59 réponses à ce sujet

[Simfam]

Oh sure.

 

I never meant in-game lore breaking like say...

 

Uhhh...

 

Argonians suddenly not being able to breathe under water.

 

But sources and such.

[L. Han]

Oh sure.

 

I never meant in-game lore breaking like say...

 

Uhhh...

 

Argonians suddenly not being able to breathe under water.

 

But sources and such.

 

#notcreatedequal

[A Crusty Knight Of Colour]

The Unreliable Narrator concept of Elder Scrolls refers to in-game texts and stories being written from an in-universe perspective, meaning that stuff you read in-game can be fallible or heavily biased depending on the in-universe author.

It's an intentional lore principle pioneered by (I believe) Michael Kirkblade, who is responsible for some of the crazier metaphysical and spiritual aspects of TES lore. It adds another dimension to the lore, because an in-universe perspective encourages ambiguity, mystery and for the player to adopt an in-universe/roleplaying mindset when dealing with in game material.

More practically, it allows Bethesda very wide leeway when it comes to contradicting established lore or employing retcons. A lot of established in lore can be handwaved later under the idea. Cyrodiil was supposed to be a thick jungle at one point, for example. The Dragon Break event of Daggerfall probably necessitated this approach to lore in the first place, as that game had 7 (?) very distinct endings based on your actions, yet required a single working timeline for Morrowind and future installments.

[Simfam]

Oh so it was intentional?

 

Cool.

[A Crusty Knight Of Colour]

Oh so it was intentional?

Cool.

Intentional but used too often by Bethesda as a crutch or excuse if they want to change things for no reason. Still, it's a fairly distinct approach to lore in games. Most games don't have anything like it, let alone on the scale of Elder Scrolls.

[Simfam]

Intentional but used too often by Bethesda as a crutch or excuse if they want to change things for no reason. Still, it's a fairly distinct approach to lore in games. Most games don't have anything like it, let alone on the scale of Elder Scrolls.

 

Hahaha yeah, especially that jungle part. As for the Dragon's Break... I can forgive most things pre-Morrowind, since Morrowind was really "The Elder Scrolls: Renaissance" seeing as it was make or break for them. Daggerfall was a huge game of intrigue, factions and randomly-generated dungeons, so no wonder it was a mess and TES Arena was uhhh... okay?

 

Like I said, it's not the most perfect thing in the world, but neither is PS:T and that game is 'da bomb.

 

It's still pretty neat if you ask me.

[Das Tentakel]

Intentional but used too often by Bethesda as a crutch or excuse if they want to change things for no reason. Still, it's a fairly distinct approach to lore in games. Most games don't have anything like it, let alone on the scale of Elder Scrolls.

 

DA tends to use it as well, but too often and in a very transparent matter, meaning things were retconned (behind the scenes or otherwise) to fit in what they wanted to put in the game. It's a trick best used sparingly because every time you do, you give a firm kick to the fragile structure of your worldbuilding and the suspension of disbelief of the players / readers.

[Br3admax]

Hahaha yeah, especially that jungle part. As for the Dragon's Break... I can forgive most things pre-Morrowind, since Morrowind was really "The Elder Scrolls: Renaissance" seeing as it was make or break for them. Daggerfall was a huge game of intrigue, factions and randomly-generated dungeons, so no wonder it was a mess and TES Arena was uhhh... okay?

 

Like I said, it's not the most perfect thing in the world, but neither is PS:T and that game is 'da bomb.

 

It's still pretty neat if you ask me.

Actually, most of the newer ES lore was written for Redguard, not a numbered title. Cyrodiil wasn't changed for Oblivion, it was changed with the Warp in the West, just like most things, Talos wasn't even a god before that point, so while Dragon Breaks can be used as the ultimate cop out, they really haven't been used in that way by Bethesda yet, or more of why everyone in Oblivion suddenly forgot how you did everything while Martin sat in Cloud Ruler. I would have prefered they had given the sorry excuses Zenimax Online uses for ESO. 

[Sigma Tauri]

The Unreliable Narrator concept of Elder Scrolls refers to in-game texts and stories being written from an in-universe perspective, meaning that stuff you read in-game can be fallible or heavily biased depending on the in-universe author.

It's an intentional lore principle pioneered by (I believe) Michael Kirkblade, who is responsible for some of the crazier metaphysical and spiritual aspects of TES lore. It adds another dimension to the lore, because an in-universe perspective encourages ambiguity, mystery and for the player to adopt an in-universe/roleplaying mindset when dealing with in game material.

 

Michael Kirkbride didn't pioneer the concept of the Unreliable Narrator in TES. In fact, I think it predates him when Daggerfall started introducing books in the game.

[Fast Jimmy]

Oh sure.

I never meant in-game lore breaking like say...

Uhhh...

Argonians suddenly not being able to breathe under water.

But sources and such.

He insults the Scaled Ones! Heretic! Burn him!

[Fast Jimmy]

The Unreliable Narrator concept of Elder Scrolls refers to in-game texts and stories being written from an in-universe perspective, meaning that stuff you read in-game can be fallible or heavily biased depending on the in-universe author.

It's an intentional lore principle pioneered by (I believe) Michael Kirkblade, who is responsible for some of the crazier metaphysical and spiritual aspects of TES lore. It adds another dimension to the lore, because an in-universe perspective encourages ambiguity, mystery and for the player to adopt an in-universe/roleplaying mindset when dealing with in game material.

More practically, it allows Bethesda very wide leeway when it comes to contradicting established lore or employing retcons. A lot of established in lore can be handwaved later under the idea. Cyrodiil was supposed to be a thick jungle at one point, for example. The Dragon Break event of Daggerfall probably necessitated this approach to lore in the first place, as that game had 7 (?) very distinct endings based on your actions, yet required a single working timeline for Morrowind and future installments.

The first great casualty that is the Save Import. Dragon Break is proof that game universes literally crack open when you try to add choice continuity.


On a different note, I'm surprised no one has mentioned the actual Elder Scrolls aspect of The Elder Scroll lore. Crazy scrolls that make people go blind, constantly shift and can actually alter the fundamental nature of time and space within the universe just with their existence?

[Voxr]

On a different note, I'm surprised no one has mentioned the actual Elder Scrolls aspect of The Elder Scroll lore. Crazy scrolls that make people go blind, constantly shift and can actually alter the fundamental nature of time and space within the universe just with their existence?

I thought that was based on fact. 

 

I mean maybe your scrolls don't do that........

[Fast Jimmy]

As more On Topic, I'd throw out the Fallout universe as having an interesting lore. Especially if you really cherry pick some of the stupidity of the Vaults backstory out of the mix, specifically later games. It became more ridiculous as each game tried to make each Vault an increasingly more bizarre experiment that offered no value, as well as the backstory of the Vault experiments becoming increasingly more convoluted with each title.

Still, they do a good job of making a post-Apocalyptic world that is both in-depth and not too serious.

[Fast Jimmy]

I thought that was based on fact.

I mean maybe your scrolls don't do that........

The only scrolls I've seen that do that are the ones you eat.

[Liamv2]

As more On Topic, I'd throw out the Fallout universe as having an interesting lore. Especially if you really cherry pick some of the stupidity of the Vaults backstory out of the mix, specifically later games. It became more ridiculous as each game tried to make each Vault an increasingly more bizarre experiment that offered no value, as well as the backstory of the Vault experiments becoming increasingly more convoluted with each title.

Still, they do a good job of making a post-Apocalyptic world that is both in-depth and not too serious.

 

The vaults range from interesting to creepy to bat **** ****** insane to just plain weird. Like the one with nothing but gamblers or 2 where all entertainment tapes were removed but one of them had nothing but a bad one.

[Voxr]

As more On Topic, I'd throw out the Fallout universe as having an interesting lore. Especially if you really cherry pick some of the stupidity of the Vaults backstory out of the mix, specifically later games. It became more ridiculous as each game tried to make each Vault an increasingly more bizarre experiment that offered no value, as well as the backstory of the Vault experiments becoming increasingly more convoluted with each title.

Still, they do a good job of making a post-Apocalyptic world that is both in-depth and not too serious.

I didn't care for New Vegas that much but Vault 22 was probably one of my favorite vaults. The lore behind it was also very bizarre and weird. 

 

And to say that 108 adds no value is just, Gary?

[Fast Jimmy]

The vaults range from interesting to creepy to bat **** ****** insane to just plain weird. Like the one with nothing but gamblers.

I actually thought that one would be worth doing.

The one where everyone was a clone of one dude named Gary... not so much.

[Fast Jimmy]

I didn't care for New Vegas that much but Vault 22 was probably one of my favorite vaults. The lore behind it was also very bizarre and weird.

And to say that 108 adds no value is just, Gary?

Ha! Gary jinx.

[Voxr]

Ha! Gary jinx.

 Gary!

 

Gar-y Gary Gary. 

Gary. 

[Sigma Tauri]

On a different note, I'm surprised no one has mentioned the actual Elder Scrolls aspect of The Elder Scroll lore. Crazy scrolls that make people go blind, constantly shift and can actually alter the fundamental nature of time and space within the universe just with their existence?

 

MK stated that the Elder Scrolls themselves are actually recording devices that collect music from the entire world, which is then transmitted back to the Sun. Yeah...

[Liamv2]

I actually thought that one would be worth doing.

The one where everyone was a clone of one dude named Gary... not so much.

 

I will say that do like the idea that towards the end vault tec started to just ****** about with the vaults because they didn't expect them to work or be finished.

[Fast Jimmy]

I will say that do like the idea that towards the end vault tec started to just ****** about with the vaults because they didn't expect them to work or be finished.

But I also got lost when they dove into some crazy stuff, like the corporate contracting being a big cover up as well to get other people rich... not sure if that was FO:NV or Fallout: Tactics that introduced that, but it took things too deep. The only way they could go with it that would jump the FEV-enhanced Super Mutant Shark would be making it an alien conspiracy as well.

[Liamv2]

But I also got lost when they dove into some crazy stuff, like the corporate contracting being a big cover up as well to get other people rich... not sure if that was FO:NV or Fallout: Tactics that introduced that, but it took things too deep. The only way they could go with it that would jump the FEV-enhanced Super Mutant Shark would be making it an alien conspiracy as well.

 

I'm pretty sure that's possible actually what with the aliens.

[Fast Jimmy]

I'm pretty sure that's possible actually what with the aliens.