61 réponses à ce sujet

[Sidney]

The biggest issues for DAMP are:

Loot/inventory weapon system that doesn't work for the MP world. ME3 has a vastly superior loot system for weapons. There are just way, way, way too many unproductive chests and too little variation between the weapons and too few high end weapons to feel like there is a choice. I will say that the armor system with variable armor and permanent attachments I like better than ME3MP.

Promotions. The shrieking of people who wanted MP to stay away from SP won out and so promotions had to have so effect and the effect was disturbing the balance of the game. My stats are basically only 15-20 and I can tell the difference - as much as I'd like to imagine I am just better. At some point they will have to create a level above perilous that requires base stats >= X for people who have raised their base stats past the game.

Matchmaking. Maybe issues 1-2 cause too few people to play but I doubt it. It is a PiTA to try and find a match all too often.

[Theghostof_timmy]

Theghostof_timmy - the standards of both consumers and companies are really pathetic. If we look at auto manufacturers and all the recalls due to deaths caused by faulty equipment, then the quality of a game might seem minor. However it's more of the general attitude of acceptance here that is the problem - as long as the product is cheap and the bottom line is met both sides are happy, no? Would you pay $10 more for a flawless product? 20? 30? Are game manufacturers willing to forfeit heavy profits to bring us a flawless product? It like saying deaths are unavoidable because cars are now too complicatited to manufacture, and true beta testing doesn't happen until it hits the consumer. That's a sorry excuse.

Super Drasca technique! "Apples and Oranges!"-HAAAAA!

 

Ahem. But seriously, comparing car manufacturing to video games is ludicrous. And no, not the rapper.

 

1. Every car design is based on the car design before it. Each new model year is just small changes to the established design, usually completely cosmetic. The video game equivalent is making ALMOST the exact same game every year, with the same engine. Like, say, Assassin's Creed brotherhood to Revelations. You didn't see any bugs there did you? Besides the ones they never bother to fix from game to game. With a game like this, they're working from an engine they've never seen before, on a deadline, and having to be bigger and better than ever before.

 

2.The profit margin for car manufacturing is VASTLY, MINDBLOWINGLY higher than video games. They manufacture cars for a couple hundred in China, ship them for another couple hundred around the world, and sell them for tens of thousands, even hundreds of thousands of dollars. They can afford to test everything about the car, from the sound the seat makes when your ass hits it to the sound of the doors closing, BECAUSE THEY'RE RICH AS F*CK. When it comes to safety, if they don't, not only will the government come down on their ass, they have to pay millions or billions in legal costs and recalls. Even then, the technology changes very little.

 

When it comes to video games, they often don't have that luxury. Each game has to be markedly better than the last, or they start losing market share. It may seem like gaming companies are "rich", but one costly flop is the difference between success and failure of the entire studio. See the controversy over the original attempt at Star Wars Battlefront 3 to see a talented, successful company go straight out of business with a flop. With that kind of pressure, the time and money just isn't there to catch every single bug in today's games.

 

3. Yes, 20, $30 more is indeed too much for a game. A video game has zero practical value. A car gets you places, a video game gets you disappointment from your parents. 70-80 dollars for a game is enough pressure on my wallet, thank you. Again, comparing video games to car manufacturing here is a failed attempt. Car manufacturers can pass any extra costs straight on to the consumer. They simply raise the price by a few thousand, and customers pay for the increase with a small raise in their car mortgages. Seeing as right now you can't buy a game at gamestop for a dollar a month, this is incomparable.

 

Tl;dr

[PartTimeWolf]

Wow,

 

What an unnecessarily pedantic and unneeded post.  I really don't get your point about Apples and Oranges.  In addition to being wrong about automotive industry profits; the current reported data doesn't support the following statement "The profit margin for car manufacturing is VASTLY, MINDBLOWINGLY higher" especially if you look over the past quarter century and you understand the difference between gross and net profit margins.  You miss the forest for the trees. I completely understand the point that the OP was making about consumer attitudes and expectations.  It's really not that complicated.  How consumer attitudes, expectations and manufacturer responsibilities relate to each other do appear to cross industries. Maybe it's cultural or a post industrial mind-set. You want to talk about profits then look at the oil companies, cars ehhhh not so much. 

[Theghostof_timmy]

 I really don't get your point about Apples and Oranges because I have no idea what I'm talking about. 

FTFY

 

To make things easier for you, here's some fun links.

http://en.wikipedia....nies_by_revenue

http://www.polygon.c...es-state-of-aaa

 

So there. Now for an appeal to logic, if numbers in front of your nose didn't work.

 

There exists a concept called "acceptable losses". In every complicated, large scale venture, there is a point where removing impurities from a product is no longer economically feasible. For this example, I will use food.

http://www.cbsnews.c...s-in-your-food/

In case you didn't bother to read, the FDA (and equivalent organizations in other countries) allows trace amounts of things like rat feces, mashed insect parts, and hair to be in food like, say, peanut butter. That's right, THERE IS A FAIR CHANCE THERE IS RAT **** IN YOUR FOOD. This isn't because they don't try to clean it up as best they can, but because not only is it doubtful they could ever remove the detritus entirely, but it would cost more to try for perfection than they would make from selling the food.

 

Video games are the same. It is impossible to completely remove every bug in the game given the time, budget, and profitability constraints in the marketplace. Game devs need to put food on the table too, you know.

 

Tl; dr

 

Fixing every last bug is uneconomical. If it works for the majority of players, that is the best that can be done. See gif in my previous post.

[PartTimeWolf]

Well,

 

 

I gotta hand it to you.  You made me laugh.  Revenue, huh, so now you want to talk about revenue, that's the "logic".  Yes let us change the argument because that's what you really meant. Kind of different than profit margin gross or net.  Somehow huge revenue equates to huge profit margin.  Automotive companies always do well because they have huge revenue therefore, what was it, oh yeah "The profit margin for car manufacturing is VASTLY, MINDBLOWINGLY higher" but you really meant revenues.  They will never need government bailouts, suffer losses, or go out of business because of the HUGE revenue.  I mean forget about expenses like operations, manufacturing, distribution, etc. that impact profit margin.  The revenue is so HUGE.  At least I get  the apples and oranges reference, now you want to talk about the food industry.  A good laugh anyways. 

[Theghostof_timmy]

Well,

 

 

I gotta hand it to you.  You made me laugh.  Revenue, huh, so now you want to talk about revenue, that's the "logic".  Yes let us change the argument because that's what you really meant. Kind of different than profit margin gross or net.  Somehow huge revenue equates to huge profit margin.  Automotive companies always do well because they have huge revenue therefore, what was it, oh yeah "The profit margin for car manufacturing is VASTLY, MINDBLOWINGLY higher" but you really meant revenues.  They will never need government bailouts, suffer losses, or go out of business because of the HUGE revenue.  I mean forget about expenses like operations, manufacturing, distribution, etc. that impact profit margin.  The revenue is so HUGE.  At least I get  the apples and oranges reference, now you want to talk about the food industry.  A good laugh anyways. 

Well, 

 

 

Whatever, if you're going to be a troll, go back to your bridge. You still haven't presented any evidence aside from being smug about nothing. If you have nothing to say but empty BS, I see no reason to pay any attention to you. Have a nice day.

[Texasmotiv]

Games are not cars. There are no laws regulating bugs in video games and if there weren't any in the automotive industry they wouldn't bother making them safe (to save money).

Move on.

The size and scale of the single player allows for some bugs here and there. The multiplayer however is tiny relatively and the only logical conclusion is that they were understaffed and underfunded from the get-go.

There has been huge upward shift in this game and it at least gives me hope that some of the major issues will be addressed.

[Jeremiah12LGeek]

I came over from ME3 mp, a game that had it right from the start.

 

Erhm... I can't help but point out that saying this sort of proves that you weren't there from the start. Even many of ME 3's advantages that you list in the rest of your post actually weren't implemented when ME 3 MP launched, but months later.

 

Don't get me wrong, I think ME 3 MP is in a different class entirely, and far superiour as a multiplayer experience, but it was a pretty broken mess back in March of 2012.

[PartTimeWolf]

I played MP from the second or third week on and still play it occasionally.   Generally Bioware's ME3MP nerfs and buffs were incremental rather than dramatic but sometimes they were significant. They seemed to be planned with more thought. I still don't think that they solved the missile glitch but c'est la vie.  The most common problems I remember having in ME3MP early were lobby and game start issues.  Sometimes Condor was glitchy but that was a later map. To say that ME3MP was a pretty broken mess is very much over stating the situation I do not ever remember it being as bad as you claim except when EA had server issues. Additionally, any of us who had been playing Bioware games for awhile (Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, etc.) understood that this was a first attempt at console MP for them which was an add-on to a successful solo game it was easier to cut them some slack at that point.  The bigger issue was what was up with the  ending of the trilogy.  That was lousy, in fact.  At least on the xbox 360 in MP my biggest issues were with connectivity to games and crappy matching.  Farming Geth on White became pretty much standard and I could always find one of those going on that worked.  DAIMP on the other hand has been pretty crappy from the key glitch on.  I did not play it much in November or December but from January...ouch broken game.  They have finally fixed some things but so many of the enhancements don't work.  So your contention that the OP didn't play ME3MP from the beginning appears to be unfounded from what I know.

[Ispan]

A dev told me that in the very first day, consumers put more hours into a game than the company's testers did over the entire development cycle. I worked in electronics QA myself and know how many hours can go into trying to break each and every build. There's absolutely no way to catch every bug before a product is released, unless so many years and dollars go into the QA process that there is no reason to even develop it in the first place.

That said, dedicated servers would've been really nice also, not sure how balance changes negatively impact the life of the game... If anything they keep things fresh and encourage players to try new kits and skill load outs. It's easy to be negative and look at them as punishments instead, I suppose.

[Beerfish]

There will always be bugs in games and will always be issues because games keep getting more complex.  This I accept.  However there is a grand difference between having an odd bug that causes an inconvenience and game breakers that appear very very often.

 

On top of that is creating a dynamic that actually makes the bugs worse and tougher to swallow.  Here are a couple of examples for DAMP.

 

Allow gold to be kept if leaving mid match but not allowing exp to be kept.  All of those annoying, disheartening disconnects, undeserved kicks, game crash bugs?  Give me my 3 or 4 waves of exp and I'll grump a bit but at least I am getting some value for playing.  Instead you get almost nothing, especially when the majority of the time people do not collect pots or go into treasure rooms.

 

End wave, making everyone run to the banner, well I've had multiple narnia games lately and thus all you can do is sign off because you can't even get to the banner.

 

If you are going to have a game with connectivity problems, on going bugs like narnia etc and you either can't or won't correct them then you need to at least mitigate the downside to the playing experience.  This game does not do that at all.

[Saigeo]

It's a question of standards - not what is being produced.