48 réponses à ce sujet

[Panda]

Viv. Wynne is bit boring.

[Dieb]

Vivienne

 

She enchants my knighthood.

[EggplantRed]

Both!

 

Loved Wynne's healing and CC (with how I specced her) BUT love Viv's attitude and ability to wreck it as a KE...going to have to go draw on this one

[d1ta]

Wynn
She was like the group's mom in my warden's team I like her

[Uccio]

Wynne.

[Jaison1986]

Neither.

 

Wynne preaches too much  about everything. She is constantly trying to control how you live, wanting you to literally be the living embodiment of an grey warden, even though she doesn't actually know anything about them, insults your relationship with someone else and literally put more value to an religious object then the lives of innocent people. 

 

And Vivienne is... Vivienne.

[ThePhoenixKing]

Wynne, by a country mile. Yes, she can be preachy sometimes, but at the very least, she's willing to lead by example and live by the standards she sets for everyone else, while Vivienne is happy to shove mages back into the Circle on pain of death while having no intention of living by those same rules herself. Wynne is capable of great self-sacrifice, but for Vivienne, it's all about sacrificing other people for her ambitions/comforts.

 

Finally, (to be perfectly blunt) while Wynne gained her privileges through years of dedicated service, responsible use of magic and helping to defeat an insane homicidal dragon-god, Vivienne got hers by jumping into a politically-connected bed, hardly an example worth following.

[Lazarillo]

Wynne, by a country mile. Yes, she can be preachy sometimes, but at the very least, she's willing to lead by example and live by the standards she sets for everyone else, while Vivienne is happy to shove mages back into the Circle on pain of death while having no intention of living by those same rules herself. Wynne is capable of great self-sacrifice, but for Vivienne, it's all about sacrificing other people for her ambitions/comforts.

 

Eh, Wynne can get pretty hypocritical too.  She never hesitates to tell pretty much every non-Circle mage you encounter how they totally need to go back to the Circle and fix how broken it is, but she herself is always running around butting into other people's problems rather than trying to fix things herself.

 

Granted, she has better intentions than Vivienne, and precious little time to give those intentions form, but she still tends to try and justify locking everyone but herself up in that tower (then there's her whole Abomination thing, but that's probably a separate concern).

[Medhia_Nox]

I think the only people who hate Wynne are people who despise responsibility.  There was nothing manipulative or powermongering about Wynne at all - unlike Vivienne.  Wynne was just being honest about genuine philosophical concepts - concepts games like this can't explore because the minute they took a realistic turn a million basements across the globe would burst into rage flames. 

[teh DRUMPf!!]

 Random thought here but it is kind of sad that Wynne eventually takes back what she said about the Warden keeping a relationship when it was 100% true to begin with, just to grovel to the PC.

[Medhia_Nox]

@Mlady:  But if you ever study very important people who do very important things in the real world... a great deal of them share a very similar theme.  That theme is: Personal relationships take a back seat to the "bigger picture".  

 

You can't be self-absorbed in your own love... and achieve something truly remarkable (though, it can be said that love, itself, is 'truly remarkable').  

 

At the very LEAST - it's tremendously difficult and often takes a great deal of patience and understanding from the other party.  

 

So many great people have traded love... for greatness, and that's what Wynne is speaking to.  

"Can the Warden do what needs to be done, and still be self-absorbed? Especially when "what needs to be done" might involve dying?" 

[berelinde]

Vivienne.

 

Both hold strong opinions about the right way to do things and neither is shy about instructing you at great length on the subject, but Vivienne is far more entertaining about it. Ultimately, I'm going to ignore what they say and follow my own conscience, but Vivenne, at least, makes the show worthwhile.

[Liadan]

Wynne without a doubt. 

[teh DRUMPf!!]

She's not grovelling, she's realizing it was real love and not just an infatuation that would leave one hurt. She probably speaks from her own feelings regarding a certain Templar and Rhys. She did not want the Warden to end up like she did because she cared for them. Knowing Wynne, she knows she's right, but at the same time probably feels her own personal feelings are clouding her judgement.

 

It being real love only lends more legitimacy to her concern -- the Blight may force some situation where the Warden has to choose between their lover or the best interest of the war-effort (and, by extension, the people at large). If it was just an infatuation/skin-deep relationship then it is not much of a problem. If the Warden truly has feelings for that person, then it is one.

 

Mass Effect (1) did this very nicely, in fact. It is known to the player, if pursuing Ash or Kaidan, that there are regs against fraternization. This does not seem to concern the player much -- he/she is a Spectre, who will hold Shepard accountable? Then Virmire rolls around and you have to choose between both of those two, and doubtless does romantic interest factor into that decision (at which point, the player is likely thinking, "... oh.")

 

It arguably happens in the end of DA:O with Alistair/Morrigan romances, given how you felt about the implications of the Warden's life and of the Dark Ritual. It's just too bad Wynne had to backtrack on something she was right about, though, IMO.

[Medhia_Nox]

@Professor X:  No more than the Dark Ritual was a total cop out for the price Wardens pay to beat the Blight. 

 

The only way to save your Warden should have been to sacrifice Alistair or Loghain.

 

Or the Connor situation - where you can just run off to the Tower and the demon waits for you to get back to exorcise it.

 

Video games are not capable of showing any sort of reality (and by that I mean - undesirable consequences based on play decision making) because... reasons.

[Aren]

I think the only people who hate Wynne are people who despise responsibility.  There was nothing manipulative or powermongering about Wynne at all - unlike Vivienne.  Wynne was just being honest about genuine philosophical concepts - concepts games like this can't explore because the minute they took a realistic turn a million basements across the globe would burst into rage flames. 

Wynne is not just better than Viv she is also one of my favourite in the franchise,she has always cared for my warden,even in DAA 

She is one of the few character who help the warden during the blight genuinely for Ferelden and as a responsibility, without asking nothing in return,she cared for every companion in DAO for Alistair,leliana,Sten (the blanket),Dog(wash him),Zevran,Oghren in some banter even for Loghain and Morrigan even if they have always responded in a  cold way.

[DarkKnightHolmes]

Wynne has a magical bosom. Vivienne has no match for that.

 

 

Wynne is not just better than Viv she is also one of my favourite in the franchise,she has always cared for my warden,even in DAA 

She is one of the few character who help the warden during the blight genuinely for Ferelden ad as a responsibility, without asking nothing in return,she cared for every companion in DAO for Alistair,leliana,Sten (the blanket),Dog(wash him),Zevran,Oghren in some banter even for Loghain and Morrigan even if they have always responded in a  cold way.

 

 

Well said, she has no secret motive or personal agenda. She just wants to help and she probably see's the Warden character as a substitute son/daughter.

[Magdalena11]

Vivienne.

 

Both hold strong opinions about the right way to do things and neither is shy about instructing you at great length on the subject, but Vivienne is far more entertaining about it. Ultimately, I'm going to ignore what they say and follow my own conscience, but Vivenne, at least, makes the show worthwhile.

Sorry, sis, gotta disagree with you there.  Viv's an imperious b!tch who would benefit greatly from learning what it means to not be sleeping with a duke.  The only claim she has to wisdom is if you give her an amulet.  I will acknowledge that she's good at playing the game, but as opposed to Leliana, there's nothing underneath but spite.  She has faith, intelligence, and drive, and believe it or not, she actually cares for someone besides herself (Bastien, but if they were close).  That doesn't make her a good person.  That makes her a person willing to use your sympathy to get the power she craves.  My general approach to her is to use her for quests and give her as little power as I can get away with, much like we did with Leliana, before they made her human.  It really doesn't change gameplay.  You still get the snow white quest and can suck up to her relatives.  

 

Actually, back up.  Weren't you railing about tranquility when I was saying it might sometimes be the kindest option?  She'd have everyone that didn't agree with her tranquil, because obviously, since they disagreed with her, they were misled, and it must have been by demons, otherwise how could they think differently than her.  Haven't you noticed that Solas and Viv are two sides of the same coin?  They believe they are right and if you disagree, you're either misinformed or wrong.  I'm not sure what Solas would do about a mage who didn't conform to what it was supposed to do, but you know what Viv's response would be, and I'm surprised you'd think that was OK.  Viv has a strong personality, and if you agree with her very narrow, intolerant views, she's the only way to fly.

 

I respect Viv.  I just disapprove of everything she stands for.  She won't change her mind, nor would I ask her to, so out of mutual desire not to make things worse, I don't look for her to talk and she doesn't ask me my opinion, because we have nothing good to say to each other.  While I did accidentally make her divine once (I reloaded and replayed, don't worry)  I keep her on a leash and tell her what to think, because apparently she thinks that's the way things should  be.  I wish I didn't have to, since she really is an intelligent woman, but her intolerance and narrow mind pretty much make her nothing but a liability and while I'd rather not have to simply lock her up to and keep her from being a danger to others, she herself favors that choice as a solution to social problems.  I'm sure she'll understand perfectly when the shoe is on the other foot.

[Aren]

@Professor X:  No more than the Dark Ritual was a total cop out for the price Wardens pay to beat the Blight. 

 

The only way to save your Warden should have been to sacrifice Alistair or Loghain.

 

 

well sacrifice Loghain is not such a big  deal,actually even sacrifice Alistair is nothing for my warden he is just a rival to the throne.

[Suledin]

Wynne is dead...I liked her and like Vivienne too. 

Two different characters.