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[A Crusty Knight Of Colour]

Most video game writers aren't very good video game writers. Not that they are dumb or anything, but that they struggle to tell stories within the context of their chosen medium. A lot of games are capable at presenting high minded concepts, but struggle at actually using them effectively through the gameplay.

That's not necessarily bad. Tolkien is a famous example. Probably the best worldbuilder in all of fiction but his wordplay and ability to convey concepts/themes through his writing was very poor for someone of his pedigree. Likewise in video games, storytelling is rather rudimentary and poor. Even if focus on dialog has massively increased/improved. We are in 2015 and the environmental non-cutscene storytelling technique of System Shock 2 in 1998 is still considered cutting edge and difficult to top. Case in point, BioShock imitates it and is considered one of the greatest of all time.

The default way for video game writers to get around this weakness in their ability is simply to imitate film and segregate their games into "story/cinematic" sections and "game/busywork" sections with zero interlap. People masturbate over Kojima and he's probably the worst example of it because he's not a David Cage level hack.

I appreciate games with good story but I appreciate games more that have good storytelling because those are few and far between . The writing might not be high minded, the dialogue might not contain purple prose, but they are games that can communicate their themes through gameplay, level design, etc. Things that the player can interact with.

Thief is probably the best example of what I'm talking about. Hell, any Looking Glass game will do. They understood the concept better than any other studio.

Since this is an RPG forum though, I'll give two RPG examples: Morrowind and Bloodlines.

As for BioShock, 1 and 2 were solid games. I actually plan to replay them soon. I think Infinite looks fantastic graphically and dealt with complex ideologies but went off the deep end when Ken "I like quantum mechanics and made them central to my game because it makes me feel dumb since I have no idea how it works" Levine started going on about parallel universes and stuff.

[Loremich12]

For me a good story is very relevant in how much I'll like the game. The gameplay can be awful and the graphics can look like the awkward cousin of Minecraft but if the story is interesting to me chances are that I'll love the game or at least like it. For instance, I'm a big fan of the Telltale Games... uh... games because of the way they present their stories. But I've heard enough people saying that they are not really games because of their lack of gameplay. They might be right but for me they are giving me what I want, interactive storytelling. This is another reason why To The Moon is a favorite "game" of mine. The story was so wonderful to me that I just completely ignored the lackluster gameplay and the 16-bit graphics. I would go through the most boring gameplay if the story is really good and pushes me to get to the end. That is sort of what happen with me in dragon age: origins. I had the misfortune of playing it for the first time in console while being the first RPG I play in my life. I did not enjoyed the gameplay and it wasn't a particularly beautiful game but despite of this I kept going and push through and played it multiple times because I was really enjoying the story the characters and the universe. (This was also my first Bioware game)

 

Now, the other way around is more difficult to me. If the gameplay is fantastic amazing and super fun but the story is not engaging me in any level or way I have a harder time enjoying the game. I'm not even asking for a masterpiece like Bioshock, I am open to many types of stories. But if the game is not even trying to tell something interesting chances are I won't finish it. Is not impossible for me to like those games, it simply doesn't happen that often. Skyrim is an example of a game where I enjoy the gameplay but not so much the story. I'm not saying it is bad, I'm just saying it didn't pique my interest. That made my experience difficult but I still recognize it to be worthy of putting in my Games shelf It also helped to create a story of my own in my head. Thank God for blessing me with a great imagination xD Assassins Creed: Black Flag as well was so much fun but the story was just okay to me.

 

Whether I have a good taste in stories or not is a completely different matter. I don't necessarily like every game with good writing. I'm very subjective when it comes to that. And some times gameplay does stop me from experiencing a good story. Bioshock 1 and 2 had this problem to me. Claustrophobia and jump scares don't go well with me. I started playing Bioshock 1 but gave up because my heart wasn't dealing to well with that. Instead, I opted to watch the story on youtube which is really a shame (I know! I hate myself enough for it but I was weak) since is not the same. Needless to say I do not play, watch or hear anything related to horror. I did play Infinite and loved it but I will agree that the ending got a little too crazy for my taste.

 

I have noticed that good storytelling in games has made me more interested in gaming. I used to play a couple games in past consoles mainly platforms (Crash Bandicoot fan here) because naively I thought that all games could offer was a bit of fun (also i had a rigid mother with an insane censorship filter ). Once I started playing games for their stories my experience change completely and made me more passionate about them. That's why  in my opinion more people now days are willing to give games a chance. With the right game you can open a whole new world to a person who has never bother to look into it. Today I know they can offer amazing experiences while encouraging you to interact to some level with a story. I love games for that reason though I'm not going to say that gameplay is not important. My favorite games as of now is Red Dead Redemption and Uncharted 2 since I believe they have a good balance between story and gameplay.  (This being my personal opinion, of course.)  There are still so many other games I want to play but haven't had the opportunity to do so, so my favorites might not be saying much.

 

As always Ventus great questions you have. Seems only proper to finish my little essay with a question for you. What other games do you love for their story? (Besides Bioshock of course)

[Loremich12]

Most video game writers aren't very good video game writers. Not that they are dumb or anything, but that they struggle to tell stories within the context of their chosen medium. A lot of games are capable at presenting high minded concepts, but struggle at actually using them effectively through the gameplay.

That's not necessarily bad. Tolkien is a famous example. Probably the best worldbuilder in all of fiction but his wordplay and ability to convey concepts/themes through his writing was very poor for someone of his pedigree. Likewise in video games, storytelling is rather rudimentary and poor. Even if focus on dialog has massively increased/improved. We are in 2015 and the environmental non-cutscene storytelling technique of System Shock 2 in 1998 is still considered cutting edge and difficult to top. Case in point, BioShock imitates it and is considered one of the greatest of all time.

The default way for video game writers to get around this weakness in their ability is simply to imitate film and segregate their games into "story/cinematic" sections and "game/busywork" sections with zero interlap. People masturbate over Kojima and he's probably the worst example of it because he's not a David Cage level hack.

I appreciate games with good story but I appreciate games more that have good storytelling because those are few and far between . The writing might not be high minded, the dialogue might not contain purple prose, but they are games that can communicate their themes through gameplay, level design, etc. Things that the player can interact with.

Thief is probably the best example of what I'm talking about. Hell, any Looking Glass game will do. They understood the concept better than any other studio.

Since this is an RPG forum though, I'll give two RPG examples: Morrowind and Bloodlines.

As for BioShock, 1 and 2 were solid games. I actually plan to replay them soon. I think Infinite looks fantastic graphically and dealt with complex ideologies but went off the deep end when Ken "I like quantum mechanics and made them central to my game because it makes me feel dumb since I have no idea how it works" Levine started going on about parallel universes and stuff.

That's a very interesting opinion Crusty Knight. Not long ago I was discussing with my boyfriend how much the gameplay of a game affects the narrative of its story. The conversation came from DAI main story. How it had good story ideas but in game they didn't reach their full potential. We don't necessarily think that Bioware's writers are bad because the ideas we like are there. But as we played the game it felt like a bunch of missed opportunities. I guess that what you said is true, good video games writers are hard to come by since in this case is not enough to be good at writing a story.

[TheChris92]

The BioShock games are interesting examples, I can definitely understand the affection for them, I have my own share of affection for the first game, not to much the second one.

They are prime examples of the System Shock legacy -- Telling a story with as few cutscenes or set pieces as possible while instead the game would weave exposition into the narrative through its gameplay mechanics. In System Shock 2, you awaken on an abandoned ship with no one but this ominous A.I. to guide you around, as you slowly try to uncover the shocking truth of what happened (much like Peragus in KOTOR 2 -- one of my favorite parts of that game). Thief is similar in its approach to sprawly level-design where you're presented with several options of how to commit burglary while Garrett's cynical witty comments and snarks adds a certain charm to keep you invested, along with the guards you encounter during heists -- Their banter grants you insight into the steampunkish-fantasy realm you roam of which can help immerse you into the experience.

Half Life did the same too -- As a shooter it stood out with its less restrained level design and freedom; I've recently played Black Mesa and what a fantastic re-creation of Half Life 1 it is, as it showcases what games do best (atmosphere). Nothing is more tense than encountering those headcrap zombies all over again or visiting Ravenholm in Half Life 2. Oh, Valve, why have you forsaken the profession of game development

 

Silent Hill did it as well through the usage of symbolism -- The enemies you face are monstrosities shaped around the conscious anxieties and fears of the haunted town's inhabitants or more or less the inner psyche of the protagonist. The key word is atmosphere, something which you'd never find in a film because it's not possible to adapt something like that to cinema. There's something games can do that any other medium can't accomplish, and it's gratifying that it all grants its own unique experience.

[Kaiser Arian XVII]

I think 4 pages of story is enough for a shooter game. Doom 2 for example.

[Jester]

A game without a proper story is unplayable to me. A game without proper gameplay is playable to me. The gameplay is there to serve the storyline, If it's strong it can bolster the experience. But if it's there without a proper story, concept or thematic atmosphere, Then it's practically useless.

I have to agree. I'm one of the probably very few people, who enjoyed new Thief, and didn't enjoy one bit of Dishonored, despite the latter being a far, far better game in terms of gameplay mechanics and technology. However, Dishonored fails miserably, when it comes to characters and storyline. And even atmosphere. 

 

Games like Battlefield's SP are unplayable to me. 

However I love Bioshock series to death. 

 

For the same reason, I absolutely love Fallout: NV and despise Fallout 3. I absolutely fell in love with The Witcher 3, and think that Skyrim is mediocre at best. That's why I consider KotOR II vastly superior to KotOR I. Why I find Mass Effect series to be one of the best game franchises ever created. Why I liked the original Assassin's Creed more than it's predictable and black&white sequel. Why I think that Assassin's Creed: Revelations is the best part of Ezio's trilogy. Why I still consider Planescape: Torment to be one of the best games ever created, despite it's mechanics being serviceable at best...

[SlottsMachine]

Well I see others have mentioned System Shock 2, I am not needed. 

[Simfam]

narrative masterpiece. Mass Effect trilogy as well.

 

mfw

 

[A Crusty Knight Of Colour]

mfw

It's better than that Planescape junk. I mean Planescape isn't even a 3D Action game like Mass Effect. Why do RPG fans like it so much?

[Liamv2]

Story should inform gameplay and vice versa. Stuff you do in gameplay should influence the story and stuff you do in the story should affect the gameplay.

[Garryydde]

It's better than that Planescape junk. I mean Planescape isn't even a 3D Action game like Mass Effect. Why do RPG fans like it so much?

Planet Escape Tournament is boooooooooooooooooooooooooring, give me a real RPG like Gran Turismo or FIFA any day.

[Seraphim24]

I never see eye to eye with anyone on this topic, I'll just say that I doubt some of the games I like a ton I expect do not meet any particular standard so all I can do is shrug and not really understand what's going on, but I will pass on a few of those examples. I prefer them over the examples given to me in gaming that are "high literature" or whatever the phrase may be (such as Torment, SS2, Bioshock).

 

Illusion of Gaia

Earthbound

Valkyrie Profile

Secret of Mana

 

There are other examples but no one heralds or will probably ever herald these games in the same vein so I just go eh...

 

Moreover nowadays it's very hard to find video games where story and gameplay are properly integrated, if anything, I think "story" (in a traditional, dialogue-y sense) has become too pre-eminent, most games I play nowadays have really, really weak game design.

 

I think one of the reasons you have so many people with so many unfinished games lying around is they just aren't addicting to play, only a handful of companies (Nintendo, Blizzard) still properly invests in getting people to enjoy both aspects of a video game. Most mobile games for example have a few really addicting concepts but purposely are low-fi or jokey in the aesthetic, whereas many other mobile games but also modern MMOs or Korean games will look really pretty and flashy but be sluggish to play and enjoy.

[o Ventus]

I think Infinite looks fantastic graphically and dealt with complex ideologies but went off the deep end when Ken "I like quantum mechanics and made them central to my game because it makes me feel dumb since I have no idea how it works" Levine started going on about parallel universes and stuff.

I see where you're coming from with the bolded part. Prior to a few days ago, my only experience with Infinite had been on the Xbox, but having played it on PC, holy ***** it looks gorgeous at high settings.

 

Ditto for the complex ideologies bit. The first third of the game is a fair representation of early 20th century American  ideas of religion and racial equality, coupled with the heavy nationalism and patriotism that was prevalent in the era.

 

And yeah, the science in the game is hilariously bad, to the point where one could reasonably argue that it isn't actually science.

[Cyonan]

It depends on what kind of game it is for me.

 

I can enjoy games with little to no story but good gameplay just as I can enjoy games with weaker gameplay but good story, or games like Skyrim where you effectively create your own narrative through gameplay.

 

Although if I had to pick one, I'd say gameplay is more important to me. The only "cinematic story" game that I've really enjoyed is Life is Strange and even then, I'd not be putting it at the top of any lists.

 

Ideally you'd weave the story and gameplay together nicely like what Half-Life managed to pull off in 1998 alongside System Shock 2.

[Simfam]

It's better than that Planescape junk. I mean Planescape isn't even a 3D Action game like Mass Effect. Why do RPG fans like it so much?

 

Who needs a four page description of a brown wall anyway?

[Liamv2]

Given that most people don't even know what Mass Effect is essentially trying to do, I'm not surprised.

 

I always thought it was supposed to be a fun Sci-fi power fantasy adventure that got fluffed up by constant team changes. Am I wrong?

[Garryydde]

The narrative is trying to give an accurate and proper imagining of what the future might be. The way it was crafted, The Reapers, The Citadel, The Aliens, The Codex, Everything about it was done properly and in the right way. And every so-called "Plot hole" was left open for a reason. As a narrative necessity or a support point for a plot twist further ahead. Of course some people are just strictly looking popcorn to take the time to analyze the narrative in such a way.

Really?



You'e deluding yourself if you really think that the ME writers had everything all planned out from the beginning and every plot hole and inconsistency is deliberately thee to add depth or show some kind of meaning.