32 réponses à ce sujet

[rayvioletta]

ok sitting in judgement over people is a fun little idea, but why restrict it to consequences of our own actions? it'd be great if there were some random situations thrown in as well, both with criminals unrelated to our own quests randomly being brought before us now and then or decisions such as King Solomon or Sancho Panza face during their famous stories. things like this can really make the world feel more alive and like more is going on in it than just what we directly interact with

 

plus it's great opportunity for more character development, humour and interesting stories

[thats1evildude]

I think they tied judgements to your actions largely because then you don't need an explanation of the context of their crimes. I'm all too aware of what Livius Erimond or Knight-Captain Denam did to earn my wrath, for instance.

[rayvioletta]

fair point, but it would still take only a couple lines of dialogue at most for a summary, perhaps with an option to ask for more details

[King Killoth]

I like this idea and would love it. they did this in Awakening with the Warden. I would love to see more judgments and with more options available. like dealing with bickering farmers about a cow or something. just little things that would make the world feel more alive.

[Toasted Llama]

I think they tied judgements to your actions largely because then you don't need an explanation of the context of their crimes. I'm all too aware of what Livius Erimond or Knight-Captain Denam did to earn my wrath, for instance.

This is true for the larger criminals, but small criminals don't necessarily need sidequests or something like that to indicate their crimes.

Would've been nice if they did this, also allowed you to develop your Inquisitor on a moral level more specifically. For example, if you had a character with a Fenris mind-set, you'd judge slavers more harshly and other crimes much less harsh, but right now I don't believe there's enough people to judge to make a distinct difference in how you judge certain crimes.

[PsychoBlonde]

I'd like it a lot if you had to help resolve actual organizational problems.  If there aren't Inquisition members threatening to kill each other over stupid **** then it's not remotely like any organization involving people that I've ever seen.  Some great "he said/she said" stuff would have really made the Inquisition seem like an actual group.  I mean, they had 3 departments, there should have been tons of bickering--and Cullen subplot was about him being seriously debilitated by his lyrium addiction.  Where were the soldiers complaining about getting disciplined because he sent them completely illegible orders at 3am and they blew up a bridge that he meant them to repair?

 

Heck, where were the discipline problems in general?!

[In Exile]

Dragon Age: Justice System simulator sounds great. Feel like an Inquisitor by spending hours reading lenghty and largely incoherent affidavits, hear days of live testimony, only to render a decision that makes everyone feel like a miscarriage of justice happened. 

 

I'd like it a lot if you had to help resolve actual organizational problems.  If there aren't Inquisition members threatening to kill each other over stupid **** then it's not remotely like any organization involving people that I've ever seen.  Some great "he said/she said" stuff would have really made the Inquisition seem like an actual group.  I mean, they had 3 departments, there should have been tons of bickering--and Cullen subplot was about him being seriously debilitated by his lyrium addiction.  Where were the soldiers complaining about getting disciplined because he sent them completely illegible orders at 3am and they blew up a bridge that he meant them to repair?

 

Heck, where were the discipline problems in general?!

 

The day Bioware produces a game that shows an understands logistics or organizational management is the day hell freezes over. I'm just saying. 

[dgcatanisiri]

I wish we had more judgements - let's take some members of the Freemen of the Dales into custody, get more about them and their conflict. As it stands now, they're just faceless mooks who aren't Venatori and aren't red templars. If they put in this third faction, why not explore and utilize it?

 

But yeah, the judgements are great for really feeling the weight of the Inquisition, how this organization is now a power in Thedas and dictates the survival of individuals across the nation. I really want more of these.

[Sartoz]

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Maybe I misunderstood the reason for the sudden appearance of the Inquisition, which is to deal with a much larger problem.

 

That problem is (but Bio failed to properly deliver, imo):

 

1. Demons are entering the Thedas Realm from the Fade and must be stopped

2. Civil war in Orlais

3. Templar - Mage conflict

4. The dissolution of the Chantry's Power and callapse of order.

 

The above, to me, is the area for improvements.

 

On the other hand:

Bio's implementation of the Throne and Judgement(s) scenarios, as it currently stands, is weak. I saw no "bite me in the ass" consequence for making a poor judgement nor a " boss, that was a shrewed call... it payed a large dividend".  While the "sit in judgement" plot was supposedly  a means to project the growing power of the Inquisition,  the execution of the judgment resulted in a meh moment!  I mean, did any of the powerful rulers communicate with the Inquisition expressing their "concerns" or "alarm" regarding the growing power of the Inquisition?  

 

This Throne and Judgement plot to come alive,  Bio needs to give us feedback cut scenes from various affected citizentry, foreign rulers and from  our three advisors. Adding additional judgements would also help. But, proper feedback is the key, imo.

 

 

[King Killoth]

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On the other hand:

Bio's implementation of the Throne and Judgement(s) scenarios, as it currently stands, is weak. I saw no "bite me in the ass" consequence for making a poor judgement nor a " boss, that was a shrewed call... it payed a large dividend".  While the "sit in judgement" plot was supposedly  a means to project the growing power of the Inquisition,  the execution of the judgment resulted in a meh moment!  I mean, did any of the powerful rulers communicate with the Inquisition expressing their "concerns" or "alarm" regarding the growing power of the Inquisition?  

 

This Throne and Judgement plot to come alive,  Bio needs to give us feedback cut scenes from various affected citizentry, foreign rulers and from  our three advisors. Adding additional judgements would also help. But, proper feedback is the key, imo.

I agree I would have like my advisers to comment on the case brought to the Inquisitor. like have the advisers each have their own choice and little synapse of why they thing you should chose one of their choices but still having you have the option to pick our own judgment and after they would have a chat about how the choice you made effects the world. I would also have liked the cases to have lawyers some one to pleas their case and present evidence for their claims

[Gileadan]

I found the judgments to be a mixed bag. Some are hilarious like Morvan and his goats or "the box", some felt appropriate like ex-templar Denam, and some were rather meh like Florianne or Erimond if executed. It has a kind of ego deflating effect when the person you judge just shrugs and says something along the lines of "oh, that's the best you can do?"

[Sartoz]

I agree I would have like my advisers to comment on the case brought to the Inquisitor. like have the advisers each have their own choice and little synapse of why they thing you should chose one of their choices but still having you have the option to pick our own judgment and after they would have a chat about how the choice you made effects the world. I would also have liked the cases to have lawyers some one to pleas their case and present evidence for their claims

 

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And here lies the problem with this game. You, I and others are discussing true RPG game elements. Whereas, this game , from the outset, is a console design. As such it caters to the casual gamers plus the console players. EA's senior management philosophy is to design games for easy learning.  Thus, the game pacing, avoidance of complex combat = gutting the mage spells.

 

CD Projekt RED stuck to their guns and launched a very successful RPG game with their W3 ( four million sold so far).  Seems to me, given the right game Lore,  a true RPG can be well received by the PC and console communities and dispells  EA's notion that games must be designed for simple gameply.

[Captain Wiseass]

The day Bioware produces a game that shows an understands logistics or organizational management is the day hell freezes over. I'm just saying. 

On the other hand, who actually wants to play a game where you do nothing but read reports, sign off on forms, and clean up other people's ****-ups?

[King Killoth]

                                                                                                     <<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>

 

And here lies the problem with this game. You, I and others are discussing true RPG game elements. Whereas, this game , from the outset, is a console design. As such it caters to the casual gamers plus the console players. EA's senior management philosophy is to design games for easy learning.  Thus, the game pacing, avoidance of complex combat = gutting the mage spells.

 

CD Projekt RED stuck to their guns and launched a very successful RPG game with their W3 ( four million sold so far).  Seems to me, given the right game Lore,  a true RPG can be well received by the PC and console communities and dispells  EA's notion that games must be designed for simple gameply.

I have to disagree with you on this point. I think the true failing of Dragon age is not that it is on the console is that it is on the ps3 and xbox360. by being shackled to these older consoles they needed to cut out large parts of the game as to run smoother on the older generation consoles. if DAI was souly on next gen and pc it would have been a fare better and more complex game as they could have left in all the content that would not have worked on the older consoles. now Don't get me wrong I love the witcher games and it shows how much time and effort they put into it but you have to understand that these are two entirely separate companies that have no influence on what the other dose as far as development. I think once we stop making games for the last gen consoles we will really start to see what DA games can really be.

[Captain Wiseass]

Do true Scotsmen play true RPGs?

[Sartoz]

I have to disagree with you on this point. I think the true failing of Dragon age is not that it is on the console is that it is on the ps3 and xbox360. by being shackled to these older consoles they needed to cut out large parts of the game as to run smoother on the older generation consoles. if DAI was souly on next gen and pc it would have been a fare better and more complex game as they could have left in all the content that would not have worked on the older consoles. now Don't get me wrong I love the witcher games and it shows how much time and effort they put into it but you have to understand that these are two entirely separate companies that have no influence on what the other dose as far as development. I think once we stop making games for the last gen consoles we will really start to see what DA games can really be.

 

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No question that the old gen consoles hobbled DAI. Perhaps, ME4 can show us what Bio can do since the game is developed only for the PC and new gen hardware. But, keep in mind that pretty graphics does not a game make. Game design, pacing, story, humour, UI, proper device controls and combat mechanics will be key areas for the single player. If Bio can add co-op as in ME3, that's a plus. The MP portion with its micro$trasactions will force the player into grinding quests to obtain better gear or pay for it.

[Basement Cat]

I'd like it a lot if you had to help resolve actual organizational problems.  If there aren't Inquisition members threatening to kill each other over stupid **** then it's not remotely like any organization involving people that I've ever seen.  Some great "he said/she said" stuff would have really made the Inquisition seem like an actual group.  I mean, they had 3 departments, there should have been tons of bickering--and Cullen subplot was about him being seriously debilitated by his lyrium addiction.  Where were the soldiers complaining about getting disciplined because he sent them completely illegible orders at 3am and they blew up a bridge that he meant them to repair?

 

Heck, where were the discipline problems in general?!

Dragon Age has always had that kind of problem: fluff over crunch. The Wardens are largely recruited by force and yet they have a desertion rate of zero, even when Clarel goes off the deep end in DAI. Really? Only one man questioned her decision? Everyone else fell in line like that? Even the non mages?

 

We have no idea where our funds come from (except for one optional war table mission). Money and being able to pay our soldiers/staff is never a concern in DAI. Sabotage is never a concern. Traitors are never a concern. Losing many troops/spies/diplomats due to bad decisions/being outmanoeuvred is never a concern.

 

Being the leader of an organization is largely window dressing. It's a standard RPG with a badass protagonist who saves the world from the big bad and everybody lives happily ever after. We happen to have a fancy title to go with it.

 

I mean, how different would it have been if we'd had counters to indicate how many soldiers/scouts/spies/etc. we have, and after a bad decision we saw that number go way down? What if some people abandon us because we are rejecting the 'Herald of Andraste' thing? Some people would complain that it limits their RPing, but I would say that it's a great RP choice: do you go against your beliefs to gain an advantage, or do you stick to them even when that leaves you in a precarious position?

 

But no. All you need to beat the game is good gear and a high level. Being the Inquisitor is purely cosmetic. Which is a bit of a shame, really.

[Captain Wiseass]

Anders deserted.

[Basement Cat]

Anders deserted.

He was doing that before he was a Warden, and even so he's just one guy. Their sudden decision to go 'kill half of us to bind demons' should have had way more opposition than it did.

[SardaukarElite]

I mean, how different would it have been if we'd had counters to indicate how many soldiers/scouts/spies/etc. we have, and after a bad decision we saw that number go way down? What if some people abandon us because we are rejecting the 'Herald of Andraste' thing? Some people would complain that it limits their RPing, but I would say that it's a great RP choice: do you go against your beliefs to gain an advantage, or do you stick to them even when that leaves you in a precarious position?

 

I think there's a lot of potential in this line of thought. When you couple the morale choices with some strategy component then it becomes a new way to choose and actually fight for what's really important to your character. There's also an interesting risk-reward dynamic we're you're sort of gambling how many ideals you want to preserve against the world eating threat of the week.

[Basement Cat]

I think there's a lot of potential in this line of thought. When you couple the morale choices with some strategy component then it becomes a new way to choose and actually fight for what's really important to your character. There's also an interesting risk-reward dynamic we're you're sort of gambling how many ideals you want to preserve against the world eating threat of the week.

It would certainly add weight to some of the decisions. If you have to sacrifice something to get a result, how far will you go?

 

The closest we get to that in the game is the choice between the mages and templars. Picking one prevents you from getting the other and gives a different antagonist. That was neat! The only problem is that it happened only once in the game. It's the only meaningful choice. If the game had branched out to different quests for each major decision (mages-templars, Ruler of Orlais and Wardens decision), it could have added some depth.

 

As it is the only difference is in the epilogue slides. 

 

The companions having plot armor weakened the decisions too. If done well, character deaths can be very poignant. If the weight of the world rests on my shoulders, I want to feel it dammit! Telltale's the Walking Dead 1 really, really nailed the 'tough choices' mechanic.

[Winged Silver]

I really liked this feature! I'd love to see more of it, further expanded upon. It seems like a good opportunity to bring in more elements of character development, as you said, as well as one way for the devs to showcase what the populace thinks of the Inquisition (like if you're getting riots, you may not be doing a very good job, whereas if someone does something for you with the best intentions (e.g. stealing food to donate to the troops), but still breaks the law doing it, then you're doing something right. And you get the moral dilemma of judgement).

 

If it works with the protagonist they have in mind for the future games, I hope we get to see this feature again.

[Saphiron123]

I enjoyed the judgements, it's too bad there were so few.

[rayvioletta]

also disapointing that Jaws of Hakkon only had one Judgement, even if it was a really great one

[ThePhoenixKing]

He was doing that before he was a Warden, and even so he's just one guy. Their sudden decision to go 'kill half of us to bind demons' should have had way more opposition than it did.

 

Again, Inquisition's plot and conflicts require the constant employment of Idiot Balls in order to function, so that's nothing out of the ordinary, regrettably.

 

Getting back on topic, I kinda like the judgement system in this game. I loved the "Day At Court" quest in Awakening, and this feels like an extension of it. The judgements were also one of the few times were I felt that the Inquisition was convincingly portrayed as a legitimate power.