Or rather "save" him.
Why did you do it? I don't see why anyone would. For one thing, it's the justice system and that's how it works. Not to mention that he willingly decided to do it and I figured I'd respect his wishes.
So for anyone who brought Blackwall back to Skyhold, what was your reasoning? I feel like even if you romanced him you wouldn't do that, but that's just my thought.
Hello again
Because he was my friend, he regretted what he did and i figured i would give him a chance. He becomes a GW without becoming a GW to try and change what he did and make the world better. "So the world wouldn't lose a good man".
He pleges himself to the Inquisition. He figured he could give justice to people he wronged by giving himself up, but i figured he could do more stopping the apocolypse. In my opinion, he deserved a second chance. He made amends when he stopped hiding and owned up to it.
Because he isn't a bad guy at all, the people he killed were people he was ordered to kill and was likely not even told everything. In his shoes I might very well have done the same, deciding to impersonate Blackwall rather than let everything think I murdered him. And he did some good for the Wardens even without being one, sending worthy recruits to the Grey Wardens might very well have gotten them good recruits they wouldn't have gotten otherwise. And frankly, he's a skilled enough warrior that he is quite useful to keep around if you're the type to think practically.
Put it this way, no one who recruits Sten in DAO should have any right to complain about keeping Blackwall. What Sten did was much worse, but he too is a good person who is skilled enough to be worth keeping even if you don't like what he did.
I just wanted him as a companion, so purely selfish reason. He was also a champion and a great tank, so I didn't want to lose that.
I always try to have have all companions with a high friendship rating in my 1st play through.
Yeah but the thing is that he wanted to die so I figured, go ahead.
He didn't want to die. He wanted justice to be served.
Again, another perfect chance for a Sten comparison. Sten also wanted to die and argues the Warden about freeing him unless you make him realize that you could help him repent in a better way than just dying in a cage.
Again, another perfect chance for a Sten comparison. Sten also wanted to die and argues the Warden about freeing him unless you make him realize that you could help him repent in a better way than just dying in a cage.
Exactly. They thought blood must be paid in blood, but there are other ways to make amends. It's some backwards sense of honor, and the Warden and Inquisitor, respectively, act as a guide to show that isn't true.
For once, because I detest the basic concept of the death penalty. Nobody's helped with the death of someone who poses no immediate threat to anyone, and provident judical actions are seldomly worth the error ratio. But that's a big one, so let's get particular.
Secondly, it's easy to call it sinister child murder, but we all know things weren't quite as straightforward. I'm not saying he isn't downright responsible for the death of a civilian family, but his intentions and the way it was carried out was importantly different:
He was a coward, and a greedy one at that, but not a psychopath. When it comes to his case, that means everything to me - a murderer cannot be redeemed, but he didn't have them killed because he enjoyed it or thought it was necessary, he didn't stop the slaughter because he was scared to be blamed - knowing it's a terrible thing.
Thirdly, he's a different man now. As far as I'm concerned, Thom is the most "good" of all the companions, because altruism means everything to him. It's disgusting how he got there, but he is literally doing everything he can do to make it up. He has no personal agenda, other than doing good until he croaks - not a lot of clean living people can say that of themselves.
Fourthly, he's my bro.
I think the big difference between Blackwall and Sten for me is that the guilt isn't eating Sten alive, freeing Sten isn't illegal if you convince the sister, Qunari are weird like that, Sten didn't initially run from the consequences, Sten didn't steal anyone's identity or wimp out because he didn't want to die, Sten didn't need someone to convince him how to live his life in order to make decisions, and other stuff.
Justice is not blindly swinging the sword of vengeance. Sometimes you have to sheath the sword and offer a hand instead.
Tom Rainier legitimately regretted what happened. There were things that occurred that weren't in his control, and he tried to redeem himself, and spent ten years impersonating a Warden who died protecting him both in honor of the real Blackwall and because he believed being a Warden, even a fake one, let him help people who needed it. He was in Fereldan during the blight, which means he spent ten years helping people and seeking redemption. He said it best himself: that 'It was better for everyone that Tom Rainier died and Blackwall lived'. Tom Rainier the disillusioned Orlesian Soldier turned Traitor turned Fugitive was left behind in favor of the idealism of the Wardens. In my eyes, that's what a Warden is: you 'die' to become a Warden just as a dwarf may 'die' to become a Legionnaire. You give yourself up for a greater cause.
Redemption isn't found by the executioner's axe, and is not found sitting a small little room awaiting it either. I consider giving him to the Wardens both a reward for his actions and allowing him to further his path of redemption the way he wanted it to be.
My Inquisitor was banging him, and he was her go-to tank. No way she was leaving him to be hanged.
Beyond that, though - before becoming the Inquisitor, was in the Carta. She'd done a lot of things she regretted. She certainly couldn't look down on Blackwall and say that she was a better person than he was when she'd done worse. She accepted anyone into the Inquisition if they were willing to join up, and her motto was 'what you did means nothing, what you do means everything.'
She arranged to have him sent to the Grey Wardens after Corypheus was over - that was, after all, his original sentence. (Assuming he survives his Joining, I assume she'll also arrange to have him sent straight back to Skyhold as a 'representative'. The Wardens owe her a favour.)
So he could redeem himself in a more useful way. Namely, continuing to help fight Corypheus, then joining (or die trying) the Grey Wardens.
Because he is far from the worst person in the Inquisition. Yes, he made one bad mistake on the orders of someone else, but what about people like Leliana, Iron Bull, Sera or Josephine? They have all committed similar acts, and they have all done so repeatedly, and continue to do so while under your command. Josephine may wield words and diplomacy as her weapons, but she does far more damage than Thom Rainier ever did. And what about the Inquisitor? You are worse than Blackwall - you are like the person who ordered Blackwall to kill the Calliers. When you go to your wartable and make decisions, do you really think that no innocents are hurt? You sent Leliana's people to take "care of" a problem - you think nobody got hurt? For a laugh, maybe you sent an Avvar tribe to raid in Tevinter - you think they didn't kill peasants, travellers and other innocents on their way? Pretty much whatever your Inquisitor did, and however good their intentions were, innocents will have been trampled in their path.
Also, Blackwall is my best tank and I don't want to lose him! (Plus two of my inquisitors romanced him, and I genuinely like the guy.)
Beyond that, though - before becoming the Inquisitor, was in the Carta. She'd done a lot of things she regretted. She certainly couldn't look down on Blackwall and say that she was a better person than he was when she'd done worse. She accepted anyone into the Inquisition if they were willing to join up, and her motto was 'what you did means nothing, what you do means everything.'
Excellent point. A dwarf Inquisitor has absolutely zero right to get on his case for the things he did... Without being a massive hypocrite, anyway. If you think your dwarf's hands are clean after working in the Carta for years, you don't know anything about them.
Because "whatever we were before, we are now: the Inquisition."
Although that line never made it into the game, I stand boldly by it.
Felt only fitting that Thom Rainier was personally forgiven by the Herald of Andraste and pledged his life to the Inquisition. On the basis that he redeems himself as Thom Rainier, NOT Blackwall.
Leaving him to be executed doesn't accomplish anything. Justice is not always black and white. He will atone and find redemption, and there is no finer cause than the one he is already devoted to.
What would leaving him accomplish? A few Orlesians get to snigger behind their fans over someone who lost the game getting hanged. Wow. That is so much more important than an incredibly capable warrior helping to stop the apocalypse and then devoting his life to protecting others no matter the cost to himself.
Because he is far from the worst person in the Inquisition. Yes, he made one bad mistake on the orders of someone else, but what about people like Leliana, Iron Bull, Sera or Josephine? They have all committed similar acts, and they have all done so repeatedly, and continue to do so while under your command. Josephine may wield words and diplomacy as her weapons, but she does far more damage than Thom Rainier ever did. And what about the Inquisitor? You are worse than Blackwall - you are like the person who ordered Blackwall to kill the Calliers. When you go to your wartable and make decisions, do you really think that no innocents are hurt? You sent Leliana's people to take "care of" a problem - you think nobody got hurt? For a laugh, maybe you sent an Avvar tribe to raid in Tevinter - you think they didn't kill peasants, travellers and other innocents on their way? Pretty much whatever your Inquisitor did, and however good their intentions were, innocents will have been trampled in their path.
Also, Blackwall is my best tank and I don't want to lose him! (Plus two of my inquisitors romanced him, and I genuinely like the guy.)
When did Josie do this? She tried to be a bard and killed someone in self defense and then quit. How is what she did worse than what he did?
Who says I sent the Avvar tribe to raid Tevinter? Who says I sent Leliana's people to "take care" of someone? How is ordering someone to do something for the greater good comparable to killing children and an innocent woman for no reason whatsoever? The Inquisitor knows there will always be casualties and he/she can only do whatever's best to avoid as many as possible.
Also it's not about whether or not he's a good or bad person so much as the fact that by releasing him I'm going to be causing more damage. I will be distressing the family of the victims who think to themselves that the murderer of their loved ones will be walking around, I will be desecrating the memory of the real Blackwall by letting a person who he was good to and who has spent all this time pretending to be him in order to save his own butt get off Scott free, I will be killing someone if I pick Leliana, I will be killing multiple people if I kill Cullen and I will cause extremely tense relations between the Inquisition and Val Royeaux that would not only be bad for the Inquisition, but might cause one of the people who blames Reiner for his awful deeds do something stupid that they might regret. And let's not forget that if it wasn't for the Inquisitor being a good role model, Blackwall would have let that man hang in the gallows in his place.
When did Josie do this? She tried to be a bard and killed someone in self defense and then quit. How is what she did worse than what he did?
Who says I sent the Avvar tribe to raid Tevinter? Who says I sent Leliana's people to "take care" of someone? How is ordering someone to do something for the greater good comparable to killing children and an innocent woman for no reason whatsoever? The Inquisitor knows there will always be casualties and he/she can only do whatever's best to avoid as many as possible.
Also it's not about whether or not he's a good or bad person so much as the fact that by releasing him I'm going to be causing more damage. I will be distressing the family of the victims who think to themselves that the murderer of their loved ones will be walking around, I will be desecrating the memory of the real Blackwall by letting a person who he was good to and who has spent all this time pretending to be him in order to save his own butt get off Scott free, I will be killing someone if I pick Leliana, I will be killing multiple people if I kill Cullen and I will cause extremely tense relations between the Inquisition and Val Royeaux that would not only be bad for the Inquisition, but might cause one of the people who blames Reiner for his awful deeds do something stupid that they might regret. And let's not forget that if it wasn't for the Inquisitor being a good role model, Blackwall would have let that man hang in the gallows in his place.
On the contrary, the real Blackwall believed he deserved a chance. Who are we to disagree.
On the contrary, the real Blackwall believed he deserved a chance. Who are we to disagree.
By stealing his identity in order to avoid legal justice?
Or rather "save" him.
Why did you do it? I don't see why anyone would. For one thing, it's the justice system and that's how it works. Not to mention that he willingly decided to do it and I figured I'd respect his wishes.
So for anyone who brought Blackwall back to Skyhold, what was your reasoning? I feel like even if you romanced him you wouldn't do that, but that's just my thought.
I'm somewhat amused at the concept that anything in Orlais--a country where nobles murder each other on a regular basis and call it a "Game" has anything that can be REMOTELY described as a JUSTICE system. If Gaspard had won his bid for the throne, Blackwall might have been created a noble as a REWARD. So how is it just to punish him for something that other Orlesians do all the time?
This is also a "Justice system" that cheerfully executed Blackwall's men--who thought they were obeying a legal order--because they couldn't find Blackwall.
Executing him would be a pointless waste.
By stealing his identity in order to avoid legal justice?
If you spare him you ask him what you should call him and he says he's used to Blackwall, but that you should "think of it as a title, something to aspire to".
And legal justice isn't always just. I let him live because i believe he deserved another chance. He tortured himself with what he did for, what...10 years? He didn't live, he didn't escape. And he didn't do it because he wanted to. Bad orders.
I'm somewhat amused at the concept that anything in Orlais--a country where nobles murder each other on a regular basis and call it a "Game" has anything that can be REMOTELY described as a JUSTICE system. If Gaspard had won his bid for the throne, Blackwall might have been created a noble as a REWARD. So how is it just to punish him for something that other Orlesians do all the time?
This is also a "Justice system" that cheerfully executed Blackwall's men--who thought they were obeying a legal order--because they couldn't find Blackwall.
Executing him would be a pointless waste.
And let's not forget, if a Chevalier sees a peasant woman he wants, it's perfectly legal for him to just rape her.
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