195 réponses à ce sujet

[yarpenthemad21]

BLuke said he was looking into a 20 to 30% nerf to Barrier.

In any case, a nerf of 30% on a 4000 HP Barrier is still 2800 HP. This is far from being a problem right now on Perilous... And because the rate of decay is the same for the new 2800 HP Barrier (8.5%/s), the amount of Barrier you lose every second is much less than was the original amount for a 4000 HP Barrier. Overall, the decay rate would minimize the nerf because it's spread over several seconds, it's a very minor nerf...

Personally, I would impose a 50% penalty on Barrier total HP for the Arcane Warrior. Fade Shield needs to be 30% so you can generate Barrier fast enough, the total HP from Barrier doesn't need to be so big nothing can make a dent on it... And that's the problem with the Arcane Warrior, not how fast he can generate Barrier, but how much he can accumulate Barrier as a buffer. Lowering the total Barrier HP would make it possible to easily shrug a couple hits, but not being able to be impervious to about anything. Nothing screams more "OVERPOWERED" than 12 archers trying to make a dent in the Barrier of an AW when he's standing right in the open with no concern at all for his safety. Try to do that for 10 seconds with any other character...

AW only role is tanking.
You want to nerf his only reason of existence in DAIMP. Why should I take "nerfed" aw instead of keeper, elementalist, virtuoso or even necro? Give me a reason. Even for now AW it's not worth. AW needs badly bug fixing.
As for the "barrier" value. 2k worth barrier is around 4 arrows. Damage vs barrier is higher due to lack of armor bonus, for average not higly promoted players it's 500 damage.
You want to nerf "barrier" on AW because it makes him too tanky, but on the other hand 100% uptime of high value barrier for 4 players on virtuoso is "ok"?
Virtuoso can make even assassin a tank, how you want to nerf that?

[TheThirdRace]

AW only role is tanking.
You want to nerf his only reason of existence in DAIMP. Why should I take "nerfed" aw instead of keeper, elementalist, virtuoso or even necro? Give me a reason. Even for now AW it's not worth. AW needs badly bug fixing.
As for the "barrier" value. 2k worth barrier is around 4 arrows. Damage vs barrier is higher due to lack of armor bonus, for average not higly promoted players it's 500 damage.
You want to nerf "barrier" on AW because it makes him too tanky, but on the other hand 100% uptime of high value barrier for 4 players on virtuoso is "ok"?
Virtuoso can make even assassin a tank, how you want to nerf that?

I think you misunderstand my intentions.

I'm all for giving back as much DPS as possible to him, I think he was just good the way he was. I find the Barrier and Guard nerf on Spirit Blade was more than enough to make it balanced, I would have kept the 10 mana cost and 400% weapon damage. It's a shame he got the shaft on something unrelated to his "overpowerness".

I don't want to "nerf" the Arcane Warrior, I'm just saying it shouldn't be able to be invincible with a 99% uptime.

Let's give you an example of why I ask for total Barrier to be "nerfed" instead of Fade Shield. I'll even take your numbers with a Barrier of 2K and 500 damages per arrow. What I'm saying is that 2K Barrier can be replenished several times over 10 seconds so the Arcane Warrior doesn't really have a 2K Barrier, he has an effective Barrier of maybe 10K over 10 seconds. Now think about what is the effective Barrier when you get the best staff which grants a bit more than 4K Barrier? The "effectiveness" is too high, lowering the total Barrier by 50% wouldn't keep you from maxing Barrier easily and keeping you alive in "normal" circumstances. The only thing that would change is that you wouldn't be able to stand in the middle of 12 Archers, 3 Brutes, 5 Spell Binders and a Real Templar Commander spinning AND laugh at them because your Barrier will never break.

I really don't want the Arcane Warrior to be nerfed, but if it has to be, I prefer the problem to be addressed at the source. I don't want them to nerf skills like Spirit Blade or passive like Fade Shield just because that's an easy way out. If a pipe leaks, you fix the leak at the source, you don't go poke around and build a complicated solution...

I don't understand why people WANT characters to be nerfed. They whine and cry so much over some kind of balance that is not game-breaking. You know what, people still die with the Arcane Warrior. It's hard to believe but some people find a way, they need something overpowered so the game work for them. If you find it dull, just use another character for crying out loud (speaking at people in general)! And yes the Virtuoso is OP, but so are Isabella and Avvar. And so freaking what? I don't mind, have fun with it while it lasts!

I hope this clears up a bit my line of thinking. Feel free to ask if you want more details...

[yarpenthemad21]

I don't want to "nerf" the Arcane Warrior, I'm just saying it shouldn't be able to be invincible with a 99% uptime.

One question:
Why "tank mage" shoudn't in your opinion be a tank? Invincible is a lie, because only fade cloak gives short immune to damage frame.
Everything else is just soaking damage from all sources. Like other tanks should do.
Tank role is to soak damage. Get punishment from enemies. Why in your opinion tank shouldn't be a tank? Tank should do what?
Run away? Hide behind party members?



As for the barrier nerf. It's stupid idea. 2k points in barrier make them last for 2-3 hits. It will break entirely AW ability to tank, because AW lacks CC cleanse moves. His defense is connected with offense, with that low barrier buffer even 1 single cancellation of single spell can just drop down AW.
It would even more force ppl to take fade cloak and probably even fade step.
Plus, main reason why it's stupid idea, is because when you take away "tanking" from tank you have nothing. This type of low barrier would be enough for ranged AW (which is against whole idea of AW), but clearly not enough for melee-tank.

AW in current state need buffs and fixes, not nerfs.

[TheThirdRace]

One question:
Why "tank mage" shoudn't in your opinion be a tank? Invincible is a lie, because only fade cloak gives short immune to damage frame.
Everything else is just soaking damage from all sources. Like other tanks should do.
Tank role is to soak damage. Get punishment from enemies. Why in your opinion tank shouldn't be a tank? Tank should do what?
Run away? Hide behind party members?



As for the barrier nerf. It's stupid idea. 2k points in barrier make them last for 2-3 hits. It will break entirely AW ability to tank, because AW lacks CC cleanse moves. His defense is connected with offense, with that low barrier buffer even 1 single cancellation of single spell can just drop down AW.
It would even more force ppl to take fade cloak and probably even fade step.
Plus, main reason why it's stupid idea, is because when you take away "tanking" from tank you have nothing. This type of low barrier would be enough for ranged AW (which is against whole idea of AW), but clearly not enough for melee-tank.

AW in current state need buffs and fixes, not nerfs.

Man you're really twisting my words... what is wrong with you?

[yarpenthemad21]

Man you're really twisting my words... what is wrong with you?

What's wrong with you? Why you want to nerf "tank" element from tank?

Have you even though about how ppl with not "best" in slot staff would play as AW with your suggested nerf.

max_barrier = (base_damage + 10) * 48 - 300

you want it nerfed for 50%.
If you take fury of the veil you would end with 1722 worth barrier. 3 hits worth barrier.
Your idea of nerf would hit under promoted players even more. PPl with high cunning can still laugh at damage because it works on barrier. They still have higher dps and defense and nerf won't change anything for them. Why you want to nerf another viable class in this game for undergeared and underpromoted players?

[TheThirdRace]

Why you want to nerf another viable class in this game for undergeared and underpromoted players?

The question is, why do you think I want to nerf any character when I stated clearly numerous times I don't want to?

All I said is that *** IF *** they have to nerf a character, they should do it at the source of the problem.

[yarpenthemad21]

The question is, why do you think I want to nerf any character when I stated clearly numerous times I don't want to?

All I said is that *** IF *** they have to nerf a character, they should do it at the source of the problem.

I don't see any reason to make this IF happen. AW isn't op, it's just viable. Compared to other mages he is even in low tier.

First we need bug fixing. We don't even see full "theoretical" potential of AW. Mostly stone fist detonation, which should boost damage a lot, make even full caster build better.
Second we need do some "cleaning" on passive side - 2 passive boosting armor, not point in them at all.
Next is Guardian Spirit. On AW it looks just not that needed, on the other hand on necro it would be great (still probably it don't work with her "ghost" passive...)
And last is idea behind SB. It should be his main skill. Maybe starting with making it unblockable would be nice. Maybe tweaking animation so it's a little bit faster with lower aftercast would also help. I don't have generic idea for remake SB, both version (hard hitting and expensive, low hitting and cheap) has their use. Either way in close combat, face to face AW should be the king, not some ninja venatori...
After that we can check how AW plays and works. If we see that it's OP, we can think about some nerf.

[Mahrs]

I'm sure I was supposed to read some rules and make an intro post somewhere...but, I'm transitioning jobs and haven't had anyone yell at me for a little while and I feel like that's missing in my life, so here goes.

 

Due to a variety of connection issues and some anti-social tendencies, I am a low level DAMP guy with mostly +crap gear.  I'm so Noob I don't even have all the classes unlocked.  I saw that as a full disclosure thing - I love video games, but I'm a casual gamer.

 

From my perspective, DAMP is a grinder's paradise.  The whole thing is built around aggregating enough time in game to promote classes and win the RNG lotto for gear.  Invariably, you need to make the game so that it's accessible right off the bat.  However, a Day 1 playable setup becomes an Uber Day 30 setup after your power gamers have wrung out every efficiency - that's just the nature of the beast.  This reality demands either increasingly challenging modes/maps/mobs to keep up with players that rock out high end gear and big stat boosts, or,  ultimately, you get high level players that are "game breakers".  The trouble with that, of course, is that it takes a lot longer to code new content than it does to conquer new content.  It's an arms race that the developer never wins, despite their best intentions.  Enter the "nerf" - and the common gripe for Mr. Casual.  Trying to re-balance the game for high end players usually leaves low end players SOL.  There's nothing inherently wrong with a game that rewards the grind, it's more or less expected now that hardcore types get to be Uber for their trouble.  I admire that Bioware is trying to get it right with DAMP, understanding that once you start tweaking you'll always be working with a 90% solution.

That said, here are a couple bitches/gripes/complaints/thoughts that may resonate with some.

DAI, in general, doesn't feel like much of an RPG, and that's particularly true of the MP.  There's not much to be done here, of course, but something to work towards in a future rebalance/tweak would be Armor values.  I feel like the Armor rating is currently and underused mechanic that would provide an excellent avenue for tweaking the defense/survivability of individual classes.  Additionally, customizing armor with class unique options that synergize provides Uber guys something else to acquire and configure to suit different play styles within a class as well as different play styles for different parties/situations within the same class.  Yes, I recognize this would be a major undertaking and possibly not feasible...what can I say, I'm an idealist. 

 

RNG and items.  I cannot pretend to understand the nuances of this system.  However, having to rely on random chance and time spent to upgrade my gear without any objective I can actively work to = sad face.  Like I said earlier - I'm casual, so I get a few hours here and there to play.  It wouldn't do much to keep Uber guys from being OP, but it'd be nice if I had a mechanism other than luck to obtain gear.  Crafting?  You'd still need to grind mats, but having some control over equipping gear that isn't the starting level garbage would be nice.  I'd looked forward to the carry over of this mechanic from the single player and was disappointed.  Such is life.

Arcane Warrior.  Ah...being an unread Noobtasitic player, I hadn't been keeping up with all the changes to this class.  I loved playing KE during the single player game and I was excited to unlock the AW in MP.  Imagine my disappointment the first time I attempted to use Spirit Blade.  Maybe awesome gear makes it better, but right now it's a wasted skill for me.  That's a little sad, because it's supposed to be the cool, integrated part of the AW class.  I cannot think of a situation I wouldn't rather have Stone Fist.  It might just be my play style and my crap tier gear, but my experience thus far has been - SB = embarrassing death, SF = team saving life.  No idea what to do about that - I'm not a high level guy, clearly, so I cannot comment on how SB affects balance for Uber guys.

 

Duelist.  Nice.  Just a fun class to play with a really cool and unique hook.  Loved Izzy in DA2, happy to see her return.  The sword/pistol combo is enough cool+fun to make me want to lean on Izzy in spite of the fact that my only decent piece of gear is the Griffon bow I lucked into.

 

Dialog.  Duelist, Avvar and Virtuoso show just how good the dialog can be...why not freshen up the repertoire of some of the others.

 

Lastly, Happy Father's Day.  All my stuff is packed for a move, so no killing imaginary baddies for me.  Have enough fun to make up for my missing out. =)

[CitizenThom]

Anyone notice that lightning seems to be giving barrier to AW? It definitely helps AW's survivability in the presence of archers. Don't know if it was a balance change or a handy glitch... hopefully it stays if it wasn't intended.

[Angelus_de_Mortiel]

Anyone notice that lightning seems to be giving barrier to AW? It definitely helps AW's survivability in the presence of archers. Don't know if it was a balance change or a handy glitch... hopefully it stays if it wasn't intended.

 

I am not sure what you mean... If you are referring to Chain Lightning working with Fade Shield, it always has. Fade Shield converts 30% of all damage from the Arcane Warrior into Barrier.

[Angelus_de_Mortiel]

AW only role is tanking.

 

I would note that in the min/max game, the AW may likely feel only useful as a tank. I personally think his crowd-control capabilities are pretty impressive too, but I also don't play the min/max game.

[TheThirdRace]

Anyone notice that lightning seems to be giving barrier to AW? It definitely helps AW's survivability in the presence of archers. Don't know if it was a balance change or a handy glitch... hopefully it stays if it wasn't intended.

I am not sure what you mean... If you are referring to Chain Lightning working with Fade Shield, it always has. Fade Shield converts 30% of all damage from the Arcane Warrior into Barrier.

I think he's talking about Stormbringer (passive 300% Weapon Damage every 15 seconds). In that case, yes it's normal because it's damage you deal and it's been there from day 1.

I'm not aware of any other source of Lightning except for the skills and that passive everybody always forget...

[FRZN]

Or just make spirit blade not count toward fade cloak shield and deal more damage. That might REALLY ****** some people off.

Or you could leave fade shield the same. Buff the spirit blade, and make it consume barrier instead of mana. So you build the barrier with other skills then burn off barrier with spirit blade. But you would have to buff the damage to make it worth losing your shield.

Or go the opposite route and make other abilities only generate a small amount of barrier and have spirit blade generate an enhanced amount.

Or replace gathering storm with flashpoint so spamming SB quickly cools down your other abilities.

 

Or make it a detonator and fantastic at stripping barrier/guard, but poor normal damage.

The problem with spirit blade imo is that it is a basic spammable attack that competes with the rest of the AW's active ability when it needs to be a specialized tool in order to mesh with them instead.  Right now its specialized role is supposed to be filler but it's a poor fit for that role because it's melee on a mostly ranged kit and offers little benefit over staying at range and using basic attacks.

Lowest dps mage, lack CC and damage. All AW can do is tanking.

The AW does not tank because it doesn't generate the aggro to keep enemies off the rest of the team.  What the AW does is sleep, nightmare, stagger, knockdown, PoTA, weaken, shock, dispel, and that seizure thing from static charge.  Fear, chill, and projectile deflection too but those can be discounted.  Stonefist not working as a detonator is a bug and near the top of Luke's list of things to fix, and once that happens the AW will be the only class besides templar (edit: and ele, as gya points out) capable of doing an advanced combo with all comboable status effects.

[Gya]

Or go the opposite route and make other abilities only generate a small amount of barrier and have spirit blade generate an enhanced amount.

Or replace gathering storm with flashpoint so spamming SB quickly cools down your other abilities.

Or make it a detonator and fantastic at stripping barrier/guard, but poor normal damage.

The problem with spirit blade imo is that it is a basic spammable attack that competes with the rest of the AW's active ability when it needs to be a specialized tool in order to mesh with them instead. Right now its specialized role is supposed to be filler but it's a poor fit for that role because it's melee on a mostly ranged kit and offers little benefit over staying at range and using basic attacks.
The AW does not tank because it doesn't generate the aggro to keep enemies off the rest of the team. What the AW does is sleep, nightmare, stagger, knockdown, PoTA, weaken, shock, dispel, and that seizure thing from static charge. Fear, chill, and projectile deflection too but those can be discounted. Stonefist not working as a detonator is a bug and near the top of Luke's list of things to fix, and once that happens the AW will be the only class besides templar capable of doing an advanced combo with all comboable status effects.

When stonefist is fixed as a detonator.... elementalist lightning bolt + stonefist. There will be more discharge than at an STD clinic.

[Silversmurf]

Stonefist not working as a detonator is a bug and near the top of Luke's list of things to fix, and once that happens the AW will be the only class besides templar (edit: and ele, as gya points out) capable of doing an advanced combo with all comboable status effects.

 

Is there a full list of combo available by class and what are the most powerful ones to use etc.?

 

The DAMP resource library one is ok info but it's not an idiots guide (as I have proved)

 

[yarpenthemad21]

Is there a full list of combo available by class and what are the most powerful ones to use etc.?
 
The DAMP resource library one is ok info but it's not an idiots guide (as I have proved)
 

http://forum.bioware...mbat-mechanics/

combos part

[Angelus_de_Mortiel]

When stonefist is fixed as a detonator.... elementalist lightning bolt + stonefist. There will be more discharge than at an STD clinic.

 

I use Lightning Bolt and Static Charge passive on my Elementalist and detonate it them with Stonefist constantly. It does no damage, but it does have a nice AoE knockdown. Once it's fixed, it will be amazing.

 

Oh, and don't discount Static Charge. I notice that when casting Stonefist in CQC, the enemy I am targeting will try to hit my while I'm casting Stonefist, thus triggering Static Charge. It takes it from being simple Spirit Damage + Knockdown to a Discharge combo without having to do anything extra. I hit more Discharge combos off Static Charge than Lightning Bolt by far.

 

Is there a full list of combo available by class and what are the most powerful ones to use etc.?

 

The DAMP resource library one is ok info but it's not an idiots guide (as I have proved)

 

 

The link Yarpen pointed you is the source of the combo damage numbers in my Beginner's Guide, but while the Weaken Combo (Stun + Eldritch) is hands-down the best for damage (the reason why the Templar combo is so popular), I do say that you should not discount Discharge and Nightmare combos 

 

Discharge Combo (Paralyze + Impact/Precision) has a nice AoE knockdown and Nightmare (Sleep + Eldritch) inflicts panic. That crowd-control is super useful at times, and the Nightmare combo is pretty easy to inflict on entire groups (i.e. Knockout Bomb + Dispel).

 

The rest (Rupture and Shatter) are nice for extra damage, but that's really it.

[A-T-R-A]

I would like to see some kind of buff to Sleeping Powder.  Maybe increase the size of the cloud? I don't know if that is possible at this point. Maybe allow more damage before wake up (with the upgrade).  Maybe decrease the cooldown.  Any one of these 3 changes might make it more viable. I just feel like since it is the only CC in the Hunter Skill Trees that it should be a little better.

[Texasmotiv]

I can see a nerf incoming when they fix stonefist detonations. Its pretty awesome as it is. I can't imagine its supreme power once it actually does damage from detonates.

[Luke Barrett]

I can see a nerf incoming when they fix stonefist detonations. Its pretty awesome as it is. I can't imagine its supreme power once it actually does damage from detonates.

[Gya]

NONONONONONNONONONONOOOOOO!

My saltiness! The rustling of my jimmies!

I love stonefist on the ele, pls don't nerf it so I have to be another chaotic focus + fire mine clone. I will sacrifice more AW abilities to St BLuke. Pls accept dis fade shield.

[HeroicMass]

  

[Proto]

 

  

 

[DrakeHasNoFlow]

More QQ incoming......

[yarpenthemad21]

I can see a nerf incoming when they fix stonefist detonations. Its pretty awesome as it is. I can't imagine its supreme power once it actually does damage from detonates.

It depends how it will be fixed.
1. For now it looks like single target detonator, detonating only target of spell, not in aoe radius.
2. damage% on impact detonations varies a lot, from small numbers like 200% to 600%. For warriors in most cases those numbers are good enough, for mage? Nope.
For example discharge is 300%, for a mage it would be damage like from single hit of CL with ring. I wouldn't call this damage OP really...

Single target detonation is probably cause by nature of spell, which gains aoe nature with upgrade. I would probably prefer aoe detonations with lower damage on stone fist instead of single target with higher damage.