49 réponses à ce sujet

[Cryos_Feron]

I have barely completed 70 Perilous matches and just a handful promotions compared to some of you.

 

But those promotions are ... MINE 

 

There has been many moments when the dragon just gave me crap but I said to myself,

"At least you gained 2 levels"

 

Maybe this feeling is similar to the one you had when you got a weapon you HATED in ME3

and said to yourself "at least this fucker will never come again".

 

Taking that away would make all of that worthless.

 

 

Basically I share the general opinion about the negative impact promotions have on the game.

But since it is the only real progression there is and has cost A LOT of hours - you should think this through before you

all request a new difficulty that takes that all away.

 

 

[Thadrial]

I highly doubt they do anything that affects promotions at this point seeing as the large portion of their playerbase are people with at least 50 promotions and even that takes a while. It's the only accomplishment we get and it's not too hard for them to just make a harder difficulty that will require more strategic play. Especially with all of these hints at new enemy units or skills that dispel barrier and such.

[Da_Noobinator]

I highly doubt Bioware will add in a new difficulty in which the main difference over Perilous is that additional stats gained from promotions are nullified. Many players (in fact, I would argue most players) don't have many promotions, and thus the difference would be negligible.

If nullifying promotions was on Bioware's radar, it would make more sense to have it set as a toggle in the lobby settings for all difficulties than to have it permanently set for a specific difficulty.

I'd argue friendly fire should be the same (that is, an optional method of increasing difficulty for all difficulty settings).

 

@Thadriel

I wrote up the above before reading your comment. Bear in mind that most people who play DAMP don't post on here, and are casuals. Before I visited these forums, the concept of anyone having more than 20 promotions in a certain stat was ridiculous to me.

[SpaceV3gan]

Promotions were the only sense of progression in this game before the loot system was (temporarily) fixed. Promotions are why this game has survived 7 months and was never (fully) abandoned during the dark days of December, January, February and March. This game has a hardcore playerbase at all because people have been able to keep promoting and seek progression via promotions.
Promotions can not possibly be taken away. Besides, who are the players who have game-breaking quatity of promotions? 0.5% of the playerbase? These are people who have invested over 1k hours in this game. Why wouldn't they have the right to be rewarded for their dedication?

[ALTBOULI]

Promotions were the only sense of progression in this game before the loot system was (temporarily) fixed. Promotions are why this game has survived 7 monthsand was never (fully) abandoned during the dark days of December, January, February and March. This game has a hardcore playerbase at all because people have been able to keep promoting and seek progression via promotions.
Promotions can not possibly be taken away. Besides, who are the players who have game-breaking quatity of promotions? 0.5% of the playerbase? These are people who have invested over 1k hours in this game. Why wouldn't they have the right to be rewarded for their dedication?

I dont agree with the bits in bold, I dont promote and play this game still because I enjoy playing around with different builds. I know a number of players who are the same. I dont think Bioware should take away promotions but having a game type or difficulty were promotions isnt a factor would be nice imo

[Dieb]

Yeah, I don't see the harm in it, honestly.

 

Why would you feel compelled to play a mode of which the sole purpose is what you don't want? Why you would need a new difficulty when you evidently still find Perilous challenging enough?

 

Lots of players a attempting (and succeeding) starting weapon or low level runs, so all that would be is another, very optional, mutator to artifically increase the difficulty for those at that point. I'm far from being one of them, so I'm talking out of my arse here of course.

 

I mean, new stuff is always good, but the debate is revolving around giving burnt out players something to do, isn't it? Unless you rather meant a new game mode.

[Cryos_Feron]

.
Why you would need a new difficulty when you evidently still find Perilous challenging enough?
.

depends on my character. with the Elementalist Perilous has become quite easy.
with other characters I am dying frequently though.

[SpaceV3gan]

I dont agree with the bits in bold, I dont promote and play this game still because I enjoy playing around with different builds. I know a number of players who are the same. I dont think Bioware should take away promotions but having a game type or difficulty were promotions isnt a factor would be nice imo

A difficult level that denies the effect of promotions would discourage people from promoting altogether. Playing as level 20 denies the XP reward entirely. What would be the reward over time from playing such a thing? Unobtainable Loot? Banner grinding? Skill building? How can Bioware keep the game alive for another 7 months without a sense of progression other than promotions?

[ALTBOULI]

A difficult level that denies the effect of promotions would discourage people from promoting altogether. Playing as level 20 denies the XP reward entirely. What would be the reward over time from playing such a thing? Unobtainable Loot? Banner grinding? Skill building? How can Bioware keep the game alive for another 7 months without a sense of progression other than promotions?

possibly some type of hoarde mode that gives the player a chance to earn new loot or banners, I dont think this would discourage players to promote. Lets say such a game type could give the player new schematics which would in turn potentially improve their existing equipment. You could even factor in things like unique armour (which could be purely cosmetic). As someone has eluded to, I dont think the average player has that many promotions and I dont think promotions is what's keeping people playing

[Sulaco_7]

Soft caps: you still get more powerful but not as much at high levels.

[Shevy]

Soft and hard caps for promotions would be very helpful in designing a new difficulty and for general balancing.

 

I think there should be a mechanism to ensure playing at level 20 is more than wasted time. Maybe add an extra EP bar after reaching level 20 which fills up with a 50% malus. Once the bar is full, you can either promote and use the surplus EP to gain levels or stay at 20 and waste time. This would give level 20 a meaning and avoids level 1 in threatening/peri.

[Spin-Orbit]

I also feel taking away promotions or watering them down with a difficulty that negates them would be wrong. In another post sonofbarak asked how many BSNers are on the leader list. This would indicate the percentage of highly promoted players represented on the forum. There was not many a few on PC, a few on Xbox. I know couple from PS3 as I am one. This represents a very small minority of players with promotions, seems odd that they would like to set the terms of how the promoted stats should work on the game.

[yarpenthemad21]

possibly some type of hoarde mode that gives the player a chance to earn new loot or banners, I dont think this would discourage players to promote. Lets say such a game type could give the player new schematics which would in turn potentially improve their existing equipment. You could even factor in things like unique armour (which could be purely cosmetic). As someone has eluded to, I dont think the average player has that many promotions and I dont think promotions is what's keeping people playing

Lets say we have something new in which promotions does not work.
Gear still works, so new players as always are screwed. New content is either balance for high end player with high end gear or for everyone, either way it's either too hard for majority of players or too easy for top players. You can't have both.
Main reward is some sort of unique something. Whatever really. Depending on how much time you need to get everything it's either dragon hunt scenario (so top players got everything in maybe 2 weeks max) or never ending grind.
First scenario will cause that ppl would just abandon new content after some time.
Second cause that ppl abandon vanilla content. What's the point of getting promotions if you play mostly on "non-promotions" content, so everyone would just play as 20 levels hunting for some "reward". It could also make a backlash for ppl with high promotion, as they could feel like all this "getting" power is just wasted.
Nobody likes when somebody takes away from you your progress.

Solution?
Horde/castle defense mode. With settings, scaling and maybe unlimited waves version. Something to set on test top players and something fun and rewarding for everyone else.

[MeatShieldGaz]

I still want to see a weekend challenge where you have to get x amount of kills using the starter inquisition weapons 

[Theghostof_timmy]

I have barely completed 70 Perilous matches and just a handful promotions compared to some of you.

 

But those promotions are ... MINE 

 

There has been many moments when the dragon just gave me crap but I said to myself,

"At least you gained 2 levels"

 

Maybe this feeling is similar to the one you had when you got a weapon you HATED in ME3

and said to yourself "at least this fucker will never come again".

 

Taking that away would make all of that worthless.

 

 

Basically I share the general opinion about the negative impact promotions have on the game.

But since it is the only real progression there is and has cost A LOT of hours - you should think this through before you

all request a new difficulty that takes that all away.

I'm looking at you graal spike thrower!

[daima17]

The more stuffs they release for MP, the easier it will get. More and more people can play perilous carried by the weapons of the dragon alone now, myself included. And with no or few promotes.

 

If they add a new difficulty, it should make the game challenging for a team that is coordinate. Atm you can win without communication between players. In perilous, it's not to the point of routine or threatening in PUG where everybody charge forward to make more kills. Well except the AW and people with lots of promotes ... because they can.

[CMDR FACE]

ME3 had all factions of enemies showing up on higher difficulties.  DAI could do this.  Dragon fight w/ faction boss would be rough too.

 

In addition to higher health, obviously.  More enemies too I guess.

 

Heck...have Arcane Horrors & Revenants show up on the regular boards just wandering about.

 

 

Or they could just add a Druffolo faction. 

[Sulaco_7]

The problem with promotions is that it creates a huge range of player levels.  Yes, maybe you can say that only < 10% of the player base has "godly" stats.

 

But will Bioware create a difficulty level specifically for these 10% hardcore player base.  Will you need a minimum of 100/100/100 stats just to survive the first wave?   

 

Other concern is that each higher difficulty dishes out 2-3x XP from the previous difficulty.  Will the new platinum difficulty give out 120-180k xp now?  You can more or less level up from 1-20 in a single match then.  Seems to me this would just allow hardcore farmers to promote that much faster outpacing any new difficulty in a short amount of time.

[Laforgus]

And what if is Optional?

 

We have the same difficulty we have now, and there will be that mode where promotions's stats doesn't matter. Those who don't like it just don't have to look there, and those who like it pick friends or jump in alone.

 

Like Diablo's Hardcore Mode, no one complains for the mode to be there and no one is forced to play it. It wouldn't be a problem if is done like that. 

[Wavebend]

A new difficulty strictly relying on buffing enemies stats (strength, hp) doesn't make much sense.

 

The gap between threatening and perilous can be described as enemies dealing 3x as much damage in perilous, in comparison to threatening. A similar jump from perilous to a new difficulty would require enemies to deal 9x as much damage in comparison to threatening. This kind of difficulty would only be accessible for <0.5% of the playerbase.

 

An easier way would be to introduce a difficulty similar to perilous that ignores your promotions. The end result is exactly the same, but the difficulty would be accessible to everyone.

 

Tbh, I'd prefer an endless horde mode.

[sonofbarak]

Where are you getting this 0.5% of the player base, when the majority of players who post here are casual players lol

 

I think Bio ware knows how what the true player base is and not these made up numbers lol:)

[ParthianShotX]

 

Tbh, I'd prefer an endless horde mode.

 

Sign me up for that too.  Not as shameful going down when you know before you start that death is inevitable.

[Sulaco_7]

Sign me up for that too.  Not as shameful going down when you know before you start that death is inevitable.

 

Signed!  Horde mode is the best option - is accessible to all player levels and you don't need to cap promotions either.

 

Please Luke.

[Texasmotiv]

I agree with the OP. given that once you have all the items there is no long term goal beyond promoting. Sure there are short term goals of beating this one game, or beating the next game but there is nothing to work for. I understand that some can play "just for the fun of it" or for "the challenge".

 

At base, all games are task/reward systems. You are given a task then given a reward for completing the task. If the reward is to little, you grow bored beyond the entertainment of simply performing the task repeatedly. If the task is too simple and the reward to great, it cheapens the reward and causes you to grow bored with performing the task as you have no sense of accomplishment. Its a fine line. You have to continue to dangle the carrot in front of the player giving them a constant set of new tasks and suitable rewards for completing the tasks.

 

World of Warcraft is a perfect case study of this Carrot-on-a-stick reward method. You play to level up, when you level up to the cap, you incrementally get better gear to complete more content to get better gear, to use that new gear to complete yet more content, and the cycle continues. Blizzard makes the content hard enough for the ladder climb to take time and by the time you get to the top of the ladder they introduce a new ladder. 5 or 10 more levels and a new set of dungeons and gear to chase.

 

DAMP suffers from the fact that there is a loot ladder that caps early, and a level ladder that never ends. If you can keep climbing the infinite ladder but if you stop getting rewarded eventually you lose motivation and you just jump off the ladder. There needs to be a balance. And there needs to be more content to give you more to do than just endlessly chase promotions.

 

That all said, If you remove any reward, you take away the carrot and with it any motivation to keep playing. If you introduce a mode to remove the promotion stats, it is just going to replicate the game experience of playing perilous when you first started playing the game, which the players have already experienced. After the novelty wears of, whats the point? Not to mention the backwards nature of playing a new mode to gain experience that doesn't really realistically do anything for you in this new mode. Just doesn't make sense. Its like selling your hair to buy a hairbrush.

[Piffle]

I really don't want to write a novel but I will try to explain the best I can.

 

It would be awesome to have new modes, new factions, new maps, but they all require new assets and fall into new DLC territory.

 

When you are adding a new difficulty, you are just adding one more permutation of enemy numbers to the existing ones, i.e. on the existing maps, instead of routine, threatening, perilous, you would now have routine, threatening, perilous, [super perilous]. This is a lot more easier to implement than asking for NEW things (which I love and want, please give us new DLC soon Bioware  )

 

It's a lot of work to program new AI behaviour; normally, to make things harder in higher difficulty settings, enemies are just given higher stats and come in greater numbers. This happens all the time in RPGs. You go to a new harder area, you get to fight recoloured enemies that behave the same but have beefed up health and attack.

 

Of course, RPGS have level caps so that its easier to balance. There is no "level cap" to DAIMP promotions. I believe Wavebend pointed out that it only takes 100+ promotions per stat to make perilous the equivalent of threatening to a player with little to no promotions.

 

To up the difficulty, so that even players with 100+ promotions will find it challenging, enemies need to have a lot more health and damage. This would mean you will have to be high promoted to enter the new difficulty. For those who aren't, you will be tickling enemies with pea shooters while you die in one shot to their attacks  And in time, as people promote higher, the difficulty is once again lost as people approach 200+

 

I personally think there's a better way to add challenge. Instead of scaling enemy stats to the players in the new difficulty, scale the players' stats to the enemies by removing the effects of promotions. Benefits are:

 

- This difficulty is always relevant. It will always be hard, it never gets easier, no matter how many times a player promotes.

 

- This difficulty is fair. you don't need to promote a huge amount to play, but veterans will still have an advantage with their end game gear and their familiarity with the game mechanics.

 

- There have been several threads debating on how promotions negate the necessity of skill. This difficulty would take the promotions out of the equation and allow these people to compare their "strate skils"

 

Nothing else changes. you can still promote to your hearts' content, and the benefits of your promotions still work on the other difficulties. You should still get experience and gold in an amount befitting a new higher difficulty. For people who ask why bother still promoting: from what I understand, people who play the much vaunted ME3MP are incentivized to increase their prestige and it doesn't affect their stats, but the game is still hugely popular.

 

This suggestion isn't a complaint on promotions. I'm not trying to gimp people with high promotions or trying to break onto the leaderboards or whatever other things that some people think I'm trying to do. I just want the new difficulty to be challenging but still accessible to the majority of the players.

 

TLDR - Removing the effects of promotions for the new difficulty isn't as wrong as you think