141 réponses à ce sujet

[LearnedHand]

Shield Bash is awesome. Why is 2.5k damage seen as so outrageous? If you use your brain and know to build for crit chance crit damage rather than waste your time with an inferiority complex about promotions you would actually see its not hard to get those damage numbers. I know I can do 3k+.

[apocalypse_owl]

Shield Bash is awesome. Why is 2.5k damage seen as so outrageous? If you use your brain and know to build for crit chance crit damage rather than waste your time with an inferiority complex about promotions you would actually see its not hard to get those damage numbers. I know I can do 3k+.

Screencap pls, because mathematically its impossible without a good amount of promotions and best in slot gear.

[yarpenthemad21]

Screencap pls, because mathematically its impossible without a good amount of promotions and best in slot gear.

Shield bash ring
crit damage ring
amulet of stamina
dragon sword (upgrade with 5% attack and 14%HoK)
stats:
32/53/35

My average non crit is around 2k damage.

[LearnedHand]

you do need a good weapon, but that is par for the course for an rpg. I use the dragon longsword but before that I had caliban. My promotions are decent, about 70 willpower.

Any rpg is about maximizing stats/gear/level. What is so scandalous about that? Build for crit multipliers, agian not really rocket science. Exploit other offensive bonuses, flank, guard damage, etc. Against a guarded up dragon you can do ridiculous damage.

I see a lot of these threads as working off of a flawed assumption. That all multiplayer games should be like sandbox shooters. This is and in my view should be an rpg with character development and the rewarding of knowledge of game mechanics.

[kmeeg]

CONCLUSION AND TLDR:

 

Willpower and Magic Defense both decrease Spirit damage proportionally.

That's rather interesting. Thanks for pointing it out and teaching me something.

 

On another note: The shield bash ring seems to help a LOT on the damage. 

[Pork]

 I use the dragon longsword but before that I had caliban. My promotions are decent, about 70 willpower.
 

 

Youve just proven owls point. 

[Drasca]

Youve just proven owls point. 

 

Owl denied the damage possible even with bis before. As Learnedhand said, inferiority complex.

 

RPG characters get great damage with great gear? How dare he! You need blinders to be surprised.

[SofaJockey]

No- the Templar sucks balls.

 

Belinda's off-duty preferences are entirely her concern... 

 

"I don't think that was ham, Cillian..."

[Pork]

Owl denied the damage possible even with bis before. As Learnedhand said, inferiority complex.

 

RPG characters get great damage with great gear? How dare he! You need blinders to be surprised.

 

Look, ill do some more maths to prove you wrong (again).

 

Lets take some very average stats from the average player. Lets say, 20 willpower, 20 cunning and a level 22 blue sword, Dwarven Longsword with 165 base damage.

 

Shield bash has a 400% damage rating, so the base damage of shield bash is 660. Base critical damage multiplier = 40%

 

So, a base critical hit will deal: 660 * 1.40  = 924 damage.

 

Now, lets assume the player picks up a critical damage ring and augments the weapon with critical damage to give lets say 24% critical damage bonus (blue ring + 14% critical damage with T3 schematics). 

 

Now the player can potentially crit for: 

 

660 * 1.64 = 1082 damage for roughly 1 in every 5 shield bashes with 20 rogue promotions, so the average damage, including the critical hit chance is: 

 

((660*4)+1082) / 5 = 744 damage.

 

Lets factor in willpower and the stats of a level 20 templar with the Castle Smasher build you have in your thread.

 

20 mage promotions + 14 willpower from passives = 17% attack + 10% damage bonus when fighting demons.  

 

TEST ONE - AVERAGE PROMOTIONS, WEAPON AND GEAR

 

 (165 (base damage) * 1.64 (Critical damage)) * 1.27 (attack%)  =  344 * 400%(Shield bash multiplier) = 1375 for a critical hit vs an enemy with no armor whatsoever.

 

So, Drasca, there is your maths, cold hard maths which you cannot argue against. With average weapons and gear, it is not mathematically possible to reach over 3000 damage with a single shield bash. You can't even get half of that.  

 

BUT WAIT, THERES MORE!

 

 

With the best 1 handed weapon in the game, you have 210 base damage with 15% attack attribute. 

 

TEST TWO - AVERAGE PROMOTIONS AND GEAR WITH BEST IN SLOT WEAPON

 

So our formula is now: 

 

(210 * 1.64) * 1.42 = 489 * 400% = 1956. STILL not 3000 damage with a critical hit with Longsword of the Dragon, against demons with no armor, with 34 willpower. Not even 2000!

 

So, we have proven that mathematically that you cannot possibly yield over 2000 damage with one shield bash.

 

Now, lets give ourselves best in slot gear and weapons. 

 

TEST THREE - AVERAGE PROMOTIONS WITH BEST IN SLOT WEAPON AND GEAR

 

40% base CD + 40% from rings + 21% from T3 Sword Grip + 5% from Superb Dexterity Amulet = a whopping 106% critical damage modifier!   

 

(210 * 2.06) * 1.42 = 614 * 400% = 2457. STILL not 3000 damage, even with best in slot gear AND weapon.

 

So, again, this mathematically proves that you cannot yield over 2500 damage with one shield bash.

 

Now, lets plug in your stats Drasca my dear. Lets see if all those 130 willpower promotions really make a difference like you claim they dont!

 

FINAL TEST - BEST IN SLOT GEAR, WEAPONS AND DRASCA TIER PROMOTIONS

 

(210 * 2.06) * 1.92 (67%WP, 10% Demon buff, 15% Weapon) = 831 * 400% = 3322! Finally! Over 3000 damage, against Demons with no armor, with a critical strike.

 

CONCLUSION

 

So we have mathematically proven that Apocolypse_Owls statement:

 

mathematically its impossible without a good amount of promotions and best in slot gear.

 

is completely correct.

 

It is not mathematically possible to yield over 3000 damage with a single shield bash without the best weapon in the game, the best critical damage augmentations in the game and a good amount of promotions to boot (at least 90 mage promotions). No inferiority complex here, just plain simple, good old fashioned maths (which by the way you cannot possibly deny without substituting your own reality here).

 

RESOURCES

 

• A calculator
• Dragon Age Inquistion Equipment Spreadsheet - https://docs.google....7aWfhI/pubhtml#
• Dragon Age Inquisition damage formula - http://i.gyazo.com/0...87678a83931.png
• GhoXens Damage Calculator to check correctness: https://mega.co.nz/#fm/88cgVISK

[Angelus_de_Mortiel]

<snip>

I henceforth humbly relinquish all my Drasca-debates to a person far superior at it than I.

*bows*

[J. Peterman]

I'm enjoying the epic pwnage in this thread so far. Keep it up.

[Angelus_de_Mortiel]

I've used your "leader" build. I was feeling like a useless player wasting spot.

Builds, especially those which you want to share and show to other ppl, so they will try them, should be made around general concept of effectiveness.

Again, let me make it clear that everything you are saying is your opinion. Not wrong, not right... Just opinion.

I make my build guides because I enjoy finding fun ways to experience things, and not for efficiency.

Now, I clearly disclaim my builds are not the best. For the builds I make that are more unusual (or hipster, if you want), I actually will outrightly disclaim that the build is unusual and not for everyone.

In the case of my Templar Leader, you discovered that it was not for you. There is nothing wrong with that! You at least tried, which is more than a lot of "meta-build" players can say.

(I mean that to say it has absolutely nothing to do with skill and everything to do with personal taste.)

Now, let's cover a more important topic: Efficiency. See, there is this big misconception that in a video game, designed for simple enjoyment, a player must always play in the most "efficient" way.

That has, and always will be, complete nonsense unless you are an eSports competitor.

If you want to be efficient in your game, then please do! It's your game! I will not impede that, as I said. However, don't try to dictate to me how I should play my game or share that enjoyment with others because your view on it is different. It's just rude.

[Dick Dastardly]

 

Look, ill do some more maths to prove you wrong (again).

 

Lets take some very average stats from the average player. Lets say, 20 willpower, 20 cunning and a level 22 blue sword, Dwarven Longsword with 165 base damage.

 

Shield bash has a 400% damage rating, so the base damage of shield bash is 660. Base critical damage multiplier = 40%

 

So, a base critical hit will deal: 660 * 1.40  = 924 damage.

 

Now, lets assume the player picks up a critical damage ring and augments the weapon with critical damage to give lets say 24% critical damage bonus (blue ring + 14% critical damage with T3 schematics). 

 

Now the player can potentially crit for: 

 

660 * 1.64 = 1082 damage for roughly 1 in every 5 shield bashes with 20 rogue promotions, so the average damage, including the critical hit chance is: 

 

((660*4)+1082) / 5 = 744 damage.

 

Lets factor in willpower and the stats of a level 20 templar with the Castle Smasher build you have in your thread.

 

20 mage promotions + 14 willpower from passives = 17% attack + 10% damage bonus when fighting demons.  

 

TEST ONE - AVERAGE PROMOTIONS, WEAPON AND GEAR

 

 (165 (base damage) * 1.64 (Critical damage)) * 1.27 (attack%)  =  344 * 400%(Shield bash multiplier) = 1375 for a critical hit vs an enemy with no armor whatsoever.

 

So, Drasca, there is your maths, cold hard maths which you cannot argue against. With average weapons and gear, it is not mathematically possible to reach over 3000 damage with a single shield bash. You can't even get half of that.  

 

BUT WAIT, THERES MORE!

 

 

With the best 1 handed weapon in the game, you have 210 base damage with 15% attack attribute. 

 

TEST TWO - AVERAGE PROMOTIONS AND GEAR WITH BEST IN SLOT WEAPON

 

So our formula is now: 

 

(210 * 1.64) * 1.42 = 489 * 400% = 1956. STILL not 3000 damage with a critical hit with Longsword of the Dragon, against demons with no armor, with 34 willpower. Not even 2000!

 

So, we have proven that mathematically that you cannot possibly yield over 2000 damage with one shield bash.

 

Now, lets give ourselves best in slot gear and weapons. 

 

TEST THREE - AVERAGE PROMOTIONS WITH BEST IN SLOT WEAPON AND GEAR

 

40% base CD + 40% from rings + 21% from T3 Sword Grip + 5% from Superb Dexterity Amulet = a whopping 106% critical damage modifier!   

 

(210 * 2.06) * 1.42 = 614 * 400% = 2457. STILL not 3000 damage, even with best in slot gear AND weapon.

 

So, again, this mathematically proves that you cannot yield over 2500 damage with one shield bash.

 

Now, lets plug in your stats Drasca my dear. Lets see if all those 130 willpower promotions really make a difference like you claim they dont!

 

FINAL TEST - BEST IN SLOT GEAR, WEAPONS AND DRASCA TIER PROMOTIONS

 

(210 * 2.06) * 1.92 (67%WP, 10% Demon buff, 15% Weapon) = 831 * 400% = 3322! Finally! Over 3000 damage, against Demons with no armor, with a critical strike.

 

CONCLUSION

 

So we have mathematically proven that Apocolypse_Owls statement:

 

 

is completely correct.

 

It is not mathematically possible to yield over 3000 damage with a single shield bash without the best weapon in the game, the best critical damage augmentations in the game and a good amount of promotions to boot (at least 90 mage promotions). No inferiority complex here, just plain simple, good old fashioned maths (which by the way you cannot possibly deny without substituting your own reality here).

 

RESOURCES

 

• A calculator
• Dragon Age Inquistion Equipment Spreadsheet - https://docs.google....7aWfhI/pubhtml#
• Dragon Age Inquisition damage formula - http://i.gyazo.com/0...87678a83931.png
• GhoXens Damage Calculator to check correctness: https://mega.co.nz/#fm/88cgVISK

 

Your the Hero BSN needs but does not deserve

[Angelus_de_Mortiel]

Your the Hero BSN needs but does not deserve

Who cares? All I can think about is bacon!!!

(Apologies to any Indo-European religions against the consumption of porcine edibles)

[yarpenthemad21]

So we have mathematically proven that Apocolypse_Owls statement:
 
 
is completely correct.

If you add to it that "good amount of promotions" is around 20...

Check my screenshot. Everyone now runs with dragon weapons, I've even not maxed crit damage (instead going for HoK). Owl statement was ridiculous, like it's only possible to get 2,5k damage from shield bash by some dark magic and thousands of promotions.
I call it bullshit. You don't need promotions at all for it.

[Hellsteeth30]

*Grabs chewing tobacco and shotgun*

*plants lawn chair*

[Pork]

You don't need promotions at all for it.

 

Well actually, you do. I challenge the statement that you do not need promotions to yield more than 3000 2500 damage with a single shield bash. I will provide irrefutable evidence through mathematical calculation that this statement is what is more commonly referred too as 'total gibberish'.

 

Lets do some more maths!

 

YARPENTHEMADS LESSON IN BASIC ARITHMETIC

 

Gear - Longsword of the Dragon, Critical damage rings (purple x2), Drascas Castle Smasher passives, Dexterity Amulet (purple)

 

Promotions - 0

 

Other variables to consider - 14 willpower from passives, 10% damage buff vs demons, armor values ignored (though this would usually cause damage reduction, as is the case with all physical attacks, which shield bash is).

 

(210 (LSOTD base damage) * (40% base crit damage + 40% rings + 21% T3 Schematics + 5% Dex amulet = 106 (2.06 multiplier) = 432.6

 

(432.6) * (15% attack from LSOTD + 10% attack vs demons + 7% from passives = 1.32 multiplier) = 571

 

571 * 400% ability multiplier = 2284 maximum obtainable damage number with 0 willpower promotions, assuming you fight armorless demons and land a critical hit.

 

Q.E.D.

[Cavemandiary]

Has anyone effectively run upgraded bodyguard+horn of valor on her?

Well this got burried pretty fast. I would be interested in some feedback for a supportive templar though.

[scynn]

You guys were missing the point. It's very possible to get 2.5k Shield Bash crits with very little promotions. However, it is NOT when all you do is walk up to 1 isolated enemy and do so.

 

Horn, enemies being weakened/sundered, mighty offense potion, having multiple enemies around you so the Caliban bonus goes sky high, having BiS gear. All of these will result in big numbers. Walking up to 1 isolated enemy with none of them and getting big numbers is a result of promotions.

[kmeeg]

I wonder which shield yarpenthemad21 uses in that screenshot. His shield may have the ability that increases damage dealt by 5% for each enemy within 8 meters.

 

If the Shield Bash Ring buffs the base damage of Shield Bash, then it would be far superior to the 20% critical damage ring.   ....  (only for shield bash)

[yarpenthemad21]

Well actually, you do. I challenge the statement that you do not need promotions to yield more than 3000 2500 damage with a single shield bash. I will provide irrefutable evidence through mathematical calculation that this statement is what is more commonly referred too as 'total gibberish'.
 
Lets do some more maths!
 
YARPENTHEMADS LESSON IN BASIC ARITHMETIC
 
Gear - Longsword of the Dragon, Critical damage rings (purple x2), Drascas Castle Smasher passives, Dexterity Amulet (purple)
 
Promotions - 0
 
Other variables to consider - 14 willpower from passives, 10% damage buff vs demons, armor values ignored (though this would usually cause damage reduction, as is the case with all physical attacks, which shield bash is).
 
(210 (LSOTD base damage) * (40% base crit damage + 40% rings + 21% T3 Schematics + 5% Dex amulet = 106 (2.06 multiplier) = 432.6
 
(432.6) * (15% attack from LSOTD + 10% attack vs demons + 7% from passives = 1.32 multiplier) = 571
 
571 * 400% ability multiplier = 2284 maximum obtainable damage number with 0 willpower promotions, assuming you fight armorless demons and land a critical hit.
 
Q.E.D.

Where is the obvious bonus from shield? (+5% damage for every enemy)

Also why you ignore ability ring, using crit damage instead? It's suboptimal choice. If you want to math do it right, for now this is bullshit.

Add just it to your math and you have 2,5k+.
So at the end you just prove yourself wrong.

[Pork]

Where is the obvious bonus from shield? (+5% damage for every enemy)

Also why you ignore ability ring, using crit damage instead? It's suboptimal choice. If you want to math do it right, for now this is bullshit.

Add just it to your math and you have 2,5k+.
So at the end you just prove yourself wrong.

 

Any more conditions you want to put on to inflate the damage of a single ability? You already have a guarenteed crit, no armor reduction, enemy faction being demons, and all the best gear in the game.  

 

CDR is better in all situations because guess what? It affects all skills and attacks, not just a few hundred extra to one skill. 

 

At this point I don't know if you are trolling or just plain stupid. A quick glance at your posting history indicates its the latter.

[scynn]

Again, you fail to see the point. This isn't a "what if" situation. Pork was basing it off what Drasca said he was using, at that you don't need, or they're not important, promotions to do those numbers. Which is wrong; you do.

 

If we wanna play your game, lets add a Mighty O Pot, Horn, ect. That, however, was not what was being debated.

[yarpenthemad21]

Any more conditions you want to put on to inflate the damage of a single ability? You already have a guarenteed crit, no armor reduction, enemy faction being demons, and all the best gear in the game.  
 
CDR is better in all situations because guess what? It affects all skills and attacks, not just a few hundred extra to one skill. 
 
At this point I don't know if you are trolling or just plain stupid. A quick glance at your posting history indicates its the latter.

So that looks ppl who proven wrong still thinks that they "know better".

Conditions are obvious. Shield with +5% for enemy is a common thing. Still you can ignore it.
Just changing rings is enough to prove that you can get 2,5k hit. Ability damage changes from 400 to 500 (so only 25%) but it still better.
And yes, on templar, common build with wombo jombo, shield bash and shield wall using ability ring is better idea. Why you ask?
Because boosting wombo jombo is pointless, it still kills everything, it would be an overkill on this.
What we have last? auto attack and shield bash. I would choose spammable and very responsive ability all the time.

As for the "plain stupid". I would say it simple. Do math in proper way or stop pretending you know what are you doing.

I would even argue and I'm pretty sure it's true that using dex amulet on warrior is stupid idea.
In this situation +% attack is lower and willpower amulet would add more. Attack from dex amulet don't work on warriors from what I know. So it's 5% crit damage vs 5% attack. In this scenario where crit damage bonus is .60+ and attack is .22 attack will give more.

Still aren't the whole point of this calculation was a "dare" that you can't get 2,5k damage without promotions? You proved that you were wrong, I was right. Aren't theory crafting based around assumption? Any of those assumptions are impossible to get? No, so why you whine about adding more conditions? Be mature for the god sake.

[yarpenthemad21]

Again, you fail to see the point. This isn't a "what if" situation. Pork was basing it off what Drasca said he was using, at that you don't need, or they're not important, promotions to do those numbers. Which is wrong; you do.
 
If we wanna play your game, lets add a Mighty O Pot, Horn, ect. That, however, was not what was being debated.

I have a screenshot. 3,2k damage. I've added my promotions. I forget about almighty shield with +5% damage bonus.
My outstanding promotions gives me 22% more "attack". I even not using highest possible dragon sword (I've listed upgrade it's with HoK). I'm using amulet of stamina.


Damage increase from willpower promotions aren't that great as ppl think. Cunning and having crit chance high enough gives more damage increase.