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Study Shows Gender/Race Bias Can Be Overcome Through Sleep Stimulus


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#126
Fast Jimmy

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This is the most innocuous and irrelevant study. The IAT is literally this game but with racism and sexism instead of apples and cucumbers:

sorting%20game.JPG

The idea that this is brainwashing people is idiotic.


I agree that the IATs are a questionable testing method (and address as much in my OP).

That being said, you make the assumption that subconscious reactions aren't tied to bias, attitudes and behaviors. My experience with cognitive behavioral therapy leads me to believe otherwise.

A person who smokes a cigarette every day when they go to work is trying to quit. As they walk out their front door to get into their car, the thought process that walking out the door triggers includes a laundry list of automated responses, from taking steps to the car, to open the door, to putting on a seat belt, to activating the knowledge schematic of operating a vehicle, to pulling out a cigarette and lighting it up. The brain, subconsciously, begins doing work to handle all of these tasks, including prepping nicotine receptors to receive nicotine through that first cigarette. Someone trying to quit will have these receptors fired up through pattern behavior, making them neurologically agitated and making it hard for them to quit. Smokers who participate in cognitive behavioral therapy sessions for smoking identify these triggers and can mentally take steps to remove the thoughts of smoking from their mental behavior list, making it easier to quit because their nicotine receptors aren't being primed (and essentially screaming) for nicotine by their daly behaviors.

Now. Is it too much of a leap that a police officer who sees a brown skinned face and is more likely to draw the association of "bad" or possibly even other adjectives, like "dangerous," would then go through their automated behavioral processes with different outcomes, like more intense scrutiny, higher suspicion (that might result in being more likely to make an arrest) or even using violence in self defense due to a perceived threat?

I'm not saying training to "pass" IATs would make someone less racist. Or even that people who "fail" IATs are racist. But I think it may be very dangerous to underestimate the effects associations have on subconscious thought and subsequent behaviors.

Not to mention the one week retention. People look at that and say "they only tested one week - that's nothing." Which is true, you won't change someone's life by affecting their responses for just one week. But for anyone who has been invovled with training in the workplace, they will tell you - getting people to retain knowledge for a DAY after training is considered a huge success. For an entire week to still see statistically significant effects of the training would be considered highly effective.
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#127
Br3admax

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I'm not white, nor do I care about being one. But I can't help but feel that people are so obsessed with race that it comes off as a bit... creepy. All of em'. The racists, victims, the white knights, etc.

Well generally speaking, it's always people unaffected by these things that actually try to make a big deal out of it, trying to go out of their way to tell you why this affects you and why your life is terrible because you don't yourself attractive, something else you didn't know, and secretly are bigoted against your own kind. Literally no one else has time for that. 


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#128
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Are you a deep seated troll or SJW? Which is it? I'm beginning to think you're like this undercover troll dude.

Jimmy has digivolved into Eternal Phoenix,.



#129
Fast Jimmy

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Jimmy has digivolved into Eternal Phoenix,.


Don't insult EP like that.
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#130
Jorji Costava

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This is the most innocuous and irrelevant study. The IAT is literally this game but with racism and sexism instead of apples and cucumbers:

 

The research on implicit bias is pretty substantial at this point. A 2009 meta-analysis (link to PDF) concluded that the IAT is a better predictor of behavior than self report. A 2007 study concluded that physicians' performance on the IAT was predictive of their likelihood of recommending thrombolysis for white and black patients. Examples like this could be multiplied.

Never underestimate the mind's ability to be affected by seemingly trivial situational cues whose effects we aren't aware of. Hell, being placed in a disgusting room makes you more likely to judge people and their actions harshly, altering ambient odors can affect the likeliness of helping behavior, and even your name can affect your choice of occupation. The literature on priming effects is voluminous; it would be shocking if race, gender, etc. weren't factors that could influence behavior in this way.



#131
Sigma Tauri

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The research on implicit bias is pretty substantial at this point. A 2009 meta-analysis (link to PDF) concluded that the IAT is a better predictor of behavior than self report. A 2007 study concluded that physicians' performance on the IAT was predictive of their likelihood of recommending thrombolysis for white and black patients. Examples like this could be multiplied.

 

LOL, physician bias is pretty explicit where I work. If you're white and/or rich, the outcome of your surgery is pretty good. But, if you're poor and/or a minority, the surgeon will do the surgery, then kick you out once the insurance runs out. You know what's fucked up? Those patients come back for the same admitting diagnosis. Physicians can be greedy motherfuck*rs.


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#132
Guest_AedanStarfang_*

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Pretty sure i'm going to kill myself, yep suicide is looking better and better



#133
Althix

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effective brain washing to rid people of biases.

but i love my biases...



#134
mybudgee

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Pretty sure i'm going to kill myself, yep suicide is looking better and better

Hemmingway Approves!

Ernest-Hemingway-007.jpg

 

:wizard:



#135
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Hemmingway Approves!

Ernest-Hemingway-007.jpg

 

:wizard:

 

Hemingway lived an exciting life before he offed himself.

 

So I'd recommend that too.



#136
Dermain

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I agree that the IATs are a questionable testing method (and address as much in my OP).

That being said, you make the assumption that subconscious reactions aren't tied to bias, attitudes and behaviors. My experience with cognitive behavioral therapy leads me to believe otherwise.

A person who smokes a cigarette every day when they go to work is trying to quit. As they walk out their front door to get into their car, the thought process that walking out the door triggers includes a laundry list of automated responses, from taking steps to the car, to open the door, to putting on a seat belt, to activating the knowledge schematic of operating a vehicle, to pulling out a cigarette and lighting it up. The brain, subconsciously, begins doing work to handle all of these tasks, including prepping nicotine receptors to receive nicotine through that first cigarette. Someone trying to quit will have these receptors fired up through pattern behavior, making them neurologically agitated and making it hard for them to quit. Smokers who participate in cognitive behavioral therapy sessions for smoking identify these triggers and can mentally take steps to remove the thoughts of smoking from their mental behavior list, making it easier to quit because their nicotine receptors aren't being primed (and essentially screaming) for nicotine by their daly behaviors.

Now. Is it too much of a leap that a police officer who sees a brown skinned face and is more likely to draw the association of "bad" or possibly even other adjectives, like "dangerous," would then go through their automated behavioral processes with different outcomes, like more intense scrutiny, higher suspicion (that might result in being more likely to make an arrest) or even using violence in self defense due to a perceived threat?

I'm not saying training to "pass" IATs would make someone less racist. Or even that people who "fail" IATs are racist. But I think it may be very dangerous to underestimate the effects associations have on subconscious thought and subsequent behaviors.

Not to mention the one week retention. People look at that and say "they only tested one week - that's nothing." Which is true, you won't change someone's life by affecting their responses for just one week. But for anyone who has been invovled with training in the workplace, they will tell you - getting people to retain knowledge for a DAY after training is considered a huge success. For an entire week to still see statistically significant effects of the training would be considered highly effective.

 

You see, all of that is nice, but it's not why they did the study. 

 

That's the thing that annoys me about this. This was more of a starting ground for what they want their technique to be used for, the social bias part was icing on the cake as it were.

 

The research on implicit bias is pretty substantial at this point. A 2009 meta-analysis (link to PDF) concluded that the IAT is a better predictor of behavior than self report. A 2007 study concluded that physicians' performance on the IAT was predictive of their likelihood of recommending thrombolysis for white and black patients. Examples like this could be multiplied.

Never underestimate the mind's ability to be affected by seemingly trivial situational cues whose effects we aren't aware of. Hell, being placed in a disgusting room makes you more likely to judge people and their actions harshly, altering ambient odors can affect the likeliness of helping behavior, and even your name can affect your choice of occupation. The literature on priming effects is voluminous; it would be shocking if race, gender, etc. weren't factors that could influence behavior in this way.

 

There's one problem with the implicit bias in this study though. The subjects that went through the training AND had the sound played were the only ones that showed any retention of the training, and the only reason for that was that they were classically conditioned to the sound. The ones that went through the training without the sound had no retention whatsoever. 

 

LOL, physician bias is pretty explicit where I work. If you're white and/or rich, the outcome of your surgery is pretty good. But, if you're poor and/or a minority, the surgeon will do the surgery, then kick you out once the insurance runs out. You know what's fucked up? Those patients come back for the same admitting diagnosis. Physicians can be greedy motherfuck*rs.

 

And this is the problem with making healthcare about profits and not actual healthcare...


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#137
Kaiser Arian XVII

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Hemmingway Approves!

Ernest-Hemingway-007.jpg

 

:wizard:

 

Study shows photos and movies taken in 50s and 60s have more durability than those in 70s and 80s.

The 70/80s ones look like crap now, but the older ones look surprisingly good (preserved by the good material of the time).


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#138
Sully13

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brainwash.gif?w=316



#139
Dark Helmet

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Well then.

 

I'm sure this could never in any way be abused.



#140
Guest_AedanStarfang_*

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Hemingway lived an exciting life before he offed himself.

 

So I'd recommend that too.

Yes I am sure YOU would recommend it as it would probably fulfill some sort of agenda of yours, but there won't be any self-harm/suicide snuff film posting so you will have to get your rocks off somewhere else...sorry to disappoint

 

Spoiler



#141
Dermain

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Well then.

 

I'm sure this could never in any way be abused.

 

Well unless they manage to play a tone during training, during sleep, and throughout every single day it can't be abused.



#142
In Exile

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The research on implicit bias is pretty substantial at this point. A 2009 meta-analysis (link to PDF) concluded that the IAT is a better predictor of behavior than self report. A 2007 study concluded that physicians' performance on the IAT was predictive of their likelihood of recommending thrombolysis for white and black patients. Examples like this could be multiplied.

Never underestimate the mind's ability to be affected by seemingly trivial situational cues whose effects we aren't aware of. Hell, being placed in a disgusting room makes you more likely to judge people and their actions harshly, altering ambient odors can affect the likeliness of helping behavior, and even your name can affect your choice of occupation. The literature on priming effects is voluminous; it would be shocking if race, gender, etc. weren't factors that could influence behavior in this way.


But that's not my criticism. Psychologist focus too strongly on the superiority of a particular method over self-report as being positive and affirming evidence of their purported effect without actually positing a mechanism by which the effect operates. This is the fundamental problem with the IAT. There are multiple possible explanations - which moreover are equivocal - that explain the effect. This is what I take issue with and not the fact that an effect exists.

There is also an analytical circularity to the theory. Let me explain. A racist is obviously going to lie about being a racist. And a racist is almost certainly going to have a great deal of associational concept maps that represent one race negatively and another positively. But we can't go from there to draw the inference that the racist attitude isn't explicit. The whole point of the self-report is that you can lie on it because it's blatantly antisocial to be a racist. You can't fake the IAT reaction time but that does not actually make it implicit as a measure. You can very well still just be an explicit racist who is quited about your beliefs.

A different way of putting this is to use phlogiston chemistry as an example. Oxygen chemistry - at the initial phase of its adoption - was not universally superior. Phlogiston explained things - this is why it was in favour to start with in chemistry. But the explanatory power of the theory - which unlike the IAT did have a clearer mechanical explanation - was not simultaneously proof of its truth.

The disgusting line of research is actually mechanically different from the IAT because it does posit a mechanism to explain the effect: that neurologically the same mechanism governing disgust was co-opted to manage moral evaluation, hence getting glitched when it's asked to perform both tasks simultaneously (food and morality).

The disgust research is grounded in a mechanism in the way the IAT is not.
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#143
In Exile

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I agree that the IATs are a questionable testing method (and address as much in my OP).

That being said, you make the assumption that subconscious reactions aren't tied to bias, attitudes and behaviors. My experience with cognitive behavioral therapy leads me to believe otherwise.

A person who smokes a cigarette every day when they go to work is trying to quit. As they walk out their front door to get into their car, the thought process that walking out the door triggers includes a laundry list of automated responses, from taking steps to the car, to open the door, to putting on a seat belt, to activating the knowledge schematic of operating a vehicle, to pulling out a cigarette and lighting it up. The brain, subconsciously, begins doing work to handle all of these tasks, including prepping nicotine receptors to receive nicotine through that first cigarette. Someone trying to quit will have these receptors fired up through pattern behavior, making them neurologically agitated and making it hard for them to quit. Smokers who participate in cognitive behavioral therapy sessions for smoking identify these triggers and can mentally take steps to remove the thoughts of smoking from their mental behavior list, making it easier to quit because their nicotine receptors aren't being primed (and essentially screaming) for nicotine by their daly behaviors.

Now. Is it too much of a leap that a police officer who sees a brown skinned face and is more likely to draw the association of "bad" or possibly even other adjectives, like "dangerous," would then go through their automated behavioral processes with different outcomes, like more intense scrutiny, higher suspicion (that might result in being more likely to make an arrest) or even using violence in self defense due to a perceived threat?

I'm not saying training to "pass" IATs would make someone less racist. Or even that people who "fail" IATs are racist. But I think it may be very dangerous to underestimate the effects associations have on subconscious thought and subsequent behaviors.

Not to mention the one week retention. People look at that and say "they only tested one week - that's nothing." Which is true, you won't change someone's life by affecting their responses for just one week. But for anyone who has been invovled with training in the workplace, they will tell you - getting people to retain knowledge for a DAY after training is considered a huge success. For an entire week to still see statistically significant effects of the training would be considered highly effective.


CBT is fundamentally different from the IAT. There's no comparison because CBT relies on a different mechanism deriving from a different theory about how cognition, behaviour and emotion interrelate.

Ever since Freud brought the term "subconscious" into being there has been a lot of pop psychology sorrounding the term which I think leads people astray as to its operations. That's not to say that much of cognitive processing happens consciously as we understand it because it does not. But what it means for it to happen subconsciously is complicated and the actual drivers behind different effects have to be mechanically explained before we can start giving weight to different explanatory theories.

CBT operates by effectively co-opting the fact that - contrary to older beliefs about brains - express thoughts exist in a feedback loop with neurobiology whereby your thoughts CAN influence your neurological architecture. This is an oversimplification and the method of CBT is somewhat coarse but the basic idea is that it allows you a way to chemically modify your neurological functions in a way that you would do with drugs (though not at the same magnitude) by taking advantage of the fact that your brain - for the purposes of this goal - is actually quite malleable and plastic.

It is a tremendous leap to go from the general notion that the brain is plastic to the idea that the IAT predicts "attitudes". It's a leap because mental associations of the kind being studied are actually more akin to fundamental premises. Let me give an example.

Let's say someone is an incredibly virulent racist. This person venerates the KKK. The views are so repugnant we would all vomit if we heard them. But at the same time this racist suffers from a series of perceptual deficiencies. So serious, in fact, that this person will not be able to visually distinguish between race except in rare and ideal (from a sensory POV) circumstances. On measure of explicit behaviour you won't see racism. But that's not a reflection of a belief or attitude in any meaningful way. This is an absurd example designed to show how important perception is to behaviour independent of what we consider attitude.

The idea of implicit prejudice is this analytical problem but in reverse. Most reliable cognitive research into associational concept maps indicates that they are fundamental to the way we build frameworks to process information. Our actual perception of the world varies. This is because the world gives of ABSURD volumes of information. We cannot process it all. So we have frames that filter information to create a coherent worldview and process our situation.

A more "prejudicial" concept map by IAT terms means that the actual framework of the world you are operating in - your perceptions of a situation - are not identical to a person with a different score. Now we might debate how different this really is because no one here is an idealist in the philosophical sense. But it is not identical.

So let's go back to the cop. Having different conceptual associations feeds back in a real way into the cops perception. Where someone with a "non" prejudiced map might focus and foreground information not relevant to danger or threat a "prejudiced" might do the opposite. There is a verital wealth of science showing that social perception is equivocal and influenced by our cognitive frame (cf. social cognitive psychology).

The end result is that the IAT is predictive of behaviour we identify as being prejudiced or not. But to say it is an "attitude" is a bit nonsensical.

That's my objection to the IAT. I think it is garbage from a concept POV.
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#144
Jorji Costava

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@In Exile:

 

I think we're getting too caught up with whether or not implicit bias constitutes an 'attitude' or 'belief.' For example, consider Nisbett and Wilson's famous 1977 stockings experiment; place four identical stockings next to each other and then ask subjects which one they think is the best in terms of texture, color, etc. In general, you'll see a strong bias towards choosing the right-most stocking. Does this indicate implicit beliefs or attitudes to the effect that things furthest to the right are best? Does it matter? The point is that subconscious automatic processes are exerting an influence on behavior in ways contrary to our explicitly held beliefs: No one consciously believes that a stocking's being further to the right or being viewed most recently makes it a better stocking.

As far as what mechanisms underwrite implicit bias, I'm far from an expert on the literature, but there apparently are some existing theories as to how implicit bias works (see section 1.3 of this article). But even leaving aside which particular model of implicit bias you adopt, we can still articulate the following 'thin' empirical thesis regarding the existence of implicit bias: In race-relevant situations, unconscious automatic processes (notice I did not say beliefs or attitudes) sometimes lead people to behave in ways that are contrary to their explicitly and sincerely held beliefs about race. This thesis seems extremely hard to deny. To do so, you would have to suppose that conscious and intentional deception by explicit racists accounts for 100% of the discrepancy between self-report and IAT performance. This seems implausible for a number of reasons, not the least of which is the following.

Beliefs are a significant part of how we construct our self-image. If we see ourselves as compassionate or tough-minded, we tend to adopt beliefs that comport with these identities. And as you mention, racist attitudes are widely seen as anti-social, as well as being products of poor education/ignorance; no one wants to see themselves as ignorant and anti-social; consequently, we tend to adopt beliefs that fit with this self-image, which means adopting anti-racist, egalitarian explicit beliefs. But this needn't correspond to a change in how our subconscious processing works. Consequently, when people who perform poorly on the IAT report anti-racist attitudes, they may not be lying; instead, they might be confabulating. This fits well with the hypothesis of implicit bias.



#145
o Ventus

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Incidentally, Sargon of Akkad spoke about this very same thing recently (NSFW language):

 

https://youtu.be/MfBQOyyRgTE?t=3m15s

 

I agree with close to everything he says. Aldous Huxley would p*** his pants in fear if he were still alive.


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