 

There is a cut-scene between Cassandra and Chancellor Rodrick. Cassandra has finally had a enough and slams down a book on the war table.

 

Cassandra: "Do you know what this is, Chancellor? A writ from the Divine granting us the authority to act. As of this moment, I declare the Inquisition reborn."

 

Later you get a cut-scene with Josephine arguing with a Marquis.

 

Marquis: "The Inquisition cannot remain, Ambassador, if you cannot prove it was founded on Divine Justina's orders."

 

This scene has bothered me since day one, because right after the Inquisition declaration I always trigger this scene with Josephine and the Marquis. When the Marquis says this line, I feel like smacking him upside the head and Josephine too. It was founded on the Divine's orders. Cassandra and Lilly have a writ from her. Just show the Marquis the writ and then shove his ass out the door. Why the hell was this argument put in the game? More importantly how the hell was this writing flub not caught by the writer(s) and/or developers? It stands out like a hooker on a Vegas Strip! Bah!

 

 

1.  Is rather easy to explain.  Cassandra assumed that the voice was yours since it sounded like yours.  Furthermore the Divine probably wouldn't have known you either way.  So 'someone' fits and naming your character someone to make something fit that already somewhat makes sense....just doesen't work.

 

2.  I get the feeling that Justinia hadn't actuallly restablished the Inquisition yet she was mulling it over but clearly did not have the wherewithal to do it yet, hence the big deal in the scene in question...erm no not that scene...where the Inquisition is founded in the first place 'founding the Inquisition of old'.  Futhermore all everyone else outside the Inquisition, and even many people within the Inquisition, has is Cassandra and Leilianna's word that this was Justinia's intentions all along.  You can see where a random Orelisian noble, especially an Orlesian Noble, might not take too kindly to this whole idea.  

 

Also since the Chantry at the time did not support the Inquisition and was even bitterly opposed almost as a whole organization it would have lent credence to the idea that this was not what the Inquisition wanted.  

 

Though I do have one to commit to.  Granted not sure if its a flub but the difference between Corypheus off screen and on screen is truly...tragic.  

[wtfman99]

When they were saying the Hero of Ferelden had disappeared and Leliana (my romance in DA:O) knew where I was all along. Surprised Cassandra didn't flip out on her when Leliana apparently knew where the HoF was the whole time.

[Chiramu]

The "someone" scene is rather mean to illustrate that Cassandra realizes how it couldn't have been you, if you were just stumbling in and heeding her cry for help. I don't see a problem with the fact that her utterance of bafflement wasn't 100% repeating the facts. It was more like a "you didn't kill her, she even wanted you (or anyone, and clearly you were anyone) to help her" kind of deduction, since obviously Justinia isn't going to call her immediate attacker for help.

 

 

That scene was actually made because the writers wanted to have the Inquisitor be heard. Even if it makes no sense, they wanted the Inquisitor to be saying something to have Cassandra respond in the way she did. It could've been rewritten to work out better and that is why it is also a most HATED scene of mine too. I used hate because it is such a strong word and I hate it when people don't work as hard as they can.

[BansheeOwnage]

Iron Bull's mission. Here I am on a hill overlooking the vints and yet I stand there and watch them climb the other side and slay the Charges? I could have run down the hill and stopped them. heck I seem to recall there might have even been some barrels on the hillside meant to be rolled down while set on fire. Why didn't I use those?

 

I'm not sure my dwarf warrior should be able to become a Templar. Simply because of the anchor? Otherwise it makes no sense.

Yeah, Bull's mission... But why can't a dwarf become a templar? You don't need magic to become one. You just need lyrium.

[Cantina]

1.  Is rather easy to explain.  Cassandra assumed that the voice was yours since it sounded like yours.  Furthermore the Divine probably wouldn't have known you either way.  So 'someone' fits and naming your character someone to make something fit that already somewhat makes sense....just doesen't work.

 

I find it amusing some people are trying to give sense to something so very senseless.

 

For starters your explanation makes the least sense out of all that have tried to explain.

 

Did you even watch the cut scene?

 

The Divine was asking for help from - someone. The Divine was seeking help from anyone who would answer her cries for help - not your character directly. If The Divine was in fact seeking help from your character directly, then Cassandra's comment would make sense. But since The Divine was not, Cassandra's comment is just bad writing.

 

You could say, "Well Cassandra realized she messed up which is why she stopped talking." No, she stopped talking because the Rift shifted causing a vision to appear.  Beyond that later on, Cassandra tells Rodrick, "I heard the voices in the Temple. The Divine called to her/him for help." Again, The Divine did not call for help directly from your character, your character just so happened to answer her cry for help.

 

Cassandra's dialogue should have been cleaner, "You tried to help Most Holy....but..."  <---- that makes far more sense then the lack of sense in the current dialogue.