269 réponses à ce sujet

[The Great Bob]

Does this thread spell the end of solo videos to show off people's "skills" then? I've always felt the demonstration of build videos to show their effectiveness to be quite pointless because of the promotions issue. 

[Spin-Orbit]

Does this thread spell the end of solo videos to show off people's "skills" then? I've always felt the demonstration of build videos to show their effectiveness to be quite pointless because of the promotions issue.

I don't think you will ever see the end of that

[Geth Supremacy]

Pretty sure Red Templars was attempted after this, but failed on zone 5 vs the commander. I can ask but i seriously don't think that he would really care enough to do another one.

 

I don't doubt that he can do it.  And I do think its a good video.  I know 90% of the players probably couldn't do that....especially without max promotions.  The video would just have more impact if done vs Red Templars...or even Ventori as at least they can block.  IMO it takes away from the video and the point hes trying to make doing it like that.  I get his point though.

[Proto]

Pretty sure Red Templars was attempted after this, but failed on zone 5 vs the commander. I can ask but i seriously don't think that he would really care enough to do another one.

 

Wait, so he didn't roflstomp with a level 20 avvar, those stats and BiS equipment?

 

Point taken.

[Texasmotiv]

The Avaar is not really prone to being blocked. The real problem with the video that has not been addressed is that the person controlling the OP/Overgeared/Overpromoted character is the person that grinded out those levels. Someone who is known to have a high level of skill and deep understanding of the game at large. Its like Sebastian Vettel hopping in a Bugatti Veyron and saying it takes no skill to drive a car this fast around a track. Yes its a fast car, but you also know how to drive.

 

You are framing the experiment to make the point you want to make. It's just bad science.

[apocalypse_owl]

Wait, so he didn't roflstomp with a level 20 avvar, those stats and BiS equipment?

 

Point taken.

 

Up until the last zone, actually yes. Unfortunately the Avvar can't facetank the RTC too well. Stay salty friend  

[apocalypse_owl]

Its like Sebastian Vettel hopping in a Bugatti Veyron and saying it takes no skill to drive a car this fast around a track. Yes its a fast car, but you also know how to drive.

 

You are framing the experiment to make the point you want to make. It's just bad science.

 

I don't see how the two are even remotely similar or comparable in any way, thats a terrible comparison to make. Its also not science, its a video game.

[Angelus_de_Mortiel]

Are you some BDSM type?

 

The word you were looking for is masochist, not "BDSM type". Not all people into BDSM are into sadomasochism.

 

 

It's not so much about bragging although it almost always seems to come off that way.  (Well maybe sometimes they are bragging).  Solo demonstrations are a good way to show working builds.  Not everyone will be able to solo even if they are running an identical build, because like you said it's gear and promotion based.  It's up to the audience to follow the guide to the letter or make a few tweaks of their own.  

 

Sorry, but I have to disagree. Soloing is not a "good way to show a working build" in a multiplayer game. In my videos, I often am soloing through some of the content so I can get a few clips of the abilities being used "in a vaccuum" (so to speak) so I can chop them up in between the skill tree and talking. I then may have solo gameplay further (on Routine, mind you) for background as I explain strategy or make snarky comments, but not to show how good the build works. 

 

Admittedly, this is because many of the builds I use are devised for specific roles, and not the typical "rush-in-and-bash-things" for which everyone looks. Getting a team together to demonstrate a role properly is tedious since my "team" has moved on to other games. Most of the experienced players that I can party with now are either unwilling to play a specific role for the sake of demonstration or are frankly not skilled enough to put themselves in a role and stick to it when things get hectic.

 

 

That's pretty much why people started feeling such animosity towards players with high promotions and BIS gear.  Without all the douchebaggery, a high promotion player is just another guy doing his own thing in his own lobby with his own friends, and chances of people actually running into them is pretty low because of region locks or the lobby mostly set to private.  Many people need guides but they can definitely go without the insults.

 

I have been playing DAIMP since the minute the server went online, and yet I still try to cater my content to the "any-player" (meaning as neutral on gear and promotions as possible). I also play PuG matches most of the time.

Oh course, I also don't play the "meta" game. I don't try to make videos showcasing the "optimal" builds that everyone else uses (although I think I have a couple of times), so I guess it's easier for me to not rely on gear and promotions.

 

The real point of this thread and the 5+ other ones like this is that Apocalypse_Owl, PenguinFetish, and Drasca are the bestest of friends.  They share an eternal DAMP bond of brotherhood, and they express their love for one another on these forums.

 

Honestly, if I did not know them all, I might be inclined to buy into the "frienemy" conspiracy. I mean, what better way to get more publicity than a little drama?

Unfortunately, I'll be completely honest in saying that Penguin, Drasca, and myself all have a bit of an ego problem, which has lead to a lot of friction. All of us are "right", and none of us want to concede. Of course, Drasca and Penguins seem to be at odds to a much greater degree than either of them with me, which I suppose makes less stress for me.

 

 

 

However, on the topic of the OP: I think this is largely moot, but does bring up some interesting ideas for me.

 

A higher difficulty was already confirmed, and by posting videos like this that showcase how "easy" Perilous is solo for high level players will likely lead to a more difficult "Nightmare" difficulty. Imagine if any enemy kills in one shot (even Wraiths), have double the health of Perilous, and triple the spawns. Nightmare will be an apt name, and all your promotions and end-game gear will be for naught. *queues St. Bluke's maniacal laughter*

Seriously though... Why not have a difficulty that penalizes you the more promotions you have? That way, the uber-elite players get the challenge of their lives and newer players have something challenging that is not near impossible without a carry.

[Texasmotiv]

I don't see how the two are even remotely similar or comparable in any way, thats a terrible comparison to make.

 

In the metaphor:

 

Penguin is Sebatian Vettel. http://en.wikipedia....ebastian_Vettel A well know and esteemed race car driver. Penguin is a well esteemed DAMP player having contributed build advice and having been a figure in the DAMP theorycrafting community.

 

The Level 20 Avaar with BiS gear and high promotions is the Bugatti Veyron. http://en.wikipedia..../Bugatti_Veyron It is a fast car. It is highly overpowered just like the Avaar. As the Avaar does a lot of damage when in BiS gear and high promotions.

 

To say that the race car driver can drive the fast car well is the same as to say a skilled player can play a good character well. He may say that it is easy to him but if you have not driven a fast car around a race track, there is a learning curve. In the same way, someone who has played and analyzed this game for 7 months I'm sure has a pretty good handle on how to solo perilous on a well geared Avvar.

 

I'm not really sure how that was not clear.

 

Its obvious you are just being contrarian for no other reason to elicit a reaction. You started this thread with the flimsy pretense that it was an exposé with definite proof that you had blown the lid off this game showing that it takes zero skill to play. As if you had found bigfoot and had him in a cage for everyone to look at.

 

 

Its also not science, its a video game.

 

I guess that is true. But what is observation or discussion without science? How can you claim something to be true contrary to popular belief without some degree of concrete proof? I don't really want to argue with you. I was just poking the holes in the flimsy argument that you presented to the community as fact. (Rabble Rouser! )

 

Let me say plainly my stance on the point you were trying to make. I don't argue with you that this game does not take a great deal of skill. Its not hard really. Its a grind. I think that is the way that the game was designed to be. Perilous is meant to be hard until you reach the minimum gear requirements and you get a little bit of wits about you. That is where the tiny amount of skill comes in. Its takes maybe 1-2 months and you hit a skill plateau. You can get incrementally better as you continue to acclimate to the new challenges presented to you but really its not like training to be a gymnast or learning to play the piano.

 

I simply take exception to your exaggerations and general attitude of starting drama rather than really making a point then proving it with real facts and evidence.

[Hellsteeth30]

HEY GUYS! It's kicking off again!

I'll light the barbeque.

[Geth Supremacy]

Its also not science, its a video game.

 

I have to agree here.  It's a co op video game on top of that.  It's not like its hard in the first place.  The SP was so easy you would get bored out of your mind playing it.  I can't even finish it.

 

We're talking about a co op game when you can pull the entire zone to a choke point if you wanted to.  Obviously you don't even need to do that, but you're just fighting ai.

 

Theres nothing wrong with liking it.  I've been playing it again since this weekend, but its just a fact.

[ALTBOULI]

Folks this can all be settled with one simple word - THUNDERDOME!!!!!

[Hellsteeth30]

I'll 1v1 all of you. That'll sort this out.

Connect 4 or Stratego? I have Stratego.

[Proto]

The aim of this video is to prove that you do not need strategy, positioning or any sort of 'skill' providing you have good gear and weapons. This solo is quite literally charging into every group as quickly as possible and spamming abilities. Zero skill or even knowledge of mechanics are needed other than two functional hands.

 

Well since you haven't manage to work it out, ill explain it for you. 

 

The point of the video is that there is zero challenge when you have certain gear/promotions. The point is to demonstrate that fact. The point isn't to demonstrate a challenging solo. Its to demonstrate that none exists once you reach a certain level.

 

 

Pretty sure Red Templars was attempted after this, but failed on zone 5 vs the commander. I can ask but i seriously don't think that he would really care enough to do another one.

 

 

Wait, so he didn't roflstomp with a level 20 avvar, those stats and BiS equipment?

 

Point taken.

 

Up until the last zone, actually yes. Unfortunately the Avvar can't facetank the RTC too well. Stay salty friend

 

 

[apocalypse_owl]

Folks this can all be settled with one simple word - THUNDERDOME!!!!!

 

I really think Penguin and Drasca should settle things live on Twitch in the Thunderdome. I put 50 BSN bux on Penguin despite Drasca being a well known cheater, because he will no doubt rage quit.

[Texasmotiv]

I have to agree here. It's a co op video game on top of that. It's not like its hard in the first place. The SP was so easy you would get bored out of your mind playing it. I can't even finish it.

We're talking about a co op game when you can pull the entire zone to a choke point if you wanted to. Obviously you don't even need to do that, but you're just fighting ai.

Theres nothing wrong with liking it. I've been playing it again since this weekend, but its just a fact.

The OP mistook me saying that the game is science when all I meant to say is that when you talk to human beings (which we all are) and you are discussing anything (which we are doing) you must back up your points with persuasive evidence. I am not presenting a ccounterargument, I am merely saying the OP has not provided any evidence to backup his claim. And went so far as to suggest an alternate means by which to test his theory. So that we may reach a consensus and achieve the goal set output in the initial post:

"The aim of this video is to prove that you do not need strategy, positioning or any sort of 'skill' providing you have good gear and weapons. This solo is quite literally charging into every group as quickly as possible and spamming abilities. Zero skill or even knowledge of mechanics are needed other than two functional hands."

[Akir388]

Who determines what is persuasive evidence though? What is persuasive enough to some, might not be to others.

[Angelus_de_Mortiel]

Who determines what is persuasive evidence though? What is persuasive enough to some, might not be to others.

 

That's why people keep suggesting a Thunderdome. It was the way all subjective arguments were decided in ME3MP.

[Spin-Orbit]

That's why people keep suggesting a Thunderdome. It was the way all subjective arguments were decided in ME3MP.

but this is not ME3MP and I find it very rude and tiresome that ME3MP players current or ex feel that they want to railroad this forum.

[Texasmotiv]

Who determines what is persuasive evidence though? What is persuasive enough to some, might not be to others.

Well like I've said, an objective experiment instead of sensationalism.

[Texasmotiv]

Someone with 300 promotions and ability to record, post a video of their elderly grandmother or 4 year old child soloing OC on perilous on the Avaar. If I had to guess, its not possible. Please prove me wrong because that would be incredibly entertaining.

[apocalypse_owl]

but this is not ME3MP and I find it very rude and tiresome that ME3MP players current or ex feel that they want to railroad this forum.

Try reddit. Much more on topic and objective than BSN is. /r/dragonagecoop.

[Spin-Orbit]

Try reddit. Much more on topic and objective than BSN is. /r/dragonagecoop.

that is good information and thanks but it misses the point. I am simply stating my position on a DAIMP forum. I do not think I am in minority.

[Hellsteeth30]

I've yet to see anyone but you moaning about it Mr. Way......Orbit. Seems like a minority to me.

It's not like there aren't "proper" topics for you to read is it?

[ALTBOULI]

I really think Penguin and Drasca should settle things live on Twitch in the Thunderdome. I put 50 BSN bux on Penguin despite Drasca being a well known cheater, because he will no doubt rage quit.

I bet Drasca would expect Penguin to play a barrier kit while he plays the reaver/Katari or Archer etc. No doubt he would start screaming for Penguin to barrier him.