62 réponses à ce sujet

[The Devlish Redhead]

Unless there's reason beyond World War 3 and First Contact the society in Trek just can't work. Human nature just won't allow it.

It's one of the things I love and also hate about Star Trek. At least TOS seemed a bit more realistic in that people still worked for pay in some sectors. Harry Mudd for instance provided female androids for miners on distant worlds.  Plus the Federation traded with other worlds in Kirk's time and they would have needed currency to trade ergo money..

Starships are big, heavy pieces of metal and technology. Someone had to design them, someone had to come up with the ideas for those designs, and you are saying they did it just because that is their passion? And for nothing? I find that very hard to believe.

Now building them also might involve some automation but there would have been a hell of a lot of human labour there too. And when they are built people have to live and work in them and fix them when they are out in the field... I find it very hard to believe people crew these ships for nothing as well.

Picard's talk of why they did this in First Contact sounds more like bullsh*t.

[mybudgee]

Picard's talk of why they did this in First Contact sounds more like bullshit.

[TheClonesLegacy]

To properly explain TNG, I'd have to go into a long description of Communism and its many forms.

 

I don't feel up to that.

 

Also this thread was done before. And it was stupid then too.

[DeathScepter]

Gene was an idealist and wants to show what we could become. that is why it is the way it is. Federation, in Gene's vision, is a bit of a Mary Sueoptia, or a society based on idealism of what we could become in order to better ourselves. I do know that I am too much of a rogue to fit into that fully.

[General TSAR]

I agree. 

 

Communism in a spacefaring society? LOL.

[metatheurgist]

Starships are big, heavy pieces of metal and technology. Someone had to design them, someone had to come up with the ideas for those designs, and you are saying they did it just because that is their passion? And for nothing? I find that very hard to believe.

The important part of that recipe is that no one wants for anything anymore in the ST universe. If I didn't have to pay for rent, food or power, damn straight I'd do it just for kicks. This is how a lot of software engineers already work. Companies exploit the fact that a lot of coders really enjoy coding to get them to work ridiculous hours. As a coder myself I've pulled 24 hour stints trying to crack problems because it's great when you make stuff work.

[Cyonan]

Yeah, it's mostly just Gene's idealism that he put into the show. It shows more in TOS and the first few seasons of TNG, and from there even though they started easing up on it a few things got stuck as canon in the universe.

 

DS9 probably has the most "realistic" view of what things might look like in the future.

[Olivia Wilde]

Yeah, it's mostly just Gene's idealism that he put into the show. It shows more in TOS and the first few seasons of TNG, and from there even though they started easing up on it a few things got stuck as canon in the universe.

 

DS9 probably has the most "realistic" view of what things might look like in the future.

"Homefront/Paradise Lost" is a brilliant look at how Utopia starts to lose its sheen

[AlanC9]

But wouldn't meaningful work be in very short supply in a post-scarcity economy? If you don't have the talent for science or creative arts, what's left for you? I don't think Starfleet would have too much trouble recruiting.

[Cainhurst Crow]

Honestly it somewhat makes more sense then having a modern united states style free-market economic system in space, as so many sci-fi writers are prone to do. Everyone has a single currency which everything is measured in, the credit, and no other currency is used apparently. No planet decided to be stuborn and hold onto their form of monetary transaction and system. Nope. Stock markets here to, just the same as it is now on the Nasdaq. Hundreds of years in a parallel universe, and apparently things still the same. Except nothing ever affects this economy at all, no giant intergalactic wars or collapse of a civilization can alters these floating currency estimates.

 

Hell I can't think of any sci-fi universe in which a galactic economy even matters. Resources are never price-gouged, recessions never seem to occur, mega-corporations can preform planet-wide genocides and abduct whole colonies of people against their will to experiment on them, and they never suffer any repercussions. Hell if anything people send more value into their stocks and elevate them to macro-state levels of power and influence. I guess stocks never drop in sci-fi universes due to bad press.

[Jehuty]

Reformation must take place before society could become like that, working towards one common goal instead of killing each other. 

[The Devlish Redhead]

The important part of that recipe is that no one wants for anything anymore in the ST universe. If I didn't have to pay for rent, food or power, damn straight I'd do it just for kicks. This is how a lot of software engineers already work. Companies exploit the fact that a lot of coders really enjoy coding to get them to work ridiculous hours. As a coder myself I've pulled 24 hour stints trying to crack problems because it's great when you make stuff work.

Yeah but at the end of the day you get paid for your work and wouldn't you prefer that?

[Rorschachinstein]

I've always thought with these scenarios "somebody's got to the be that lower tier scrub who'scorpse is in the foundation". I could see people being passionate about being doctors or ship captains. But I can't imagine people being content with being miners, factory workers etc. I don't imagine that society could have worked to the point where robots are built to meet these demands without some sort of tension happening beforehand.

[Inquisitor Recon]

Reformation must take place before society could become like that, working towards one common goal instead of killing each other. 

Not going to happen, human nature prevents it.

[Gravisanimi]

Honestly it somewhat makes more sense then having a modern united states style free-market economic system in space, as so many sci-fi writers are prone to do. Everyone has a single currency which everything is measured in, the credit, and no other currency is used apparently. No planet decided to be stuborn and hold onto their form of monetary transaction and system. Nope. Stock markets here to, just the same as it is now on the Nasdaq. Hundreds of years in a parallel universe, and apparently things still the same. Except nothing ever affects this economy at all, no giant intergalactic wars or collapse of a civilization can alters these floating currency estimates.

 

Hell I can't think of any sci-fi universe in which a galactic economy even matters. Resources are never price-gouged, recessions never seem to occur, mega-corporations can preform planet-wide genocides and abduct whole colonies of people against their will to experiment on them, and they never suffer any repercussions. Hell if anything people send more value into their stocks and elevate them to macro-state levels of power and influence. I guess stocks never drop in sci-fi universes due to bad press.

Somebody needs to make a sci-fi Spice and Wolf then.

 

That actually sounds great.

 

I'd watch it.

 

Hell I'd play it.

[General TSAR]

Hell I can't think of any sci-fi universe in which a galactic economy even matters. Resources are never price-gouged, recessions never seem to occur, mega-corporations can preform planet-wide genocides and abduct whole colonies of people against their will to experiment on them, and they never suffer any repercussions. Hell if anything people send more value into their stocks and elevate them to macro-state levels of power and influence. I guess stocks never drop in sci-fi universes due to bad press.

Killzone universe, a massive depression led up to WW2 in Alpha Centauri.

 

But then again, that series is massively influenced by 20th Century Warfare and dictatorships so yeah.

[Inquisitor Recon]

Why would anybody not just live in the holodeck all day?

[The Devlish Redhead]

Why would anybody not just live in the holodeck all day?

Because you can't....  What about social interaction with other people? And who would you make babies with?

[TheClonesLegacy]

^Pffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff.

 

At that point why are either of those two necessary?

Not everyone wants kids you know.

[Sifr]

That's because when you really look at it, the Federation is actually a dystopia. There's a reason that so many people have put forward the fan theory that the reason Starfleet so often sends all the important ships far away from Earth under the guise of "exploration", is actually because the insane Starfleet Admirals (like there's any other kind) want to keep them out of the way while they rule Earth?

 

In "Homecoming" and "Paradise Lost" of DS9, we see how shocked everyone was when one Admiral attempted a coup and turned Earth briefly into a police state. When to be honest, the only difference between seeing armed Starfleet officers on every street corner that day and the day before, was that yesterday, nobody noticed.

 

[The Invader]

Yeah but at the end of the day you get paid for your work and wouldn't you prefer that?

Why? Money would be pointless in a society like that. All forms of recreation movies, music etc would be free and open to the public. If I didn't have to worry about bills and other financial responsibilities I would probably spend my days gardening, teaching, traveling the world and expanding my understanding of different cultures around the world.

[The Devlish Redhead]

That's because when you really look at it, the Federation is actually a dystopia.

 

 

I have heard this mentioned before.  But it's never portrayed that way in the movies or TV shows.

 

Mind you they do monitor every citizen on Earth so that's kind of a bad thing.

[The Devlish Redhead]

Why? Money would be pointless in a society like that. All forms of recreation movies, music etc would be free and open to the public. If I didn't have to worry about bills and other financial responsibilities I would probably spend my days gardening, teaching, traveling the world and expanding my understanding of different cultures around the world.

 

Ah.........And if all that is free what about copyright? Is it enforced?

 

 

Could you take The  Witcher or GTA and do that on the holodeck?

[TheClonesLegacy]

Everything is public domain in the future.

[The Invader]

Ah.........And if all that is free what about copyright? Is it enforced?
 
 
Could you take The  Witcher or GTA and do that on the holodeck?

I believe copyright laws would in fact be enforced. However, the punishment probably wouldn't carry monetary based fee. I imagine it would require community service as well as an immediate end of whatever violated the copyrighted material.