242 réponses à ce sujet

[scynn]

I feel like destroying the only (active) ability that makes the Arcane Warrior different from all the other mages is kinda pointless. It's not even what makes him over powered or better than all the other classes for survivability.  I tried it out today, and while I do have a decent amount of promotions, I was still able to solo Perilous dragons with FC FS SF and SB. It took a little longer, but that's all. I kind of like that I never have mana issues, because with the 20 cost if Resto Veil didn't proc (which I've had it not quite a bit) I would sometimes find myself taking cover. I've tried the FC FS CL SF loadout and while I could still solo perilous, it just feels unnatural to play AW without SB :/

[jeremyj26]

Do the math mate!

It cost now 5... And does 150% damage...

It costed 20 and does 300% damage...

 

So now you can swing it four times for a total of 600% damage instead of once for 300%...

 

It makes it a lot harder to generate barrier though.

[jeremyj26]

Nerfed Duelist, but not the Virtuoso? Are you kidding? He's more OP than she is. What are you guys doing?

 

Powercord is spammable. Cost is next to nothing with all the mana regen he has. It does 400% to EVERYTHING that's close to him, AND keeps his Barrier full. Why not nerf that ability a bit?

 

You don't see too many Duelists soloing content, but everyone's Virtuoso can solo anything.

 

I don't recall PC generating barrier.

[scynn]

I don't recall PC generating barrier.

There's a Passive in the first tree, I can't remember the name, but it generates 2% barrier per person near you when you play any song.

[Angelus_de_Mortiel]

550% includes the upgrade but the new 300% does not, which is why everyone was confused at first. The real change is that it has gone from 400+150 to 300+150, which seems fair.
I would like this but apparently he said on the stream the change was made because people were using bolt too much, so I don't that's going to happen. I think more people would consider replacing bolt if we had better alternatives for spreading vendetta, but nothing else really gets the job done.

 

I was wrong... It was 400% base, not 550%. Yes, the tooltip did, in fact, reflect the bonus damage like you said. I would point out, however, that the math for that did not add up. Instead, the math support the bonus as the Bonus Damage multiplier like it was supposed to.

 

In regards to Luke not liking how Bolt was being used, I submit this quote:

 

"I think that with a logical enough statement, made clearly enough by unified voices, can change the mind of any man."

 

Luke, and other devs there, may hold the belief that Bolt was not intended as a ranged basic attack that spreads Vendetta, but a large degree of the community sees it that way. My proposal is to roll with that all the way: Make is a ranged basic attack (doing normal basic attack damage) while costing a tiny amount of stamina as compensation for applying the Vendetta. It's fair, balanced, and really accentuates the unique potential of the Duelist.

 

 

Then maybe they should have upped its stamina cost. Lowering the damage sucks. Besides, if it's useless for damage, they might has well have made it a melee ability that just marks people. Even with great daggers, its damage wasn't insane.

 

No... Upping the stamina cost would have made it useless. Having a high stamina cost yet no cool down would be quite contradictory. As you claim yourself, the low damage of Bolt would not merit higher stamina cost anyway. It is a ranged basic attack at it's core, with the exception that it applies Vendetta, and really they should accentuate that to it's fullest.

 

Bingo. She's a duelist.  Her area of expertise is melee, not ranged.

 

The two most popular duelist archetypes were from Renaissance and the Wild West, in which the pistol was the weapon of choice. However, even taking away from that, dueling is simply two people fighting, and there is really no specification on the weapon used.

So, no, being a duelist means that you are engaging in one-on-one combat. Crossbow, swords, fists... If it can be honed into a weapon used to defeat an opponent in a duel, then you can be sure Isabella has done so.

[Catastrophy]

Hooray for the Gangway!

[BansheeOwnage]

I feel like destroying the only (active) ability that makes the Arcane Warrior different from all the other mages is kinda pointless.

I agree completely.

 

 

No... Upping the stamina cost would have made it useless. Having a high stamina cost yet no cool down would be quite contradictory. As you claim yourself, the low damage of Bolt would not merit higher stamina cost anyway. It is a ranged basic attack at it's core, with the exception that it applies Vendetta, and really they should accentuate that to it's fullest.

I didn't say they should up it to oblivion. It costs 15. Make it cost 20. Something like that. If they're going to lower damage they should lower cost too, but I much prefer it as it is... or was.

[Broganisity]

Anyone else suspicious of the [Reserved] post?

[Drasanil]

Anyone else suspicious of the [Reserved] post?

 

I'm not! I think it'll be good news, but I'm just purposefully thinking that... on purpose 

[Dekibra]

Anyone else suspicious of the [Reserved] post?

 

No, he said something about posting the weekly balance changes in one pinned post, so he wanted the second post to be his as well to store the "old" balance changes there

[Dieb]

I don't know what the problem with the Duelist is really, other than the usual routine of people getting used to a certain amount of power.

 

In all matches I've played with an at least halfways competent player, the Duelist was singlehandedly destroying everything in record time, with seldomly any health lost.

 

Also don't forget how incredibly durable she is. It's a nerf for sure, but she's still an incredibly versatile character with extreme damage output and high survivability.

 

I feel like destroying the only (active) ability that makes the Arcane Warrior different from all the other mages is kinda pointless.

 

The idea behind that is the exact opposite of what you fear.

 

You lower the damage, yet severely reduce the cost; hence making it even more his unique basic attack. I reckon this is how they intended it to be all along, since the AW used to simply be a mage that whields weapons instead of a staff.

 

 

In conclusion it all boils down to this in my very personal and humble opinion:

The Arcane Warrior and the Duelist are singularily more powerful than other classes, without great gear and promotions most importantly, and as long as that is the case, something is off. This is a coop game, not "coop unless you don't want to, in this case, play with these". The idea of "well, they're supposed to be OP and carry the team, what's the harm if it isn't PvP" doesn't apply in balacing, otherwise you just boost everyone's abilities to infinity, because why the heck not. In reality, there are no roles in this game other than dealing damage. Every character is supposed to do damage, or otherwise they are considered useless by the community - so there really only is one grade to measure by. The balancing is an effort to make every character equally deadly, for the sake of itself.

[Dick Dastardly]

I don't know what the problem with the Duelist is really, other than the usual routine of people getting used to a certain amount of power.

In all matches I've played with an at least halfways competent player, the Duelist was singlehandedly destroying everything in record time, with seldomly any health lost.

Also don't forget how incredibly durable she is. It's a nerf for sure, but she's still an incredibly versatile character with extreme damage output and high survivability.

broadside is still pretty good but I can see people switching to keelhaul now. In any case she is still very powerful as you have mentioned, I just hope they dont nerf Flashing steel

[apocalypse_owl]

I feel like destroying the only (active) ability that makes the Arcane Warrior different from all the other mages is kinda pointless. 

 

Fade Shield is that ability, not Spirit Blade.

[konfeta]

Fade Shield is that ability, not Spirit Blade.

 

 

 

the only (active) ability

[Redalertixii]

Yeah, no. She has an entire skill tree dedicated to ranged attacks. If that's not expertise, I don't know what is.

I agree with you on the abilities. They made an additional focus on ranged. What I wasn't clear about and what I meant was her expertise as a character. In DA:O and DA2 she was the best duelist in Thedas or whatever. It was a nice addition to her to really differentiate her from an assassin to give her a ranged focus, but she's still a duelist though. So the way people seemed to play her was to use her ranged abilities to defeat enemies maybe 40% of the time Because they were so great. That's just what I saw. I think there were plenty of times we've all abused the hell out of bolt to take out enemies rather than rely more on her melee abilities. I feel like the developers are just trying to make her melee more appealing and bring ranged killings to like 30% (obviously just making these percentages up). The point is to increase the ratio of melee use to ranged. How it will actually change gameplay remains to be seen.

[scynn]

Fade Shield is that ability, not Spirit Blade.

Right, the following sentence was in reference to Fade Shield. I just didn't spell it out incase they decide to punish us and nerf that too D=. That's why I said "active" ability. Spirit Blade at 300% did good damage for the range/speed and it was enough to keep your barrier up unless you had a firing squad of archers on your back, or Despair Demons dancing around  you. If it did the damage it did now but maybe swung faster or gave bonus barrier generation, but as it is right now, it's actually better to just use FC FS CL SF and use your basic staff attack. Which...would be ok if the idea behind the Arcane Warrior wasn't to be a sort of close quarters mage. In the end though, I'll still be that guy using spirit blade in a puddle of bodies, swinging away for days.

[Felis Menari]

Right, the following sentence was in reference to Fade Shield. I just didn't spell it out incase they decide to punish us and nerf that too D=. That's why I said "active" ability. Spirit Blade at 300% did good damage for the range/speed and it was enough to keep your barrier up unless you had a firing squad of archers on your back, or Despair Demons dancing around  you. If it did the damage it did now but maybe swung faster or gave bonus barrier generation, but as it is right now, it's actually better to just use FC FS CL SF and use your basic staff attack. Which...would be ok if the idea behind the Arcane Warrior wasn't to be a sort of close quarters mage. In the end though, I'll still be that guy using spirit blade in a puddle of bodies, swinging away for days.

I would still be using Spirit Blade as well (I love melee/magic character and skill combos), but it's basically been nerfed to the point of irrelevance

[Broganisity]

No, he said something about posting the weekly balance changes in one pinned post, so he wanted the second post to be his as well to store the "old" balance changes there

[scynn]

I would still be using Spirit Blade as well (I love melee/magic character and skill combos), but it's basically been nerfed to the point of irrelevance

It's still useable, but again, it requires top gear and promotion investment. I did a FC Peri solo run with using Fade Cloak and Step, Chain Lightning and Stonefist, followed by another run replacing Chain Lightning with Spirit Blade. I felt way more comfortable with Spirit Blade, maybe just cause I'm use to it, and both runs took the same amount of time, and same amount of difficulty. The main thing I find is people undervalue Deflecting Blade alot. While it isn't super reliable, you can Chain Lightning a group and get full barrier, only to have it stripped off a second later by a group of archers while you're staff attacking. With Spirit Blade, there's a good chance you'll knock a few arrows back, saving your own barrier as well as building off the damage returned to the archer.

[Felis Menari]

It's still useable, but again, it requires top gear and promotion investment. I did a FC Peri solo run with using Fade Cloak and Step, Chain Lightning and Stonefist, followed by another run replacing Chain Lightning with Spirit Blade. I felt way more comfortable with Spirit Blade, maybe just cause I'm use to it, and both runs took the same amount of time, and same amount of difficulty. The main thing I find is people undervalue Deflecting Blade alot. While it isn't super reliable, you can Chain Lightning a group and get full barrier, only to have it stripped off a second later by a group of archers while you're staff attacking. With Spirit Blade, there's a good chance you'll knock a few arrows back, saving your own barrier as well as building off the damage returned to the archer.

Reflecting blade is definitely useful, but Spirit Blade itself needs to stand on its own as a useful ability. Right now, it doesn't. There are some specific situations in which it's still useful (enemies weak to spirit, and as you mentioned, reflecting projectiles with the upgrade, but it's not difficult to flub a deflection attempt with arrows coming at you). And an active skill requiring top gear and a great amount of promotions in order to remain viable...that doesn't seem wrong to you?

[scynn]

I don't know what the problem with the Duelist is really, other than the usual routine of people getting used to a certain amount of power.

 

In all matches I've played with an at least halfways competent player, the Duelist was singlehandedly destroying everything in record time, with seldomly any health lost.

 

Also don't forget how incredibly durable she is. It's a nerf for sure, but she's still an incredibly versatile character with extreme damage output and high survivability.

 

 

The idea behind that is the exact opposite of what you fear.

 

You lower the damage, yet severely reduce the cost; hence making it even more his unique basic attack. I reckon this is how they intended it to be all along, since the AW used to simply be a mage that whields weapons instead of a staff.

 

 

In conclusion it all boils down to this in my very personal and humble opinion:

The Arcane Warrior and the Duelist are singularily more powerful than other classes, without great gear and promotions most importantly, and as long as that is the case, something is off. This is a coop game, not "coop unless you don't want to, in this case, play with these". The idea of "well, they're supposed to be OP and carry the team, what's the harm if it isn't PvP" doesn't apply in balacing, otherwise you just boost everyone's abilities to infinity, because why the heck not. In reality, there are no roles in this game other than dealing damage. Every character is supposed to do damage, or otherwise they are considered useless by the community - so there really only is one grade to measure by. The balancing is an effort to make every character equally deadly, for the sake of itself.

The only problem with making it more in line with a basic attack, is generally when you're using your staff, you don't have a horde of melee enemies slapping you around. That's the problem; when you're using Spirit Blade you're in the thick of the battle, meaning your more likely taking more damage than if you stayed at range and used your staff. Therefore, Spirit Blade generating the same amount of barrier as a basic attack isn't a good design. I'm ok with it being on par damage wise, but I feel it should somehow give you more barrier or do something as to midigate the higher risk you're generally in while using it.

 

As to your point about this being a co-op game, you're right. Except, it's a co-op game with very little co-op. Everyone just wants to be a DPS on the top of the charts, so that's why you see Zithers spamming Power Cord as their group dies, or Keepers just barriering themselves in a corner (granted PUGs never stick near me when I'm on my keeper and sometimes I get annoyed having to chase them down). It really comes down to that the Arcane Warrior is selfsufficent, and with Elusive management so is Isabella. That's why I play them, the fact they do good damage (AW not so much) is just a plus. I feel like instead of nerfing the good kits, they need to just rework the old ones. I think DAIMP could have been epically fun had they modeled it less off of D3 and more off or FFXIV or WoW. Make the Lego and Templar actual tanks, with proper taunt/defense mechanics, and keeper/zither with more support elements (perhaps up support XP so people can still chase the charts) and maybe even buff up the enemies, but make it less horde mode. That way Crowd Control becomes viable, and stuff like Sleeping Powder might actually be useful since everything isn't immediatly 1 shot after you cast it.

[scynn]

Reflecting blade is definitely useful, but Spirit Blade itself needs to stand on its own as a useful ability. Right now, it doesn't. There are some specific situations in which it's still useful (enemies weak to spirit, and as you mentioned, reflecting projectiles with the upgrade, but it's not difficult to flub a deflection attempt with arrows coming at you). And an active skill requiring top gear and a great amount of promotions in order to remain viable...that doesn't seem wrong to you?

Oh, it absolutely seem wrong to me. Maybe it was another thread I posted it, but the nerf really affects new players the most. Howerever, the Arcane Warrior isn't suppose to demolish things, he's a damage sponge. If you look at how it was in DA:O, you didn't really do alot of damage, but you were immortal (not that I want him to be immortal in DAIMP, cuz boring).  

 

When Spirit Blade was 300% damage and 10 mana, you could pretty much just spam it and slice through anything but heavys on Perilous (and even then, you kinda still could). I agree with you it should stand on it's own, but I don't think it should be because it obliterates people. It should be a replacement for your basic attack that syngergizes with the rest of the kit, not completely overshadow it.

[monicasubzero]

I was thinking: when someone is already reviving a teammate who's dead, the revive button should disappear, so that nobody will stop and try to revive the same teammate, because he/she doesn't see that there's already someone there and gets killed in the meanwhile. If I recall correctly, in ME3MP the revive button wasn't appearing. 

I'm not sure this is the right place to make this suggestion, but maybe it can be included in the next patch.

[Felis Menari]

Oh, it absolutely seem wrong to me. Maybe it was another thread I posted it, but the nerf really affects new players the most. Howerever, the Arcane Warrior isn't suppose to demolish things, he's a damage sponge. If you look at how it was in DA:O, you didn't really do alot of damage, but you were immortal (not that I want him to be immortal in DAIMP, cuz boring).  

 

When Spirit Blade was 300% damage and 10 mana, you could pretty much just spam it and slice through anything but heavys on Perilous (and even then, you kinda still could). I agree with you it should stand on it's own, but I don't think it should be because it obliterates people. It should be a replacement for your basic attack that syngergizes with the rest of the kit, not completely overshadow it.

SB actually did 400% damage (the upgrade gave it an extra 100%). At 300% damage, and with the bonus protection damage no longer being massive, SB should be fine damage wise. Up the cost to 15, and it should still be usable while not being too spammable.

[Quintinw]

Personally, i feel like if they brought back spirit blade to 250% with a 20 mana cost, it would be perfectly balanced.