291 réponses à ce sujet

[Firky]

I was romancing him and was totally shocked. So I dumped him. I've never dumped a character in a game before.

 

Sadly, there was no breakup dialogue after that, no recriminations and angst. It was like we never were. (Passive aggressive meany pants.) (I wonder if the designers expected no-one to break up with him. Just a flag and a line of dialogue would have done me.)

 

Unfortunately, I was playing on nightmare and needed him, so I did the Grey Warden thing. It was more of a meta-decision. But, I suppose you could also justify it in game.

[Jackums]

Servitude to the Inquisition.
 

Being paralyzed with fear and doubt =/= intentionally slaughtering kids.

Inaction is as much a conscious choice as plunging the swords into them himself.

[BabyPuncher]

Pray tell, how should it have progressed/resolved?

Dunno. Depends on what resources are available. As is, the character arcs in Inquisition are probably too short to build really powerful moments.

Resources aside, If you gave me a paycheck for a few hundred dollars and a few hours with a room full of reasonably intelligent people to bounce ideas off of, I'm sure I could come up with something.

One thing I can say is there should not be an option for Blackwall to be pardoned and have that be the end of it. All choices should involve him paying some sort of consequence.

[Fearsome1]

Because he was my friend, he regretted what he did and i figured i would give him a chance. He becomes a GW without becoming a GW to try and change what he did and make the world better. "So the world wouldn't lose a good man".

 

He pledges himself to the Inquisition. He figured he could give justice to people he wronged by giving himself up, but I figured he could do more stopping the apocalypse. In my opinion, he deserved a second chance. He made amends when he stopped hiding and owned up to it.

 

I agree with the quoted comment.

 

To the original poster, I would ask did you never spare Loghain in the original game? His possible appearance as the Warden Companion alongside Hawke is in effect a template for forgiving past wrongs in service to the greater good.

[Dieb]

To the original poster, I would ask did you never spare Loghain in the original game? His possible appearance as the Warden Companion alongside Hawke is in effect a template for forgiving past wrongs in service to the greater good.

 

(Hijacking that cause I'm a bored brat.)

 

Does Loghain feel sorry for what he's done? To the point were he openly admits it and is ashamed to his bones? Does he agree that his actions were terribly misguided and actually wants to spend the rest of his life making it up to basically anybody, by his own free will?

 

Loghain freed Ferelden from the Orlesians, and did heroic things during that war, but that is also not exactly altruism. And it is ever the more so, a simple matter of perspective. First and foremost however, he was playing for his team, and his heroism stems naturally from a reluctancy to be killed. He was an incredibly skilled soldier who thus succeeded in reaching the goal of the side he was on. Other than Rainier, he's an opportunist and far too certain of himself. The thing about him is, his character never changes, only the way he processes data. Who knows when is the next time he changes his mind about what's best for Ferelden? He's essentially a reverse-Rainier.

 

Nobody needs to be dead. Personally, I would spare Loghain of course - he's disarmed and can simply be imprisoned. Which I would do, since Loghain cannot be trusted at his age & with the things he's seen and done. If there was an option to talk Alistair down in a different fashion than the answers provided, I would want to tell him not to sink onto his level, rather than full-on joining "Team Loghain". Hence I always let Alistair decide, and that hardly ends well for his health, sadly.

 

TL;DR

The decision to kill someone out of spite is detached from whether they're eventually going to redeem themselves or not. At least for me.

[MyKingdomCold]

Sure, but with Loghain the decision to spare him or not happened right after you defeat him. I don't think you know whether or not he was remorseful or shameful. He probably didn't feel either of those at the time you spared him

[DarkKnightHolmes]

Blackwall crime don't seem to stand out for me.

 

Zevran was an assassin. Sten killed a family. Leliana kills in the name of the game in DAO and wants to kill even more people in DAI. Morrigan killed Templars with Flemeth back in the Wilds and has no problem trying to kill everyone we meet in DAO. Loghain kills in the name of Fereldan multiple time in DAO and The Stolen Throne. Oghren killed somebody in the Proving in rage. Shale really seems to have no problem in trying to kill people. Isabela sunk a whole ship full of innocent slave to save her own skin in her comic book. Iron Bull is a mercenary and has probably killed innocents for money before. Cole went around killing people in the Orlais Circle.

 

If I can accept these people into my ranks without blinking an eye then I can live with Blackwalls mistake. At least he feels guilt for what he did compared to some companions.

[Andraste_Reborn]

You left out Alistair insisting on Loghain's execution, Velanna slaughtering whole companies of humans because of something they hadn't even done, Sebastian insisting that Anders be killed on the spot without even as much of a trial as Loghain had, and Fenris ... being Fenris. Varric will kill his own brother even though Bartrand is disarmed and defenceless, depending on the circumstances.

 

If were were limited to companions who never kill or at least want to kill people in cold blood, we'd be left with Wynne, maybe Nathaniel, maybe Sigrun, Aveline, Bethany, Carver, Merrill, Cassandra, Cullen, Dorian and Josephine. And that group includes a guy who broke into your fortress initially intending to kill you, a career thief, a cop who looks the other way every time Hawke breaks the law, someone who joins the Templars despite his own siblings and father being apostates, a blood mage who consorts with demons, an ex-Templar who followed Meredith willingly for years as she got more and more extreme, and man who defends slavery. And someone who accidentally pushed someone down the stairs to their death, after entering a profession she must have known involved killing people. None of our companions are perfect.

 

What Blackwall did was awful, but I don't think it's really more awful than what - for example - Loghain or Isabela did.

[In Exile]

Wait, Aveline? I can understand the others, but Aveline?

She is a pretty terrible and hypocritical captain. But I'm not sure her coddling her men and protecting criminals and rapists is on par.

[Dieb]

For the sake of the discussion's general direction, I think we must establish here that this a video game, and everybody willingly ends the life of people instead of taking the time to talk it out.

 

So let's use the term murder not interchangeably with "killing people in combat because they belong to the enemy faction".

 

For example, I can see Leliana stabbing someone with dubious if not direct ties to the enemy who is unarmed in a stealthy assassination to advance the Inquisitions goals; but I do have a hard time picturing hot-headed, generally loathed Carver attacking a non-combatant with his Greatsword in a similar fashion.

[Todd23]

Hello, I hated Blackwall and I still "saved" him.  The reason I did it was because after everything, the lies, him telling us we can use the right of conscription, and even the fact that the game forced me to pretend like I fully beleived him when you could tell he was hiding something.  I felt like I was owed; I deserved to judge him for myself.  And despite how I felt about him I recruited him into the grey wardens.  I'm not like Alistair where I believe being a grey warden is an honor for heroes.  It's a calling.  Duncan was recruited from the hangman's nuce for murdering a warden commander.  Blackwall is able to inspire the wardens at the keep where we go into the fade at, the very ones I recruited into my Inquisition.  He was meant to become a grey warden to begin with.  I allowed the death sentence that comes with being a grey warden to be considerred his punishment and looked at the big picture (much like I did with Loghain).

[Hanako Ikezawa]

 

No one is innocent in orlais

Factually incorrect. 

 

Neither Blackwall, nor Thom Rainier have ever been murderers.

Also factually incorrect. What Rainier did was murder. In no way, shape, or form is what he did not murder. 

[9TailsFox]

Blackwall crime don't seem to stand out for me.

 

Zevran was an assassin. Sten killed a family. Leliana kills in the name of the game in DAO and wants to kill even more people in DAI. Morrigan killed Templars with Flemeth back in the Wilds and has no problem trying to kill everyone we meet in DAO. Loghain kills in the name of Fereldan multiple time in DAO and The Stolen Throne. Oghren killed somebody in the Proving in rage. Shale really seems to have no problem in trying to kill people. Isabela sunk a whole ship full of innocent slave to save her own skin in her comic book. Iron Bull is a mercenary and has probably killed innocents for money before. Cole went around killing people in the Orlais Circle.

 

If I can accept these people into my ranks without blinking an eye then I can live with Blackwalls mistake. At least he feels guilt for what he did compared to some companions.

Finally this is exactly my opinion half of our companions is worse, Blakwall not even close to being "bad" opposite he is easily most good and honorable in Inquisition. Evil person don't try to be good and fix his past mistakes. Sten kill murdered family for no reason, Zevran job is to kill people and he try to kill warden everyone love them. whats fine, Blackwall lie burn him in hell.

 

And most funny think is people don't judge him because he killed someone for coin. "I romanced him and he lied so he dies"   This is most stupid reason i can come up with for punishing him. If you hate him just leave him in jail.

[vertigomez]

In the words of a wise elf, "We all do our share of murdering around here, don't we?"

[Dabrikishaw]

 

Blackwall crime don't seem to stand out for me.

 

Zevran was an assassin. Sten killed a family. Leliana kills in the name of the game in DAO and wants to kill even more people in DAI. Morrigan killed Templars with Flemeth back in the Wilds and has no problem trying to kill everyone we meet in DAO. Loghain kills in the name of Fereldan multiple time in DAO and The Stolen Throne. Oghren killed somebody in the Proving in rage. Shale really seems to have no problem in trying to kill people. Isabela sunk a whole ship full of innocent slave to save her own skin in her comic book. Iron Bull is a mercenary and has probably killed innocents for money before. Cole went around killing people in the Orlais Circle.

 

If I can accept these people into my ranks without blinking an eye then I can live with Blackwalls mistake. At least he feels guilt for what he did compared to some companions.

 

 

You left out Alistair insisting on Loghain's execution, Velanna slaughtering whole companies of humans because of something they hadn't even done, Sebastian insisting that Anders be killed on the spot without even as much of a trial as Loghain had, and Fenris ... being Fenris. Varric will kill his own brother even though Bartrand is disarmed and defenceless, depending on the circumstances.

 

If were were limited to companions who never kill or at least want to kill people in cold blood, we'd be left with Wynne, maybe Nathaniel, maybe Sigrun, Aveline, Bethany, Carver, Merrill, Cassandra, Cullen, Dorian and Josephine. And that group includes a guy who broke into your fortress initially intending to kill you, a career thief, a cop who looks the other way every time Hawke breaks the law, someone who joins the Templars despite his own siblings and father being apostates, a blood mage who consorts with demons, an ex-Templar who followed Meredith willingly for years as she got more and more extreme, and man who defends slavery. And someone who accidentally pushed someone down the stairs to their death, after entering a profession she must have known involved killing people. None of our companions are perfect.

 

What Blackwall did was awful, but I don't think it's really more awful than what - for example - Loghain or Isabela did.

 

 

Right, If I can accept having other murders and criminals into my party, especially as love interests, I don't need much reasoning to spare Blackwall. It's not my fault Bioware made most of our companions that way.

[9TailsFox]

 

 

Factually incorrect. 

 

Also factually incorrect. What Rainier did was murder. In no way, shape, or form is what he did not murder. 

 

So if Inquisitor let Celine die, Inquisitor murdered her.

[Dieb]

What Rainier did was murder. In no way, shape, or form is what he did not murder. 

 

To adopt your warmhearted & diplomatic intellectual-on-the-internet-phrasing, "your correction is semantically incorrect." (hurr! durr!)

 

I never said he wasn't downright guilty of a murder that has been carried out, but he isn't a murderer.

 

He didn't want them dead. Never. A murderer may, at best, regret his decision that an indvidual had to die - which was never the case with Rainier. He doesn't share the mindset, if you will.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Blackwall crime don't seem to stand out for me.

 

Zevran was an assassin. Sten killed a family. Leliana kills in the name of the game in DAO and wants to kill even more people in DAI. Morrigan killed Templars with Flemeth back in the Wilds and has no problem trying to kill everyone we meet in DAO. Loghain kills in the name of Fereldan multiple time in DAO and The Stolen Throne. Oghren killed somebody in the Proving in rage. Shale really seems to have no problem in trying to kill people. Isabela sunk a whole ship full of innocent slave to save her own skin in her comic book. Iron Bull is a mercenary and has probably killed innocents for money before. Cole went around killing people in the Orlais Circle.

You left out Alistair insisting on Loghain's execution, Velanna slaughtering whole companies of humans because of something they hadn't even done, Sebastian insisting that Anders be killed on the spot without even as much of a trial as Loghain had, and Fenris ... being Fenris. Varric will kill his own brother even though Bartrand is disarmed and defenceless, depending on the circumstances.

Wish we can have them face justice for their actions too.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

For the sake of the discussion's general direction, I think we must establish here that this a video game, and everybody willingly ends the life of people instead of taking the time to talk it out.

 

So let's use the term murder not interchangeably with "killing people in combat because they belong to the enemy faction".

 

For example, I can see Leliana stabbing someone with dubious if not direct ties to the enemy who is unarmed in a stealthy assassination to advance the Inquisitions goals; but I do have a hard time picturing hot-headed, generally loathed Carver attacking a non-combatant with his Greatsword in a similar fashion.

I don't. Whenever there is an option to murder someone, I don't take it. The only times my character ever kills is either in self-defense or in the defense of others. 

 

It wasn't a combat situation. Rainier took the assassination contract and had him and his men ambush the carriage. That's murder. 

 

To adopt your warmhearted & diplomatic intellectual-on-the-internet-phrasing, "your correction is semantically incorrect." (hurr! durr!)

 

I never said he wasn't downright guilty of a murder that has been carried out, but he isn't a murderer.

 

He didn't want them dead. Never. A murderer may, at best, regret his decision that an indvidual had to die - which was never the case with Rainier. He doesn't share the mindset, if you will.

Nonsense. He took gold to kill them. He is no different than Zevran. Both are murderers. 

[raging_monkey]

Factually incorrect.

Also factually incorrect. What Rainier did was murder. In no way, shape, or form is what he did not murder.

the game rules orlais everybody guilty whether the know it or not all are pawns in some bodies play. Sure they aren't outright playing but will aide others hence guilty by association what happen was accident the op fubar so acceptable casualties apply. Sides if he felt guilty and spent x years redeeming himself he absolves himself. Seems like your trying to uphold him to a impossible standard we all committed some form of homicide as the pc do you believe the over should be asked "spend life in jail / execution "

[Hanako Ikezawa]

So if Inquisitor let Celine die, Inquisitor murdered her.

Since intentionally letting it happen when they know whose going to do it and when, the Inquisitor would be guilty of being an accessory to murder. 

 

the game rules orlais everybody guilty whether the know it or not all are pawns in some bodies play. Sure they aren't outright playing but will aide others hence guilty by association what happen was accident the op fubar so acceptable casualties apply. Sides if he felt guilty and spent x years redeeming himself he absolves himself. Seems like your trying to uphold him to a impossible standard we all committed some form of homicide as the pc do you believe the over should be asked "spend life in jail / execution "

Again, regardless of culture(in this case, The Game) a person who has done nothing wrong is an innocent. Rainier killed innocent people for coin. 

[berelinde]

Blackwall was always meant to be a divisive character, but I find it odd that so many people find his crimes unforgivable, especially when others who have done much worse get a free pass.

 

All of my characters spare his life because death accomplishes nothing. Who benefits by his death? The Colliers don't. They're still dead. The Inquisition doesn't. They'd lose out on an excellent warrior. The people of Orlais don't. He isn't a threat to them, so killing him isn't going to change a damn thing about their lives one way or another. "Justice"? Lots of things are done in the name of justice, and not all of them are right. Retribution? Hey, if somebody wants to cut off their nose to spite their face, I'm not going to stop them, but that doesn't make it less absurd. Dead, he's just another victim of the Game. Alive, he has a chance to atone for his crimes. He seems to think that he should dedicate the rest of his life to this. That satisfies the demands of justice, IMO. He's giving his life for his crimes. He's just doing it in a way that allows some good to come of it.

 

After he's spared, some of my characters opt to sentence him to join the Wardens for real and others prefer that he do his community service voluntarily under his own name. He isn't sparing himself. Heck, he's harder on himself than most of the Inquisitors who don't send him to the Wardens.

 

So yeah, if you decide to let him hang for his crimes, one more person dies for stupid political reasons. If you spare him, he dedicates his life to the service of others. Of all the decisions in Inquisition, this is one of the easiest.

[vertigomez]

Wish we can have them face justice for their actions too.

...Wat? Putting their life on the line with the intention of saving the world (stopping the Blight, sealing the Breach, etc.) isn't justice enough?

[raging_monkey]

Since intentionally letting it happen when they know whose going to do it and when, the Inquisitor would be guilty of being an accessory to murder.


Again, regardless of culture(in this case, The Game) a person who has done nothing wrong is an innocent. Rainier killed innocent people for coin.

and the pc kills by my count over a dozen sometimes get "donations" what blackwall was just a Tuesday doing what he thought was best for his nation

[raging_monkey]

...Wat? Putting their life on the line with the intention of saving the world (stopping the Blight, sealing the Breach, etc.) isn't justice enough?

nope apparently not