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The importance and value of narrative in video games

Débuté par o Ventus , mai 25 2015 12:08

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#251
Guest_TrillClinton_*
Posté 28 mai 2015 - 12:58

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Planescape Torment has a terrible gameplay but people continue to praise it because of the well written story/characters.
I think it's a bad game, though.


Planetscape torment had awful combat, Arcanum was a piece of **** when it came to combat. I will say thus though, gameplay does not only define a combat system. Leveling up is gameplay, choosing a dialogue tree us gameplay, changing inventory is gameplay. In that aspect, apart from arcanum combat being laughable I did enjoy other aspects of it's system.

I can't defend PS:T, I think it is an okay game. However, I feel like other people name drop it in order to sound cultured.
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#252
Voxr
Posté 28 mai 2015 - 01:02

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Planescape Torment is the pinnacle of gaming experiences.

 

Snark, snark, culture, smirk. 


#253
A Crusty Knight Of Colour
Posté 28 mai 2015 - 01:19

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PS:T is easy to namedrop but I get more triggered by people doing the same with Mass Effect or BioShock honestly.

The "artistic integrity" and "Citizen Kane of gaming" angles pushed by the media was particularly galling because it made the snobbery hipsterism socially acceptable and mainstream. Whereas PS:T is still a niche thing to be snobbish about.

FFS, they don't even know what that phrase means. Citizen Kane was groundbreaking not because it had a "2deep4u story with symbolism" as the gaming press would have you believe, it's legacy was the proliferation of new cinematic techniques (cinematography) and ideas that would later become standard, while having a compelling story to go with it. Marriage of technique and narrative.

Gaming's Citizen Kane came in 1991 and it was Ultima Underworld. Both are examples of incredibly important milestones in their respective mediums but because of that, they have not aged well at all. Simply because many of the groundbreaking ideas they brought to the table have since been iterated and refined.
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#254
Seboist
Posté 28 mai 2015 - 01:33

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PS:T is easy to namedrop but I get more triggered by people doing the same with Mass Effect or BioShock honestly.

The "artistic integrity" and "Citizen Kane of gaming" angles pushed by the media was particularly galling because it made the snobbery hipsterism socially acceptable and mainstream. Whereas PS:T is still a niche thing to be snobbish about.

FFS, they don't even know what that phrase means. Citizen Kane was groundbreaking not because it had a "2deep4u story with symbolism" as the gaming press would have you believe, it's legacy was the proliferation of new cinematic techniques (cinematography) and ideas that would later become standard, while having a compelling story to go with it.

Gaming's Citizen Kane came in 1991 and it was Ultima Underworld. Like Citizen Kane, it'd be pretty dated today because many of the groundbreaking ideas it brought to the table have since been iterated and refined.

 

Mass Effect is such a poorly written, inconsistent and idiotic schlock series that it defies belief that anyone would point to it as an example of quality storytelling or as example of video games not being the bottom of the barrel of mediums.

 

Seriously, a "science fiction" story where death itself is cured and it gets treated as if the guy just woke up from afternoon nap and is the butt of jokes? F out of here with that nonsense.


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#255
Guest_Catch This Fade_*
Posté 28 mai 2015 - 01:34

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Mass Effect is such a poorly written, inconsistent and idiotic schlock series that it defies belief that anyone would point to it as an example quality storytelling or as example of video games not being the bottom of the barrel of mediums.

 

Seriously, a "science fiction" story where death itself is cured and it gets treated as if the guy just woke up from afternoon nap and is the butt of jokes? F out of here with that nonsense.

No chill when it comes to Mass Effect. :lol:


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#256
Seraphim24
Posté 28 mai 2015 - 01:35

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PS:T is easy to namedrop but I get more triggered by people doing the same with Mass Effect or BioShock honestly.

The "artistic integrity" and "Citizen Kane of gaming" angles pushed by the media was particularly galling because it made the snobbery hipsterism socially acceptable and mainstream. Whereas PS:T is still a niche thing to be snobbish about.

FFS, they don't even know what that phrase means. Citizen Kane was groundbreaking not because it had a "2deep4u story with symbolism" as the gaming press would have you believe, it's legacy was the proliferation of new cinematic techniques (cinematography) and ideas that would later become standard, while having a compelling story to go with it. Marriage of technique and narrative.

Gaming's Citizen Kane came in 1991 and it was Ultima Underworld. Like Citizen Kane, it'd be pretty dated today because many of the groundbreaking ideas it brought to the table have since been iterated and refined.

 

Citizen Kane sucked also, that's important.


#257
Sigma Tauri
Posté 28 mai 2015 - 02:05

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I knew Leo8Skylar's going to mention Birdman somewhere.


#258
Voxr
Posté 28 mai 2015 - 02:18

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Spoiler


#259
Sigma Tauri
Posté 28 mai 2015 - 02:25

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Too many cynical people.

-Leo8Skylar

 

DhAdEsw.gif


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#260
A Crusty Knight Of Colour
Posté 28 mai 2015 - 02:28

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https://www.youtube....h?v=4utKWsS52I8

Spoiler


Adult Swim series >>>>>

#261
Voxr
Posté 28 mai 2015 - 02:34

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More like Adult Wade 


#262
Drone223
Posté 28 mai 2015 - 02:56

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A game without a proper story is unplayable to me. A game without proper gameplay is playable to me. The gameplay is there to serve the storyline, If it's strong it can bolster the experience. But if it's there without a proper story, concept or thematic atmosphere, Then it's practically useless.

I disagree,  a game with good gameplay but a bad story will eventually become repetitive, a game with bad gameplay but a good story will become a chore to playthrough. Bad gameplay is capable of ruining a good story so its important for games that are story focus to have good gameplay to go with it since it'll add replay value.


#263
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Posté 28 mai 2015 - 03:03

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I disagree,  a game with good gameplay but a bad story will eventually become repetitive, a game with bad gameplay but a good story will become a chore to playthrough. Bad gameplay is capable of ruining a good story so its important for games that are story focus to have good gameplay to go with it since it'll add replay value.

An example of this, for me, is Kingdom Hearts. In subsequent playthroughs after the charm of the story has worn off my play time is spent really delving into the mechanics I may have overlooked or just didn't spend enough time with the fist time. So the gameplay features are what's really holding my interest after the first run. Just to illustrate how important it is for replay value.


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#264
A Crusty Knight Of Colour
Posté 28 mai 2015 - 03:29

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Slightly off topic but I enjoyed Final Fantasy Tactics a lot. It's funny. It's great example of both a good story and good gameplay yet the hard segregation between the two is pretty awful. Competent writers, competent designers but zero effort into medium-fitting storytelling techniques. It's very much divided into story cutscenes and gameplay sequences.

It kind of holds it's own regardless, but Reezy talking about Kingdom Hearts made me think of Japanese devs in general and how traditional they are with how they go about things.

People misread that and think stagnation. That's wrong, Japanese devs aren't in the way Westerners thinks of the term but they tend to value proven concepts over experimental ones. Making innovations through iteration rather than sweeping changes to design or narrative philosophies from game to game. Just look at Dragon Age and how it transformed from fantasy KotOR to single player fantasy SWTOR.

Makes me wonder if the success of games like the Souls series and how it approaches storytelling through atmosphere, level design and minimalist notes/dialog will begin to filter to other Japanese devs. Maybe we'll see a paradigm shift and see less cutscene centric storytelling from Japan in the future.
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#265
Guest_AugmentedAssassin_*
Posté 28 mai 2015 - 03:30

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I disagree,  a game with good gameplay but a bad story will eventually become repetitive, a game with bad gameplay but a good story will become a chore to playthrough. Bad gameplay is capable of ruining a good story so its important for games that are story focus to have good gameplay to go with it since it'll add replay value.

 

Meh. I respect your point of view, But a good story can redeem bad gameplay to me. If the gameplay is perfected as well, Then the experience would be complete.


#266
Guest_TrillClinton_*
Posté 28 mai 2015 - 03:57

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Meh. I respect your point of view, But a good story can redeem bad gameplay to me. If the gameplay is perfected as well, Then the experience would be complete.


You should read visual novels

#267
The Love Runner
Posté 28 mai 2015 - 04:21

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I have TLoU sitting next my PS3 waiting to be played.
 
I hope Naughty Dog improved from Uncharted because that felt like a Chinese knock-off of Indiana Jones lol.


I enjoyed playing Last of Us on my PS3 when I borrowed it from a friend, but when I played the PS4 version on another friend's PS4, it was like I was playing the GOD-TIER version.

#268
Cunning Villain
Posté 28 mai 2015 - 04:25

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PS:T is easy to namedrop but I get more triggered by people doing the same with Mass Effect or BioShock honestly.

The "artistic integrity" and "Citizen Kane of gaming" angles pushed by the media was particularly galling because it made the snobbery hipsterism socially acceptable and mainstream. Whereas PS:T is still a niche thing to be snobbish about.

FFS, they don't even know what that phrase means. Citizen Kane was groundbreaking not because it had a "2deep4u story with symbolism" as the gaming press would have you believe, it's legacy was the proliferation of new cinematic techniques (cinematography) and ideas that would later become standard, while having a compelling story to go with it. Marriage of technique and narrative.

Gaming's Citizen Kane came in 1991 and it was Ultima Underworld. Both are examples of incredibly important milestones in their respective mediums but because of that, they have not aged well at all. Simply because many of the groundbreaking ideas they brought to the table have since been iterated and refined.

 

I'm not sure how this will be received, but I'd say if anything is the "Citizen Kane of gaming" in regards to innovation -- at least in the "modern" era of gaming -- it's Resident Evil 4. That game "changed the game," so to speak.


#269
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Posté 28 mai 2015 - 04:32

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For me a citizen Kane of gaming would be doom. It heavily influenced concepts that people are still using today. John's code he wrote is still being used today. I need to check how much influence it had on Half Life. My god half life is quality.

#270
wolfhowwl
Posté 28 mai 2015 - 04:32

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Citizen Kane was The Last of Us of film.


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#271
Voxr
Posté 28 mai 2015 - 04:35

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What about Black Ops D:


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#272
KotorEffect3
Posté 29 mai 2015 - 02:58

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There's always that ignore thing. Which I'm sure he'll resort to for any user he feels is part of the big bad Clique

Oh you've been on my blocklist for ages.  You are nothing more to me than an annoyance who tends to start following me around when he sees me posting in any thread.  Either that or you trash talk about me even when I go months at a time not bothering to post in the same threads or forums that you post in.  Oh and the clique thing is from well over a year ago.  Yeah I didn't like your clique.  Get over it.


#273
o Ventus
Posté 29 mai 2015 - 02:59

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Oh you've been on my blocklist for ages.  You are nothing more to me than an annoyance who tends to start following me around when he sees me posting in any thread.  Either that or you trash talk about me even when I go months at a time not bothering to post in the same threads or forums that you post in.  Oh and the clique thing is from well over a year ago.  Yeah I didn't like your clique.  Get over it.

 

Then why do you keep responding to him?


#274
KotorEffect3
Posté 29 mai 2015 - 03:11

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Then why do you keep responding to him?

And why do you care?  You and I have never liked each other either but I don't see how this is your fight.


#275
Guest_Catch This Fade_*
Posté 29 mai 2015 - 03:11

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Then why do you keep responding to him?

I'm worth the effort. It's flattering, if nothing else.


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