424 réponses à ce sujet

[Vanilka]

I would love to go into my "the problem with RPGs these days is..." spiel, but I'll spare you all. Regardless, I agree with themikefest. There are a lot of unanswered questions especially in ME2. I hated the conversation on Horizon with both Kaidan and Ashley. Neither reflect what I actually wanted to say or ask of either character, and that's just one example.

 

That conversation is such a train wreck, especially when you romanced one of them. You don't even get an option to tell them you missed them or something. Shepard's just like, "Hey, man, how've you been?" I'd freaking flip out, too. They don't even know Shepard was really dead and not just avoiding them, and you don't get to explain anything. How do we not get to say those things? Anderson is a moron and keeps them in the dark about Shepard being alive even if you visited him and got your Spectre status back. It's perfectly understandable they wouldn't join a terrorist group that's outlawed in the Council space, I wouldn't even expect otherwise, I like the idea, but how it was all done... well, they deserved better.

 

That's one of the things that bother me a great deal, too. I think the lame treatment of the VS continues even afterwards in ME3 where they get absurdly injured for some really forced drama and taken away for half a game only to eventually show up, looking kind of incompetent during the Cerberus coup. I mean, I think the characters make the most out of the little they get, but what's up with all that?

[Goodmongo]

The codex pretty much says the suits were made of ceramic and the parts that need to be flexible were made of fabric. And if you are considering the sheild system, remember that mission with the dying sun? It pretty much says how the shields behave in extreme heat.

 

And the topic pretty much says "Everything you hate" so why are you bitching about my post?

 

Ceramics are great at heat protection, not to mention the great advances in ceramics we made just since the 1960's.  Fabric is not defined.  Can people from the middle ages understand nylon which is a fabric?  What about kevlar?  So just saying "fabric" doesn't define anything.  Now if it said cotton or wool then you have a case.

 

I never said I didn't like him. I was referring to the ME1 characters
 

What reasons do the game give to like them?
  

Let me put it this way. Its something I didn't like. Isn't that what the thread is for? To list the things people hate in the trilogy.

 

Well what about Garrus then?  Did you not like him in ME1?  I didn't like that the game cost money but it wasn't something that

 

1) Could be resolved, AND

2) Relevant to the actual game.

 

I think it's better to point out things we don't like that is relevant (which yours were, but others are not) and which can be fixed considering the state of game making and technology.

 

Well, nobody says there has to be an interface for manual input or something. The writers would just have to go and make those questions like they normally do. And I agree with themikefest 

 

Well if you agree then you are also saying that there has to be a way to "ASK" questions.  I clearly pointed out that a question person A wants to know is not the same as person B.  So that means hundreds or thousands of questions might have to be included.  It isn't feasible.  The interface will breakdown.  Just trying to navigate to YOUR questions would be a pain.

 

Not to mention all the voice acting costs to answer all of these questions.  And as I also showed an answer might not be what you want or expect so therefore nothing is gained.  I clearly answered every one of those questions but conveyed zero information.  I bet it wasn't satisfying if that's what you got int he game.  So no benefit no need to go there.  The devs clearly felt that all relevant questions or questions that they had answers to were included.  This is important.   Maybe the devs just don't have an answer because its story telling magic like you see in every movie ever made or in every book ever written.

 

Gee Gandalf why couldn't you just call the Eagles and fly Frodo to Mount Doom?  Wouldn't that be easier and faster?

[Goodmongo]

That conversation is such a train wreck, especially when you romanced one of them. You don't even get an option to tell them you missed them or something. Shepard's just like, "Hey, man, how've you been?" I'd freaking flip out, too. They don't even know Shepard was really dead and not just avoiding them, and you don't get to explain anything. How do we not get to say those things? Anderson is a moron and keeps them in the dark about Shepard being alive even if you visited him and got your Spectre status back. It's perfectly understandable they wouldn't join a terrorist group that's outlawed in the Council space, I wouldn't even expect otherwise, I like the idea, but how it was all done... well, they deserved better.

 

 

Sorry but I can't resist this.

 

So your Shepard does say exactly what you outlined above.  Kaiden/Ashley says "Tell it to the hand" and walks away.

 

Many relationships are exactly just like what happened.  One side has so much anger that nothing you say or do will change it at that moment.  The other party simply refuses to hear it and wants to vent.  They are not working form logic but pure emotion.

 

Feel better?

[themikefest]

Well what about Garrus then?  Did you not like him in ME1?

I don't like him. I'm guessing you do since you mention his name
 

I didn't like that the game cost money but it wasn't something that
 
1) Could be resolved, AND
2) Relevant to the actual game.

No one said you had to buy the game.
 

[Dantriges]

 They don't even know Shepard was really dead and not just avoiding them, and you don't get to explain anything. How do we not get to say those things? Anderson is a moron and keeps them in the dark about Shepard being alive even if you visited him and got your Spectre status back.

 

I try to imagine how it would go.

 

VS: Shepard`Where have you been the last two years, we mourned you, we even buried an empty casket because we couldn´t find a body. I stood at your Grave you stupid *please insert string of insults here.*

 

Shep: Well I was dead but I got better. 

 

VS: What? How? You disappeared for two years and all you have to tell me is some lame joke of an explanation. Go away.

 

The problem is, that no one knows it´s eve possible, I mean it should be impossible given the condition of Shep´s corpse. Even if they would believe you that you think you are Commander Shepard, the more likely explanation would be that Shep is a clone with some serious brainwashing.

I agree, it seems the whole Anderson scene wasn´t really well integrated into the storyline.

[Vanilka]

Well if you agree then you are also saying that there has to be a way to "ASK" questions.  I clearly pointed out that a question person A wants to know is not the same as person B.  So that means hundreds or thousands of questions might have to be included.  It isn't feasible.  The interface will breakdown.  Just trying to navigate to YOUR questions would be a pain.
 
Not to mention all the voice acting costs to answer all of these questions.  And as I also showed an answer might not be what you want or expect so therefore nothing is gained.  I clearly answered every one of those questions but conveyed zero information.  I bet it wasn't satisfying if that's what you got int he game.  So no benefit no need to go there.  The devs clearly felt that all relevant questions or questions that they had answers to were included.  This is important.   Maybe the devs just don't have an answer because its story telling magic like you see in every movie ever made or in every book ever written.
 
Gee Gandalf why couldn't you just call the Eagles and fly Frodo to Mount Doom?  Wouldn't that be easier and faster?

 
It has never been said here somebody's expecting to have 3165316133 questions on one dialogue wheel. That's something you came up with for some reason. But if you make a game where the protagonist dies, it's only logical it should be brought up throughout the game, not just in one hectic conversation at the very beginning. It's not rocket science.

 

Sorry but I can't resist this.

So your Shepard does say exactly what you outlined above. Kaiden/Ashley says "Tell it to the hand" and walks away.

Many relationships are exactly just like what happened. One side has so much anger that nothing you say or do will change it at that moment. The other party simply refuses to hear it and wants to vent. They are not working form logic but pure emotion.

Feel better?

Except that no. You barely get to say anything of value and that's simply bad writing. The mere fact that the VS tells you that they're there to investigate Cerberus and then leave without interrogating Shepard shows you how much thought the writers put into the conversation. I'm not saying Shepard should be able to magically fix the situation. In fact, I fully support the VS's decision. What I'm saying is that the conversation is written badly and its only purpose is to show you that the VS still exists, use them as a stupid plot device, and then dispose of them.

 

Your argument is absolutely invalid because the VS does not leave because they're mad at Shepard. They leave because they refuse to work for Cerberus. And, as I said, that's perfectly fine, but it's interesting how even Anderson, who you don't even have to visit, gets more dialogue than the VS.

 

 

I try to imagine how it would go.
 
VS: Shepard`Where have you been the last two years, we mourned you, we even buried an empty casket because we couldn´t find a body. I stood at your Grave you stupid *please insert string of insults here.*
 
Shep: Well I was dead but I got better. 
 
VS: What? How? You disappeared for two years and all you have to tell me is some lame joke of an explanation. Go away.
 
The problem is, that no one knows it´s eve possible, I mean it should be impossible given the condition of Shep´s corpse. Even if they would believe you that you think you are Commander Shepard, the more likely explanation would be that Shep is a clone with some serious brainwashing.
I agree, it seems the whole Anderson scene wasn´t really well integrated into the storyline.

 

Well, this isn't about persuading them you were dead. Hell, Shepard herself doesn't believe she was dead because she says something along the lines of being in a coma or something. This is about Shepard suddenly acting like a total brick. You can see they just wanted to get that thing out of the way. Compare it with how Shepard reacts to Garrus where Shepard can happily spread her arms and be like, "GARRUUUS, WHACCHA DOING HEREEE?!" Or Tali where Shepard can immediately prove that it's her and gain Tali's trust by asking her about the geth data from ME1. Is it really so illogical that Shepard would express some happiness over seeing the VS and put some effort into that conversation, too? Especially when they're their LI? They get to hug, which is nice, but then Shepard just goes full retard. There are like, what, three lines you can give them.

 

Also, as I mentioned above, the VS leaves because they hate Cerberus and not because they're mad at Shepard. For some reason that means they can't stay and talk. I wonder why.

[Goodmongo]

I don't like him. I'm guessing you do since you mention his name
 

No one said you had to buy the game.
 

 

I picked Garrus because in polls him and Wrex were the most popular and he also appeared as a shipmate in the other two games.

 

Are you telling me that you hated Garrus, Liara, Tali, Wrex, Kaiden/Ashley. etc. and that not a single character from ME1 was likable?

 

And then you said you liked Mordin.  But why?  You statement was that you couldn't like characters that you couldn't ask questions.  Mordin had the exact same interface as all the others.  So clearly your statement wasn't accurate.

 

Clearly you can ask questions of every character.  So that can't be the reason.

 

So it must be that maybe you can't ask YOUR question or questions.  That means they can add way more but if they don't ask what you want it means you can't like the character.

 

And let's take it a step further.  Your question is asked but you HATE the answer.  Would that still allow you to like the character?  Or would you still say "no"?

 

It seems to me that you really want:

 

1) Ask the question(s) that you care about

2) Get the right answer.

 

Otherwise you can't like the character.  And if you can like the character then why did you say there is no reason to like the character?

 

I'm sorry to pick on you.  Honest I am.  I'm just trying to show that the real issue people have is not what they claim.  It goes much deeper.  In your case it's your question and your right answer.  Again I'm really sorry I'm singling you out.  That is NOT my intention.  I am using you to show and prove that most complaints are not thought out and it is because something didn't meet your personal requirements.  And that boils down to not being able to please everyone.  What you like, your tastes will be different from others.

[Goodmongo]

 
It has never been said here somebody's expecting to have 3165316133 questions on one dialogue wheel. That's something you came up with for some reason. But if you make a game where the protagonist dies, it's only logical it should be brought up throughout the game, not just in one hectic conversation at the very beginning. It's not rocket science.

 

Actually this is exactly what was being asked for.  Themikefest wanted to ask his/her specific questions.  We already can ask every character questions but clearly there are some questions that according to him/her are missing.  Now the next person may not care one bit what questions Themikefest wants.  they have their own set of questions and if not included they couldn't like the characters.  What you think should happen is what Bioware actually did, but clearly for Themikefest, and maybe you also, it was not good enough.

 

So either Bioware has to include lot's of other potential questions or have a way to ask them.  These are the only two options.

 

And as I pointed out in another post I bet the answer is also important.  It's not just asking the question.  If you don't get the answer you want you'll complain.  Maybe not you personally buy you meaning others who clearly want their outcomes.

 

 

Except that no. You barely get to say anything of value and that's simply bad writing. The mere fact that the VS tells you that they're there to investigate Cerberus and then leave without interrogating Shepard shows you how much thought the writers put into the conversation. I'm not saying Shepard should be able to magically fix the situation. In fact, I fully support the VS's decision. What I'm saying is that the conversation is written badly and its only purpose is to show you that the VS still exists, use them as a stupid plot device, and then dispose of them.

 

Your argument is absolutely invalid because the VS does not leave because they're mad at Shepard. They leave because they refuse to work for Cerberus. And, as I said, that's perfectly fine, but it's interesting how even Anderson, who you don't even have to visit, gets more dialogue than the VS.

 

 

 

Well, this isn't about persuading them you were dead. Hell, Shepard herself doesn't believe she was dead because she says something along the lines of being in a coma or something. This is about Shepard suddenly acting like a total brick. You can see they just wanted to get that thing out of the way. Compare it with how Shepard reacts to Garrus where Shepard can happily spread her arms and be like, "GARRUUUS, WHACCHA DOING HEREEE?!" Or Tali where Shepard can immediately prove that it's her and gain Tali's trust by asking her about the geth data from ME1. Is it really so illogical that Shepard would express happiness over seeing the VS, too? Especially when they're their LI? They get to hug, which is nice, but then Shepard just goes full retard. There are like, what, three lines you can give them.

 

Also, as I mentioned above, the VS leaves because they hate Cerberus and not because they're mad at Shepard. For some reason that means they can't stay and talk. I wonder why.

 

 

See the above shows my point exactly.  You want something very specific and if it deviates you'll be mad about it.  If the entire sequence played out with the exact same outcomes but included more dialogue you would still be mad.  It an OUTCOME that you want.

 

As for leaving there is this little battle and even if your drove off the collectors doesn't mean other people need immediate attention.  Not to mention they have their orders to follow.

 

I can add all kinds of story and dialogue but unless the OUTCOME is different you would still hate it.

[Vanilka]

Actually this is exactly what was being asked for.  Themikefest wanted to ask his/her specific questions.  We already can ask every character questions but clearly there are some questions that according to him/her are missing.  Now the next person may not care one bit what questions Themikefest wants.  they have their own set of questions and if not included they couldn't like the characters.  What you think should happen is what Bioware actually did, but clearly for Themikefest, and maybe you also, it was not good enough.
 
So either Bioware has to include lot's of other potential questions or have a way to ask them.  These are the only two options.
 
And as I pointed out in another post I bet the answer is also important.  It's not just asking the question.  If you don't get the answer you want you'll complain.  Maybe not you personally buy you meaning others who clearly want their outcomes.

 

Well, I guess I'll leave themikefest speak for themselves. However, just because somebody thinks that the available dialogue options could be expanded in some logical and relevant way in appropriate context does not mean they expect or want unlimited, super-personalised options. Themikefest gave some very good examples of that. Of course, BW can't think of absolutely everything, but I think the example with Shepard's death is good enough, too. As I said, what was the point of killing and then resurrecting Shepard if the game wasn't going to deal with it at all?
 
 

See the above shows my point exactly.  You want something very specific and if it deviates you'll be mad about it.  If the entire sequence played out with the exact same outcomes but included more dialogue you would still be mad.  It an OUTCOME that you want.
 
As for leaving there is this little battle and even if your drove off the collectors doesn't mean other people need immediate attention.  Not to mention they have their orders to follow.
 
I can add all kinds of story and dialogue but unless the OUTCOME is different you would still hate it.

 

Except it doesn't. You're very quick to force words into other people's mouths and draw all kinds of incorrect comparisons. Stop acting like you know what I want or feel or think. Because you very obviously do not. I'm not mad about the outcome. I'm not mad at all aside from being somewhat bothered by the fact that two of the most important characters from the first game got reduced to nothing but a stupid plot device to move the story forward and Shepard barely gets to talk to them at all. Not to even mention all the inconsistencies and the sheer shallowness of the exchange. I've said at least two times already that I wouldn't expect those particular characters to stay with Shepard and work for Cerberus. I don't know how to possibly make that clearer.

[themikefest]

Otherwise you can't like the character.  And if you can like the character then why did you say there is no reason to like the character?

It seems it bothers you that I would've like to of asked questions in the game. Why is that? Or is it that I don't like characters that you like? 

[Fixers0]

I don't think it's fair to state that SR1 crew actively abandonded Shepard cause, it was an unintended consquence of the two year time gap because of that stupid resurrection plot. I'm confident Bioware did not intent to have ME1 cast turn their back against shepard willingly, It's just that the plot can't move forward with Shepard. 

 

That said we don't really have an idea what they were up to anyway, Ash/Kaidan might very well have worked on a Reaper related project considering ME3 tells us the Alliance and Council were aware of the Reaper threat, they just didn't want to tell us because Cerberus.

[Goodmongo]

It seems it bothers you that I would've like to of asked questions in the game. Why is that? Or is it that I don't like characters that you like? 

 

No it doesn't.  I said I would like more story or background.  Since I don't know which characters you like and you don't know which ones I like that is not it.  your comment was all inclusive.  That you couldn't like any character unless you could ask them more questions.  I felt that was...excessive.

 

But a valid question remains.  Clearly you can ask question of each character but it seems not enough for you.  So I'm wondering how much would be enough?  Would one additional question work?  Would two?  What if they added 4 more questions but they weren't the questions you cared about.  Would that be good enough for you?

 

Now let me take it to the next step.  What if the questions you want asked were indeed asked but you really hated what answer Bioware gave.  Would that be OK then?  Would that be enough for you to care about the character?

[Dantriges]

Seems that Liara´s actions are nicely compartmentalized away in EU ...stuff.   Wikia said that she was so obsessed with the Reapers that it hurt her career. Yeah thanks BW...   Ok, at least we know that maidens aren´t really taken seriously in asari society from the main game. Interesting, the matriarchs had her dad bug her office but it seems they never took her opinion that the Reapers were coming seriously.

 

I thought that Wrex was doing all this unite krogans stuff also with the Reapers in mind but not sure if it´s mentioned somewhere.

 

Tali: Hm good question. but I am not surprised that she didn´t influence quarian politics much with them being focused on the geth. IIRC the quarians actually acknowledged the reaper threat but countered with "we need a place for the civilians before we go to battle."

Virmire Survivor: Junior officer or NCO in an organisation that participates in this Ah yes, "Reapers."

Garrus: Dropped the ball. Seems that he had connections to get some assets but never used them.

 

I am not surprised that none of them had managed to do much, considering their positions and the establishment keeping a lid on it.

[Goodmongo]

As I said, what was the point of killing and then resurrecting Shepard if the game wasn't going to deal with it at all?
 

 

But they did deal with it.  maybe not to the extent that you want (Outcome) but you can't say they did not deal with it at all.  Some aspects are pretty clear.  Shepard was Alliance military.  He finished his current mission.  Others went their own way and Shepard got new orders where he didn't need Wrex, Garrus etc.  Ashley/Kaiden are in the military and got their orders.  This is so common for anyone that's ever been in the military its second nature.  He's on a mission and dies.  he's dead as far as everyone knows.

 

Cerberus finds him and rebuilds him.  That was also explained in ME3.  TIM has his own special mission.  Basically all the backstory is there.  What are you specifically looking for?

 

Except it doesn't. You're very quick to force words into other people's mouths and draw all kinds of incorrect comparisons. Stop acting like you know what I want or feel or think. Because you very obviously do not.

 

 

Then tell us what you do want and feel.

 

 I'm not mad at all aside from being somewhat bothered by the fact that two of the most important characters from the first game got reduced to nothing but a stupid plot device to move the story forward and Shepard barely gets to talk to them at all. Not to even mention all the inconsistencies and the sheer shallowness of the exchange. I've said at least two times already that I wouldn't expect those particular characters to stay with Shepard and work for Cerberus. I don't know how to possibly make that clearer.

 

 

It's one character.  Ashley/Kaiden are really one character based on your sex.

 

So they don't stay.  But something is missing for you.  I don't want to put words into your mouth but outside of saying "stupid plot device" you don't go into any details as to why this is a stupid plot device.  

 

I'm curious.  You agree they don't stay.  What specifically is missing then?  What if the story went like this?

 

Ashley:  Shepard is that you?  Why the hell didn't you contact me.

Shep:  I've been dead and..

Ashley: (cutting Shepard off mid-sentence) You SOB  I hate you for not letting me know and now I find you're Cerberus.  Do you understand how this hurts me?

Shepard:  I was dead.  Cerberus rebuilt me.

Ashley:  Bullshit I don't believe you.  Get out of my face before I shoot you.  And take that fat ass'd Cerberus ****** with you.

Shepard:  Honestly, I love you.  I wanted to contact you.

Ashely:  Tell it to the hand.  And she leaves.

 

 

I thought that Wrex was doing all this unite krogans stuff also with the Reapers in mind but not sure if it´s mentioned somewhere.

 

 

 

It is in ME3.

 

EDIT:  How come they don't get into specifics on if the private parts were rebuilt.  Did the male Shepard get reaper sized?  This is a big plot hole.

[Vanilka]

But they did deal with it.  maybe not to the extent that you want (Outcome) but you can't say they did not deal with it at all.  Some aspects are pretty clear.  Shepard was Alliance military.  He finished his current mission.  Others went their own way and Shepard got new orders where he didn't need Wrex, Garrus etc.  Ashley/Kaiden are in the military and got their orders.  This is so common for anyone that's ever been in the military its second nature.  He's on a mission and dies.  he's dead as far as everyone knows.
 
Cerberus finds him and rebuilds him.  That was also explained in ME3.  TIM has his own special mission.  Basically all the backstory is there.  What are you specifically looking for?

What outcome again? We were talking about possible extra dialogues that would be cool to have in the game. The entire time. How the story begins was never in question. Yeah, Shepard dies, is resurrected, people move on. That was never the point. My point was, during this whole time, that Shepard never gets to talk about it or anything while some dialogues regarding this topic would be totally appropriate. You'd think somebody who died would think about it once in a while. 
 

Then tell us what you do want and feel.

 

I've been literally doing it the entire time I'm here. 
 

It's one character.  Ashley/Kaiden are really one character based on your sex.
 
So they don't stay.  But something is missing for you.  I don't want to put words into your mouth but outside of saying "stupid plot device" you don't go into any details as to why this is a stupid plot device.  
 
I'm curious.  You agree they don't stay.  What specifically is missing then?  What if the story went like this?
 
Ashley:  Shepard is that you?  Why the hell didn't you contact me.
Shep:  I've been dead and..
Ashley: (cutting Shepard off mid-sentence) You SOB  I hate you for not letting me know and now I find you're Cerberus.  Do you understand how this hurts me?
Shepard:  I was dead.  Cerberus rebuilt me.
Ashley:  Bullshit I don't believe you.  Get out of my face before I shoot you.  And take that fat ass'd Cerberus ****** with you.
Shepard:  Honestly, I love you.  I wanted to contact you.
Ashely:  Tell it to the hand.  And she leaves.

I have said, several times already, that their conversation has inconsistencies (They're supposed to investigate Cerberus, but leave when Shepard is there. Anderson never tells them about Shepard being alive and/or them being a Spectre and/or them working for Cerberus despite knowing this prior Horizon, despite the VS investigating Cerberus. Not to even mention that the Alliance sent like one person to deal with absolutely everything. Etc.), is shallow and not at all comparable to what other companions get (Garrus, Tali, Wrex, even Liara, you get to talk to them quite a lot, get investigate options to find out what they've been up to or at least something. Liara even gives you a mission. VS is the only one not to get this treatment. Even Anderson gets more dialogue than the VS.). Their only function and purpose in the story is to have Horizon attacked and then they're immediately disposed of, not to even mention that they're made to fail absolutely stupidly (Shooting at a swarm of insects when one of them has biotics, like really?) - so, yeah, they're nothing more than a plot device that got very little actual character time. Basically, they're reduced to damsels in distress that you can't even properly talk to afterwards. Shepard gets few lines of dialogue to give them and those barely even try to explain anything or treat them like the friends/lovers they are to Shepard. That they leave is perfectly fine, they're very loyal to the Alliance and I respect and approve of their decision, as I have stated over four times already.

Why do I have to repeat myself so many times?

And what do you even mean with "What if the story went like this?" How is your version of the dialogue relevant to anything? Well, I know one thing, it's not how I would talk to Ashley and the conversation you have just written is a horrible mischaracterisation of her.

[Goodmongo]

I have said, several times already, that their conversation has inconsistencies (They're supposed to investigate Cerberus, but leave when Shepard is there. 

 

They have a conversation.  They need to investigate Cerberus but that doesn't mean Shepard's group.  It's a big planet.  There are other places to go check on.  Ashley leaves because she's mad at Shepard.  He offers for her to join she says "no go F yourself".  That's why she left.  They have things to do.  There might be more collectors around.  It's not time for a long pow-wow.

 

 Anderson never tells them about Shepard being alive and/or them being a Spectre and/or them working for Cerberus despite knowing this prior Horizon, despite the VS investigating Cerberus. Not to even mention that the Alliance sent like one person to deal with absolutely everything. Etc.),

 

First, they knew he was a spectre because that was ME1.  It was on all the vids and even James saw it.  Second, the alliance didn't send one person.  It wasn't just Ashley that was there.  Besides this is a freakin game and bodies are not numerous.  Towns don't have 8 people in them but games represent towns that way.  So should they have had a full platoon of 30 guys?  This isn't being realistic.  And maybe there were other squads at other settlements on the planet.  You don't know that.

 

Iis shallow and not at all comparable to what other companions get (Garrus, Tali, Wrex, even Liara, you get to talk to them quite a lot, get investigate options to find out what they've been up to or at least something. Liara even gives you a mission. VS is the only one not to get this treatment. 

 

VS is pissed at you.  Can't you understand that.  VS feels betrayed and doesn't want to see you face.  VS would love to kill you.  VS is not going to listen to reason or logic.  You are no longer Alliance and VS (especially Ashley) is hardcore Alliance.  Now add in that they were probably a LI and it makes it even more likely they leave you.  Ever been in a relationship that went bad?  Millions have and some breakups are not nice.  Often the two sides won't even ****** on the other even if they were on fire.  This reaction is 100% plausible and legit.

 

Well, I know one thing, it's not how I would talk to Ashley and the conversation you have just written is a horrible mischaracterisation of her.

 

That's you.  As I said it's based on your taste.  Maybe some other Shepard/Ashley combo would rather them shoot at each other or punch them out.  Just as valid as your wants.  So my little exchange is completely plausible and completely valid.

 

See you can decide how Shepard reacts but NOT Ashley.  In my conversation Shepard tries to explain but Ashley wants nothing to do with it.  Just because your Shepard is all lovie-dovie and paragaon doesn't mean Ashley has to respond how you want her to.  That was Bioware's choice not yours.

[Vanilka]

They have a conversation.  They need to investigate Cerberus but that doesn't mean Shepard's group.  It's a big planet.  There are other places to go check on.  Ashley leaves because she's mad at Shepard.  He offers for her to join she says "no go F yourself".  That's why she left.  They have things to do.  There might be more collectors around.  It's not time for a long pow-wow.

 
Shepard's group is Cerberus. That means Cerberus has arrived. That means the focus of the investigation is there. Where else would they be going when they have the biggest source of info right there?

Ashley leaves because, as she says, "I want to believe you, Shepard, but I don't trust Cerberus." Kaidan tells you pretty much the same thing and also to "Take care, Shepard." Yeah, I can totally see how they want to rip Shepard apart. Sure, they're not happy, but they're absolutely nowhere near as freaking hysterical as you describe them.
 

First, they knew he was a spectre because that was ME1.  It was on all the vids and even James saw it.  Second, the alliance didn't send one person.  It wasn't just Ashley that was there.  Besides this is a freakin game and bodies are not numerous.  Towns don't have 8 people in them but games represent towns that way.  So should they have had a full platoon of 30 guys?  This isn't being realistic.  And maybe there were other squads at other settlements on the planet.  You don't know that.

 
Wrong. Shepard had to have their Spectre status reinstated in ME2. Sure, they were a Spectre in ME1, but unless you see the councillor in ME2 and agree with getting the status back, you're not a Spectre in ME2. Whether you accept or not, the councillor sees Shepard alive and knows they're with Cerberus, and thus can share this information with the VS who investigates Cerberus, which would be logical... except that the councillor fails to do that.

"This is a freaking game," is not an excuse. When you resort to this kind of excuse, it means you have no proper arguments to give. The fact is we only see the VS and they only ever talk about the VS. We don't even see one more marine anywhere just for the atmosphere. And, yeah, when the colonies start to go missing, I fully expect them to send more than one person or at least make it look so. If one single visible person to protect the whole colony is realistic to you, but thirty isn't, then I don't know what to tell you.
 

VS is pissed at you.  Can't you understand that.  VS feels betrayed and doesn't want to see you face.  VS would love to kill you.  VS is not going to listen to reason or logic.  You are no longer Alliance and VS (especially Ashley) is hardcore Alliance.  Now add in that they were probably a LI and it makes it even more likely they leave you.  Ever been in a relationship that went bad?  Millions have and some breakups are not nice.  Often the two sides won't even ****** on the other even if they were on fire.  This reaction is 100% plausible and legit.

 
Have you actually listened to the damn conversation or are you okay with making everything up like that? Yeah, the VS gets hurt and upset, especially when you mention Cerberus, but they sure as hell wouldn't hurt Shepard. There are no threats, no swearing, no I-hate-yous, no yelling, no nothing. They pour out their heart, quite understandably, and eventually leave because they want to have nothing to do with Cerberus, quite understandably. Which is what I've keept saying the whole damn time. I don't know where you get your ideas from. I don't even...

And I sincerely still don't understand what you are freaking getting at. Do I have to repeat for the 150th time that I am perfectly okay with them leaving and that I respect their feelings and decision? Which part of it do you still not understand? Do I need to draw a picture for you? Something nice and colourful that explains that I just have a problem with the fact that they are neglected as characters, and totally NOT with the fact that I don't get to knock them down into that grass and do some steamy-romancey stuff with them or something... How do I get that information through? I seriously don't know any more.

And, no, while I have had my share of bullshit, I've never been in a relationship where we'd want to physically harm each other. Do you even realise what you're saying? Do you even realise how sick that is? Like hell Ashley or Kaidan would do something so low and I'd rather not think about the implications you're giving out right now.
 

That's you.  As I said it's based on your taste.  Maybe some other Shepard/Ashley combo would rather them shoot at each other or punch them out.  Just as valid as your wants.  So my little exchange is completely plausible and completely valid.
 
See you can decide how Shepard reacts but NOT Ashley.  In my conversation Shepard tries to explain but Ashley wants nothing to do with it.  Just because your Shepard is all lovie-dovie and paragaon doesn't mean Ashley has to respond how you want her to.  That was Bioware's choice not yours.

 
Except that Ashley is an established character that's never behaved in the way you describe. You've just said that I cannot decide how Ashley reacts, but then you grossly mischaracterise her. And there you go with putting words in my mouth again.

You obviously understand absolutely nothing of what I have said, nor you are trying, even though I have gone out of my way to describe it, and I am done here. I'm sincerely tired of you constantly accusing me of stuff I have never said.

[olnorton]

Yes.
If I could have asked a question of Samara, it would be.
These bloody barriers were your idea, why the hell didn't you throw one up when you could see Miranda tiring?
PLOT REASONS! Don't give me plot reasons, you hung Garrus out to dry & now I have no one to hold the line.

[Vanilka]

Yes.
If I could have asked a question of Samara, it would be.
These bloody barriers were your idea, why the hell didn't you throw one up when you could see Miranda tiring?
PLOT REASONS! Don't give me plot reasons, you hung Garrus out to dry & now I have no one to hold the line.

 

I would love it if the game accounted for it. I often take two biotics with me because it just makes sense. It would be cool if they could just switch in case one of them got tired. (Not to even mention the scenario where Shepard is a biotic.)

[Linkenski]

http://www.gameranx....-mass-effect-3/

I was skeptical reading through the first half of the dialogue, but it was actually really good. Dang, that's definitely what Ashley needed in ME3 after her return to the Normandy. As it is, her characterization is completely broken. She has one scene where she gets drunk and it's just silly and then the romance scenes where I just don't feel the connection like I did in ME1. The "O Captain, my captain" stuff did always feel slightly awkward but also had a lot of charm to it and it was memorable. In ME3 her romance was just like this forced back and forth and it didn't feel like Ashley to me.

[afgncaap7]

Hm...

ME1
1. The fact that I can't ​transfer any of the sidequests from this snorefest without actually playing it.
2. It's just dull and boring compared to the others. I'm frankly glad that ME2 was my first.
3. Mako.

ME2
1. The character interaction and dialogue is excellent......as long as they're talking to Shepard. Outside of missions, it's as if your squadmates aren't even aware that the others exist. When Garrus was tallking about Thane in the citadel DLC, all I could think was "YOU LITERALLY NEVER SPOKE TO HIM ONCE!"
2. Having to complete ​​​​a squadmates loyalty mission just to unlock all of their powers.
3. ​Hammerhead.

ME3
1. Shepard has potentially lost any combination of family, friends and comrades.........yet he's haunted by some random kid he doesn't even know? Shepard sees death every day and I'm supposed to believe that kid has a bigger effect on him than being forced to pick someone on Virmire or losing his entire team on Akuze?
2. ​There is a very real chance that you will catch up to the fembot on Mars and completely pwn her.........but oh, plot armor.
3. ​Javik is a living prothean. One of the most important bits of lore in the entire trilogy...AND HE'S DLC! CHA-CHING!!!
​4. Could've easily fit the ME2 squadmate theme songs in multiple points in the game and didn't.
5. Nyreen from the omega DLC. Perfectly good character that could've easily become a permanent squadma-AAAAAND SHE'S GONE​!
6 The geth never once even attempted to open communications with the Quarians and reach an understanding, yet I'm suppose to believe they're completely innocent of any wrongdoing? The quarians are no saints, but the geth are just as guilty of causing their own problems.
7. Legion is "dead" even though he's a software being that can copy or store his "essence" on a separate platform to be reformed later. His entire death sequence is just forced drama.​
8. The final obstacle in the trilogy is a mook.

Kai Leng
1. Anime reject.
2. Thane has him​​ dead to rights - doesn't squeeze the trigger.
3. Shepard and his badass team are perfectly content to just sit and watch their half-dead "friend" fight and don't even bother to help.
4. The ****** is barely able to kill a deathly-ill drell and thinks he can gloat about it.
5. Corners himself in an elevator and my soldier Shep decides to glare menacingly with a pistol​​ rather than activate adrenaline rush, toss in a few grenades and unload with my revenant.
6. Is able to "beat" Shepard on thessia because we're suddenly helpless against a random gunship despite the dozen we swatted out of the sky in ME2.
7. Literally the only reason he's a threat is because the script says so.​ ​

[von uber]

Gee Gandalf why couldn't you just call the Eagles and fly Frodo to Mount Doom?  Wouldn't that be easier and faster?

 

The Eagles were messengers of Manwe, and like Gandalf, forbidden to use their power to directly intervene in that sense. This was a problem for the existing races to fix. Gandalf himself didn't trust himself with the ring, and you really think Sauron wouldn't have noticed a massive Eagle flying right into the heart of his realm? You do realise that that was the whole point was secrecy, hence the acts of Aragorn to keep and hold his attention, lulling Sauron into thinking that he had claimed the ring for his own?

You see, Tolkein actually explained this - I really wish you'd stop using it as an example, it does you no favours whatsoever.

[Monica21]

The Eagles were messengers of Manwe, and like Gandalf, forbidden to use their power to directly intervene in that sense. This was a problem for the existing races to fix. Gandalf himself didn't trust himself with the ring, and you really think Sauron wouldn't have noticed a massive Eagle flying right into the heart of his realm? You do realise that that was the whole point was secrecy, hence the acts of Aragorn to keep and hold his attention, lulling Sauron into thinking that he had claimed the ring for his own?

You see, Tolkein actually explained this - I really wish you'd stop using it as an example, it does you no favours whatsoever.

 

Stephen Colbert would be proud of this.

[Dantriges]

The Eagles were messengers of Manwe, and like Gandalf, forbidden to use their power to directly intervene in that sense.

 

Pretty sure, the retort will be, that them being servants of Manwe isn´t mentioned n the books and who is this Manwe fellow anyways. Doesn´t matter anyways, Sauron had air forces with the Nazgul and it´s no a real stretch to assume that the lidless eye keeping unsleeping vigilance is pretty good at spotting things like giant eagles flying over his own country.

I think that the Eagles (taking the Silmarillion into account) would have been really noticeable, considering that an elf appears luminous in this spirit realm and well Sauron fled the fall of Numenor in spirit shape and Barad Dur is not really far away from Mount Doom. "Surprise," said the Dark Lord, I am already here and thanks for dropping the ring in my hand."

[Wintersonne123]

The endings, obviously, Starbrat, but all of that has been explained before. Also, every scene where it feels like Liara is supposed to be the LI. Became especially terrible when I played my celibate Shep. No, Liara, just because he's not with anyone doesn't mean he's waiting for you.

 

I also have to admit that I never got the burning love that people have for the Citadel DLC. There was some fun stuff in there, sure enough. I did like the party for seeing the squad interact, fighting alone after falling through the fish tank, the part where you go to that gala thing, and for once having everyone together for a fight was great. But by the end of it, the one-liners and jokes were starting to waver between enjoyably cheesy and massively cringeworthy for me. At the very least, Citadel DLC made me realise I simply enjoy that sort of meta stuff more when its cleverly interspersed than when I get it in a huge chunk just sort of thrown in front of my feet, so... yeah, at least it taught me something about my taste. When fan-service becomes this blatant, I do wonder why I'm not actually reading fanfiction, then. But of course, as I have been informed before, this just means I hate fun.