242 réponses à ce sujet

[scynn]

That wouldn't be a very reasonable assumption considering that izzy's only crit rate increasing mechanism is hot streak, which doesn't work on bolt.  I think he probably just forgot and thought it was the same cost as spirit blade.

 

Fair, but she does have some +Cun in her kit. Also depends on what gear you're using (Crit rings, Cun Amulet, +Crit on weapons ect), how many promotions you have. I'm not supporting his claim, just pointing out that's probably where he came up with 10-15. I find alot of claims on these boards don't account for what their running vs someone whos just starting out, or doesn't no life this game.

 

Again, we come back to the whole balancing for new people and old players alike. As people promote more and attains better equipment, everything gets "overpowered". I remember my first few games as the Keeper, I thought Routie was hard. The other day, I soloed a Perilous dragon on my keeper from about 50%. Things change.

 

That said, I never found Bolt to do drastically amazing damage vs the energy cost, but I did think Broadside was a little redic. Generally if I tried to Bolt kill something on Peri I would end up wasting all my stamina, when I couldn't just walked over and 7k+'d it with Ambush.

[Ploidz]

Yeah bolt did not seem powerful even with the gear I had. I can only imagine how weak it was for people without high end gear. I didn't know people were also 2-3 shotting the grunts in Perilous but those people must have even better gear and promotions than me. And again, bolt frequently miss if the target is moving, and gets blocked on by the environment a lot.

 

I remember getting a level 21 or something great sword a week or month after launch and I felt my reaver was untouchable in Routine. He should have been nerfed then and there /sarcasm.

[scynn]

 

I remember getting a level 21 or something great sword a week or month after launch and I felt my reaver was untouchable in Routine. He should have been nerfed then and there /sarcasm.

 

Right? I remember when I bought my first large chest after struggling on my keeper for a few routine games, and got a lv20ish (either 21 or 23) grey bow out of the chest and thought I'd try out the Archer. I was one shotting everything on Routine (obviously) going THIS IS AMAZING HOW IS THIS NOT NERF? Good times.

[yarpenthemad21]

Few questions/bugs

1) Abilities with changed mana cost looks bugged. Game use good amount of mana but block using ability when we don't have "old value".
So Walking bomb cost 50, but I can't cast it when having 50, I need 65.
2) Hard to say it is bugg, I've haven't tested everything but it looks like some bugs with ability rings and changed abilities.

Looking at tooltip alone it shows strange things. For shield bash it's 400->500, on lunge ans slash it's 300->360. On explosive shot is 150->180. With explosive shot I'm pretty sure it boost for this 20% only, for other skills it seems the same.
So it appears to be calculated based on old values

[Jaden Erius]

Any hope of buffing blessed blades? Right now its very weak mainly cause its a huge inconvenience to cast and utilize cause of the small aoe, long cast time and CD and very small increment in damage (though the upgrade is good but cannot be utilized much cause the aoe doesnt follow the templar)

[TheThirdRace]

As for Bolt, it made it possible to kill almost anything in 2 or 3 shots in Perilous. That means that for 10 to 15 Stamina, you could kill just about anything. There are no abilities with no cooldown and such a low cost that can do this, it needed the nerf for that very reason.

Bolt costs 15 stamina per attack.

I'm guessing he's adjusting for the 10 stamina return after a crit.

Wow, I'm on a roll this weekend... I meant 15 Stamina per shot, not 5... 
 
Although, scoring a critical every 2 shots helps a lot to reduce the cost too with the Looked Like it Hurt passive (10 Stamina back after a critical hit). Even with no promotions, you easily get about 1 critical hit for every 3 shots with equipment so we could estimate the effective cost at 35 Stamina (3 x 15 - 10). Most of the time, the third shot is only needed if you were unlucky enough to not land a critical hit in the first 2 shots.

With that said, the conclusion is still the same. There are no abilities that kills about everything for 35 Stamina or less (on Perilous I might add) and has no cooldown whatsoever. Pair that ability (Bolt) with a special dagger like Audacity, Walking Death, Agony or Crescent Slicer and you have one hell of a combo. To top it off, because that wasn't enough already, the only ability Isabella has that takes into account the offhand dagger for damage is Flank Attack, which means that people that rely on Bolt this much don't use it so there is no downside to damage at all. It had to be brought down a bit, Isabella is still twice as efficient as the Arcane Warrior, even with a 25% nerf on Bolt.

[konfeta]

I'd need 3 crits back to back to kill a basic grunt on perilous pre-nerf.

[FRZN]

2) Hard to say it is bugg, I've haven't tested everything but it looks like some bugs with ability rings and changed abilities.

Looking at tooltip alone it shows strange things. For shield bash it's 400->500, on lunge ans slash it's 300->360. On explosive shot is 150->180. With explosive shot I'm pretty sure it boost for this 20% only, for other skills it seems the same.
So it appears to be calculated based on old values

The tooltips for abilities that have changed often don't show changes for any kind of gear (rings and cooldown amulet), such as immolate.  Many abilities that have not been changed are not boosted by the 30% in the ring description.  Static cage for example goes from 8s->14.5s (81%), while chain lighting goes from 250->300 (20%).  Walking bomb's explosion damage (unchanged) goes 600->683 (13%) while the dot damage was changed and goes from 150->233 (55%), which is the same flat +83% as the explosion.
The 30% mentioned in ring descriptions are completely unreliable, and I'm suspicious of most of the ability tooltips as well.
 

To top it off, because that wasn't enough already, the only ability Isabella has that takes into account the offhand dagger for damage is Flank Attack, which means that people that rely on Bolt this much don't use it so there is no downside to damage at all.

I think swashbuckle alternates, but I'm not 100% on that.

[Redalertixii]

You're reading way too much into it than the reality is. You believe she should use melee more so you mold Bioware's desires to your ideals.

The fact is, Isabella must use both range and melee attacks to realize her full potential. The degree at which you use range and melee attacks will vary, but you need both to make use of elusive coins.

The balanced Bioware introduced this week wasn't about what Isabella should be or not be, it was about some of her abilities. It's like saying the problem isn't the guns but how you use them.

Broadsides could kill 1 shot groups of 10 mobs, it was overpowered and it needed a nerf. It has nothing to do with whatever "role" Isabella should be playing.

As for Bolt, it made it possible to kill almost anything in 2 or 3 shots in Perilous. That means that for 10 to 15 Stamina, you could kill just about anything. There are no abilities with no cooldown and such a low cost that can do this, it needed the nerf for that very reason.

As you can see, the nerfs weren't about her role, but about what kind of damage output those 2 abilities were giving the player. They were too effective at what they did compared to everything else. It's still possible to play Isabella mostly at range while it's still possible to play her mostly melee, nothing has changed there, certainly not her role...

Ok, I might be expecting Bioware to make her playable too much as to what her role should be, which could be too narrow.  I'll concede and say I am reading too much into her role.  I do agree with the nerf and it was simply a thought that Bioware was trying to steer her to be more towards melee since it was how Isabela was in the series - an unmatched dual dagger wielding fighter.  I'll say it was just a simple adjustment on some abilities which were overpowered.

 

Completely agree. These people here have an idea of how they want to play Isabela, and they're just trying to ask for nerf on everything else until their way is the only way.

Not quite.  I wouldn't expect you to know how I play, but I made an earlier point saying we've all abused bolt, which includes myself.  I of course like many others exposed the bolt and broadside abilities for what they were - easy ways to deal significant damage and earn quick kills.

[Drasca]

There are no abilities that kills about everything for 35 Stamina or less (on Perilous I might add) and has no cooldown whatsoever.

 

I'm agreeing with your idea, just disputing some details here:

 

Parry Rofl I'm the only person that uses parry regularly afaik. Evade has next to no cooldown, and does ok damage too. Where we get really interesting is:

 

Power Chord (30 mana, not stamina mind you), no cooldown, potentially excellent damage, one shotting if detonating sleep.

 

PC is actually more efficient than Bolt is at close range. Bolt has range / versatility advantage of course, but PC can refresh itself for free due to Encore for spam after spam.

 

 

Isabella is still twice as efficient as the Arcane Warrior

 

Moreso. AW's blow chunks with introduction of Virtuoso. Barrier for everyone! AW too slow now that burst dps classes have easy survival.

[konfeta]

All 3 new classes honestly feel like power creep. They all can move fast, they all do absurd AoE damage, and their skill trees generally have way less garbage fat than other classes.

[yarpenthemad21]

The tooltips for abilities that have changed often don't show changes for any kind of gear (rings and cooldown amulet), such as immolate.  Many abilities that have not been changed are not boosted by the 30% in the ring description.  Static cage for example goes from 8s->14.5s (81%), while chain lighting goes from 250->300 (20%).  Walking bomb's explosion damage (unchanged) goes 600->683 (13%) while the dot damage was changed and goes from 150->233 (55%), which is the same flat +83% as the explosion.
The 30% mentioned in ring descriptions are completely unreliable, and I'm suspicious of most of the ability tooltips as well.

Still my tests on explosive shot (I was looking for "best" rings for hunter) showed it gives this 20% more damage (so as tooltip shows). I don't remember how it was before explosive shot buff.
And "my" theory that ring bonus is based on old values would explain why longshot ring was giving so much damage difference (after first huge nerf from 200% to 100%). If value is old, ring would add 66%, so from 100% it would change to 166%. Still it's only assumption here.

Rings need a patch just very much. Some works, some works strange, some works too good. Some has useless effect like duration for immolate and fire mine. They should give this 30% damage buff, because without it they aren't even close to crit damage rings. We need more options, not less.

[Da_Noobinator]

Parry Rofl I'm the only person that uses parry regularly afaik.

Is there any secret to using Parry? Or is it just good post buff?

[Drasca]

Is there any secret to using Parry? Or is it just good post buff?

 

Lots of critical chance and bonus damage, spam it when you think you're about to be melee'd. Its not OP, but it is pretty good in the right hands. Best for solo. In a team environment ambush is better, but solo (or all your allies died) Parry is spammable and everything targets you so there's a high chance it'll function. Parry has no cooldown, negates direct attacks, and counters for light-to-medium damage, has low stamina cost and even replenishes stamina upon success, and can even be used on the run. Highly spammable until other burst abilities are available.

 

Also funny to parry arrows, and parry the high dragon's bite & leg attacks. Her tail sweep seems to go through it though.

 

Parry isn't a high tier ability. It is low to middle-tier most of the time, and situationally high tier (solo).

 

Try it and have fun

[FRZN]

I like parry on my alchemist since I spend so much of my time with her auto attacking, although it still has a vulnerability window after the riposte so it's better against small numbers of enemies or in combination with flask of frost. It's also more reliable than going into stealth mid combat as enemies don't stop tracking you instantly.

[mmmidnight]

These weekly nerfs are the same type of thing they did to mass effect 3 multiplayer. They are taking the casual fun out and making the game for hard core players only. Ah well back to the single player. Shame I was liking damp for awhile.

[scynn]

These weekly nerfs are the same type of thing they did to mass effect 3 multiplayer. They are taking the casual fun out and making the game for hard core players only. Ah well back to the single player. Shame I was liking damp for awhile.

 

Virtuoso has made this game insanely more "casual friendly" so long as whoevers using it, uses it properly. The buff to the Katari, increases on damage to a lot of the rogue abilites and cooldown reduction on a lot of the tanky warrior abilites have also helped a lot, not to mention the guard buff.The only thing I can see hurting casuals is those who use the Arcane Warrior to play on higher difficulties, who may not have the best loadout to sustain a barrier, or haven't switched to the non-SB loadout.

[DrakeHasNoFlow]

I do enjoy these weekly class changes, it shows that bioware does indeed listen to people on the forums. While there has been some changes that I don't quite agree upon like walking fortress, bolt nerfs, etc most or very reasonable and do increase variety in class choices. I'm actually looking forward to the weekly updates just to see what abilities get gimped or buffed just as much as the weekly challenges.

Moving onward, it's probably unlikely that armor buffs to guard and templar support xp (blessed blades, horn of valor, etc) can be changed without a major patch but should be taken to consideration.

[DrakeHasNoFlow]

Virtuoso has made this game insanely more "casual friendly" so long as whoevers using it, uses it properly. The buff to the Katari, increases on damage to a lot of the rogue abilites and cooldown reduction on a lot of the tanky warrior abilites have also helped a lot, not to mention the guard buff.The only thing I can see hurting casuals is those who use the Arcane Warrior to play on higher difficulties, who may not have the best loadout to sustain a barrier, or haven't switched to the non-SB loadout.

A lot of changes don't exactly hurt people who have high end gear and a lot of promotions, even AW is can still be op...

[scynn]

A lot of changes don't exactly hurt people who have high end gear and a lot of promotions, even AW is can still be op...

 

 

O_o I said they hurt "casuals" as the guy I quoted put it. Meaning, new players, people who just jump on to play a few games, and don't have a bunch of promotions. The Arcane Warrior is STILL op, even with Spirit Blade being nerfed. And even nerfed Spirit Blade is still useable. You just need good gear and a handful of promotions help. All of which new people don't have, unless they're really lucky with chests/the dragon, which is why they will feel the nerf harder than "veteran" players.

[Eyecon74]

I only unlocked AW about 2 months ago (mainly cause he looks like a clown.. ) to get the dragon weapons set so I can't comment on any previous ability damage/barrier duration/mana cost, I can only imagine what it would have been.

I find him a very survivable character, damage output is not that great but its also not bad, Fade Cloak will instant;y put you back on your feet when hit with those annoying ice mines and its also a great way to get your barrier halfway up when materialising inside an enemy.  He can solo Perilous without godlike promotions, dragon takes a bit longer but its do able.

 

Some people have mentioned that barrier reduces very quickly while standing in the open with 1000 archers shooting at you, well duh.. Regardless of what character you play this strategy will usually leave you looking like a porcupine, you need to learn to position better, there is no need to be ever in the open with AW, CL/SF, close the gap (FS) and get up close and personal (FC).

Then again, its the only build I have found viable for my playstyle so I don't know how much of a loss lol Blade has been to others.

 

I like the changes as it challenges you to look at builds, rebuild & test new things.

[Laforgus]

All 3 new classes honestly feel like power creep. They all can move fast, they all do absurd AoE damage, and their skill trees generally have way less garbage fat than other classes.

 

Because it seems that Devs. really sit to think about these 3 characters, with a coup of coffee and cookies. Unlike the first 12 characters with copy-paste skills from SP.

 

I do love many of SP skills and they are welcome, but between them there are many (CENSORED) skills thrown in. And even worse, repeated between multiple characters.

[Ploidz]

Yep, like alchemist should be more like Avvar with it's element used effect Korth's Might. Or maybe just mix ingredients, like Virtuoso's notes, to create the effect of fire or ice flask so you can use your active abilities that are on your four slots.

 

Having fire and ice flask on Alchemist would only allow you to have one active ability if you want stealth too. It's very limiting.

[mitts281]

These are all serious inquiries. I'm kind of new to this co-op dungeon crawler thing. Is the incompetence of the pvp team on swtor spilling over to this game? Why are their "nerfs" in a simple multiplayer pve game with no endgame? Do players actually complain about another class being better than what they play? The only benefit of a class being OP is that it's more fun. Doesn't hurt anyone whatsoever. Everyone should be OP. Why else are there different difficulties to choose from (with no actual rewards)? You make all classes equally entertaining, WITHOUT NERFING, and leave it alone. Only fixing bugs or adding new things with level cap raises, new characters, etc. It's a dungeon crawler, not a warzone. Go join the swtor pvp team.

[DrakeHasNoFlow]

These are all serious inquiries. I'm kind of new to this co-op dungeon crawler thing. Is the incompetence of the pvp team on swtor spilling over to this game? Why are their "nerfs" in a simple multiplayer pve game with no endgame? Do players actually complain about another class being better than what they play? The only benefit of a class being OP is that it's more fun. Doesn't hurt anyone whatsoever. Everyone should be OP. Why else are there different difficulties to choose from (with no actual rewards)? You make all classes equally entertaining, WITHOUT NERFING, and leave it alone. Only fixing bugs or adding new things with level cap raises, new characters, etc. It's a dungeon crawler, not a warzone. Go join the swtor pvp team.

That's the issue with damp in the beginning, there was only one class that stood way over the rest while others weren't viable in the highest difficulty. If you think choosing one or two classes all the time is fun, than that was what damp was a few months ago. They use to call perilous the solo arcane warrior difficulty because it was one of the most played/abused/spammed classes with a low amount of efforft. If it's the highest difficulty than there should be some sort of teamwork, not the case with him.

When your forced to play a certain way, because you don't have the best gear, or an exorbitant amount of promotions than that to me is not fun regardless if it's a pve, players shouldn't be forced to play a class or certain way to contribute in a cooperative environment.

If there are twelve classes, why should everyone choose one particular class or rely on it to carry them through when the point of other classes is to bring something unique while also doing something worthwhile. Being op is not fun long term, at first it is,but after watching your teammates collect pots and enter the fade while you do all the work hurts the longevity of any genre let alone a pve.

Having 50+ promotions with one class while others have not been touched or hardly played is a sure sign a class is too good compared to others and is in need of some adjustments. It's also why we are seeing a backlash of butthurt posts by players who I presume are high on the leaderboards, (1) because they can't deal dmg and kill everything in record times without every other class contributing now which effects their combos and xp thus can't lvl up faster or (2) other people are actually doing better than their class now post game score wise and it's a blow to their ego.