424 réponses à ce sujet

[Suron]

wtf three?

[Suron]

I'm usually annoyed by people that due exactly what I am about too...nitpick someones opinion..buuuuuuut

 

Tali also just watched her "lover" basically say "**** off Quarians" and allowed Legion to upload the code so her people could be wiped out.

 

if anything romancing her cements her wanting to kill herself after having just watched the person she loves allow her people to be wiped out.

I had another run where I romanced no one in part one romanced Tali in part 2, and in three I let Legion do his thing......and Tali Killed herself.  Yes, I know there's a way to make peace between the geth and quarian and she lives, but I think If you romanced her, that should have trumped the suicide thing.

[Batarian Master Race]

As someone who just attempted to rush through ME3 for the purpose of unlocking bonus powers... unskippable cutscenes.

 

Also ME3 Ash.

[Vanilka]

The lack of map during missions in ME2 and ME3.

 

THE LACK OF MAP DURING MISSIONS IN ME2 AND ME3.

[Dantriges]

Tali also just watched her "lover" basically say "**** off Quarians" and allowed Legion to upload the code so her people could be wiped out.

 

if anything romancing her cements her wanting to kill herself after having just watched the person she loves allow her people to be wiped out.

 

Surprising that Tali didn´t pull out the shotgun, Wrex style.

[themikefest]

Surprising that Tali didn´t pull out the shotgun, Wrex style.

Yeah she was quick with the knife when Shepard is attacked by the geth, but stands around doing nothing about stopping the geth from uploading the code. Obviously she never cared about her species.

[Dantriges]

Probably not, she had no chance anyways and was devastated that her idol backstabbed her whole species for the help of some lampheads.

[aoibhealfae]

As someone who just attempted to rush through ME3 for the purpose of unlocking bonus powers... unskippable cutscenes.

 

Also ME3 Ash.

Its way easier if you just toggle via Gibbed and use the save files during the dock confrontation so that Kaidan died in ME1 and Ashley lives. Then you get her Marksman later.

 

I like how FemShep treated Ashley like her best friend but I don't like how she's reduced as Shepard's subordinate despite the Spectre rank. It didn't really feel like it changed anything with her being alive.

[prosthetic soul]

There's only one thing I truly abhorred in the Mass Effect trilogy.  And that was the ending. 

 

Transgression 1. Starbrat replaces both the antagonists (The Reapers) AND the protagonist (Shepard) in the last 10 minutes of the entire trilogy.  Instead of Shepard saving the day, the Starbrat basically just swooped in and allowed Shepard to defeat the Reapers.  Ergo, you never feel like the hero at the end. 

 

Transgression 2. Too many things were abandoned or changed at the last minute and that destroyed narrative coherence. 

 

Transgression 3. The ending did away with character focus.  Why did anyone play the Mass Effect trilogy?  I don't want to speak for anyone here but I sincerely doubt it was for some nebulous idea of TAKING BACK EARTH™.   The selling point of Mass Effect hasn't been its combat.  It's been its RPG elements.  It's the dialogue wheel.  The interacting with characters.  The making of decisions that affect the world around you.  And what does the ending do?  It takes all that away.

 

Transgression 4 The ending does away with the central conflict. Mass Effect could not decide what it wanted to do with the central conflict of this trilogy.  We went from trying to stop the Reapers to....trying to stop some age-old feud between organics and synthetics?  Can't do that Bioware.  You cannot swap the central conflict for another in the last 10 minutes of the game, much less at any other  time in the story. 

-------

Here is what I would do to overhaul the ending. 

-------

Fix 1. Keep the Reaper's motivations unexplained.  Mass Effect was never about the Reapers' motivations.  It was about the hero Shepard and his/her companions.  There is no need to explain why they're doing what they're doing.  The second you try to elaborate on it everything falls apart.  I don't care how good a reason anyone has concocted up in their fanfiction, it will never. work.

 

Fix 2. Take out starbrat.  Get rid of him.  He is the star around which this turd of planets in this solar system of refuse revolve around.  He cannot be present.  Period. 

 

Fix 3. Keep the endings character focused.  As with Jade Empire, it would be good to explain what happened to each and every party member, a la animal house, sans the dumb music and still footage of course.  It's been done before, it can be done again. 

 

Fix 4. I don't mind if Shepard dies in some endings, but leave one ending in which he assuredly survives and carries on.  None of this "did he or didn't he" crap.  Keep the endings varied.  Maybe he survives in one ending, maybe he dies in another, maybe he controls the Reapers, or something else happens entirely.  I would take out Synthesis though.  Synthesis is too out there and too farfetched.  It doesn't make a lick of sense and breaks the lore of the entire trilogy.  Just give me anything other than three railroaded methods of suicide and a chance of living in a fourth.   And as I explained earlier, this is a character-focused trilogy.  Headcanoning it up or making the endings ambiguous does nothing but a disservice to both the story and the ending itself. 

 

Fix 5.  Focus on the details while not making things overly-complex.  The starbrat comes in and explains nary a thing and we're just supposed to go along with it.  This ruins the suspension of disbelief and internal consistency of the trilogy's story.  This is sci-fi, not fantasy.  We can't have a wizard come in out of nowhere with a magic staff and pull a unicorn out of his rear.

[themikefest]

Not being able to ask questions

 

In ME2 I would like to ask Miranda how my body came to be in her possession. How much of me was rebuilt? 

 

Ask the ME1 characters why they made no effort to find a way to stop the reapers

 

I wanted to ask questions in the broker dlc

 

In ME3 I wanted to ask questions to Anderson and Hackett. I wanted to ask a couple of questions on Mars. Ask a question to Wrex/Wreav/Eve. I wanted to ask the squadmates why they didn't provide cover fire or speak up on my behalf.

 

I wanted to ask questions to the catalyst and not just the few Shepard was able to ask.

[Inquisitor_Jonah]

While I love this trilogy, there's somethings that happened that makes me want to punch the writers in the face... so thank you for this topic xD Let's go

 

1) Shepard's forced death at the beginning of ME2. It's not that he dies and was revived that annoys me. Is that they made him fall like a comet trough the atmosphere of a planet. Common sense dictates his body would have been disintegrated and literally be space dust at best. It was really insulting. If they wanted to kill Shepard, they could have done it at the end of ME1 wen Sovereign's debris falls into the council chambers... it would be way more believable. Or if they really wanted to tie in his death with the collectors, they could have made it in a ground mission or something, like he was investigating some geth attack and was ambushed by the collectors. In the way they did it, there wouldn't be a body, even a mutilated one like they claim in the story, so please Bioware, get your facts straight.

 

2) Liara hiding the news she got about Shepard being "alive" in Omega. She could easily track the crew and ask for backup. Have she just asked to meet with the crew and say the news in person, would make her closer to her ME1 self. "Met me in Omega, its important" or something. The way she handed this was really egoistical. And let's not forget the fact that she pretty much trusted a terrorist "anti-alien" group to try to "revive" Shepard. Seriously Bioware? WTF? I liked Liara in ME1, in ME2 they screwed her so badly I didn't even recognize the character. Sure, make the character tougher because of a traumatic event, but don't make they look like a completely different character in the process, it's annoying (hello Leliana ¬¬). At least in ME3 they brought a little of her old self back.

 

3) Breather Masks and shirtless characters in vacuum and under heavy gun fire. It's like at this point, Bioware didn't even care for logic. In the next game, let us decide again what armor the companions will wear, like in ME1. At lest this way we don't have to deal with this reality and immersion breaking **** again.

 

4) Outside the romance scenes, it was like the LI had little importance for the overall story, unless of course, if that LI was Liara. If not, to bad, Liara will still be closer to your character, like it or not. DON'T do that again. I'm not a Liara hater, like I said, I liked her in ME1. But I don't like the excessive content given to her, and the way they butchered her character in ME2. Hell, even Ali Hills (Liara's VO for those who didn't know) admitted she didn't recognize Liara in lair of the shadow broker in an interview (she even said "this is not Liara"). If the player choses a LI, it's because the player likes that character more, so make that character come up and be supportive, don't bring in another LI and force a frendship on us. If there has to be a "best friend" in the game let us decide who it is, like we decide everything else.

And if you are going to make a DLC for a LI that wasn't even avaliable in the game in question, make it for all that aren't in it too or don't do it at all. Or even just make them show up in just one DLC. Like I said, if Liara wasn't so egoistical she would have contacted the crew and this way, the shadow broker dlc would have the old crew involved in it, making it more balanced out. But instead, they create a boring Thane clone and put him in it  ¬¬ He only gets slightly interesting if you read the comics, but then again, they were just giving Liara even more content. She gets a mini-series with a very good art design, while the others get one shots whit crappy drawings and better be happy about it. Sheesh

 

5) Planet scanning. Seriously, whoever had this "brilliant" Idea needs to be shoot in the head ASAP >_<

 

6) As @themikefest just said in his/her ( seriously, I can't tell the gender of most of you guys, sorry )  post, the lack of relevant questions in the dialog well in ME2 and mainly ME3 was really annoying. Was Shepard becoming dumber a side effect of the Lazarus project or something?

 

By the way, sorry for the long post lol

[Eromenos]

Cerberus

Bugs

Mako

Catsuits

TIM

Omega

Batarians

Collectors

Morinth

Heat Clips

Starchild's voice

 

ME2- unbelievable that Shepard would not try everything to reunite with the SR1 team. Poor plot device to justify presence of Cerberus/TIM.

 

M/M not coming standard until ME3

 

I'm not a fan of Blade Runner or Basic Instinct. ME2 was.

[Batarian Master Race]

 

Batarians

 

Reported.

[Goodmongo]

I like how FemShep treated Ashley like her best friend but I don't like how she's reduced as Shepard's subordinate despite the Spectre rank. It didn't really feel like it changed anything with her being alive.

 

Spectre or not she is still a lower rank in the alliance than Shepard so in fact she is Shepard's subordinate.

 

Not being able to ask questions

 

No game really allows this.  The technology just isn't there.  Besides it might lead to hundreds of questions as yours will be different than mine which are different than the next person's.  While a nice concept this won't happen in a game for very long time.

 

 

1) Shepard's forced death at the beginning of ME2. It's not that he dies and was revived that annoys me. Is that they made him fall like a comet trough the atmosphere of a planet. Common sense dictates his body would have been disintegrated and literally be space dust at best. 

 

 

Not really true.  Depends on the suit protection.  People have jumped from 135,000 feet up and didn't burn up.  So I disagree that common sense says they will burn up.  Many variables involved.

 

EDIT:  Oh wait sorry.  Didn't realize that the things we don't like should be based on reality and that anything goes.  So here's mine.

 

1) I'm mad that it didn't predict the lottery numbers for the next year so I can get rich.

2) I'm mad that no virtual love interest ever appeared next to me while playing the game.

3) I'm mad that Bioware actually charged me money to buy the game

4) I'm mad that my name wasn't the first one in the credits.

5) I'm mad that they didn't run into the Borg.

[Batarian Master Race]

 

Not really true.  Depends on the suit protection.  People have jumped from 135,000 feet up and didn't burn up.  So I disagree that common sense says they will burn up.  Many variables involved.

 

Y'know, thinking about it, Shepard seems immune to friction. Look at ME3, where he slides down all sorts of stuff without tearing his fancy dress clothes.

[themikefest]

No game really allows this.  The technology just isn't there.  Besides it might lead to hundreds of questions as yours will be different than mine which are different than the next person's.  While a nice concept this won't happen in a game for very long time.

What technology is not there to allow the main character to ask questions?

[Goodmongo]

What technology is not there to allow the main character to ask questions?

 

Funny you should ask because the missing technology is an AI/VI.  Seriously.

 

In programming we either have to anticipate every question and provide an answer or we have to program it so the application can

 

1) understand what the question is.

2) provide an answer that is not gibberish but based on facts and data and relate to the actual question.

 

Most politicians miss #2 when they answer questions.  

 

The game would either have to either pre-load hundreds/thousands of potential questions or be able to understand and interpret the question.

[themikefest]

Funny you should ask because the missing technology is an AI/VI.  Seriously.

Funny? Ok. Maybe next time I will laugh
 

In programming we either have to anticipate every question and provide an answer or we have to program it so the application can

Who is we?
 

2) provide an answer that is not gibberish but based on facts and data and relate to the actual question.

They don't have to provide an answer or they can side step the question with some comment. Just give Shepard the opportunity to ask the question
 

Most politicians miss #2 when they answer questions.

Is there a reason you mentioned politicians?  
 

The game would either have to either pre-load hundreds/thousands of potential questions or be able to understand and interpret the question.

If I can't ask questions that apply to characters in the game, than Bioware is giving me no reason to like those characters since I can't ask them why they didn't do this or do that.

I'm sure a question to Liara about asking her why she didn't download the plans to the device when she first saw them would be a common one folks would like to ask.

Another question is why she has Shepard's armor in a glass case in her apartment on display like its some kind of trophy. I'm sure a lot of folks would be curious about that

Asking Miranda how Cerberus got hold of Shepard's body would be something folks may want to ask

Why couldn't Shepard ask the ME1 characters why they made no effort to find a way to stop the reapers. I would really like to hear the answers to that question

It doesn't have to be a lot of questions. The few examples I gave above would be one's that would fit in the game. Wouldn't you like to know answers to a couple of those questions?
 

[Goodmongo]

Who is we?

 

 

We being myself and any other programmer.

 

They don't have to provide an answer or they can side step the question with some comment. Just give Shepard the opportunity to ask the question

 

An interface will need to be added that allows you to input your question.  This is actually very old technology and games from the late 1980's and early 1990's used this.  (See Infocom for examples).  You type your question and if it was programmed for (using key words) you might get a response that made sense.  Otherwise you get an answer like "I don't have enough data to answer that."

 

But the industry left this because frankly most players didn't like it.  Their questions were rarely answered because the number of possibilities had to be limited.  Now add in voice acting and the costs go even higher.  

 

Is there a reason you mentioned politicians?  

 

If I can't ask questions that apply to characters in the game, than Bioware is giving me no reason to like those characters since I can't ask them why they didn't do this or do that.

 

Politicians and poor AI will respond alike.  You'll get talking points.

 

So you didn't like Mordin?  You couldn't ask him any questions outside of the ones programmed for.  I think it's a little hyperbole to say that they are giving you "no" reason to like a character.  They give you plenty of reasons.

 

 

I'm sure a question to Liara about asking her why she didn't download the plans to the device when she first saw them would be a common one folks would like to ask.

Another question is why she has Shepard's armor in a glass case in her apartment on display like its some kind of trophy. I'm sure a lot of folks would be curious about that

Asking Miranda how Cerberus got hold of Shepard's body would be something folks may want to ask

Why couldn't Shepard ask the ME1 characters why they made no effort to find a way to stop the reapers. I would really like to hear the answers to that question

It doesn't have to be a lot of questions. The few examples I gave above would be one's that would fit in the game. Wouldn't you like to know answers to a couple of those questions?
 

 

Really what difference would most of those answers make, especially if you don't like the answer because of personal taste.  I.E.

 

Liara:  Well Shep I was busy doing other things and just didn't have time.

 

Liara:  I took your armor because I thought it might be worth something on G-Bay the auction site someday.

 

Miranda: Well TIM ordered it done and he seldom explains his motives.  I worked for TIM and did what he wanted.  Besides I came onto the project after they got your body so I really have no clue there.

 

Council:  Well Shep you were right but that's old news now.  To quote a politician from Earth's past "What difference does it make?"

 

Filling in more story/lore is always nice.  I agree with you there.  But these questions weren't ground breaking and in games there has to be unknowns.  I think the ONLY game that tried to answer all relevant questions was Planescape Torment but even that masterpiece couldn't answer everything.  Some things just have to be left to the imagination.

 

Let me put it this way.  There are hundreds of movies where we have an open question or two that are never answered.  Plot points that start out but never finish.  Sopranos on HBO was famous for this.  Doesn't mean you can't like the movie or show.  And if movies tried to answer everything it would be way too long to watch.

[Inquisitor_Jonah]

Not really true.  Depends on the suit protection.  People have jumped from 135,000 feet up and didn't burn up.  So I disagree that common sense says they will burn up.  Many variables involved.

 

EDIT:  Oh wait sorry.  Didn't realize that the things we don't like should be based on reality and that anything goes.  So here's mine.

 

1) I'm mad that it didn't predict the lottery numbers for the next year so I can get rich.

2) I'm mad that no virtual love interest ever appeared next to me while playing the game.

3) I'm mad that Bioware actually charged me money to buy the game

4) I'm mad that my name wasn't the first one in the credits.

5) I'm mad that they didn't run into the Borg.

The codex pretty much says the suits were made of ceramic and the parts that need to be flexible were made of fabric. And if you are considering the sheild system, remember that mission with the dying sun? It pretty much says how the shields behave in extreme heat.

 

And the topic pretty much says "Everything you hate" so why are you bitching about my post?

[SpaceLobster]

The fact that I wasted four hours trying to complete the Mirror Match on Insanity. Didn't even get 9999+ points, had to waste another couple of minutes fighting super elites.

[themikefest]

So you didn't like Mordin?

I never said I didn't like him. I was referring to the ME1 characters
 

I think it's a little hyperbole to say that they are giving you "no" reason to like a character.  They give you plenty of reasons.

What reasons do the game give to like them?
  

Let me put it this way.

Let me put it this way. Its something I didn't like. Isn't that what the thread is for? To list the things people hate in the trilogy.

[Vanilka]

An interface will need to be added that allows you to input your question.  This is actually very old technology and games from the late 1980's and early 1990's used this.  (See Infocom for examples).  You type your question and if it was programmed for (using key words) you might get a response that made sense.  Otherwise you get an answer like "I don't have enough data to answer that."

 

But the industry left this because frankly most players didn't like it.  Their questions were rarely answered because the number of possibilities had to be limited.  Now add in voice acting and the costs go even higher.  

 

Really what difference would most of those answers make, especially if you don't like the answer because of personal taste.  I.E.

 

Well, nobody says there has to be an interface for manual input or something. The writers would just have to go and make those questions like they normally do. And I agree with themikefest - so many things happened and did not happen while Shepard was dead, there are so many things unclear, and we never get a chance to ask or talk about some very relevant things that should've come up naturally. I mean, for example, Shepard died and was resurrected. She went through a pretty nasty experience, woke up after two years to absolute chaos, with all her friends gone, with her life gone. Why do we pretty much never get a moment to talk about how much that sucks and how Shepard deals with it? Why is Shepard not interested in what happened? That should be a no-brainer. What was the point of having Shepard die if the death itself and its circumstances are barely ever mentioned again? There are better ways to make a person join an organisation than have them die and then recover and resurrect them in a completely improbable way. And, to be honest, I'm totally and absolutely interested in what the former crew did while Shepard was gone and why Liara suddenly turned creepy. That requires no AIs or VIs, that only requires addition of more dialogues.

 

And what it would be good for? This is a roleplaying game. We care about these characters (The Virmire Survivor gets particularly awful treatment.) and we care about Shepard. Dialogues are one of the things that make BW games stand out. It's what BW is darn good at. I don't know how themikefest's ideas are not relevant. I know they would improve the game for me.

[Dantriges]

As I understood Mikefest he wanted to be able to ask some of the more obvious questions BW glossed over, which could be done with more options on the dialogue wheel, not a freeform keyword based Q&A. 

[Monica21]

As I understood Mikefest he wanted to be able to ask some of the more obvious questions BW glossed over, which could be done with more options on the dialogue wheel, not a freeform keyword based Q&A. 

 

I would love to go into my "the problem with RPGs these days is..." spiel, but I'll spare you all. Regardless, I agree with themikefest. There are a lot of unanswered questions especially in ME2. I hated the conversation on Horizon with both Kaidan and Ashley. Neither reflect what I actually wanted to say or ask of either character, and that's just one example.