150 réponses à ce sujet

[Rawgrim]

Ehh, no they're not. Lazarus outright isn't breaking any lore, and the Crucible, while a major asspull with no prior basis in the plot, isn't breaking anything either.

 

Deus Ex Machina.

[Rawgrim]

No they haven't. Aside from constantly apparently thinking that DA team is the only team at Bioware, from what I understand there is a not of lot overlap between the team of DA and PoE, while SWC's central connection DAO is the director of the game, who probably had nothing to do with the writing of the DAO. Actually, the writing team, again from what I understand, is pretty much the same from DAO to DAI, with the loss of Jennifer Hepler being the largest that I know of.

 

Yes plenty have. Even the founders left. A bunch of old Bioware people are involved with The Sword Coast Legends, now as well. The trailer for it even says "From the creators of Dragon Age:Origins". Plenty left when EA took over and started messing around with everything. The lead writer for Mass Effect left as well. Hence why the ME3 got so screwed up.

[BansheeOwnage]

I'm not sure I'd call ME1's ending great. The Saren-hopper was a silly waste of time, and the human-dominated Council never made any sense.

Obviously your mileage may vary. I thought it was cool, and a solid ending. Besides, about the council, that's the epilogue. It's like saying you didn't like the divine choice in DA:I. That's fine and all, but I was talking about the end run.

 

Ehh, no they're not. Lazarus outright isn't breaking any lore, and the Crucible, while a major asspull with no prior basis in the plot, isn't breaking anything either.

That depends what it does. As presented (being able to fuse synthetics and organics), it makes pretty much no sense.

[wolfhowwl]

Yes plenty have. Even the founders left. A bunch of old Bioware people are involved with The Sword Coast Legends, now as well. The trailer for it even says "From the creators of Dragon Age:Origins". Plenty left when EA took over and started messing around with everything. The lead writer for Mass Effect left as well. Hence why the ME3 got so screwed up.

 

In fairness Drew K's Dark Energy idea was also hilariously terrible.

 

The game he was in charge of also had a very weakly written party and clearly didn't understand its own morality system.

[Morroian]

No they haven't. Aside from constantly apparently thinking that DA team is the only team at Bioware, from what I understand there is a not of lot overlap between the team of DA and PoE, while SWC's central connection DAO is the director of the game, who probably had nothing to do with the writing of the DAO. Actually, the writing team, again from what I understand, is pretty much the same from DAO to DAI, with the loss of Jennifer Hepler being the largest that I know of.

 

Biggest single loss to the DA team was Brent Knowles, a very good lead game designer with an actual vision for the franchise who was never adequately replaced. Hence why the franchise has had no vision since he left. 

[wolfhowwl]

The people who wrote great side quests for previous Bioware games have all left the company. They are making games like Sword Coast Legends, Pillars of Eternity, and thing like that.

 

Did DA:O have decent side quests outside of the companion stuff? I only remember the rhyming tree.

[Realmzmaster]

Did DA:O have decent side quests outside of the companion stuff? I only remember the rhyming tree.

 

The rhyming tree was part of the main quest. The warden could not get past the barrier to get to Witherfang without the tree branch staff from the rhyming tree.

[o Ventus]

 

That depends what it does. As presented (being able to fuse synthetics and organics), it makes pretty much no sense.

That doesn't make it lore breaking, just stupid.

[Hiemoth]

Yes plenty have. Even the founders left. A bunch of old Bioware people are involved with The Sword Coast Legends, now as well. The trailer for it even says "From the creators of Dragon Age:Origins". Plenty left when EA took over and started messing around with everything. The lead writer for Mass Effect left as well. Hence why the ME3 got so screwed up.

 

The lead writer of ME2, who I assume you discussing here, is not involved any of the games you mentioned and has not said anything negative relating to him leaving. Besides everytime I see this comment made, I am more and more curious if the people making them really know what his proposed plan was.

 

And yeah, the trailer says from that, which must feel great for the creators of DAO who are not involved in that game, but you are correct, there is no way an ad blurb without any real specifics could be misleading. So out of curiosity, which creators of DAO are involved in Sword Coast Legends? I only know that director Tudge is mentioned often with it and that Knowles is apparently somehow related to it, but which vast masses of DAO writers are there?

[Hiemoth]

Biggest single loss to the DA team was Brent Knowles, a very good lead game designer with an actual vision for the franchise who was never adequately replaced. Hence why the franchise has had no vision since he left. 

 

But that is not really true. They had vision for Dragon Age. It was a different vision that Brent Knowles, hence him leaving. The irritating thing that happened after his departure is the constant insistance everything good about Dragon Age Origins was because of Knowles, which is insanely insulting towards the rest of the creative team. Just look in this thread, where someone is claiming that pretty much everyone from DAO left the company, which is not true.

 

I am by the way not claiming your writing such assertions, just venting on a general basis.

[Hiemoth]

In fairness Drew K's Dark Energy idea was also hilariously terrible.

 

The game he was in charge of also had a very weakly written party and clearly didn't understand its own morality system.

 

I cannot like this comment enough. Everytime I see someone commenting how Drew K's idea was so much better, I am left wondering how they could have problems with the current ME3 endings as they are nothing compared to his idea.

[Hiemoth]

Did DA:O have decent side quests outside of the companion stuff? I only remember the rhyming tree.

 

I don't know. Maybe? Every example I can think, such as a lot of the quest in the Ostagar, end up tying completely in to the main plot and DLC really doesn't count.

 

Most of the really great DA2 sidequests I come up were from DA2, but those don't count either as that is after the creative innovaters left.

[In Exile]

Did DA:O have decent side quests outside of the companion stuff? I only remember the rhyming tree.

Wait, you thought the companion stuff was decent in DA:O? A lot of quests were designed on the critical path, but "felt" like side quests. Take the proving for example - it's part of the Harrowmont crit path but it feels like a side quest. Just like the rhyming tree. Crit path quest. 

[DarkKnightHolmes]

Did DA:O have decent side quests outside of the companion stuff? I only remember the rhyming tree.

 

I find a lot of them decent but that was because you could just do them as you progressed in the main story. For example, the Brecillion Forest has like 10 side quests but you can do them the same time you're doing the werewolf mission. Also a lot of them let you pick sides or avoid bloodshed if you made the right choice.

[Zinho73]

I cannot like this comment enough. Everytime I see someone commenting how Drew K's idea was so much better, I am left wondering how they could have problems with the current ME3 endings as they are nothing compared to his idea.

I do think the Dark Energy idea is not that great. And I do think it is way, way better than the actual ending. 

[Zinho73]

I find a lot of them decent but that was because you could just do them as you progressed in the main story. For example, the Brecillion Forest has like 10 side quests but you can do them the same time you're doing the werewolf mission. Also a lot of them let you pick sides or avoid bloodshed if you made the right choice.

I was just thinking the same thing, it is not just the quality or type of quest, but pacing, reward and other minor things that keep you interested. Sometimes you feel like you are wandering around in DAI without anything worth mentioning happening.

 

Also, the nature of the quest is something important. In The Witcher you have to destroy monster nests and it makes sense - only your character can make this. When the Inquisitor has to secure blankets for the garrison it is not exactly interesting and feels completely out of character.

 

Mechanically , they are the same kinds of quest: go to checkpoint, kill some monsters roaming around, interact with quest object to get reward, but thematically one is much more engaging than the other.

[Br3admax]

I find a lot of them decent but that was because you could just do them as you progressed in the main story. For example, the Brecillion Forest has like 10 side quests but you can do them the same time you're doing the werewolf mission. Also a lot of them let you pick sides or avoid bloodshed if you made the right choice.

Those were just more of the same boring fetch-quests people complain about in DA:I. I can't remember 10 side quests from the Brecilian Forest, let alone 10 decent ones. 

 

I was just thinking the same thing, it is not just the quality or type of quest, but pacing, reward and other minor things that keep you interested. Sometimes you feel like you are wandering around in DAI without anything worth mentioning happening.

 

Those things weren't in DA:O either. If DA:I's maps were smaller and the more linear again, they'd almost be mirrors. Sidequests stopped being good long before DA hit the scene with BioWare. 

[NextGenCowboy]

You don't like collecting teh IronbarK?

 

There were some solid quest, there was the elven couple, the quest for the husband, and the quest related to disturbing the graves. There was also Wynne's really mediocre personal quest, trekking back into the forest due to a note you found (or a Mage's Collective bag quest), and the aforementioned Ironbark. Also, talking to the Hala.

 

Origins primary advantage in terms of quest, at least in my eyes, was that there was actual interactivity for a good chunk of them. Real NPCs, and, as is almost always the case, the camera angle gives a sense you're talking to a NPC who is unique, with their own personality. That said, let's also not act like Origins only contained epic questlines, with no fetching or annoyances involved. Trekking back and forth because some random person needs 10 Garnette, or running around picking up Corpse Gall isn't very engaging. The issue is when the bulk of quest become, or at the very least feel like, the Chanter's Board, or Mage's Collective quest, instead of ones with unique NPCs.

[DarkKnightHolmes]

Those were just more of the same boring fetch-quests people complain about in DA:I. I can't remember 10 side quests from the Brecilian Forest, let alone 10 decent ones. 

 

Hmm, if a side quests in DAI ends with me sleeping with a guys crush and then going back to him to tell him I banged her (His reaction is priceless) or going up to the crush and telling her the guy called her a b!tch  then I'll consider them anywhere near as entertaining as DAO. Or a side quest where you find an unconscious elf on the ground, steal his stuff, take him back to camp and then tell him you stole his junk just to see him getting mad at you. Or how about lying to Halla lady by saying the Halla is ill so she will kill him just so you can get a free amulet which you can then trade with the old man in the forest (SHOCKER! A side quest help you in the main story).

 

Also the reason you can't remember 10 decent one's from the forest is because the place only had 8, not 10!

 

In DAI side quests are just:

1) run somewhere

2) kill that or collect this item from the floor

3) The end!

 

At least give us variations to do them. Crime wave was fun because you could do in so many ways, dealing with snobby nobles and tricking them into doing stupid things like taking their clothes or forcing a bunch of guards to chase a little kid.

 

They may be fetch quest but at least they were funny so I'll gladly take quests like those over collect 10 ram meat.

 

Fetch quest in DAO didn't last longer than 10 minutes so I never got sick of them.

[Br3admax]

Hmm, if a side quests in DAI ends with me sleeping with a guys crush and then going back to him to tell him I banged her (His reaction is priceless) or going up to the crush and telling her the guy called her a b!tch  then I'll consider them anywhere near as entertaining as DAO. 

If that's the bar you judge something as entertaining by, then all the power to you. I think sleeping with an elf just to prove I can, because no one sees my mary sue PC being able to do that, is pointless and very largely forgettable. Random never mentioned again sex had to be one of the worst side quests in DA:O. That's if I want to pretend 30 seconds total of dialogue, and only dialogue, to turn in a wolf pelt I got at Ostagar is a side quest. 

 

Ironically it's **** like this that the Witcher was ragged on for. 

[Hiemoth]

I do think the Dark Energy idea is not that great. And I do think it is way, way better than the actual ending. 

 

Fair enough, I still prefer the original to those. Of course, I don't have the problem with the current endings as some, so take that what you will.

 

My central point, though, is that there is a certain tendency of canonize single individuals associated projects if they left it at the right time, completely ignoring that games in the scale DA are group efforts. What this leads to is somehow making that indivudal central to the franchise and the person keeping it together, which to repeat myself is insulting to the members of the team. Drew K., for example, had some really controversial for ME3, which I personally feel would have been at least as controversial than the current endings.

 

The same with Brent Knowles, who has been painted as the true visionary of the DA project, which is not true in anyway. Since his ideas did not line up with the other people in the project, who had been as instrumental in building DAO to what it was, they parted ways. It is not rare in creative projects. Yet now because of that everything in it is attributed to him. At the same time, when Jennifer Hepler, who was one of the central writers associated with memorable sequences with DAO, left the project, her departure was seen as someone detrimental to the project leaving despite her being as important to the success of DAO than Knowles.

[DarkKnightHolmes]

If that's the bar you judge something as entertaining by, then all the power to you. I think sleeping with an elf just to prove I can, because no one sees my mary sue PC being able to do that, is pointless and very largely forgettable. Random never mentioned again sex had to be one of the worst side quests in DA:O. That's if I want to pretend 30 seconds total of dialogue, and only dialogue, to turn in a wolf pelt I got at Ostagar is a side quest. 

 

Ironically it's **** like this that the Witcher was ragged on for. 

 

You're playing an RPG and the main character, they'll always be a Mary Sue character. Majority of people don't want to play a character that gets bossed around or beaten up by somebody else. And every time a game has the main character being bossed or beaten by anyone, everyone whines about not being in control of their character. You can't have it both ways.

 

And yeah, I rather have a minute of funny dialogue than just killing stuff.

[AlanC9]

I do think the Dark Energy idea is not that great. And I do think it is way, way better than the actual ending.

Hmm. Better how? Most of the typical complaints about the existing endings -- immoral final choices, irrational Reaper plan, space magic, and so forth -- are just as bad or worse in the dark energy outline. What problem did you have with the existing endings that DE solved?

[Magdalena11]

I can't compare it to other games, because I really don't play them.  I will say that I think the game is so big on so many levels, it's really tough to appreciate all the work the devs put into it in a single playthrough.  Some things probably sounded good on paper, but were less than ideal as people started playing.  I can't imagine they anticipated the amount of stress that people were already under, and this made some things worse than they could have been.  I can only assume that's the case for shards and the whole Wicked Eyes, Wicked Hearts quest line, and the timer on Champions and Hakkon.  I really can't imagine why someone would think having an inanimate object nagging them for something they could do nothing about  was fun.  It was a mistake, and if I hadn't seen they repeated it in DLC, I'd figure they'd corrected it.  Some folks see the value in those quests, and I suppose I'm wrong, but the point is that as far as I'm concerned, it's just sadism.  I put up with the stupid stress because there are aspects of the game I like, and there really are few stresses I can't survive without anyone knowing there was a problem.
 

Like most people my age, I've lived, and during that time, a lot of bad stuff has happened, most of it thought up by someone else.  I will never be able to accept taking a hit for something that wasn't my fault in something I do for fun.  That's pretty much it.  If it's my duty or it helps someone else, I have never given it a second thought, but this is a game.  I don't want to feel awful for not living up to expectations in a fantasy world.  If I selected a dialog choice, and it annoyed someone, fine.  I said it.  If my eyes are too bad to see in the dark, or frankly, if I'm shell-shocked and I feel like I'm running around hopelessly because I'm being kept in the dark on purpose with maps that don't work, I'm going to be ANGRY.  I'm not going to look at what I did or didn't do, I'm going to say I wasn't given the information I needed to make an informed choice and resent it.  Period.

[AlanC9]

Some of us like having stress in the games. It's a RP thing.