92 réponses à ce sujet

[Beerfish]

In game kick = worse feather for DAMP not better.

[akots1]

And if you got a small map? That one with the black swarms of doom for example. Definitely not first (or even fifth) choice for an all-rounder go-to weapon.

Valiant is as light as feather, no big deal with the cool down. Especially if you have something heavy for the primary gun, like raider for example. Also, Volus vanguard with javelin is a signature build for quite a few people on BSN. Works pretty well. And Kroguard with black widow is definitely nothing to sneeze at. It were considered as hipster at some point but now, IMO, it is fully legit.

[capn233]

This thread got more interesting then when it only had a couple posts... I do find some comments about ME3 interesting though.  Not sure what version of the game some people were playing.  Will throw in my 2 cents though.

 

Shield / Health Gating - Integral part of the game, it is a core mechanic.  Odd to label it a crutch.  And in any case, it only serves to block a single (or two if both are active) attack to reduce the number of one hit kills.  Although you had rng instakills via sync in most matches on gold+ (Geth gold the sole exception).  Given that gates had cooldowns, and the damage of burst or large single hit attacks, shield restore abilities weren't nearly as useful as barrier spam in DAI.

 

Accuracy FPS Bug - Was considered as such in the informal bug tracking team (complete with proposed fix).  This isn't much of a crutch unless you just want to call out people on console or with slow pc's.  Exploiting it via framerate cap or modifying interpenemylocspeed directly is more in the realm of straight up cheating rather than "crutching."

 

In Match Consummables - Out of the four, it really only makes sense to label rockets and thermal clips (for grenade kits only, and not listed above).  Gels and Ops aren't particularly game breaking in the ME3 metagame considering the relative hit point pool compared to enemy damage, especially when taking into account that your hp and damage reduction is largely fixed and cannot be magically improved.  Armored compartments for a four man team can trivialize a couple of maps (Glacier, Jade).  AC (and to an extent rocket count) is a larger issue than rockets themselves.

 

Flawless solos - are largely silly, which is why many didn't do them.  The name is a good form of marketing though. A serious question I posed to the creator of said solo was if using a thermal clip or rocket would have saved 5 minutes, was the solo actually flawless?

 

Soloing in general - the number of people who have solod platinum with every class is small enough relative to the player base that when discussing ME3 solos it probably makes more sense to conclude in general that the consumables (and even some of the other weapon or class crutches) are not large enough to trivialize the process.  Geth Scanner did make some solos significantly easier on some classes.  Still wasn't as good as Grenade Capacity on many of them though.

 

Weapon Tiers / Balance / Diversity - Much greater in ME3 than DAI, this should be relatively self evident.  In DAI, how many weapons are actually worth using once you have potentially unlocked them all?  Do the weapons play much differently from each other within a class?  ME3 had larger diversity of weapons ready for platinum, and given that power users (casters) were not reliant on weapon base damage for power damage and combos, you could still deal respectable damage even with low tier weapons.

 

In any case, weapons that were more than adequate for platinum (non-exhaustive): Hurricane, BPP, CSMG, Arc Pistol, Paladin, Suppressor, Scorpion, Talon, Eagle, Mattock, Falcon, Adas, Lancer, Spitfire, Saber, PPR, Typhoon, Harrier, Graal, GPS, Claymore, Reegar, Wraith, Crusader, Piranha, Raider, Venom, Black Widow, Javelin, Kishock, CSR, Incisor, Indra.

 

Avengers on Platinum and other oddities - There were many weapons that were left behind in balance changes, mainly consigned to the Common tier.  Avenger is not particularly good.  I knew one of (if not the first) guys to solo platinum with the Avenger.  It took 120min IIRC (HI on Giant... I think Reapers, I can't remember).  In any case, talking about Avengers, Shurikens or Katanas is interesting, but not particularly informative.  It is true that they do not contribute much to the metagame on higher difficulties, but that is fine as they are starter weapons.  It is possible to do mediocre damage with them on some characters, especially exploiting interactions and stacking glitches with IA though.

 

CSMG - is largely overrated, but will work decently on GI.  It is an "infinite ammo gun," and the clip starts recharging instantly and it does not have a ramp up / hot multiplier.  The mechanics work decently with TC as a result.  However, I would recommend a plethora of weapons over it on GI, as I would on nearly every other class.  Partly because ROF bonuses increase the likelihood of extra ammo consumption / lost shots that this weapon suffers from.  PPR works more than fine on GI.

 

GI and GE - both are predominantly weapon centric classes and are best played that way with ammo combos secondary.   Or both can play straight weapon damage with power damage supplement and no ammo combos.  CSMG is not inherently better on GE than GI.

 

PPR - is extremely powerful on GI, and significantly better on GI than Jugg.  It is good on nearly any weapon centric build, but not particularly great on power spam builds (due to ramp).  Incidentally, Jugg plays best as power spam with Siege Pulse.  On TGI or GI, activate cloak after ramp, melt targets.

 

***

 

Things DAI does better than ME3:

 

1. In game kick

2. Easy mute

3. Seamless host transition in lobby

[StoxRegalia]

Lol

[J. Peterman]

Lol

 

You're in the wrong forum buddy.

[Broganisity]

Actually, I play quite differently between Mauls and Greatswords, even between SF and Sulevin's.

Shift-Cancel all the things?

Shift-Cancel all the things.
 

You're in the wrong forum buddy.

Yeah. This is a SERIOUS conversation!
 

. . .wait, it -is- a serious conversation, isn't it? You're all serious on this!?

[Texasmotiv]

Great, another subjective comparison thread.

[capn233]

^I'm about to start one on cake vs pie.

[Texasmotiv]

^I'm about to start one on cake vs pie.

Somehow ME3MP will still be brought up.

[Broganisity]

Somehow ME3MP will still be brought up.

N7 Shadow is not as great at cutting the cake as the Vorcha Soldier is.

[OutlawJT]

1) The ability to map and remap your abilities to the controller to better adapt to your personal style of play.

 

2) Improved lobby and store interface.

 

3) Maps with a progression, as opposed to small static maps.

 

In my opinion these are the only real improvements over ME3 mp. ME did everything else better. Especially the loot system. DA mp is still lots of fun, though.

[scynn]

1) The ability to map and remap your abilities to the controller to better adapt to your personal style of play.

 

 

Minus the Virtuoso, which bothers me greatly. 

 

It use to drive me NUTS in ME3MP how you couldn't rework the buttons. A lot of my favorite kits had Triangle as a common used ability, and then one of the triggers had a less useful one. It would've made life so much easier to swap

[Drasca]

. . .wait, it -is- a serious conversation, isn't it? You're all serious on this!?

 

Just as there's ME3 builds and playstyles I don't know about, there are DAMP ones you don't.

 

I don't shift cancel mauls for one. I use clear a path with greatswords, but not mauls, for stamina restoration. I'm actually more likely to block and slash cancel weapons in general, but do it more on mauls than GS.

 

Sulevin's blade, I am more likely to open with War Horn on Reaver to proc its Pota to bring everything nearby me. Same for the last stand for the guard on hit property.

 

Berserk weapons I never stay out in cover, but non-berserk I will.

 

There are more details for other weapons, but it is non-creative minds that don't figure them out, just as there are only a few top tier weapons in ME3 and you'd have to have exclusive tricks of the trade knowledge or discover someone who wrote about said knowledge to find out. I'd never know about these exotic kits I'm told about without BSN / youtube.

 

 

Shield / Health Gating - Integral part of the game, it is a core mechanic.  Odd to label it a crutch.

 

This isn't much of a crutch unless you just want to call out people on console or with slow pc's.

 

The biggest overall point is it is a vastly different difficulty for everyone (different skill levels / different kits / over time / even PC hosts), but really the game's easier when you combine all the gimmes, and that the challenge signifigantly reduces compared to day zero when you don't have all these available to you (kits / weapons / consumables).

 

It is a crutch though. If you did take such a large hit you should be dead. It is definitely abuseable with no cooldown when you combine it with the other shield restoring consumables, and kits with grenades + mods that restore shields / health. i.e. AIU or TGI with grenade mod V, and thermal clips as you've mentioned. . . let alone all the free respawning ammo / grenades. Part of the reason Condor's so hard is because of the glitched ammo boxes.

 

Console peasants do have it easy! Difficulty will vary based upon who is hosting (faster or slower PC).

 

 

In Match Consummables . . . can trivialize a couple of maps

Flawless solos - are largely silly, which is why many didn't do them.

 

All maps, but the point is the game is signifigantly more challenging when you don't have or use these. See day zero play vs current day. There's still people that delude themselves into thinking these don't matter at all.

 

 

Weapon Tiers / Balance / Diversity - Much greater in ME3 than DAI, this should be relatively self evident.  In DAI, how many weapons are actually worth using once you have potentially unlocked them all?

 

I have a large collection that I actually keep, and I salvage a lot. Do I need to count them out for you? I might have a dozen daggers alone, and I use a lot of weapons. Granted some of it is hipster value*, but the same can be said for ME3. There's roughly a half dozen top tier weapons in ME3, the rest was just hipster showing-off "oh look at me, I'm so cool with x weapon" meanwhile they could be more effective with one of the top tier weapons.

 

*I totally did a Hipster Hunter with Trepanner's Reprisal + Stealth + Knife in the Shadow + Fulldraw + attack from flank for guaranteed crit of upwards 10k and spirit explosions of 2k. I don't use this much.

 

 

CSMG -- I would recommend a plethora of weapons over it on GI, as I would on nearly every other class.

 

Totally this, because while it could work 'ok' there's far better available. Working 'fine' is just a hipster stylistic choice, not the actual efficient one. The only time you should be choosing hipster weapons over best for kit is when building the manifest and you don't have the better option available, or you're overly concerned about 'showing off, look at me'.

 

Granted a lot of ME3 was about showing off, but it was really just BSN that was being hipster and fad weapons.

 

 

GI and GE - both are predominantly weapon centric classes and are best played that way with ammo combos secondary.   Or both can play straight weapon damage with power damage supplement and no ammo combos.  CSMG is not inherently better on GE than GI.

 

PPR - is extremely powerful on GI, and significantly better on GI than Jugg.  It is good on nearly any weapon centric build, but not particularly great on power spam builds (due to ramp).  Incidentally, Jugg plays best as power spam with Siege Pulse.  On TGI or GI, activate cloak after ramp, melt targets.

 

I generally played GE as power based builds, so CSMG would've been the better choice for me. GI is a straight weapon damage class most of the time though.

 

PPR is only better on GI than Jugg if you could survive being a GI. Not everyone can GI, and plays all kits at the same skill level. Gi's are squishy, Juggs are not. This part is conveniently forgotten during these discussions, because everyone is ego-centric thinking of their own abilities.

 

PPR on Jugg though is one of the ideal options, but not one of the ideal options on GI. Generally GI's most effective option is Javelin or BW, excepting those hipster builds.

[capn233]

The biggest overall point is it is a vastly different difficulty for everyone (different skill levels / different kits / over time / even PC hosts), but really the game's easier when you combine all the gimmes, and that the challenge signifigantly reduces compared to day zero when you don't have all these available to you (kits / weapons / consumables).

I agree that there was power creep, which happens in all sorts of games, and has happened in DAI.
 

It is a crutch though. If you did take such a large hit you should be dead.

It is a core mechanic, and was carried over from ME2 in the case of the shieldgate. There aren't supposed to be one-shot kills on the player except for synced animation kills. That is just how it is designed. You can be easily killed in one burst around the gate, especially on Platinum though.

There aren't many enemy units designed for straight melee damage, and most ranged hitscan dps is not nearly as telegraphed as in DAI.

It is definitely abuseable with no cooldown when you combine it with the other shield restoring consumables, and kits with grenades + mods that restore shields / health.

No, shieldgate has a hard cooldown once they are broken and it is triggered. Shield restore abilities like ARush shield evo, Shield Boost, Geth Turret, etc do not give the gate back. This is part of why they aren't really all that great.

If shields aren't broken, then they help a bit as a buffer and to allow you to use the non-broken shield regen time.

Stim Packs give i-frames when activated, which isn't technically the same thing as restoring the gate.

RM might be the only exception, I don't remember if it was tested correctly to determine if it really restores the gate or if it is just regening through damage and playing the effect. I haven't played AIU in ages.
 

Console peasants do have it easy! Difficulty will vary based upon who is hosting (faster or slower PC).

I agree that the game is easier at lower fps (until it affects ability to move and aim), but I don't consider that bug a crutch largely because it isn't something someone chooses to actively exploit, unless they decide to limit fps artificially in which case it is more like cheating than a crutch.
 

All maps, but the point is the game is signifigantly more challenging when you don't have or use these. See day zero play vs current day. There's still people that delude themselves into thinking these don't matter at all.

The gels, ops, clips and rockets were in the game at release, although some hadn't accumulated very many yet since you had to unlock extra capacity. They weren't even going to be limited initially, which is how some (infamous) players ended up with things like 10 Ops Packs. BW locked that down fairly quickly, but those guys were grandfathered in.

In any case, the definition of a crutch shouldn't be generalized such that it is anything that makes the game easier at all. Otherwise everything except the worst character and worst kit is a crutch and the whole discussion is pointless (well, ignoring for the moment whether or not discussions about games are inherently pointless).
 

I have a large collection that I actually keep, and I salvage a lot. Do I need to count them out for you? I might have a dozen daggers alone, and I use a lot of weapons. Granted some of it is hipster value*, but the same can be said for ME3. There's roughly a half dozen top tier weapons in ME3

There are more than 6 top weapons in ME3 largely because there is variety in weapons and some work better with certain characters and builds than others. There is hardly any variety in DAI weapons, one might swing slightly faster than the other, one might do AOE, but DAI is much more reliant on pure base damage since power damage comes from base weapon damage (a mistake IMO).

Some weapons have different enchantments, but the few end game weapons usually have the best of those, and even if they aren't the highest they can be made up with promotions or crafted mods.
 

PPR is only better on GI than Jugg if you could survive being a GI. Not everyone can GI, and plays all kits at the same skill level. Gi's are squishy, Juggs are not.
 
PPR on Jugg though is one of the ideal options, but not one of the ideal options on GI. Generally GI's most effective option is Javelin or BW.

PPR is excellent on GI, or most other weapon centric characters. Whether or not someone will survive with a GI isn't really here nor there, as they probably wouldn't make it with any other weapon anyway. Talon is likely the best weapon on GI though. PPR, Hurricane, Raider, Piranha, Wraith, Venom, Javelin and Black Widow may all have a case after that depending on faction and map.

[ALTBOULI]

There are no geth in DAMP

[Drasca]

There are more than 6 top weapons in ME3 largely because there is variety in weapons and some work better with certain characters and builds than others. There is hardly any variety in DAI weapons, one might swing slightly faster than the other, one might do AOE, but DAI is much more reliant on pure base damage since power damage comes from base weapon damage (a mistake IMO).

Some weapons have different enchantments, but the few end game weapons usually have the best of those, and even if they aren't the highest they can be made up with promotions or crafted mods.

 

You might dismiss how the weapons swing, but they do matter (especially across the 3 different 2H warriors). It is as night and day to me as javelin and black widow might be to you, or Piranah and Claymore. The enchantments do matter a lot too, and how they interact with each other: See Audacity as off-hand for Isabella for the most obvious example. Some things cannot be made up for, and the devil is in the details.  Most of the end game dragon weapons actually cannot be modded. Only the maul and the longsword can.

 

I may play more and play with more uniques on more builds than you do, thus I see the differences, but if you've never done so a shotgun might be a shotgun to you, just as 'all shields are the same'-- except when they're not. If I didn't know much about ME3, I would make the same arguement about ME3. A shotgun's a shotgun, and a sniper's a sniper, and the weapon variety is pretty shallow-- and in a sense it is . Most of them are direct fire weapons, no arc'ing and few other special effects. Very few do crazy shots (acolyte), or work fundamentally differently than the others (CSMG/CAR/PPR = beam), Reegar being fps based damage weirdness. Minor differences in weapon spread, damage, accuracy, reload time and mag size are around, but they're fundamentally the same direct fire weapon.

 

I don't know how much you actually play all the classes, but I've played everything extensively except Alchemist and Hunter. The unique weapons & classes in DAI matter, and they do drastically affect how the kits are played and used optimally, especially as you're gearing up.

 

 

PPR is excellent on GI, or most other weapon centric characters. Whether or not someone will survive with a GI isn't really here nor there, as they probably wouldn't make it with any other weapon anyway. Talon is likely the best weapon on GI though. PPR, Hurricane, Raider, Piranha, Wraith, Venom, Javelin and Black Widow may all have a case after that depending on faction and map.

 

How well a certain player can play on their particular kit and weapon does matter though. You cannot take the player out of the equation, because the player that is terrible at half those weapons, or the weapons that have a longer / steeper learning curve do matter in how fast the player is effective with them. There is no imaginary player. There is only the one actually playing. For me, I'm terrible at the stagger/juggle weapons, and for the life of me can't figure out why people love talon so much (best I could use it on was a vanguard). PPR's damage is back loaded and belongs on a character that can stand around longer, or has more consistent damage passives, as TC doesn't last long enough to boost the back end damage.

 

I'm sure other people are not equally talented on all weapons and kits either. Even the best players have favorites too.

[HeroicMass]

DA has done some things that I notice as beneficial over ME such as power mapping to whichever button you prefer, build variety due to larger skill tree options, host migration being much easier and at least being able to keep the gold you earned if you disconnect from a match.

 

My main issue with the state of DAMP is how gear dependent the game is.  With all abilities tied to weapon damage, it makes the curve much steeper to approach being helpful with all classes on higher difficulties.  Certain things like T3 upgrades make accessibility easier with the addition of easily crafted HoK schematics for most all weapons, but having ability damage tied specifically to weapon damage makes the grind, and associated disappointment in the store, much greater than what we experienced with MEMP.  The region lock for matchmaking is the other main complaint.  Having built a decent friends list of people still playing this game it isn't much of an issue now, but at first it was pretty brutal if I was playing at odd hours for NA.

[Beerfish]

Best thing about DAMP is that half the scrubby mooks I used to play with in MEMP did not make it over here.  Still, some did make it over......not naming names in this thread or anything.....(heroicmass, ALTBOULI, Peterman and aliases, Notorius Hog etc etc etc)

 

For sure some things are better, I wish they had not 'fixed' things that really weren't broken such as scoreboard and such.  I can actually put up with most of the changes made whether I totally agree with them or not.  The one big minus to this game is the stability by a wide margin.

 

They are undoubtably working on the next ME multiplayer game type of game right now and my top 5 list of important features would be:  stability, stability, stability, stability and stability.  I can deal with RNG things, classes, weapons, game play etc.  But the one thing that has almost made me quite this game multiple times was simply not being able to play.

[HeroicMass]

Best thing about DAMP is that half the scrubby mooks I used to play with in MEMP did not make it over here.  Still, some did make it over......not naming names in this thread or anything.....(heroicmass, ALTBOULI, Peterman and aliases, Notorius Hog etc etc etc)

 

 

 

You know you would have missed us

[ALTBOULI]

Best thing about DAMP is that half the scrubby mooks I used to play with in MEMP did not make it over here.  Still, some did make it over......not naming names in this thread or anything.....(heroicmass, ALTBOULI, Peterman and aliases, Notorius Hog etc etc etc)
 
For sure some things are better, I wish they had not 'fixed' things that really weren't broken such as scoreboard and such.  I can actually put up with most of the changes made whether I totally agree with them or not.  The one big minus to this game is the stability by a wide margin.
 
They are undoubtably working on the next ME multiplayer game type of game right now and my top 5 list of important features would be:  stability, stability, stability, stability and stability.  I can deal with RNG things, classes, weapons, game play etc.  But the one thing that has almost made me quite this game multiple times was simply not being able to play.

I expect to ve carried if we ever do bump into each other in DAMP

[Beerfish]

I expect to be teabagged if we ever do bump into each other in DAMP

You are probably not in my 'zone'  Also I carry as well in this game as I did in MEMP, as in 'If Beerfish is leading the scoreboard the match is in severe jeopardy'

[ALTBOULI]

You are probably not in my 'zone'  Also I carry as well in this game as I did in MEMP, as in 'If Beerfish is leading the scoreboard the match is in severe jeopardy'

I will take the risk, you cant be any worse than Heroic

[CMDR FACE]

N7 Shadow is not as great at cutting the cake as the Vorcha Soldier is.

Krogan Warlord smashes cake Gallagher style.

[Kriztofer]

- Less RNG unlock system for characters (sadly the weapon unlocks are worse than ME3)
- No sync kills
- Less stunlock

For the most part I prefer the core gameplay of ME3 multiplayer though. Felt more involved, less based on numbers.

[akots1]

There are no geth in DAMP

That's an X-box thing apparently. I tend to get stunlocked or knocked down and then stunlocked in DAIMP much more frequently than in ME3.