52 réponses à ce sujet

[OhNoWhyHow]

What ever happened to this archetype?  It used to be a Bioware staple.  Now it's been like 3+ games since we had one.

 

As a recap:

 

DAII

 

Fenris:  Serious MacBroodyPants

Anders: Thin slice of snarky crammed into serious.  Mostly he just rants about MAGE FREEDOOMM and mutters an occasional funny one-liner here and there.  Oh yea, then he goes crazy and blows up a Chantry.

 

ME3:

 

Kaidan: generic vanilla "nice guy" (and really a carry over from ME1)

Garrus: actually snarky (but a carryover)

 

DAI

 

Blackwall:  Serious MacBroodyPants Phase II with cliffhanger

Cullen: vanilla nice guy 

Solas: Spock with a few dry one-liners and a cliffhanger

Iron Bull: He at least passes the vaguely "amusing" test I suppose. 

 

Can we please get a snarky/non-cliffhanger romance again?  Think someone like Varric, Isabela, Dorian, etc. 

[vertigomez]

I think Cullen and Bull both fit the bill, in different ways.

Not that I'd object to Varric.

[Felya87]

When have ever been a stample of bioware non dramatic/ funny male LI? Alistair and Zevran may fit, but both have their big chunk of drama. (Ali expecially is a full time work to keep alive and in love with a non human noble character).

[Andraste_Reborn]

I actually can't think of anyone this fits apart from Garrus, Alistair and Zevran. And if we're ruling out Iron Bull on the grounds of his 'tragic core' then I'm not certain Alistair or Zevran tick all the boxes, either. Certainly Anomen Delryn, Carth Onasi and Sky don't. I mean, Sky can be pretty snarky, but his whole storyline centres around his dead wife and child.

 

Maybe there are some in SWTOR, I haven't played all of those romances.

[DarkKnightHolmes]

You forgot their other games:

 

KOTOR: Carth (Dead wife and missing son)

Jade Empire: Sky (Dead wife and dead daughter)

DAO: Alistair (Dead mentor and brother)

ME2: Thane (Dead wife) and Garrus (Dead squad)

 

Bioware loves their tragic men.

 

Also Blackwall barely broods. Most of the time he's happy. The only time he even shows sadness is around when the truth about him is about to be revealed.

[OhNoWhyHow]

Well, if people don't consider it a staple, that seems to suggest it's all the more rare.  Certainly something worth including as standing out from the pack.

 

Also, is Iron Bull really snarky?  He mostly just makes a few offhand sex jokes here and there and is otherwise pretty serious. 

 

*Edit* Blackwall not brooding?  Virtually every conversation you have with him is about his inner existential crisis and deep seated need for reassurance that second chances are possible and that story book good guys exist.  The only reason it doesn't seem brooding at first is because you don't know what he is until the end.  He's just more subtle than Fenris.

[Saphiron123]

Shhhhh OP. You can't ask for romances for straight people here, it's like the 8th deadly sin.

[OhNoWhyHow]

I don't care if they are bisexual.  They don't have to be "for" straight people.  I just happen to be a straight woman so the male LIs always interest me the most. 

[Seraphim24]

What ever happened to this archetype?  It used to be a Bioware staple.  Now it's been like 3+ games since we had one.

 

As a recap:

 

DAII

 

Fenris:  Serious MacBroodyPants

Anders: Thin slice of snarky crammed into serious.  Mostly he just rants about MAGE FREEDOOMM and mutters an occasional funny one-liner here and there.  Oh yea, then he goes crazy and blows up a Chantry.

 

ME3:

 

Kaidan: generic vanilla "nice guy" (and really a carry over from ME1)

Garrus: actually snarky (but a carryover)

 

DAI

 

Blackwall:  Serious MacBroodyPants Phase II

Cullen: vanilla nice guy rolled around tragic core

Solas: Spock with a few dry one-liners

Iron Bull: He at least passes the vaguely "amusing" test I suppose, but there's still the tragic core, and BDSM is a hard sell. 

 

Can we please get a snarky/non tragic romance again?  Think someone like Varric, Isabela, Dorian, etc. 

 

I kind of hate the snarky characters myself, although I also dislike many of the vanilla/whiner types as well, the non-tragic thing though I could get behind.

[Darkly Tranquil]

I imagine that a generally normal well adjusted person doesn't offer anywhere near as many narrative hooks as the broody/tragic past/martyr complex types that Bioware prefers. Which is not to say that it's not possible or worth trying, it just might end up not being as interesting as you hope.

[OhNoWhyHow]

When I originally wrote "non-tragic" I was thinking of Anders/Solas/Morrigan type romances where the LI either goes crazy or runs off no matter what. 

I didn't mean they couldn't have tragedy in their character arcs.

 

Dorian is probably the best example of the type of character I am thinking of.

And Garrus.

[thats1evildude]

What ever happened to this archetype?  It used to be a Bioware staple.  Now it's been like 3+ games since we had one.

 

Longer than that, I think.

 

Even Alistair and Zevran have their tragic aspects.

[Felya87]

When I originally wrote "non-tragic" I was thinking of Anders/Solas/Morrigan type romances where the LI either goes crazy or runs off no matter what. 

I didn't mean they couldn't have tragedy in their character arcs.

 

Dorian is probably the best example of the type of character I am thinking of.

And Garrus.

 

I would not count Morrigan at all. She had an entire DLC to run off with her, and by the time of DAI is clear she and Kieran have been until not much time before with her love.

[Seraphim24]

When I originally wrote "non-tragic" I was thinking of Anders/Solas/Morrigan type romances where the LI either goes crazy or runs off no matter what. 

I didn't mean they couldn't have tragedy in their character arcs.

 

Dorian is probably the best example of the type of character I am thinking of.

And Garrus.

 

Yeah I wouldn't mind more of that kind of thing, just rare to agree with someone about something here I guess.

 

I've always hated the idea that romance has to have these tragic implications all the time, maybe be close to the edge or otherwise hair-raising, but a tragic ending is pretty boring to me.

 

Honestly though I don't really find it to make or break how I feel about the thing on the whole though, it's just a minor quibble.

[(Disgusted noise.)]

Has there ever been a DA romance without any angst, regardless of gender or sexuality? You use Isabela and Dorian as examples, but they both still bring some serious baggage into their relationship with you.

[OhNoWhyHow]

Has there ever been a DA romance without any angst, regardless of gender or sexuality? You use Isabela and Dorian as examples, but they both still bring some serious baggage into their relationship with you.

 

Yes, but their mechanism of dealing with it is snark and the resolution is ultimately more happy than not.

 

@Felya87

I don't know.  Considering it took like 5 years for players to learn the resolution to that arc, I think it still applies. 

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Has there ever been a DA romance without any angst, regardless of gender or sexuality? You use Isabela and Dorian as examples, but they both still bring some serious baggage into their relationship with you.

I don't think Josephine's romance has any angst in it. 

[Felya87]

Yes, but their mechanism of dealing with it is snark and the resolution is ultimately more happy than not.

 

@Felya87

I don't know.  Considering it took like 5 years for players to learn the resolution to that arc, I think it still applies. 

 

The DLC didn't took five years, you know. Going in another dimension with the mother of your child to see him grow up together seem already a greatly happy ending to me.

[In Exile]

When I originally wrote "non-tragic" I was thinking of Anders/Solas/Morrigan type romances where the LI either goes crazy or runs off no matter what.
I didn't mean they couldn't have tragedy in their character arcs.

Dorian is probably the best example of the type of character I am thinking of.
And Garrus.

Do people find DAO's Morrigan romance tragic? I'm not sure that's the right word for it. She leaves to pursue her own goals but I suppose I don't find that ending tragic. Particularly since the HOF can go off to track her down.

[OhNoWhyHow]

I'm mostly going off my memories of lots of people being royally upset at Morrigan running off into the blue at the end of DAO.  The raw sting of it was salved somewhat months later by Witch Hunt and ultimately by DAI.

 

Perhaps "snarky/non cliffhanger" romance would be a better descriptor.  I actually think I'll change the OP. 

[Sah291]

Ok I loved the Garrus romance...probably my favorite bioware romance so far. But, that was the ultimate cliffhanger/tragic ending. It was for all of the ME romances I guess. Granted, it was Shepard causing the tragic ending that time..but still, that final goodbye scene messed me up. 

 

Anyway, I'm a sucker for the dramatic romances with potentially sad endings (please don't hit me!) I keep picking them, despite myself, so I must like them. Alistair, Anders, and Solas are my favorites in DA.

 

But I would probably enjoy a straight male LI like Dorian or Isabella, yeah.... Isabella is my second favorite LI in DA2, actually. I like how she is still important to the plot, but her big dramatic plot event climaxes in act 2, so you get to play through the reconciliation. That romance had good pacing. 

[leadintea]

I don't care if they are bisexual.  They don't have to be "for" straight people.  I just happen to be a straight woman so the male LIs always interest me the most. 

 

No. Bioware, please listen to this person and make your next snarky/"charming"/tall-dark-and-handsome character for females only. I'd prefer a nice change of pace from the LI's us gay guys have been saddled with.

[Grieving Natashina]

I'm glad I saved this post.

 

Straight female heroes get less romances in most BW games.  As I mentioned before, four of the female LIs in ME2 stay loyal between games.  Two of the romances for fem Shep from ME2 end badly (cheating and death.)  That's out of four romances in that game.  And while there is two in ME3, one of them only works if you romanced them in between games.

 

Straight male LIs in Dragon Age:

 

In DA:O Leliana ends happily (and she remains with the Warden.)  Morrigan's fate and potential happy ending does get addressed in a DLC.

 

DA2: Isabela has her share of tragedy and screw ups, but it doesn't take a lot of hoop jumping to win her back.  I mentioned earlier that she can still count, due to the sheer amount of lying she does, and chaos she causes.  Merrill's ends happily.

 

DA:I: Cassandra can dump the player, if you choose to make her Divine.  Josie is as loyal as they come.  Where as straight female characters do get more romances, one of them ends with a heartbreaker/cliffhanger, and the other turned out someone hiding a horrific crime.

 

Out of 6 romances across the DA games, only two of them have a sucker punch for the straight male hero.  

 

Out of 9 romances for the female character in the series, 2 of them end in tragedy/takes part in an act of terrorism* (at least for now with Solas, and Anders,) one demands that you kill Anders or they'll raze a city (oh hai Seb,) one was using you and your organization to cover up a horrific lie (complete with identity stealing) and one of them requires some insane hoop jumping to earn your happy ending (Alistair).  

 

That's more than 1/2 of the total relationships for the straight female hero in the entire series.

 

*Gay/bisexual men got to experience this too.  The "broken bisexual man that needs the player to fix them" is another problem, but I digress.

 

 

Straight male LIs in ME:

 

ME1: Liara and Ashely.  Provided you save the latter, she does come back to you in ME3

ME2: Miranda, Tali, Jack, Liara (DLC)--Again, none of them leave you or cheat on you in between games.

ME3: All of the above remained loyal if alive.

 

None of them cheat, hide their identity, lie with nearly every breath or die in between games regardless of player intervention.  Out of the 5 romances for the straight male hero, none of them do any of those things.

 

Out of the 4 romances for the straight female hero between games, one cheats, one dies and and one isn't available in ME3 unless you romance them in the previous game.

 

Edit: Now, if you meta-game, found out about the limited options and save Kaidan, then you can start a romance with him in ME3.  Still, this isn't good.  So one potentially dies, Thane dies (I did see that coming,) Jacob cheats, and Garrus isn't available for the final game unless you romanced him in ME2.   The pattern is a little similar in the DA games, and it's one I'd prefer to see broken.

 

So yeah.  As you can tell, I sided with the OP of that thread, and I side with the OP here too.

[Gileadan]

When does Cassandra dump the player if she is made divine? I have seen both her divine and non-divine endings, and they seemed to differ by only half a sentence where she mentions being divine. Her ending struck me as ambiguous, the "who knows how often we can see each other after this" way. Did I miss a special opportunity to get dumped and don't know my luck?

[Grieving Natashina]

When does Cassandra dump the player if she is made divine? I have seen both her divine and non-divine endings, and they seemed to differ by only half a sentence where she mentions being divine. Her ending struck me as ambiguous, the "who knows how often we can see each other after this" way. Did I miss a special opportunity to get dumped and don't know my luck?

The ending doesn't state whether or not she changed Chantry law unlike Leliana.  They make clear in the Warden romanced post-Divine scene for Leliana, whereas they don't with Cassandra.  I haven't done the romance yet myself, so I'm more echoing common sentiments that have claimed that Cass breaks up with the player if made Divine.  

 

For reference: