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[Cypher0020]

This has probably been posted before but....

 

I'm rolling my latest FDC, and lore states that dwarves can't dream yada yada....

 

But soon after you leave Lothering, you dream of the Archdemon.......that should be impossible. I think even the dialogue states it being a dream....

 

So.... massive lore inconsistancy? Or the fact that a dwarf warden, now has the ability to dream, and therefore can now touch the Fade?

 

 

On some meta level, that freaks her out... imagine never dreaming...then getting the ability too, and then most of your dreams are going to be nightmares about death, blood, and darkspawn hunting you till the day you die

[Ferretinabun]

I think it's supposed to imply some sort of psychic/neural connection to the Archdemon through the taint rather than a 'natural' dream, so I wouldn't call it an inconsistency.

 

But yes, some possible reaction for a Dwarf warden freaking out about having a dream for the first time (must be an odd experience) would have been nice.

 

Oh well, them's the breaks. 

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

My understanding is that dwarves do have a connection to the Fade. It's usually disrupted by whatever grants them their magic resistance (I think it's probably the lyrium in the Stone but I'm not sure that's been confirmed by any canon source that can reasonably said would know for sure) but can be magically amplified.

Spoiler

(It is my understanding that this also explains why Oghren and a dwarven Warden can both be drawn into the Fade by the Sloth Abomination and by The First.)

[Cypher0020]

Yeah I just got that cutscene, the PC is definitely dreaming of the Blight/Archie and I'm on my dwarf file.

 

 

The Fade part never really made sense either. I believe Oghren thinks it's freaky, and rightly so, and I know a dwarf pc can't use the lyrium pools there but non dwarves can....

 

but yet dwarves like Sandal and Dagna can use magical equipment to enchant things.....

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

Yeah I just got that cutscene, the PC is definitely dreaming of the Blight/Archie and I'm on my dwarf file.

 

 

The Fade part never really made sense either. I believe Oghren thinks it's freaky, and rightly so, and I know a dwarf pc can't use the lyrium pools there but non dwarves can....

 

but yet dwarves like Sandal and Dagna can use magical equipment to enchant things.....

If we're going to reconcile that contradiction without writing it off as the Fade being incredibly weird, it would probably be something to do with dwarves being resistant to lyrium's properties. This is why Sandal, Dagna, and Garin are able to smith lyrium, though Garin did receive brain damage from it since even dwarves don't handle having their bloodstream exposed to it all that well.

 

Spoiler

As for Oghren thinking the Fade is freaky, he does. I think his funniest line in the series is the one where he gets drawn into the Fade in Awakening after being drawn in during Origins. "Not again! Stop doing this to me!"

[Cypher0020]

Oh yeaaah. I totally forgot the Fade part in Awakenings. 

 

Wish we could recruit Oghren earlier in the game....

[andy6915]

Oh yeaaah. I totally forgot the Fade part in Awakenings. 

 

Wish we could recruit Oghren earlier in the game....

 

You can. I once got him right out of Lothering. I did all the quests right up until he enters the party and then left the rest of the quest until near the end. Only problem was that I couldn't actually talk to him at camp because he just says to stop wasting time, but he still makes comments and stuff when taken to quests. Since it was the first and only time I ever got him early, I brought him everywhere. EVERYWHERE. He was with me for every single main quest in the game.

 

...Haven't done it since then though. I don't like starting Orzammar that early. But I did make an exception that one time because I wanted to experience what he's like for quests I never got the chance to bring him to. Sacred Ashes was the best one, his comments during that quest were great.

[Cypher0020]

Really? I thought you'd get turned into paste if you tried Orzzamar early....

 

So basically get up to whree you are going after Branka, but don't finish that part, eh?

[andy6915]

Really? I thought you'd get turned into paste if you tried Orzzamar early....

 

So basically get up to whree you are going after Branka, but don't finish that part, eh?

 

Exactly. And yeah, you do get turned to paste... On higher difficulties. But for that place, I broke my own rule and played on casual for the Frostback Mountains outside the city. Without doing that, the mercs and Loghain's wiper certainly do indeed shove a cactus up your ass without being gentle about it. Orzammar itself was easy though, even that early in the game I didn't find the Carta base too bad at all even on hard and nightmare.

 

You know, there's actually an exploit for that hard battle. If a party member goes to that little circular stone thingy those gossipers are standing on, it somehow revives all other party members. Just use the dog for fast running speeds to cheat your way through it by constantly running to it as the dog. It's that or playing casual if you try to beat them at level 7.

[Cypher0020]

I always play my games on casual lol.....

 

I usually do RC/Tower/dalish/orzzamar/ashes 

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

Really? I thought you'd get turned into paste if you tried Orzzamar early....

It is neither impossible nor easy.

 

I always play my games on casual lol.....

 

I usually do RC/Tower/dalish/orzzamar/ashes 

Same as far as the difficulty level, but I usually vary the order and I only did Redcliffe first once; I usually prefer to do the Circle first. I did Orzammar first once, as my first Dwarf Noble. It was difficult. Then for my second DN I did the Circle Tower first and Orzammar second. That wasn't as hard.

[andy6915]

I always play my games on casual lol.....

 

I usually do RC/Tower/dalish/orzzamar/ashes 

 

I always play on nightmare for DAO. Well, for most of the game. The difficulty swings all over the place depending on your level and equipment, so I adjust it as I go. I start on normal at the beginning, but switch to nightmare once I enter the camp for the first time. I find the game gets easier at that point.

[Cypher0020]

I tried Vet mode on Mass Effect, and thaaaaaaaat was enough for me

 

I'm getting my butt handed to me enough in Bloodbourne

[TEWR]

The game's loading screen and Word of God by Gaider years ago confirm that Dwarves do dream, but not in the Fade.

 

 

 

Dwarves do not enter the Fade when they dream, yes. This doesn't mean they are barred from the Fade (as is evident from the fact that a demon can force them in), they simply do not go there naturally.

 

The phrasing is of course quite clear. If one was to say they don't dream at all, one would say "Dwarves don't dream at all."

 

Even Oghren had a dream in Awakening that wasn't a Warden dream, and he has a freak-out at the notion of being in the Fade later on -- which ends up saying that dreaming is natural for Oghren and Dwarves. Going to The Fade is going to freak him and any other Dwarf the hell out, dream or no.

 

Which makes subsequent games "DWARVES DON'T DREAM AT ALL" strike me as a crock and retcon. 

 

It's not really clear if the Dwarf Wardens are in the Fade as they dream of all that Taint-like goodness with the Archdemon. The landscape and atmosphere looks the part, to be sure, but it's pointed out that what the Wardens have is a connection to the Archdemon and Darkspawn hive-mind, and we haven't really seen anything to indicate that the Darkspawn hold a connection to the Fade far as I can recall -- given that their magic draws itself from the Taint in their blood and Demons know nothing about Darkspawn/The Taint other then what they might see in dreams.

[andy6915]

The game's loading screen and Word of God by Gaider years ago confirm that Dwarves do dream, but not in the Fade.
 
 
The phrasing is of course quite clear. If one was to say they don't dream at all, one would say "Dwarves don't dream at all."
 
Even Oghren had a dream in Awakening that wasn't a Warden dream, and he has a freak-out at the notion of being in the Fade later on -- which ends up saying that dreaming is natural for Oghren and Dwarves. Going to The Fade is going to freak him and any other Dwarf the hell out, dream or no.
 
Which makes subsequent games "DWARVES DON'T DREAM AT ALL" strike me as a crock and retcon. 
 
It's not really clear if the Dwarf Wardens are in the Fade as they dream of all that Taint-like goodness with the Archdemon. The landscape and atmosphere looks the part, to be sure, but it's pointed out that what the Wardens have is a connection to the Archdemon and Darkspawn hive-mind, and we haven't really seen anything to indicate that the Darkspawn hold a connection to the Fade far as I can recall -- given that their magic draws itself from the Taint in their blood and Demons know nothing about Darkspawn/The Taint other then what they might see in dreams.

 
Well that contradicts in-game dialogue.
 
“dwarves don't dream, we sleep like the stone”.

 

-Oghren quote

[TEWR]

The writing's been all over the place, yeah. 

 

I prefer to think that Dwarves do dream, but in the sense of what we tend to do in our world. Our mind creates the images and that's all it is, rather then the Dwarves going to a realm where their mind creates a reality that they are, at best, only acutely aware of.

 

If that makes sense.

[andy6915]

Do you think fever dreams are a thing in Thedas? You know, those really chaotic and crazy dreams you get when you have a high fever? I was sick recently and had one of the worst sleeps in my life, and my fever dreams were out of control bonkers during it. With how the Fade is how non-dwarves dream, do elves and humans and qunari (race) have fever dreams? Or does having a fever cause the spirits that make your dreams to lose their minds for a while and make particularly insane dreams out of lunacy until you either wake up or the fever ends at which point they regain their composure?

[Cypher0020]

So that is a massive retcon? I remember in-game Oghren's nightmare in Awakenings......

[andy6915]

So that is a massive retcon? I remember in-game Oghren's nightmare in Awakenings......

 

A nightmare had after being a Warden, even if it was a bit... Different, for a Darkspawn dream.

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

Do you think fever dreams are a thing in Thedas? You know, those really chaotic and crazy dreams you get when you have a high fever? I was sick recently and had one of the worst sleeps in my life, and my fever dreams were out of control bonkers during it. With how the Fade is how non-dwarves dream, do elves and humans and qunari (race) have fever dreams? Or does having a fever cause the spirits that make your dreams to lose their minds for a while and make particularly insane dreams out of lunacy until you either wake up or the fever ends at which point they regain their composure?

Well, you still control the environment subconciously from what I understand, and having a high fever would probably not be conducive to relatively orderly dreams in Thedas for the same reasons it's not in real life. Why not?

 

As for the effect it has on spirits, a dream is to some degree them showing what they've picked up by studying and trying to understand your experiences. If fever dreams really are a thing, I'd hate to meet any spirit who does them on a regular basis. (Oh, who am I kidding? That would be an awesome boss battle.)

[screwyajax]

speaking of the whole dreaming and fade thing, why is it the Deshyrs all have magical staves and how is it that Branka can use lyrium, if indeed the dwarves can't do magic?

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

speaking of the whole dreaming and fade thing, why is it the Deshyrs all have magical staves and how is it that Branka can use lyrium, if indeed the dwarves can't do magic?

Branka using lyrium is probably something like Varric's Artificer abilities or Sera's Tempest abilities: it's not something innate to them, it's some device they have up their sleeves that is fueled by lyrium, though in Branka's case she needs more than she has and therefore needs the freestanding veins. The deshyrs magical staves are badges of office, and it's worth noting Harrowmont can't use his as a weapon if pressed. (If I remember correctly he has to punch the other deshyrs during Bhelen's attempted coup if you crown him.) Though as to your main question, why they're enchanted if the dwarves can't use them that way, I'm not sure.