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Snarky/Non-Cliffhanger Romance for Straight Women


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#26
Gileadan

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The ending doesn't state whether or not she changed Chantry law unlike Leliana.  They make clear in the Warden romanced post-Divine scene for Leliana, whereas they don't with Cassandra.  I haven't done the romance yet myself, so I'm more echoing common sentiments that have claimed that Cass breaks up with the player if made Divine.  
 

Ah, thank you for making that clear! I wasn't aware of the epilogue difference to Leliana's.

That said, I support the OP. Sometimes it's just nice to have a low-baggage, happy ending romance. That option should always be there, and no gender or orientation should be singled out to catch all the tears and drama.

I have to admit though, when Morrigan broke up with my Warden and I didn't know we'd get Witch Hunt eventually, I still didn't feel bad about it...I was grateful both were alive. It really could have been worse. Same with Cassandra's ending...I feel it's appropriate, and I'm content with that.

#27
Grieving Natashina

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A lot of Solas fans are hoping for some "Hunt for the Dread Wolf" DLC, or something like that.  It isn't just for the romance, but for those that like him as a friend.  I'm okay if they don't have Lavellan and Solas riding off into the sunset together ala Morrigan and the Warden.  An explanation and some closure is what I'd expect, unless the writers subvert my expecations.  It doesn't have to be "happy" so much as a little less tragic.

 

Edit: This also could tie into the main story.  Given what happens to Solas after the credits, it's possible that either Morrigan or the player (depending upon the well choice) could be compelled to follow him.  In the case of Morrigan, I could see her either sending a message for assistance to the Inquisitor or having Leliana keep tabs on Morrigan after she leaves Skyhold and starting the DLC that way via the War Table.



#28
AlexiaRevan

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I'm glad I saved this post.

 

Straight female heroes get less romances in most BW games.  As I mentioned before, four of the female LIs in ME2 stay loyal between games.  Two of the romances for fem Shep from ME2 end badly (cheating and death.)  That's out of four romances in that game.  And while there is two in ME3, one of them only works if you romanced them in between games.

 

Straight male LIs in Dragon Age:

 

In DA:O Leliana ends happily (and she remains with the Warden.)  Morrigan's fate and potential happy ending does get addressed in a DLC.

 

DA2: Isabela has her share of tragedy and screw ups, but it doesn't take a lot of hoop jumping to win her back.  I mentioned earlier that she can still count, due to the sheer amount of lying she does, and chaos she causes.  Merrill's ends happily.

 

DA:I: Cassandra can dump the player, if you choose to make her Divine.  Josie is as loyal as they come.  Where as straight female characters do get more romances, one of them ends with a heartbreaker/cliffhanger, and the other turned out someone hiding a terrific crime.

 

Out of 6 romances across the DA games, only two of them have a sucker punch for the straight male hero.  

 

Out of 9 romances for the female character in the series, 2 of them end in tragedy/takes part in an act of terrorism* (at least for now with Solas, and Anders,) one demands that you kill Anders or they'll raze a city (oh hai Seb,) one was using you and your organization to cover up a horrific lie (complete with identity stealing) and one of them requires some insane hoop jumping to earn your happy ending (Alistair).  

 

That's more than 1/2 of the total relationships for the straight female hero in the entire series.

 

*Gay/bisexual men got to experience this too.  The "broken bisexual man that needs the player to fix them" is another problem, but I digress.

 

 

Straight male LIs in ME:

 

ME1: Liara and Ashely.  Provided you save the latter, she does come back to you in ME3

ME2: Miranda, Tali, Jack, Liara (DLC)--Again, none of them leave you or cheat on you in between games.

ME3: All of the above remained loyal if alive.

 

None of them cheat, hide their identity, lie with nearly every breath or die in between games regardless of player intervention.  Out of the 5 romances for the straight male hero, none of them do any of those things.

 

Out of the 4 romances for the straight female hero between games, one cheats, one dies and and one isn't available in ME3 unless you romance them in the previous game.

 

Edit: Now, if you meta-game, found out about the limited options and save Kaidan, then you can start a romance with him in ME3.  Still, this isn't good.  So one potentially dies, Thane dies (I did see that coming,) Jacob cheats, and Garrus isn't available for the final game unless you romanced him in ME2.   The pattern is a little similar in the DA games, and it's one I'd prefer to see broken.

 

So yeah.  As you can tell, I sided with the OP of that thread, and I side with the OP here too.

as always , well said  :D

 

rizrdx1.gif



#29
TheOgre

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Hehehe.. Yeah I definitely see the disparity in low baggage relationships for straight males and females.

Do men in general just bring that much drama or what bioware?? Can't we be normal??

On a serious note.. +1 to op.

#30
Felya87

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I would love playng a BioWare game without Having to spoil myself to Know wich romances For my preferred character(straight female) is non a forced drama or a easily one.

I was hoping it wasn't the case after the ME3 insensible festival. I romanced Solas. I'm still hoping For a chance of a non depressing ending For that romance.

I play to have fun. And to me all this drama and only pointed towards my preferred PCs is not fun.I have alteady enought depression on My own life.

#31
nightscrawl

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So uhm... what about Zevran?

 

I can see picking a LI that fits in with your RL interest (you're a straight woman IRL so you want to romance a guy). But you need your character to be a woman as well? If you do, that's fine. But have you never considered trying out the Dorian romance to see how you like it?

 

I was never able to make a satisfactory guy in DAO, so I totally get it if you don't want to, but I'm just curious.



#32
Broganisity

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Honestly, I just want there to be a romance no one complains about. *dreams the impossible, beats the unbeatable. Row row, fight the power* :lol:

 

---------------

 

But seriously, in regards to romances I'm a fan of the, as you seem to call them, 'vanilla' romances. I don't need no darn sass (by all means, give us some humor but ain't nobody got time for snark) and I don't need no cliffhangers. . .course, I don't need the romances either but still!



#33
Felya87

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So uhm... what about Zevran?

 

I can see picking a LI that fits in with your RL interest (you're a straight woman IRL so you want to romance a guy). But you need your character to be a woman as well? If you do, that's fine. But have you never considered trying out the Dorian romance to see how you like it?

 

I was never able to make a satisfactory guy in DAO, so I totally get it if you don't want to, but I'm just curious.

 

I play many gender and sexuality. But my preferred one is always straight female. And is the one that I play first, and is too simple that this first run leave me with a sour taste if I don't want spoiler.

 

There should be some variety in characters and thrope, not just having to resign themselves to have to play the non-preferred gender and sexuality all the time!

 

And I have always see  the "break up" with a Divine Cassandra as just a simple "clandestine" relationship. She isn't revoluctionary as Leliana, so she simply doesn't make her relationship official.



#34
berelinde

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So uhm... what about Zevran?

 

I can see picking a LI that fits in with your RL interest (you're a straight woman IRL so you want to romance a guy). But you need your character to be a woman as well? If you do, that's fine. But have you never considered trying out the Dorian romance to see how you like it?

 

I was never able to make a satisfactory guy in DAO, so I totally get it if you don't want to, but I'm just curious.

You can romance Zevran with a woman, and a lot of people do.

 

But yeah, the Dorian romance is fantastic. One of my favorites, definitely.



#35
Wulfram

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The ending doesn't state whether or not she changed Chantry law unlike Leliana.  They make clear in the Warden romanced post-Divine scene for Leliana, whereas they don't with Cassandra.  I haven't done the romance yet myself, so I'm more echoing common sentiments that have claimed that Cass breaks up with the player if made Divine.  

 

For reference:

 

 

The game doesn't say anything about Divine Leliana/Warden, the suggestion that she changes the rules is purely from the writers on twitter.



#36
OhNoWhyHow

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So uhm... what about Zevran?

 

I can see picking a LI that fits in with your RL interest (you're a straight woman IRL so you want to romance a guy). But you need your character to be a woman as well? If you do, that's fine. But have you never considered trying out the Dorian romance to see how you like it?

 

I was never able to make a satisfactory guy in DAO, so I totally get it if you don't want to, but I'm just curious.

 

I actually have played the Dorian romance and it is probably my favorite from DAI so far (have also done Cass, Iron Bull, and Solas).  I don't mind playing gay characters or men.  My canon Hawke is male because I though he had better options than femHawke (I do prefer playing heterosexual characters if given a choice).  In games with no LIs to speak of I often default to male characters (Skyrim, Fallout, etc.)

 

Those were all fun, but I always have the most fun in a Bioware game when I can play a female character with an LI I like.

 

Garrus is probably my favorite Bioware romance so far. 



#37
Guest_Mlady_*

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I romanced Zevran and found his romance to end on a happy note. I am glad I only ever saw Alistair as a friend, because I like Loghain and will never kill him in front of his daughter in such a horrific way. In that romance department, Cullen is the better choice. And Anders was not my type. Fenris is a happy ending too if you play it right.


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#38
Grieving Natashina

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This is relevant.  This is another old post of mine, regarding drama versus tragedy among the male LIs.  I didn't include Kaidan at the time, because he hadn't survived Virmire yet.  I might add some thoughts regarding him later.  For now, I think that ends on a really nice note before the Beam Run.  

 

Anyhow, here it is:

 

Zevran--This is a romance that has a pretty warm and fuzzy ending.  However, it doesn't lack for drama.  For starters, Zev's backstory is rather sad.  He was abducted by slavers, sold to the Crows, raised in brothels while being trained to kill.  His whole appearance starts out because he has a death trip.  Zev knows that going against the Warden is suicidal.  One of the cruxes of his romance arc is getting him to stop putting on the front of being charming and flirting and start getting to know him as a person.  Also, the last person he loved he ended up killing, and the player helps him get past it.  

 

Garrus--I would dare call Garrus one of the most popular female romance in the ME series, and one of the most popular with female fans of BW games.  This guy is full of conflict and drama, even before the player can romance him.  In ME1 alone, you can help him choose between C-Sec and Spectre.  In ME2, you can help him shoot his former friend.  Also, regardless of decision, the player usually comforts him and helps it through it.  You can see an inner turmoil and conflict.  In ME3, while the drama isn't focused between Garrus and Shep, there is still some huge stuff out there.  Part of what made that arc special for me in ME3 was seeing old friends and lovers comforting each other while their planets are both burning.   

 

Fenris--Another one that ends on a pretty high note, but that romance has a lot of conflict and drama.  Fenris' backstory has been discussed on the BSN, pretty frequently.  His whole attitude about being angry and scared adds a sense of uncertainty.  Plus, I remember the first time he leaves Hawke after sex, being too freaked out by his memories.  I thought it was pretty well done, and I liked that the player had to maintain some patience.  Also, we can't forget that, romance status or not, you have to convince him not to rip out his own sister's heart in Act 3.  That moment was full of tension and uncertainty.  However, imho, the loyalty that the player and Fenris both show each other despite all the turmoil makes it worth it.

 

Iron Bull--I feel like some folks occasionally dismissed his depths and inner demons.  This is a man that's really caught between his native culture and his adopted one.  The way his speech swings from more of a concise Qun manner to a more causal tone illustrates this.   When the player has the choice between the Qun and the Chargers, it's a pretty tense moment.  You can see the conflict, and he does talk about it with the player later.  He does come to terms with it quickly, but you can still see the pain that lingers.  His PSTD is subtle, but I think it was played up brilliantly.  

 

Cullen--I saved him for last for a reason.  He'll be the character who surprised me for the most in Inquistion.  I can't say that I had any strong feelings for Cullen prior to this game, but I've grown to like him.   His story, particularly when it comes to lyrium and his struggles with it, struck home with me on a personal level.  He's a professional, but at the same time has many issues that I think can be related to in our world.  Having to deal with this black and white view about the world being shattered twice.  The lyrium withdrawal, which is honestly the best depiction of drug withdrawl I've seen in a mainstream game yet.  It had a personal meaning for me.  At least in my opinion, it's one of the most realistic and thoughtful takes on the subject I've seen in a BW game, and I even tweeted the author with a sincere thank you.  With the player (especially in a romance,) helping him work through those demons and learning to be himself is a pretty deep and serious story.

 

I listed the above because I wanted to show that deep stories and dramatic events happen in BW romances all the time without going into extreme heartbreak.  And yet, even with those examples of the ones that end with the female hero not going through sheer hell, still outweigh the times that they do.   

 

 

 

Added: We can have some balance I think between the utterly tragedy/needless hoop jumping and a good story with a happier ending.  I even cheated a bit and added a ME romance that ends on a happy note.  For DA though, the track record is looking kinda grim.

 

Fun thought:  If John Elper (who's my hero) hadn't worked some crazy 16-18 hr shifts to ungate Iron Bull (who became my favorite LI in the game) guess who the lone option would have been for straight lady dwarven characters?  Yep, it would have been Blackwall and no one else.  I would never ask them to cater to my preferred race, but I suspect that part of the reason why Bull was ungated (other than they wanted to) was because of that fact.  That would have sucked.  I mean, straight lady dwarves are a minority among players, but it would have been rather harsh to leave the fans with just the guy that lies about his identity the whole time.

 

By the way, I don't hate Blackwall and I don't want to get into that debate.  Still, the way he beds and then leaves the Inquisitor to go to Orlais was a crappy move, and one that BW could have easily avoided.  


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#39
Bayonet Hipshot

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If I play as a female character, I usually go for Zevran in DAO, Fenris in DA2 and Tal-Vashoth Iron Bull in DAI. 



#40
OhNoWhyHow

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For the record, I don't necessarily mind a romance touching on some pretty dark, serious, or dramatic moments.  It's more a percentage thing.  I feel like most of the LIs for women have had 75% or greater time spent on seriousness, angst, drama, or grimdark.

 

Again, look at Dorian and Garrus as models.  Some 20ish% is spent on some serious dramatic issue.  The other 80% is fun snarkiness. 

 

Alistair is actually also an extremely good model to me because he has a mix of something like 33% king/Duncan/Grey Warden angst, 33% goofy nice guyness, and 33% teasing/snarkiness.  He may not unambigously fit my "snarky" defintion but when you add up the non grimdark/serious parts, the fun stuff comes out on top.  

 

The only other characters to really break the overly serious mode are characters like Kaidan/Cullen who is something like 20% drama and 80% generic nice guy.  These characters aren't dark.  I just find them really dull. 

 

The more I think of it, the only LI for women I can think of that unambiguously fits the mold of what I'm talking about is Garrus. 

 

*Edit*  Eh, dubious math is dubious. 



#41
Bayonet Hipshot

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*snip*

 

Tl;dr :- You like alpha bad boys and handsome chivalrous men. Normal everyday kind of beta guys bore you.

 

Its okay, just say it. Don't need to pretend or beat around the bush. 



#42
OhNoWhyHow

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There is nothing alpha or bad boy about Alistair.  

 

Otherwise: red pill bait fail.



#43
Felya87

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Tl;dr :- You like alpha bad boys and handsome chivalrous men. Normal everyday kind of beta guys bore you.

 

Its okay, just say it. Don't need to pretend or beat around the bush. 

 

Alpha bad boy? Alistair?!?

 

Laughing-animated-kitten-DamnCute.gif

 

Edit: no, really...Alistair...he is anything but an Alpha male. I think he is one of the few male LI that fit the "normal guy" in DA, if you take away being son of a king. All the others have some kind of strange thing about them.



#44
Bayonet Hipshot

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*snip*

 

Did you read what I posted ? Alpha bad boy AND chivalrous handsome men.

 

Alpha bad boy refers to Zevran, Garrus, Iron Bull.

 

Chivalrous handsome men refers to Alistair and Cullen.

 

What's a Red Pill ? I am just stating this from the obvious fact straight women typically get wet over like these two types of men. 



#45
Sah291

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Alpha bad boy? Alistair?!?

Laughing-animated-kitten-DamnCute.gif

Edit: no, really...Alistair...he is anything but an Alpha male. I think he is one of the few male LI that fit the "normal guy" in DA, if you take away being son of a king. All the others have some kind of strange thing about them.

Except for the part where he throws himself at an archdemon for you? lol.

That was the ending I got first time I played origins, and I admit, I wanted to rip my hair out but I liked it.

Not a bad boy but he has the chivalrous part down. For that matter so does Cullen. In DA2, he jumps in front of Meredith to defend you in the end. But that isn't part of his romance arc of course.

Garrus was good because he is a triple threat. Bad boy, chivalrous, fun/snarky, and sweet all rolled into one. I doubt bioware will be able to duplicate it easily, considering he wasn't originally conceived as a romance option, and I suspect that is part of the reason why I liked it as much as I did.

#46
Seraphim24

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For the record, I don't necessarily mind a romance touching on some pretty dark, serious, or dramatic moments.  It's more a percentage thing.  I feel like most of the LIs for women have had 75% or greater time spent on seriousness, angst, drama, or grimdark.

 

Again, look at Dorian and Garrus as models.  Some 20ish% is spent on some serious dramatic issue.  The other 80% is fun snarkiness. 

 

Alistair is actually also an extremely good model to me because he has a mix of something like 33% king/Duncan/Grey Warden angst, 33% goofy nice guyness, and 33% teasing/snarkiness.  He may not unambigously fit my "snarky" defintion but when you add up the non grimdark/serious parts, the fun stuff comes out on top.  

 

The only other characters to really break the overly serious mode are characters like Kaidan/Cullen who is something like 20% drama and 80% generic nice guy.  These characters aren't dark.  I just find them really dull. 

 

The more I think of it, the only LI for women I can think of that unambiguously fits the mold of what I'm talking about is Garrus. 

 

*Edit*  Eh, dubious math is dubious. 

 

I think I realized what my concern is, it's just that I don't think DA does serious or mature well, so by default the snarky characters end up being a truer expression of DA characters.

 

The problem for me is that I don't like snarky either, what I personally would like is for them to make serious/mature characters and do it properly. Fenris, etc, are just bad examples of the form IMO and perhaps why you don't like them so much.

 

Unless you just don't like serious sort of characters anywhere or something.



#47
Felya87

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Except for the part where he throws himself at an archdemon for you? lol.

That was the ending I got first time I played origins, and I admit, I wanted to rip my hair out but I liked it.

Not a bad boy but he has the chivalrous part down. For that matter so does Cullen. In DA2, he jumps in front of Meredith to defend you in the end. But that isn't part of his romance arc of course.

Garrus was good because he is a triple threat. Bad boy, chivalrous, fun/snarky, and sweet all rolled into one. I doubt bioware will be able to duplicate it easily, considering he wasn't originally conceived as a romance option, and I suspect that is part of the reason why I liked it as much as I did.

 

never got that ending. I only romanced him leaving him a warden (first time just because it fitted my character. All the others time because I hated the "mistress" thing and I refused to have a character with a broken heart. And I hate playng a human character when I can choose non human characters.) and accepting Morrigan offer. I hate dramatic endings.



#48
OhNoWhyHow

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I think I realized what my concern is, it's just that I don't think DA does serious or mature well, so by default the snarky characters end up being a truer expression of DA characters.

 

The problem for me is that I don't like snarky either, what I personally would like is for them to make serious/mature characters and do it properly. Fenris, etc, are just bad examples of the form IMO and perhaps why you don't like them so much.

 

Unless you just don't like serious sort of characters anywhere or something.

 

I don't dislike serious.  I just don't like serious dominating the majority of the time. 

 

I never understood the "bad ending" Alistair thing.  He flat out tells you that he doesn't want to be king.  To me it naturally follows that bad things will happen if you force an ill-quipped man who doesn't want to be king to be king. 

 

Morrigan also warns you of the consequences of not doing the ritual.



#49
Seraphim24

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I don't dislike serious.  I just don't like serious dominating the majority of the time. 

 

I never understood the "bad ending" Alistair thing.  He flat out tells you that he doesn't want to be king.  To me it naturally follows that bad things will happen if you force an ill-quipped man who doesn't want to be king to be king. 

 

Morrigan also warns you of the consequences of not doing the ritual.

 

That's a pretty good point honestly about Alistair, but would an Alistair that was more kingly, regal, or otherwise mature/intense be such a bad thing?



#50
OhNoWhyHow

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I think Alistair would suffer significantly without his sense of humor.  At least for me, he would.  His exuberance and nice guyness are appealing too, but it's specifically the mixed goofiness and snarkiness that sells it.