349 réponses à ce sujet

[URMASTER08]

I think the combat system is 10x better then ME1, sure there could be some more depth to the inventory system but over all I actually enjoy the battles now to where in ME1 I just wanted to get through it to continue the story. Best Game ive bought in yrs!

[Graunt]

Typifire wrote...

Graunt wrote...

Typifire wrote...

I can't belive they did this to what was until now my favorite RPG.  There is little in this game that could even be considered an RPG anymore.

And I don't want to get into a battle of semantics regarding the definition of RPG.  I know that strictly speaking this game involes playing a role.  But in a world full of first/third person shooters with RPG elelements, why do we need another? 

This is the biggest disappointment I've yet to come across in gaming.  No Inventory!!!  Seriosuly?!!  Even Dead Space has an inventory. 

What we have now is the same game mechanoics as Gears of War, but with some extra powers, companions and the ability to control dialogue.  That's it!!

There are no visiible weapon and armor statistics.  There will be no more filtering down old gear to other companions.  There are no weapon mods.  For every good change there is  bad change that does far more damage than the good change implemented.

For christ's sake, I could head shot every mech in the tutorial level, and switched to a grendae launcher for the heavy mech!!!  This is not the game I paid to play.  And I will not support this game title in the future.  I will likely return this immediately, in fact.

I guess now I'll get back to Dragon Age.

Because the combat from the first game was soooo great right?    I'm not huge shooter fan, but the direction they went with the combat is vastly superior to the original.  You want "roleplaying?"  Then try playing the role of someone who can actually shoot a gun instead of having the computer do it for you.  Combat was one of the most annoying things from the first game and for the most part you were doing it solo while carrying around two utility knives that would shoot boxes, each other as well as destroying the Mako.

Once again, a matter of opinion. 

But thanks for assuming your opinion is right and mine is wrong, and adding nothing to the discussion.

Thank you, also, for ignoring any of the posts where I stated that I play shooters on a regular basis, and have since Wolfenstein 3D, and thus this complaint is not based on the fact that I don't like the genre.  Or can't play the genre, which seems to get pulled out as a red herring any time this type of discussion takes place.

Also, if you notice I said one of the things I didn't like was being able to get head shots over and over again.  If I had trouble aiming, I don't think this would be one of my complaints.

Before Dragon Age and ME 2 the last 7 games I played were shooters.  I simply didn't want that kind of gameplay from ME 2.

Funny how you get hostile that I do not agree with your opinion, which shows just how right you think your opinion is over anyone elses.

Here's a fact for you though; the combat is vastly improved over the original in just about every way.  Sure, they could have done it a little differently somehow, but it's still a hell of a lot better than in the first game which was just awful.  And if you did not want "shooter gameplay" from a game that is well publicized as an RPG-Shooter you only have yourself to blame.

Modifié par Graunt, 29 janvier 2010 - 05:22 .

[Typifire]

Deleted - Double Post

Modifié par Typifire, 29 janvier 2010 - 05:30 .

[Typifire]

Graunt wrote...

Funny how you get hostile that I do not agree with your opinion, which shows just how right you think your opinion is over anyone elses.

Here's a fact for you though; the combat is vastly improved over the original in just about every way.  Sure, they could have done it a little differently somehow, but it's still a hell of a lot better than in the first game which was just awful.

 I wasn't being hostile at all.  It's called sarcasm.  Some people use it as humor.  I think my opinion is right for me.  I'm not forcing it on you. 

The difference is, I know that my opinion is just an opinion.  And I'm not trying to state it as a fact you have to accept.  Which you continue to do.

Modifié par Typifire, 29 janvier 2010 - 05:48 .

[newcomplex]

Cuz Mass Effect 1 was such a balanced and well designed RPG. I mean, your weapons had so many stats meaning upgrading was always a dynamic decision, not just looking at which rifle had the biggest damage bar, and it was completely tactical, not run into room with immunity and tank shotgun, and you had so many different ways you can build your character.....

The Mass Effect series is an Action-RPG, as opposed to a turn based rpg.    The Witcher only had 6 swords, and 3 are blatantly useless, and features Hack and Slash gameplay.    Are you going to argue that its "God of War with dialogue"?    

Your points are completely absurd.   

If Mass Effect 1 played like Dragon Age, you'd have a point.   Except Mass Effect 1 played with the same underlying mechanics, that were undermined by a retarded inventory system, and required no choice on the players behalf (Every gun class has 35 guns, all 35 guns are the exactly the same, down to firing rate, with different damage values) that was heavily critisized and the fact that immunity made you immune to damage.    Literally.   

Terror_K wrote...

If BioWare had intended for the original
Mass Effect to be like ME2 is they would have gone for the simpler and
less stats-heavy shooter oriented gameplay in the first place instead of
giving us a system where we have to level-up our stats to determine our
ability to shoot. If they had intended it they wouldn't have gone with a
more complex system rather than a simple twitch-based TPS one, and they
would have had an ammo system from the start.

No... BioWare did
NOT intend for this to be the way ME was in the first place. They've
changed their intentions for the series because too many players were
put off by the fact it didn't play like a proper third person shooter in
the first place.

Ironically it's the old RPG fans who get called
whiners for complaining about the changes rather than the Shooter
Fanatics that whined about the way it was in the first place now that
they've been placated.

Why would they implemented 47
custom animations for cover when cover literally is not usable in all
modes except hardcore, and in no modes after you recieve immunity?

Use your ****ing head.

Now, If they made Dragon Age 2 a hack and slash game, I'd never buy a bioware game ever again.    All they did is provide a more refined version of the heavily unbalanced and bug ridden ME1 combat and inventory management system, without diluting, but refining the core values that made ME awesome, as in exploration, character development, plot development, and a massive world.   In ME1, everything felt stactic, in ME2, cities feel alive.


The ME inventory system can be replicated perfectly by whenever you are able to afford a upgrade via the upgrade terminal for a gun class, add a "I" numeral at the end of all weapons in that class with your imagination.

BAM.   Perfect recreation of ME1 inventory system.

You people act as if ME1 was the pinacle of "hard" rpg development.   No, from a puristic RPG standpoint, ME was utter ****.   Not only that, but when it came out, most Bioware purists hated it.    Removed dynamic incredients for a retarded, casual catering omni-gel.    Lack of character customization.   Lack of squad customization.   Lack of item variety.   The same arguments you people are levying now.

I'm sorry, but ME is never designed to be a puristic turn based stat oriented RPG.   Go play Dragon Age.   

Modifié par newcomplex, 29 janvier 2010 - 05:38 .

[Originalshb]

newcomplex wrote...

Cuz Mass Effect 1 was such a balanced and well designed RPG. I mean, your weapons had so many stats meaning upgrading was always a dynamic decision, not just looking at which rifle had the biggest damage bar, and it was completely tactical, not run into room with immunity and tank shotgun, and you had so many different ways you can build your character.....

The Mass Effect series is an Action-RPG, as opposed to a turn based rpg.    The Witcher only had 6 swords, and 3 are blatantly useless, and features Hack and Slash gameplay.    Are you going to argue that its "God of War with dialogue"?    

Your points are completely absurd.   

WIN! 

[Typifire]

Okay. Let's put this heavily criticzed issue to rest right now. From Mass Effect reviews:

http://pc.ign.com/ar...6/876950p2.html

"The combat system of Mass Effect is dynamic and deep. You can play through as a soldier, which makes it not unlike a third-person shooter where you have to use cover to shield yourself from enemy fire while popping out to shoot back. However, the other classes in the game let you tap what are called biotic and tech powers. You or your allies can use abilities such as singularity to send enemies floating in the air, letting you unload into them. (There's physics in the game, too, so pounding an opponent with enough force will send them hurtling through space.) Then there's the intricate weapon and armor system, with upgrade slots for almost everything, including different types of ammunition. At the same time, if you're not an action fan or you lack lightning-fast resources, Mass Effect is fairly forgiving, as you can pause the action at any time to issue orders to your teammates or you can tweak the game settings to give you a generous aiming reticule."

http://www.gamespot....ect/review.html

"On the PC, this pause is still available, but weapons and powers have been consolidated onto one screen, along with squad commands which you can now issue individually. Pressing the space bar will bring up a heads-up display where you can change weapons or powers and issue commands to your squad. Odds are you'll use this pause very rarely, because your weapons are mapped to the function keys and your biotic/tech powers can be assigned to the number keys.

Without frequent pauses, Mass Effect further distances itself from the ponderous, tactical feel of combat in previous BioWare role-playing games. Instead, it feels like a bona fide third-person action title. Gunning down small groups of enemies while barely breaking a stride is still immensely satisfying, as is blasting your way out of larger pitched battles--only now you can unleash multiple tech or biotic attacks on the fly. You can dart out from cover, take down enemies' shields, and explode their weapons--all while shooting them--and be back behind cover in a matter of seconds. The real reward of this faster, more fluid action is the sense of power it imbues. Wielding your formidable abilities with ease really makes you feel like the badass warrior you were meant to be, and it makes combat more exciting and fun."

I can't speak to the xBox version as I never played it, but here's reviews anywway:

"Thankfully, on-foot combat is a lot of fun. You'll accumulate six total teammates, two of whom can accompany you on missions at any given time. They have a variety of talents, and each of them is special in his or her own way. There's a variety of guns to choose from, from pistols to shotguns to assault rifles, and each weapon can be outfitted with various upgrades that may increase stability, add scanners that bypass disrupted enemy radar, and more. You can also outfit special ammunition, though you always have unlimited ammo."

http://xbox360.ign.c...3/833640p1.html

IGN here criticizes issues it states are specific to the 360 version so I can't even address whether or not they were solved.

So, where is this universal criticism I hear tell of? It's not universal criticism. It is your opinion and the opinion of others. I have my opinions which differ from yours, in some regards.

I have even tried to agree with you people on some points as an attempt to extend an olive braanch and make this a civil, friendly discussion of viewpoints. I agree that the invenory in ME was bad. As was the Mako and planetary exploration. When my intial inventory complaint was made, I was unaware that there was one, you just had to access it form the ship. I find this realistic and acceptable.

But I'm going to have to grow to accept the new combat system. I like a shooter as much as the next guy, but it's not what I wanted in ME 2. If you did, I'm glad. You're entitled to that opinion. But don't try to claim your opinion as fact while providing nothing to sunstantiate it as such.

Modifié par Typifire, 29 janvier 2010 - 05:53 .

[loboME2]

Interesting that Witcher was brought up. I found the inventory limiting as well . Never actually got around to completing the game....



To sum it up:

The issue is NOT about what is bad in ME1 nor what is good in ME2. Most people here agree on what is bad and good about the respective editions.



The issue IS about what is LACKING in ME2 (that should have been improved from ME1). I hope to not read about ME1 clunky inventory nor superior combat mechanism in ME2 again....





imo, the ideal improvement regarding inventory, would be the same as ME1 (but sortable!), and only accessible when in Normandy (for the realism effect).

[newcomplex]

Typifire wrote...

Okay. Let's put this heavily criticzed issue to rest right now. From Mass Effect reviews:

http://pc.ign.com/ar...6/876950p2.html

"The combat system of Mass Effect is dynamic and deep. You can play through as a soldier, which makes it not unlike a third-person shooter where you have to use cover to shield yourself from enemy fire while popping out to shoot back. However, the other classes in the game let you tap what are called biotic and tech powers. You or your allies can use abilities such as singularity to send enemies floating in the air, letting you unload into them. (There's physics in the game, too, so pounding an opponent with enough force will send them hurtling through space.) Then there's the intricate weapon and armor system, with upgrade slots for almost everything, including different types of ammunition. At the same time, if you're not an action fan or you lack lightning-fast resources, Mass Effect is fairly forgiving, as you can pause the action at any time to issue orders to your teammates or you can tweak the game settings to give you a generous aiming reticule."

http://www.gamespot....ect/review.html

"On the PC, this pause is still available, but weapons and powers have been consolidated onto one screen, along with squad commands which you can now issue individually. Pressing the space bar will bring up a heads-up display where you can change weapons or powers and issue commands to your squad. Odds are you'll use this pause very rarely, because your weapons are mapped to the function keys and your biotic/tech powers can be assigned to the number keys.

Without frequent pauses, Mass Effect further distances itself from the ponderous, tactical feel of combat in previous BioWare role-playing games. Instead, it feels like a bona fide third-person action title. Gunning down small groups of enemies while barely breaking a stride is still immensely satisfying, as is blasting your way out of larger pitched battles--only now you can unleash multiple tech or biotic attacks on the fly. You can dart out from cover, take down enemies' shields, and explode their weapons--all while shooting them--and be back behind cover in a matter of seconds. The real reward of this faster, more fluid action is the sense of power it imbues. Wielding your formidable abilities with ease really makes you feel like the badass warrior you were meant to be, and it makes combat more exciting and fun."

I can't speak to the xBox version as I never played it, bu here's reviews anywway:

"Thankfully, on-foot combat is a lot of fun. You'll accumulate six total teammates, two of whom can accompany you on missions at any given time. They have a variety of talents, and each of them is special in his or her own way. There's a variety of guns to choose from, from pistols to shotguns to assault rifles, and each weapon can be outfitted with various upgrades that may increase stability, add scanners that bypass disrupted enemy radar, and more. You can also outfit special ammunition, though you always have unlimited ammo."

http://xbox360.ign.c...3/833640p1.html

IGN here criticizes issues it states are specific to the 360 version so I can't even address whether or not they were solved.

So, where is this universal criticism I hear tell of? It's not universal criticism. It is your opinion and the opinion of others. I have my opinions which differ from yours, in some reagards.

I have even tried to agree with you people on some points as an attempt to extend an olive braanch and make this a civil, friendly discussion of viewpoints. I agree that the invenory in ME was bad. As was the Mako and planetary exploration. When my intial inventory complaint was made, I was unaware that there was one, you just had to access it form the ship. I find this realistic and acceptable.

But I'm going to have to grow to accept the new combat system. I like a shooter as much as the next guy, but it's not what I wanted in ME 2. If you did, I'm glad. You're entitled to that opinion. But don't try to claim your opinion as fact while providing nothing to sunstantiate it as such.

Its not an OPINION that once you get immunity, you are able to tank 6 rocket blasts consecutively on maximum difficulty.  

It is not an OPINION that weapons don't have any depth beyond the numerals on their damage.

loboME2 wrote...

Interesting that Witcher was brought up. I
found the inventory limiting as well . Never actually got around to
completing the game....

To sum it up:
The issue is NOT about
what is bad in ME1 nor what is good in ME2. Most people here agree on
what is bad and good about the respective editions.

The issue IS
about what is LACKING in ME2 (that should have been improved from ME1).
I hope to not read about ME1 clunky inventory nor superior combat
mechanism in ME2 again....


imo, the ideal improvement
regarding inventory, would be the same as ME1 (but sortable!), and only
accessible when in Normandy (for the realism effect).

Their
is certainly improvement to be had.   But to be so retardedly pretentious as to claim that ME2 is not within the RPG genre because of gripes about the combat, which is a more balanced version of the original, or the inventory, which is a less cluttered version of the original, but somehow hold that the original is a RPG, is downright
absurd.  

Your arguments however, are awesome.   People should be argueing along those lines instead :/

Don't get me wrong, your free to express how you hated this game, and how it sucks for you, but to claim its not a RPG because of personal gripes is a delusion.   

Modifié par newcomplex, 29 janvier 2010 - 05:59 .

[loboME2]

newcomplex wrote...
Their
is certainly improvement to be had.   But to be so retardedly pretentious as to claim that ME2 is not within the RPG genre because of gripes about the combat, which is a more balanced version of the original, or the inventory, which is a less cluttered version of the original, but somehow hold that the original is a RPG, is downright
absurd.  

Your arguments however, are awesome.   People should be argueing along those lines instead :/

Don't get me wrong, your free to express how you hated this game, and how it sucks for you, but to claim its not a RPG because of personal gripes is a delusion.   

The problem could be that the 'lacking' parts (i.e the improvements) that you and I agree exist, are the RPG components.

[stoopidboiy313]

It's so damn sad to see how many people are repetitively having this conversation/argument in so many places all over the forums. So, ME2 isn't an exact clone of ME1 with better graphics. When have you ever known BioWare to NOT up the bar from game to game (especially in any sort of trilogy or ongoing series)? It's not the game you paid to play? Well then, sadly, you should've saved your money and played something else.

I will forever be a fan of RPG's (not even gonna get into the pointless argument of what makes an RPG an RPG here) over any other genre of gaming and even I can gladly admit that the combat system from ME1 needed tweaking. Mean let's face it - if I pull a gun on you and shoot you in the face, I'm not going to stop to roll a %$#&@*% dice to see if it actually blows your brains against the wall, now am I? And really, that's the only thing that changed about combat. I'm liking the more realistic take on that aspect. And to all the people griping about having to "scrounge" for ammo... are you blind? Almost every type of enemy drops clips and there's almost always spare clips just lying around for the grabbing. As for the other aspects of the game they changed, I'm not really seeing too much to be all that upset about. I mean sure, they cut back on the character sheet a bit (i.e. class skill and such) but each class still has a fair amount of skills to deal with. If you ask me, this was a good thing, as you're actually somewhat forced to make some choices on character progression instead of just being able to dump a buttload of points into a massive array of skills and make that uber godly pwn-all character. Besides, with the update to the combat system and the removal of the chance effect, alot of those skills became useless anyways. So, the inventory is gone now, so what? You actually telling me you'd be running around a battlefield carrying some 25+ guns and perhaps just as many suits of armor on your person at any one time? "Wait, no don't shoot me mister Collector, my arms is full trying to juggle all these guns and this worthless armor! NOT FAIR! NOT FAIR!" Mean let's face it, you can only wear one suit of armor at any given time and only carry up to four possible guns. So what if the back-ups are kept in a locker on your ship? Again, this just makes the game all the more challenging and adds some tactics to the mix as you have to prep for each mission accordingly. Really, the only thing I found lacking with this is they failed to allow you to equip your teammates with different armor in any way, which would be cool but still hasn't been much of a problem. Granted, I haven't gotten around to playing the game on anything harder than the "Hard" difficulty but I haven't had a teammate die on me yet and I've gotten pretty far into the game. You can still equip them with the new weapons you research just fine, as long as they meet the prerequisite for using said weapon.

Remember, different doesn't = bad. If you really want to keep playing the same game over and over again with slightly better graphics and a new name then - in the gamer community - you will sadly always be a minority. Also, people need to stop complaining that BioWare is evil and that they ripped you off. It's not like they kept these new changes a big secret. If you didn't follow-up on a series you claim to love so much before its launch, that's your fail not BioWare's.

[loboME2]

wall of text ALERT!!!

[Cross5900]

loboME2 wrote...

imo, the ideal improvement regarding inventory, would be the same as ME1 (but sortable!), and only accessible when in Normandy (for the realism effect).

This.

[Korsriddare]

Eh, inventory wise it feels much better here. Instead of all the guns having similar characteristics with better stats, there are differences here. The cookie-cutter AR, or the burst AR? Instead of having to open my inventory everytime to switch between ammo mods when I meet different enemy types, I can use squad ammo powers. Instead of using the same mods (but different ranks) over and over again I can just buy the research and/or upgrade it for the entire squad.



I also like how it generally ties in with what is happening on screen. You and your crew does not look like they have much of a back pack, they simply scan the relevant data and research into the omni-tool.



I wish armor choices had a tad more impact, but I like how I can wear something that looks good without being too gimped (in terms of min/maxing), and still get some relevant differences (+storm speed, +influence etc).

[Mezinger]

kiyyto wrote...

OP:
you do understand that these forums are monitored, right?
you do understand that you are on the website of the company which made the game, right?
you do understand that EA are a bunch of gamer hating lying bastards, right?

Well, with that said... you cannot expect but at least 10 trolls for every valid comment.

Mass Effect 2 sucks balls.
It is nothing like any other BioWare game I've ever played.
Mass Effect 2 is a stripped down, shelled out skeleton of what Mass Effect was and instead of actually adding features to Mass Effect in order to make ME2 a better game, they have removed almost all of the rpg features and are trying to cram a bunch of LOSELY CONNECTED IRRELEVANT DRIVEL OF A DIALOGUE, and pass that off as the next best thing since sliced bread.

The story does not pull me in, not even a little. In fact, it irritates me.
This game is such an utter disappointment.
Mass Effect 2 tastes like cardboard, might as well be playing The Incredible Hulk.

Gas stations in space?
I have to buy gas on an ugly 2D side scrolling map? (with the same music as ME which fit ME but completely doesn't fit in ME2)

I have to buy "probes" to shoot onto a planet in order to know what the planet is composed of?
Sorry folks, but we can scan our own planet from the stratosphere, and we could scan planets in ME, but in ME2 we have to shoot crap-tastic probes up the sphincter of EA in order to get 1 of 4 possible elements. (4 elements are all we need to travel the galaxy and save the universe, huh?)

Anyone notice how horribly ugly and uniform all of the planets have become in ME2?
In ME, scanning a planet was completely unnecessary, but I liked to do it because looking at the planets was FUN. The music was right on and the planets were artfully designed, it was dark, it was lonely, it felt like SPACE. Planets in ME2 feel like they just fell out of a god damned gumball machine.

I hate you EA. I hate you more than I hate this new diluted mass effect 2. I hope you all lose your jobs and eat dirt. Long live the pirate bay and go cuss yourselves.

Music more appropriate for ME2's 2D navigation can be found in any nintendo of america game from 1980 to 89, maybe beyond.

Stage complete screens?
What the cuss?
WHY?
WHY?
WHY?
Why do you want to destroy every sense of immersion I could possibly squeeze out of this game. Stage complete screens are for games like Mario Brothers. Whoever made this feature should be SHOT DEAD. It is hard enough as it is to like watered down ME2, and the stage complete screens are a constant reminder of how horribly wrong this quote unquote sequel has turned. It feels as though whoever made this game is purposefully trying to take anyone who liked ME and stab them right in the face, slap them upside the head and say:
"You liked Mass Effect, huh?
Well, ****** on you, here's Mass Effect 2.
How do you like them apples?"

Why do you hate us EA?
Why do you have to come to everything we like and ****** all over it with your watered down ****** and your anal sales expectations.

The illusive man.
The illusive man is not a name. Even in a game as disappointing as this, characters ought to have names. As ass as the name Zaeed is, it is better than "the illusive man" (voiced by none other than Martin Sheen who is a hundred and fifty years old and might as well be a bullwhip cracking me on the back, because his voice is quite distinctive and everytime he ****ing speaks all I HEAR IS THE OVAL OFFICE!)

Go to hell, you, whoever put Martin Sheen in this game, without a name. Go straight to hell and burn, slowly.

Someone somewhere, or a group of someone's somewhere have cannibalized the game Mass Effect and are prostituting its rotting corpse for $49.99 or more.

Mass Effect 2 is complete garbage. The game is obviously not done. There is a skeleton of a great BioWare game here, that is all. I've been playing the game for about 4 hours now. I had to register my complaint now because it is so irritating, that I actually waited and paid for this crap.

Never again EA, BioWare, whoever did this crap, NEVER AGAIN!

Now,
it occurs to me that some people might think I'm actually upset. Well, I don't give a rat's ass. I don't have to play Mass Effect 2. I just want to assure the OP that he is correct. This game sucks balls. This game is NOT Mass Effect 2, this is EA's Mass Effect 2.

I think that this game could have been fantastic given another 2 years development, and that is probably what would have happened had BioWare remained its own, unless they really don't give a rat's ass either anymore.

Although you are going to be swarmed by idiots and people paid to say nice things (yes, they exist and I know someone who lives in Brooklyn who does this for work, don't care if you believe me, they call themselves social engineers or some other bull**** and sit around all day long twittering and texting and emailing and such to improve the image of businesses which hire them.) - let me assure you of one thing...

This is not Mass Effect 2.

Wow this is awesome! I'm not so sure I'd be quite so... passionate about it... but hey to each their own.

And one thing is for sure about all the people complaining about the complaining... those of us who are sad about the changes in ME2 will probably continue to complain until we feel heard... it's only been... 2 days? So it will probably be a little while longer yet... Bioware will probably say something like, we're sorry not everyone is happy, we wanted to greatly improve the fire fights and streamline the game for those of you who really miss our RPG game style please see DA:O. And that will be lame, but probably that's the best the complainers can expect and probably complaints will continue until the disgruntled "lost" feel heard.

Some of us have been Bioware forum members for a long time, me personally since 2002... it's been 8 years of at least semi-active community participation and I'm not sure why people think we're out of line to let our disappointment be known... and hopefully at some point heard and acknowledged by the Dev team.

[Amphrite]

Originalshb wrote...

 But I must agree: the level of immersion in ME1 was just *that* much higher because of all of the mundane little things: the exploration, the inventory, the very-nearly arbitrary stats, the customizable weapon/armor mods (which I actually very, very sorely miss...this whole upgrade system is a far cry from the mod system which allowed you to quickly adapt to a wide range of tactical situations), etc. All of these things made you more involved in the game.

If i understand correctly.  You're trying to say that the level of immersion was GREATER because of  all the things the removed your from the story/action?

If thats accurate well i don't understand your position then. It would be like a movie where they constantly paused it so they could refill your popcorn or explain the plot.

But that wasn't my point at least (to be fair i didn't read the whole forum since i'm at work, shhh ) what I would argue is that the inventory in ME1 was pointless a facsimile of other systems.  If you ask me in ME1 the inventory was more obligatory than nessasary.

Arbitrary stats?  Actually other than the points i put into weapons i never used i didn't find many arbitrary. What might have been is if you wanted to take to team members with you and they both had spent points in something like decryption. thats wastefull.

Not that they removed you from the action but that they made the player feel like the game was more than simply talking to progress the story to the point where the player could shoot things again.  The game basically was designed so you could play it like an action-filled RPG/shooter-ish cross and skip the "popcorn refills" for the most part or go around the universe doing random side quests and exploring random planets just for the hell of it.  Also, when I say arbitrary I mean that the DPS of all weapons was roughly equal for their level (for exception, though, Stinger II pistol was better than most level III/IV pistols) and you simply chose high damage, high RoF, high accuracy, or some mixture thereof.  Also, I tried to make the point that ME1 and ME2 have RPG like elements but are not in fact true RPG's.  So, a fully-fledged inventory system is unecessary and bulky and would have made the game feel more clumsy and inconvenienced the player.  However, going from a very basic inventory system to no inventory system just takes one more layer of added dimension off - if your player only carries guns and credits, it might as well be a shooter with upgrades (?).

I was just making the point, really, that all the people saying ME1 is an RPG are wrong, all the people saying ME2 is a shooter are (mostly) wrong, and, in my opinion, the only thing lost in ME2 is the immersion factor - i.e., feeling as if you're doing more than pointless side-quests (probes...I mean, come on how horrifyingly boring - yes, more so than trekking around planets in the Mako.  At least the Mako had guns and occasionally got attacked by Thrasher Maws).  However, I also believe the combat in ME2 is much more fluid than ME1 and I think the ammo system makes what was a very easy game (combat-wise) slightly more challenging, though it's still fairly straightforward.  

Either way, the debates here generally revolve around refusing to yield to a point so in the interest of fair play, I'll switch it up:

Decryption/Electronics skills were horrible wasted talent points and served no greater purpose than forcing you to min/max party skills instead of choosing parties which fit your play style best (at the risk of redundant skills).

[spernus]

loboME2 wrote...

Interesting that Witcher was brought up. I found the inventory limiting as well . Never actually got around to completing the game....

To sum it up:
The issue is NOT about what is bad in ME1 nor what is good in ME2. Most people here agree on what is bad and good about the respective editions.

The issue IS about what is LACKING in ME2 (that should have been improved from ME1). I hope to not read about ME1 clunky inventory nor superior combat mechanism in ME2 again....


imo, the ideal improvement regarding inventory, would be the same as ME1 (but sortable!), and only accessible when in Normandy (for the realism effect).

Bioware can and will aim to make Mass effect 3 near perfect,so they will probably focus on the rpg elements since combat has been fixed (so the perfect hybrid of rpg and shooter?).

Anyway,it doesn't matter for Bioware right now,since they are probably partying after seeing the reception toward Mass effect 2.

The next goal should be to vastly improve upon Dragon for the sequel,as I know Bioware can surpass their own Baldur's gate 2 (they have the skill to pull it off).

Hopefully Bioware experiment with the DLC while we wait for ME 3 (can't wait to see that Hammerhead and if it improve planet surface exploring,as I suspect it's a test to see if they can get it right and fully integrate it in the final chapter).

Modifié par spernus, 29 janvier 2010 - 06:57 .

[Darth Garrus]

First of all, ME2 is a great game. Fantastic RPG (one of the best). But it really became closer to a shooter. When you didn´t have to care about getting clips of ammo, because of a nice sci-fi explanation, was great. It meant that we were playing a RPG with action. Shooting-oriented you could say. But RPG first. Now, people like me, who love RPGs, but doesn´t exactly like shooters, are having to worry about a new genre, and having to deal with it to advance on their dear RPG. And wasn´t the "weapon overheated" feature exactly something to balance the neverending ammo? In my opinion, it was exactly what differentiated ME from other games. Now it is just like other shooters in that sense(in the action part of the game, I mean).

1 - Lesson to learn: if the RPG fans don´t defend their positions in the foruns, the shooters, and the "all I care is a next generation graphic" guys (the ones who, after you give them a great story and RPG, say: "hey, this game didn´t overload my system. I want my money back!) will be take everything over. Because they are the ones flooding the forums. Looks like the silence of many lead to the changes on ME. What did we want? We stood quiet while the shooters demanded changes. All Bioware could hear was their voices. So they changed everything. Hope the lesson was learned. Next time, come and say: "hey, I don´t want to spend my time caring so much about getting ammo. I care more about the dialogues, quests and etc. Change some mechanics if you can, ok. But don´t turn it into a shooter".

2 - WEIRD LIST: Types of ammo are now skills? That was really weird, come on. 
   - If you want to go back to the Normandy, whitout leaving the planet, you have to take the ship for a ride? You can´t go inside and go back outside while staying docked??? What they were thinking? Is that supposed to make me not want to go back in while on a mission? Why? I can´t decide that some elements of the planet are better faced with a different armor, and go inside and change it? Ooops, since I can´t access my inventory anymore, this is the only way. And I have to take a ship for a spin while doing it? Really...
  - Can´t talk to a companion outside the ship? That can kill a RPG...
  - I can´t access my inventory, but when I find a new weapon, it automatically substitutes mine? Can´t I decide which one I´m gonna use? Oh, they are telling me what is best for me, is that it?
  - Worring about fuel in space? Why the extra worry? Is that another way of giving us a "mini-game"? I really prefer to focus on saving the universe than having to drive the minuscule ship on the map! Fuel... hehehehe that was ridiculous.
   And I hope people can come up with many more.

   That said, it is still one of the great games ever released. If people stop thinking that a great game has no flaws, or you can´t think it is a 9.5/10 game, but still has flaws, and you can´t criticize it, we could make better games all the time. What I love more about the game is that it really flows well. Sometimes it´s like being in a movie. The characters are alive, there is a sense of companionship, camaradarie with the characters from ME1 (great that they are back), and so much more.

[Shannara13]

Daeion wrote...

Canden Zain wrote...

I replayed ME recently. As a long time Bioware fan, and a general player of videogames, the elemnts of the game I found most repetitive and dull were the planet scouring and the loot collection.

The same was true of Dragon Age. A million different long swords which differ in miniscule ways is not fun IMO. The only use for the vast majority of equipment recovered in either game was to trade it as quickly as possible. I think it's great Bioware have moved away from such an old fashioned and laborious game mechanic.

Just my tuppence.

But that is what a RPG is all about to many people.  It's all about finding that next upgrade, improving your char every chance that you get.  Diablo 2 was successful not because it had an ingaging story, but because you never knew when that next upgrade was right around the corner.  A RPG is not for everyone just as a shooter is not for everyone.  By trying to blur the lines BW is going to either make one side or the other happy but won't make both happy becuase to appease on group, you are going to remove something that the other group feels is very important.

I've played through about 6 hours of the game and honestly that's probably enough to understand how the rest of the game is going to play out mechanics wise and I'm at the point now where I am confident in saying that ME2 is a shooter with RPG elements tacked on where as ME1 was a RPG with shooter elements tacked on.

Except ME2 still has plenty of upgrades around the corner for you to find. The only difference is that it removed the millions of completely useless filler items that just wasted your time.

[Massadonious1]

Wrath of Doom wrote...

BioWare apologists live here.

No kidding, right? I was totally expecting Bungie apologists to reside on BioWare's official forums.

[Darth Garrus]

Modifié par Darth Suetam, 29 janvier 2010 - 07:36 .

[panos322]

everyone has the right to his opinion , but having that right does mean you have the right to shove your opinion down our throats .



That goes both to those that dislike the game and to those that like it.



FOR THE LOVE OF GOD , Stop making 100 page topics about the same friggin thing.



and if i see the words mass effect and gears of war on a topic title again.



I AM GONNA KILL A PUPPY!!!!!

[jbg927]

kiyyto wrote...



OP:

you do understand that these forums are monitored, right?

you do understand that you are on the website of the company which made the game, right?

you do understand that EA are a bunch of gamer hating lying bastards, right?



Well, with that said... you cannot expect but at least 10 trolls for every valid comment.



Mass Effect 2 sucks balls.

It is nothing like any other BioWare game I've ever played.

Mass Effect 2 is a stripped down, shelled out skeleton of what Mass Effect was and instead of actually adding features to Mass Effect in order to make ME2 a better game, they have removed almost all of the rpg features and are trying to cram a bunch of LOSELY CONNECTED IRRELEVANT DRIVEL OF A DIALOGUE, and pass that off as the next best thing since sliced bread.



The story does not pull me in, not even a little. In fact, it irritates me.

This game is such an utter disappointment.

Mass Effect 2 tastes like cardboard, might as well be playing The Incredible Hulk.



Gas stations in space?

I have to buy gas on an ugly 2D side scrolling map? (with the same music as ME which fit ME but completely doesn't fit in ME2)



I have to buy "probes" to shoot onto a planet in order to know what the planet is composed of?

Sorry folks, but we can scan our own planet from the stratosphere, and we could scan planets in ME, but in ME2 we have to shoot crap-tastic probes up the sphincter of EA in order to get 1 of 4 possible elements. (4 elements are all we need to travel the galaxy and save the universe, huh?)



Anyone notice how horribly ugly and uniform all of the planets have become in ME2?

In ME, scanning a planet was completely unnecessary, but I liked to do it because looking at the planets was FUN. The music was right on and the planets were artfully designed, it was dark, it was lonely, it felt like SPACE. Planets in ME2 feel like they just fell out of a god damned gumball machine.



I hate you EA. I hate you more than I hate this new diluted mass effect 2. I hope you all lose your jobs and eat dirt. Long live the pirate bay and go cuss yourselves.



Music more appropriate for ME2's 2D navigation can be found in any nintendo of america game from 1980 to 89, maybe beyond.



Stage complete screens?

What the cuss?

WHY?

WHY?

WHY?

Why do you want to destroy every sense of immersion I could possibly squeeze out of this game. Stage complete screens are for games like Mario Brothers. Whoever made this feature should be SHOT DEAD. It is hard enough as it is to like watered down ME2, and the stage complete screens are a constant reminder of how horribly wrong this quote unquote sequel has turned. It feels as though whoever made this game is purposefully trying to take anyone who liked ME and stab them right in the face, slap them upside the head and say:

"You liked Mass Effect, huh?

Well, ****** on you, here's Mass Effect 2.

How do you like them apples?"



Why do you hate us EA?

Why do you have to come to everything we like and ****** all over it with your watered down ****** and your anal sales expectations.



The illusive man.

The illusive man is not a name. Even in a game as disappointing as this, characters ought to have names. As ass as the name Zaeed is, it is better than "the illusive man" (voiced by none other than Martin Sheen who is a hundred and fifty years old and might as well be a bullwhip cracking me on the back, because his voice is quite distinctive and everytime he ****ing speaks all I HEAR IS THE OVAL OFFICE!)



Go to hell, you, whoever put Martin Sheen in this game, without a name. Go straight to hell and burn, slowly.



Someone somewhere, or a group of someone's somewhere have cannibalized the game Mass Effect and are prostituting its rotting corpse for $49.99 or more.



Mass Effect 2 is complete garbage. The game is obviously not done. There is a skeleton of a great BioWare game here, that is all. I've been playing the game for about 4 hours now. I had to register my complaint now because it is so irritating, that I actually waited and paid for this crap.



Never again EA, BioWare, whoever did this crap, NEVER AGAIN!



Now,

it occurs to me that some people might think I'm actually upset. Well, I don't give a rat's ass. I don't have to play Mass Effect 2. I just want to assure the OP that he is correct. This game sucks balls. This game is NOT Mass Effect 2, this is EA's Mass Effect 2.



I think that this game could have been fantastic given another 2 years development, and that is probably what would have happened had BioWare remained its own, unless they really don't give a rat's ass either anymore.



Although you are going to be swarmed by idiots and people paid to say nice things (yes, they exist and I know someone who lives in Brooklyn who does this for work, don't care if you believe me, they call themselves social engineers or some other bull**** and sit around all day long twittering and texting and emailing and such to improve the image of businesses which hire them.) - let me assure you of one thing...



This is not Mass Effect 2."



^this, absolutely this

[manyfistss]

Darkeus wrote...

Is ME2 a RPG. Yes for the short answer. DOes it have a character that you create or import from the one you create in ME1? Check.

Do you gather a party of like-minded individuals? Check.

DO you explore the world and take side quest? Can you find secret areas and items and missions?
I am gonna say check and check.

Is there a detailed story and not some "THose guys bad, shoot them!" story? Check

CAn you customize your armor and by doing so give your character different stats? Check, the stats aren't gone, they are just tied to armor now.

Can you upgrade and find new weapons? Check

DO you have to do research or go through some sort of "item synthesis" to acquire some items? Check. Heck, they finally put in some JRPG elements! Star Ocean and others have been doing this forever.

Just because it is streamlined (Which I like) doesn't mean it isn't a RPG. In the Tabletop Roleplaying world, we would call ME2 "rules-lite", meaning that it is more focused on story and Roleplaying and less on stats and crunch. If you are not good at shooters then you will have problems with this game. If you like stats and having fifty pieces of useless armor then this game does not have you in mind.

Mass Effect 2 compares more to games like Diablo II and Titan Quest (As all three are Action RPG's) then Gears of War one or 2. I liked both of those games alot and ME2 does not play like any of them.

Many would argue that ME1 = D&D 3.5e while ME2 = 4e. ME1 Fans will for the most part go over to ME2, however theres some with a stick up their butts and complain about everything. D&D 4e got a lot of rep for being for "casuals" "noobs"..etc. someone who doesn't "understand the complexity of 3.5/ME1" or some other BS. The truth is it's the same game, things change and **** happens. ME2 introduced ammo, something ME universe already had however while it's mechanically ammo lore wise it's a removable heat sinks that allows greater shots to be fired and greater impact upon hit. They made changes in the inventory no longer is your gun the same graphical model, but different types and they handle like different weapons. Heavy Pistol is semi-auto allowing you to spray and pay. Where as Hand Canon can't spray n' pay instead rely on hitting opponents at certain spots with loads of power. Streamlineing weapons isn't bad it's great. However lack of customization to your parties attire aside one pallet swap, that's silly in it's own right. 

[Zentrasi]

"Mass Effect 2: Gears of War with interactive dialogue"



Sounds like an awesome game to me.