158 réponses à ce sujet

[T_elic]

I get kicked so much by random pug idiots who assume you are a bad player. Especially when i'm trying to level my Katari and reaver. I got kicked out of a threatning match last weekend for running with a level 9 reaver. LEVEL 9! I was top scorer, but those noobs kicked me and even told me i was a noob for bringing a level 9 guy to a threatning match.

[Lil Mantis]

I got kicked out of a threatning match last weekend for running with a level 9 reaver. LEVEL 9! I was top scorer, but those noobs kicked me and even told me i was a noob for bringing a level 9 guy to a threatning match.

Count that as a blessing.  You saved yourself the hassle of dealing with silliness.

[F_e_princess]

Imo people who kick are generally scrubs anyways

[Mad Godji]

I often play with friends, and must admit that we are getting quite trigger happy on the kick button because of the sheer amount of awful experiences.

 

Usually, our guidelines are the following :

 

-Legos/templars who haven't generated a single guard point in two waves. Yes, alright, you may be going for some weird full offense build, but if you pull your weight, believe, we'll notice as you'll be the one exception in the hundreds of people in the same situation who still haven't understood how Shield Block works. I am quite annoyed with Bioware on this one : Shield Block is really unique in how it works as a skill, and no tutorial or anything really covers it well, so it's prettyu easy for beginners to be confused, I tend to blame Bioware more than people here, still, if I didn't want someoe contributing at this spot I'd have kept my game private. Barrer-less keepers can annoy me a bit but it's a much more case by case basis : I do not expect keepers to put barriers when none are needed and helping enemies die faster will be as efficient as damage prevention.

 

-drop 2/3 times before wave 3. Again, not an abolute rule in case of extreme bad luck, but true 95% of the time.

 

-if you want to come sub 5 in Threatening, please have a high-level banner/title. I do believe most people here who say they can perfectly rock lvl 1 threatening, but my experience is that you are NOT representative of the majority of players, I see people being useless at lvl15 easily 10 times more often than people pulling their weight sub-5. We won't kick the first bannerless/titleless person in our evening to come low level in Threatening, but will if we've already had a bad experience that day.

 

-lack of courtesy : do not abuse the low-level chars in Perilous. Yes, your lvl 8 archer might be able survive Perilous. But see it from the other players' point of view : we'd go much faster if you were bringing something a bit more efficient too. So if we're all with high level chars and you bring a low level one, we'll gladly pull you one, maybe two games, but will expect you to have the courtesy to switch so someone else can do the same or just so we can be a bit more efficient beyond this.

 

-But, by a huge margin, our main reason for kicking : if you go away by yourself, you handle it. If you want to go ahead of the pack, try to open a treasure chest room we are currently ignoring* or just wander away at the other side of the map in Castle/wave 5, good for you if you pull it off (actually, good for everyone, and we'll be glad to keep running with you). If you die you'll at best get ignored wave 4/5, get kicked earlier.

 

 

*Treasure rooms deserve their whole paragraph : given from how far enemies link and pull together, I tend now to just full clear the wave, and then only after check treasure rooms. I may do an exception for the rooms which can never spawn enemies. That's personnal, I understand if you want to do those differently and in all cases if I'm not with friends and just playing public will just go with the flow.

Now, if you see three other people ignoring the door and finishing the rest of the pack but stay behind uselessly pinging at the door, I'll certainly start to grumple internally. Open it and die/come back to us with a roomfull of enemies, and do not expect to still be in the group once the smoke clears.

[CMDR FACE]

Was with a few randoms recently and I am happy to say that all went well.  It's not all bad...just mostly bad.

[Drasca]

Just replace threatening with perilous, and I basically have the same guidelines, except I am stricter on what kits are brought and what builds synergize with which.

 

I often play with friends, and must admit that we are getting quite trigger happy on the kick button because of the sheer amount of awful experiences.

 

Certain BSN'ers want to believe they're special snowflakes, but the reality is pugs are terrible with few exceptions, and they do drag down the team efficiency. It is certainly not fun to wipe or have my time wasted.

 

Puggers aren't special snowflakes. They're special olympics special that ride on the short bus because there's rarely any quality control or team communication or coordination involved.

 

 

drop 2/3 times before wave 3. Zone 1 completes

 

FTFY. More likely the case. When it comes to perilous, they might not even survive the first mob pack, let alone the dragon that trolls on Fereldan Castle repeatedly all the way up five zones through slaying her.

 

 

I see people being useless at lvl15 easily 10 times more often than people pulling their weight sub-5

 

Soooo true.

 

 

-But, by a huge margin, our main reason for kicking : if you go away by yourself, you handle it.

 

Aaaaand they don't. They go out in the open, then die, and expect folk to rez them out in the open. I tell allies to avoid rezzing the pug.

[DrKilledbyDeath]

Certain BSN'ers want to believe they're special snowflakes

In lieu of Kenny,

 

Looooooooooool

[Beerfish]

I often play with friends, and must admit that we are getting quite trigger happy on the kick button because of the sheer amount of awful experiences.

 

Usually, our guidelines are the following :

 

-Legos/templars who haven't generated a single guard point in two waves. Yes, alright, you may be going for some weird full offense build, but if you pull your weight, believe, we'll notice as you'll be the one exception in the hundreds of people in the same situation who still haven't understood how Shield Block works. I am quite annoyed with Bioware on this one : Shield Block is really unique in how it works as a skill, and no tutorial or anything really covers it well, so it's prettyu easy for beginners to be confused, I tend to blame Bioware more than people here, still, if I didn't want someoe contributing at this spot I'd have kept my game private. Barrer-less keepers can annoy me a bit but it's a much more case by case basis : I do not expect keepers to put barriers when none are needed and helping enemies die faster will be as efficient as damage prevention.

 

-drop 2/3 times before wave 3. Again, not an abolute rule in case of extreme bad luck, but true 95% of the time.

 

-if you want to come sub 5 in Threatening, please have a high-level banner/title. I do believe most people here who say they can perfectly rock lvl 1 threatening, but my experience is that you are NOT representative of the majority of players, I see people being useless at lvl15 easily 10 times more often than people pulling their weight sub-5. We won't kick the first bannerless/titleless person in our evening to come low level in Threatening, but will if we've already had a bad experience that day.

 

-lack of courtesy : do not abuse the low-level chars in Perilous. Yes, your lvl 8 archer might be able survive Perilous. But see it from the other players' point of view : we'd go much faster if you were bringing something a bit more efficient too. So if we're all with high level chars and you bring a low level one, we'll gladly pull you one, maybe two games, but will expect you to have the courtesy to switch so someone else can do the same or just so we can be a bit more efficient beyond this.

 

-But, by a huge margin, our main reason for kicking : if you go away by yourself, you handle it. If you want to go ahead of the pack, try to open a treasure chest room we are currently ignoring* or just wander away at the other side of the map in Castle/wave 5, good for you if you pull it off (actually, good for everyone, and we'll be glad to keep running with you). If you die you'll at best get ignored wave 4/5, get kicked earlier.

 

 

*Treasure rooms deserve their whole paragraph : given from how far enemies link and pull together, I tend now to just full clear the wave, and then only after check treasure rooms. I may do an exception for the rooms which can never spawn enemies. That's personnal, I understand if you want to do those differently and in all cases if I'm not with friends and just playing public will just go with the flow.

Now, if you see three other people ignoring the door and finishing the rest of the pack but stay behind uselessly pinging at the door, I'll certainly start to grumple internally. Open it and die/come back to us with a roomfull of enemies, and do not expect to still be in the group once the smoke clears.

You guys need to play more private matches in that case.  There is nothing more seedy imo than kicking a guy after multiple waves unless they are a 100% obvious leech doing nothing.  to wait around and play 2 or 3 or 4 waves and then deciding, gee we are going to kick this guy now because I hate they way he plays is low.

[DrKilledbyDeath]

You guys need to play more private matches in that case.  There is nothing more seedy imo than kicking a guy after multiple waves unless they are a 100% obvious leech doing nothing.  to wait around and play 2 or 3 or 4 waves and then deciding, gee we are going to kick this guy now because I hate they way he plays is low.

If you have a couple people with decent stats/gear you can carry less geared people so why kick? You help others and it helps the community. PvE game.

[Drasca]

You guys need to play more private matches in that case.  There is nothing more seedy imo than kicking a guy after multiple waves unless they are a 100% obvious leech doing nothing.  to wait around and play 2 or 3 or 4 waves and then deciding, gee we are going to kick this guy now because I hate they way he plays is low.

 

Reread the post. They play as much private as possible, kick early, and not arbitrarily. Pugs don't often make it multiple waves, because they're dead 3x by wave 2, and kicked for it.

 

Of course, I kick people while they're still in lobby, and save us all the trouble. Some people don't like that of course, but they don't have to play in my games.

[F_e_princess]

Treasure room rule of thumb dont open the door unless your sure you can solo whats inside, and are pretty sure everyone wont die without you.

 

I pretty much only play pugs and have atleast 300 perilous pugs so they arent bad at all.  In my experience playing premades gets pretty boring pretty quick.  Unless your going for efficiency with the excitement of brushing your teeth i reccomend pugs.

 

In a perilous group last night there was a lego with an inquisition shield.  Noone booted him and yet we survived some how

[ChinookLoki]

You still assume too much that success is guaranteed.

 

I never said nor implied success was guaranteed.

I clearly described how a variety of approaches can be successful and contrasted that with the position that you appear to be putting forward that your approach must be followed or else you kick players from the game.

I supported my assertion that a variety of approaches must be viable due to our agreement that a party can still be successful with a Level 1.

Unless you'd like to demonstrate that a leveled up Hunter is less effective than a random level 1 of any other class, I think we can close this portion of the discussion.

 

 

 

Everyone's free to go to another lobby. 

 

I fully agree, you are free to go to another lobby any time you'd like to.

 

 

What's your point? That you enacted your right to selection? Good for you. I kicked many a bad katari in my era too. I still kick bad players if they're dragging the team down.

 

Um, no, that is most definitely NOT my point.

I have completely failed to communicate my point to you then.

I did NOT enact a right to selectively kick players in lobbies just because I did not like their class choice.

I used the Katari as an example of a class that could justifiably be held in contempt in the pre-buff era. I used that example to demonstrate that I did NOT select against them.  I chose that specific example in an attempt to make the issue more personal for you to understand why others find your behaviour rude.  If you showed up in a lobby with your pre-buff Katari and were told you had to change classes or be kicked because the Katari cannot perform I am assuming here that you would disagree and I'm assuming that you would not enjoy being kicked for your disagreement before the party saw you perform.

Feel free to correct my assumptions.

 

 

Unlike you, the people in my parties understand sometimes we need them to play X Y or Z. If they're completely incapable of understanding that (attempts will be made to communicate), they need to go away, like you would if you behaved as you do in my lobby.

 

 

"Waaah, I will play what I want, no matter how it affects someone else" is the equivalent to a childish tantrum. You're allowed to be selfish, as it is a game, but you're going to play in another lobby, because you will be kicked from mine.

 

No, most definitely not "unlike me".

People in my parties understand we might sometimes need a particular skill-set offered by a few of the classes and we discuss which of us might be best suited to make that switch.  Sometimes that is me, sometimes that is another player.

But we're not talking about that here.

We are not talking about a party needing someone to switch to ensure enough DPS/CC/buffs are available.

We are talking about you deciding that someone else has made the wrong choice and demanding they change it or be kicked.

Recognising a gap in the party make up is not the same as you deciding the most optimal choice for others.

i need to stress that because I believe we are failing to communicate on this central point.

Recognising a gap in the party make up is not the same as you deciding the most optimal choice for others.

For clarity's sake, I'm not even trying to disagree with you on the comparative value of Archer vs. Hunter.

I'd agree with you that the Archer more easily offers utility to the party but that is not the point we are disagreeing on.

Just because I would bring an Archer, just because you'd prefer another player to bring an Archer does not obligate others to agree with my choice or to follow your demands.

Disagreeing with me and/or not following your demands does not doom the party to failure either, there are many paths to success in this game.

 

""Waaah, you will play what I want, no matter how it affects someone else" is the equivalent to a childish tantrum" 

You posted your thoughts on what constitutes a childish tantrum but this is what I hear.

You are putting demands on others and then claiming they are selfish if your demands are not followed, how is that something that you can say without even a twinge of irony?

You can bluster all you want about your thoughts on my place in your party but it's completely irrelevant.  It adds nothing to the discussion other than to try and get under my skin (it's not by the way).

We don't play on the same platform and I'm pretty sure by now we both know that even if it was a possibility I'd drop that lobby long before you could put up a kick vote.

You prioritise a maximized and efficient play experience, I prioritise a play experience that is fun and occasionally socially enjoyable.  Winning is more fun than losing, but not if I have to be rude to others to achieve it.

 

 

If you want a mediocre game, you're free to play your own, as all pugs are. You still don't get that and want to complain about how I run my party.

 

No, I want complain how you treat others in their party.

Unless someone asked you to join "your party" or you sent them an invite to a private match, it is not YOUR party, you are one of 4 people in a public match and their choices deserve respect not derision.

 

If you want to talk about a Private match, that's a entirely different kettle of fish and I retract everything.

[CMDR FACE]

Treasure room rule of thumb dont open the door unless your sure you can solo whats inside, and are pretty sure everyone wont die without you.

 

I pretty much only play pugs and have atleast 300 perilous pugs so they arent bad at all.  In my experience playing premades gets pretty boring pretty quick.  Unless your going for efficiency with the excitement of brushing your teeth i reccomend pugs.

 

In a perilous group last night there was a lego with an inquisition shield.  Noone booted him and yet we survived some how

 

Really?  Maybe you're not with the right group?  Most randoms are not using mics...which to me is less fun.  My group talks the whole time.  It's a lot of fun.

[Drasca]

Really?  Maybe you're not with the right group?  Most randoms are not using mics...which to me is less fun.  My group talks the whole time.  It's a lot of fun.

 

Totally this too. The ideal is killing fast, clearing fast, looting fast, all while joking around the entire time. Randoms don't talk often (or communicate), do all of the above slowly ( if at all ) and are being more likely to die.

 

Save the team the trouble and kick the pugs.

[Beerfish]

Reread the post. They play as much private as possible, kick early, and not arbitrarily. Pugs don't often make it multiple waves, because they're dead 3x by wave 2, and kicked for it.

 

Of course, I kick people while they're still in lobby, and save us all the trouble. Some people don't like that of course, but they don't have to play in my games.

Perhaps you need to reread the post again:

 

"single guard point in two waves."

 

"drop 2/3 times before wave 3."

 

"wander away at the other side of the map in Castle/wave 5"

 

"If you die you'll at best get ignored wave 4/5, get kicked earlier."

 

Please quote me the part where the person says they play private as much as possible? 

[ThatBruhYouDK]

Totally this too. The ideal is killing fast, clearing fast, looting fast, all while joking around the entire time. Randoms don't talk often (or communicate), do all of the above slowly ( if at all ) and are being more likely to die.

 

Save the team the trouble and kick the pugs.

I wont say otherwise but unless we have someone else coming, Wess Run and myself will keep the PUGs around teach them some things that they hopefully learn. A few people we kept playing with later days after adding

[Drasca]

Perhaps you need to reread the post again:

 

"single guard point in two waves."

 

"drop 2/3 times before wave 3."

 

"wander away at the other side of the map in Castle/wave 5"

 

"If you die you'll at best get ignored wave 4/5, get kicked earlier."

 

Please quote me the part where the person says they play private as much as possible? 

Looks like I need to explain things to you:

 

There's no minimum tolerance requirement here, that's a maximum tolerance listed.

 

Die 3x before wave 3. Usually, this is Zone 1, but given its threatening possibly lasting into Zone 2. This is maybe 3 minutes into the game (and my perilous old map games only last 7-10 minutes). Multiple waves only counts technically in this case, being zone 2. They get the boot before zone 3. I certainly boot way before then (usually lobby).

 

Second line is out of context, talking about treasure rooms.The / sign is an or statement, and they're talking best case scenario.

 

I've highlighted the kicked earlier portion just for you.

 

"I often play with friends" means plays private unless they have to fill with pugs. They wouldn't bother with pugs if they have friends available.

[Mad Godji]

You guys need to play more private matches in that case.  There is nothing more seedy imo than kicking a guy after multiple waves unless they are a 100% obvious leech doing nothing.  to wait around and play 2 or 3 or 4 waves and then deciding, gee we are going to kick this guy now because I hate they way he plays is low.

 

 

Perhaps you need to reread the post again:

 

"single guard point in two waves."

 

"drop 2/3 times before wave 3."

 

"wander away at the other side of the map in Castle/wave 5"

 

"If you die you'll at best get ignored wave 4/5, get kicked earlier."

 

Please quote me the part where the person says they play private as much as possible? 

 

I had not mentioned it, but Drasca guessed right, I actually do play private as much as possible. I almost never play without at least one or two friends available anymore, and tend to do most of my challenges solo. Indeed, some evenings, after two or three awful pickups, we prefer to go with partial groups in private games, even if it means not being able to make it, since while I do consider I hold my own in Perilous, I'm clearly not at a stage where I can solo it.

 

The whole point is that I do not like this state of affair, and almost never start my DAMP sessions like this. Most of my sessions start with me optimist, leaving the last one or two spots public, and hoping for the best. And let's be honest too, it actually does work well too at times. Surprisingly, I actually tend to get better results in Perilous : people tend to pay more attention, and obviously there are failed attempts, but I don't mind failing with people who do try to play as a group, because there is no reason why the next attempt won't suceed.

 

 

As for kicking late, if you re-read the exact parts you quoted, kicks occur before the end of wave 2. It takes some really weird situations for someone who played well for three waves start being silly wave 4, by then deaths can just be accidents. It's just that if raising you will endanger us unduly, we'll let you bleed out and not take that extra risk, but it is exceptional (I don't actually remember an actual case) for us to kick someone who's been with us for more than three waves, that indeed is a rather dirty move. (And again, I talk of deaths by someone who deliberately went on his own, we OBVIOUSLY do not kick people just for dying, heck, I'd still have to kick myself too often )

 

That's probably where I do not want to go as far as Drasca: it's pretty rare for us to kick in lobby, even with sub-par class synergies, and we do give benefit of the doubt to sub-levelled chars until we get burnt.  I know it sounds like a long enumeration, but really, it comes down to "play with the group". Actually, I'd rather bring a beginner who just reached lvl 8 with his first char in Threatening but does stick with the group (and will probably even do bother picking up all gold if I notice he has beginner equipment) than an "experimented" player who dies alone in a treasure room.

[Texasmotiv]

[Mad Godji]

In a perilous group last night there was a lego with an inquisition shield.  Noone booted him and yet we survived some how

 

See, while it would stll most likely make me raise an eyebrow, if the guy does his job, I have no issue with this. But even with a magehunter, if you open a door in the middle of a heavy pull, then yes, I'll vote kick.

[Beerfish]

Looks like I need to explain things to you:

 

There's no minimum tolerance requirement here, that's a maximum tolerance listed.

 

Die 3x before wave 3. Usually, this is Zone 1, but given its threatening possibly lasting into Zone 2. This is maybe 3 minutes into the game (and my perilous old map games only last 7-10 minutes). Multiple waves only counts technically in this case, being zone 2. They get the boot before zone 3. I certainly boot way before then (usually lobby).

 

So three times before wave three now suddenly means zone 1?  Quit putting words in the persons mouth.  Also there are tons of reasons for a player to go down often and if a guy is going down three times unless he is going leroy jenkins it is as much of the rest of the groups fault as anything.

 

Second line is out of context, talking about treasure rooms.The / sign is an or statement, and they're talking best case scenario.

 

Once again you are mind reading, you chastise me to reread the post and you are changing the context of the post at will.

 

I've highlighted the kicked earlier portion just for you.

 

"I often play with friends" means plays private unless they have to fill with pugs. They wouldn't bother with pugs if they have friends available.

 

No, no it doesn't at all mean private, not at all.  It means what it says, play with friends has nothing to do with private.

I'll stick to my guns on this one.  Unless a player is being a real and total goof it is low and lame to boot mid match because they are not paying to a preconceived standard. 

 

I had a game last night, a newer looking assassin joined the game, not a great player died alot but not through lack of effort.  i have a look and after a few waves the two other players toss up kick votes.  They ant to kick this guy after he as played about 3 waves, total dick move unless that player is a total leecher or total meat head, which this guy wasn't, he just was not that good.  I didn't kick him and we finished the match and the two friends that were playing, just let my character bleed out ion the last wave so they could do their thing.

[DrKilledbyDeath]

You know I was thinking. I pug almost all the time. My groups don't fail all the time, every match doesn't turn into a hot mess. I don't go to bed every night cursing pugs. I am actually quite satisfied with the people I run into. Some are bad, some are good but at the end of the day I don't really have issues at all with pugs.

 

That being said,

 

If someone claims all the pugs they play with are always awful and they always wipe and it's always a disaster, I now assume it is because you are the problem, not the pug. L2P

[Mad Godji]

I'll stick to my guns on this one.  Unless a player is being a real and total goof it is low and lame to boot mid match because they are not paying to a preconceived standard.

 

When you formulate it like this, it becomes very subjective and could sound like we're saying the same thing : it's just that I consider "opening a treasure room on your own, dying an letting your teammates being aggroed from behind by the mobs you let out" IS being a real and total goof

 

I had a game last night, a newer looking assassin joined the game, not a great player died alot but not through lack of effort.  i have a look and after a few waves the two other players toss up kick votes.  They ant to kick this guy after he as played about 3 waves, total dick move unless that player is a total leecher or total meat head, which this guy wasn't, he just was not that good.  I didn't kick him and we finished the match and the two friends that were playing, just let my character bleed out ion the last wave so they could do their thing.

That I have no issue with, and won't kick people for this (but then you were answering to Drasca, and that might be where he and I do not entirely agree either). Let's be very clear : the game itself literally tells you that between 8 and 16, you belong to Threatening (which is optimistic for a true beginner, laughable for someone well geared, but you don't know this when you start playing). I certainly will not blame someone for bringing his brand new lvl 10 with inquisition weapons to threatening, and if that person makes as you described the effort to try and stick with the group, will not mind at all if he wants to stick for more games and as I said will probably even take the time to pick up gold. Worst case if I wanted to rush a bit more, I'll dissolve lobby and create another after the end of the game.

[SpaceV3gan]

It always happens when I pug, particularly when I do Threatening as a level 1. Gladly I don't do it often...

This happened this morning:

 

In case someone is wondering about the result...

 

That is why I believe Prestige should be displayed on the lobby screen.

[Mad Godji]

You know I was thinking. I pug almost all the time. My groups don't fail all the time, every match doesn't turn into a hot mess. I don't go to bed every night cursing pugs. I am actually quite satisfied with the people I run into. Some are bad, some are good but at the end of the day I don't really have issues at all with pugs.

 

That being said,

 

If someone claims all the pugs they play with are always awful and they always wipe and it's always a disaster, I now assume it is because you are the problem, not the pug. L2P

Haha, you are right of course, and it is worth being reminded of this at this stage of the discussion. By nature the topic itself is about cases which go wrong, and I'd admit to a personnality flaw where a couple of cases going wrong can annoy me enough to make me forget many cases which go perfectly right. Again, my enumeration seems like a long list, but in the end, it's not that often that things go wrong. It could all be sum up to my one pet peeve which is treasure room.