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Rise of the Tomb Raider


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#76
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MS didn't really steal that.

 

Bad choice of words, yeah...  Too bad Playstation fans don't get it, because Insomniac is like a staple for the PS.



#77
LPPrince

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Bad choice of words, yeah...  Too bad Playstation fans don't get it, because Insomniac is like a staple for the PS.

 

If I had it my way everyone would get to play anything. If only it were possible;games the quality of exclusives could still be made but everyone could play them and there wouldn't be any stupid fanboys going on about one console or platform being better than another.



#78
OdanUrr

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Someone should redo this latest teaser but with Batman's music (from the movies) playing when Lara gets to the top. :D


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#79
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Someone should redo this latest teaser but with Batman's music (from the movies) playing when Lara gets to the top. :D

 

With Kevin Conroy's voice as the narrator.

 

Nothing is cheesy when Kevin is saying it.



#80
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I've never really discussed the industry with you before.

 

My only beef with your response is that it's the same thing over and over.

 

My most fondest recollection of our verbal sparring was when you were fixed on your expertise on sociological theory and refuted anything I'd say with ambiguous crap like "you have to look deeper" or "you simply don't understand" or "there's a far-reaching subtext."

 

In Critical Thinking we call that a weak argument. There's no special name for it like Strawman or Ad Homein or whatever. It's simply a baseless reason backed on a meta-knowledge of your own design wherein anyone who can't agree with your point of view is filed under some "does not compute" bin since clearly those who are incapable of comprehending your vast wealth of knowledge are idiots.

 

Now in regards to the industry. I'm actually fond of that idea, yes, I wish developers took time in creating a great narrative before deciding on the technicalities or marketing, gameplay and so on. However, as you know, the medium is far trickier than any other to create any story worth telling. Gameplay/story segregation being its toughest call.

 

Factor in the fact that games costs hundreds of millions to even make and your 'art first business later' vision carries little weight. Still, there are companies that can get both things just right, or right enough for the majority to be sort-of-happy with their product.

 

Red Dead Redemption and Fallout New Vegas are two games that I think are excellent examples of how to appeal to both sides of gaming population. The ones like you and I who love a great tale to interact in and the others who love to tinker around, explore, and mess with the gameplay.

 

It's a nice thought, but pretty uncommon and rare to find games that actually tell a great story without having a ton of clunks and chunks in the gears. Planescape: Torment's combat, for example or The Witcher 2's inverse difficulty curve and its less-than-adequate transaction to hack n' slash mechanics.

 

Still, I'm sure Crusty or Jimmy who are clearly more qualified than me would have tons more to say and most probably at a higher tier as well.

 

Again, I'm looking forward to this game. I liked the reboot and the action.

 

Just that this trailer smelled of more cheese than an Orlesian food orgy.

 

Good point. But why I'm saying this is not because I feel that you're too stupid to understand,  It's basically me saying that you're looking at things in the wrong way. That could happen to me as well. No one is an exception. What I'm saying is that yes, Most companies put profit ahead of quality, I agree, But what i disagree with is when you mistake narrative necessities for compromises for no obvious reason. I'm not saying that it doesn't happen, It happens, But there's no need to be trigger happy criticizing something without analyzing all the possible scenarios first. That's just prejudice. "And that's also why i use that word quite a lot". But i don't think that was the case with the Tomb Raider reboot and I have explained why.



#81
OdanUrr

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With Kevin Conroy's voice as the narrator.

 

Nothing is cheesy when Kevin is saying it.

 

Well, I was going for the comedic angle so I would've used the voice from the movies too. Can you imagine it?


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#82
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Well, I was going for the comedic angle so I would've used the voice from the movies too. Can you imagine it?

 

No man.

 

You can't.

 

That would practically kill people from laughter.

 

But there's no need to be trigger happy criticizing something without analyzing all the possible scenarios first. That's just prejudice.

 

Prejudice, huh?

 

Well, it wasn't exactly like Riven didn't have a point.

 

The Reboot was designed to cater towards a more 'casual' audience or whatever.

 

My guess is that this will do the same.

 

And why not? I don't think its gameplay was the result of its misfortunes. But perhaps it'll try to reel in the older TR fans by introducing a far more complex 'Tomb system' or whatever.



#83
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No man.

 

You can't.

 

That would practically kill people from laughter.

 

 

 

 

Prejudice, huh?

 

Well, it wasn't exactly like Riven didn't have a point.

 

The Reboot was designed to cater towards a more 'casual' audience or whatever.

 

My guess is that this will do the same.

 

And why not? I don't think its gameplay was the result of its misfortunes. But perhaps it'll try to reel in the older TR fans by introducing a far more complex 'Tomb system' or whatever.

 

Missing the point, The point is things like this can and will happen. But, Just because someone mistakes narrative necessities for compromises does not make them compromises. And since neither you or me have that much info to what was going on during the game development process, You can't jump to conclusions. You can only put possible scenarios and see which one is the most accurate as the franchise goes ahead. For example, I'm thinking of the gameplay and story as two sides of the same coin that they both influence each others and that could be the case. The case could also be that they're being lazy. I could be right and i could be wrong. Nothing bad about that. What bugs me is that some people think their opinion is more valid than others despite the fact that their assumptions have no real evidence.



#84
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Good point. But why I'm saying this is not because I feel that you're too stupid to understand,  It's basically me saying that you're looking at things in the wrong way. That could happen to me as well. No one is an exception. What I'm saying is that yes, Most companies put profit ahead of quality, I agree, But what i disagree with is when you mistake narrative necessities for compromises for no obvious reason. I'm not saying that it doesn't happen, It happens, But there's no need to be trigger happy criticizing something without analyzing all the possible scenarios first. That's just prejudice. "And that's also why i use that word quite a lot". But i don't think that was the case with the Tomb Raider reboot and I have explained why.

Looking at things the wrong way just comes off as a nicer way of telling someone they don't get it. This different toilet, same sh*t thing you have going on is exactly what Sim was talking about.



#85
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Looking at things the wrong way just comes off as a nicer way of telling someone they don't get it. This different toilet, same sh*t thing you have going on is exactly what Sim was talking about.

 

Well, They do not really get it. It's really the same thing. And yes, Sometimes people don't get it. I have already explained my concept of prejudice.



#86
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This different toilet, same sh*t thing you have going on is exactly what Sim was talking about.

So scoop it out of one and put it in another? Gross man.
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#87
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Necessities for compromises? I think you need to lay off on that one, it makes no sense at first glance.

 

So what you're saying is that the gameplay given to us in the reboot was either one of these two?

 

You have to make these things clearer in your posts.

 

So if it was necessary... I disagree. I think you can tell a decent story any way you want to.

 

If it was a compromise...Yes and no. Compromises can be seen everywhere, just take a look at DA2, it's full of them. Design choices are either made in the beginning or need to be jumbled around. Something as vital as combat is obviously going to be discussed on the start. So it's entirely reasonable for me to 'jump to' the conclusion that the TR reboot was designed like that from the get go.


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#88
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What I liked the most about the new Lara is they emphasized her will and endurance... and insanity, if you will. She isn't exactly the acrobatic virtuoso of the past games. She just feels like she's fighting through every moment. I wonder if she becomes like the original Lara in this new game.



#89
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What I liked the most about the new Lara is they emphasized her will and endurance... and insanity, if you will. She isn't exactly the acrobatic virtuoso of the past games. She just feels like she's fighting through every moment. I wonder if she becomes like the original Lara in this new game.

 

Yeah, that was cool.

 

All that game really needed was less combat and more sneaky sneaky 'omg omg they're gonna kill me' moments.

 

But.

 

That all went out the window when she screamed "COME ON YOU BASTARDS" and I instantly fell in love.

 

So that's why.

 

I want to Lara

 

Into her

 

Croft

 

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#90
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Necessities for compromises? I think you need to lay off on that one, it makes no sense at first glance.

 

So what you're saying is that the gameplay given to us in the reboot was either one of these two?

 

You have to make these things clearer in your posts.

 

So if it was necessary... I disagree. I think you can tell a decent story any way you want to.

 

If it was a compromise...Yes and no. Compromises can be seen everywhere, just take a look at DA2, it's full of them. Design choices are either made in the beginning or need to be jumbled around. Something as vital as combat is obviously going to be discussed on the start. So it's entirely reasonable for me to 'jump to' the conclusion that the TR reboot was designed like that from the get go.

 

Not what i meant. What i meant to say that you're stranded on an unknown island that has militias running it. So, You surely are going to shoot a lot of people. That's why the story affects the narrative and gameplay.

 

The problem is that you're jumping to conclusions based on what your own mind has created about the game. That there's little to no evidence to support such accusations, And yet, People keep insisting that they're right. That's what bugs me. You see, When i talk about something that's theoretical, Something that isn't certain yet, I don't state my opinions or deductions as facts, I state them as possibilities, And when i have enough evidence to make the whole story plausible, I talk about it openly but yet I'd still open to changing my mind because that's essentially what debates are all about, Finding the truth. Not a pissing contest. So, When you state that TR devs changed the gameplay style because they want more money is exactly a heavy accusation and you actually have to have hard evidence to support it or it's just a wild thought that could be right or wrong.



#91
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What I liked the most about the new Lara is they emphasized her will and endurance... and insanity, if you will. She isn't exactly the acrobatic virtuoso of the past games. She just feels like she's fighting through every moment. I wonder if she becomes like the original Lara in this new game.

She was a spinning ball of death. I wish there'll be a dual pistol style. 


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#92
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Yeah, I love the moment when she flips out at the end like that.

 

...

 

I wouldn't doubt the dual pistols make a comeback eventually.


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#93
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The problem is that you're jumping to conclusions based on what your own mind has created about the game.

 

Man you gotta just stop with this shyt.

 

I'm giving you a chance here cos you're giving it all you got and it'd be a dickmove to go 'lolno.'

 

But damn is that annoying.

 

Stop telling people what their 'minds' have supposedly 'created.'

 

Makes you seem pretentious as fuark.

 

 

 

Not what i meant. What i meant to say that you're stranded on an unknown island that has militias running it. So, You surely are going to shoot a lot of people. That's why the story affects the narrative and gameplay.

 

Oh.

 

Should have said that in the first place instead of coming up with some sort of catchphrase.

 

 

 

That there's little to no evidence to support such accusations, And yet, People keep insisting that they're right. That's what bugs me. You see, When i talk about something that's theoretical, Something that isn't certain yet, I don't think my opinions or deductions as facts, I state them as possibilities,

 

Well with the way you write it certainly does give off that you are doing exactly all of those things.

 

But I digress.

 

I see what you're saying, but let me turn the tables and say 'you're thinking to small?'

 

The game could have been a thousand things. That's the beauty of the medium that you can practically tell most stories in different ways based on the design choices and development of the team.

 

Tomb Raider could have had all those cool things I liked and still have been about a Tomb Raider with focus on... y'know... tombs and stuff? 

 

 

 

So, When you state that TR devs changed the gameplay style because they want more money is exactly a heavy accusation and you actually have to have hard evidence to support it or it's just a wild though that could be right or wrong.

 

Well yeah, like I said.

 

It's deductive reasoning, it's the only way you can come up with conclusions.

 

Hard evidence is kind of hard to find. PR stuff isn't reliable and only some sort of personal interview will come up with anything solid.

 

Us gamers do what we can with what we have.

 

Besides, you're using accusation too harshly.

 

I'm not saying it was a bad thing.

 

I'm saying that X did Y like that because they wanted to in order to bring larger revenue.

 

Not hatin' yo.

 

 


Yeah, I love the moment when she flips out at the end like that.

 

...

 

I wouldn't doubt the dual pistols make a comeback eventually.

 

Didn't she dual wield in the last boss?



#94
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Didn't she dual wield in the last boss?

 

Maybe you're right. I can't remember anything now.....except lots of ninjas..



#95
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Maybe you're right. I can't remember anything now.....except lots of ninjas..

 

Not even them delicious boobies?

 

lara_croft___tomb_raider_survival_editio



#96
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Man you gotta just stop with this shyt.

 

I'm giving you a chance here cos you're giving it all you got and it'd be a dickmove to go 'lolno.'

 

But damn is that annoying.

 

Stop telling people what their 'minds' have supposedly 'created.'

 

Makes you seem pretentious as fuark.

 

 

 

 

Oh.

 

Should have said that in the first place instead of coming up with some sort of catchphrase.

 

 

 

Well, First of all, I'm not giving it all i got or anything, I'm just discussing. And secondly, As i have stated before i don't really care what do you think and how you see me, So, Stop using that point. And thirdly, I'm not telling people how they're supposed to think, I'm telling people not to judge based on nothing and yet claim insistently that you're right. It's just plain wrong.

 

 

Well with the way you write it certainly does give off that you are doing exactly all of those things.

But I digress.


I see what you're saying, but let me turn the tables and say 'you're thinking to small?'

The game could have been a thousand things. That's the beauty of the medium that you can practically tell most stories in different ways based on the design choices and development of the team.


Tomb Raider could have had all those cool things I liked and still have been about a Tomb Raider with focus on... y'know... tombs and stuff?

 

I really advise you to be more serious because I don't see how that is relevant to the argument.

 

 

Well yeah, like I said.

It's deductive reasoning, it's the only way you can come up with conclusions.


Hard evidence is kind of hard to find. PR stuff isn't reliable and only some sort of personal interview will come up with anything solid.

Us gamers do what we can with what we have.


Besides, you're using accusation too harshly.

I'm not saying it was a bad thing.


I'm saying that X did Y like that because they wanted to in order to bring larger revenue.

Not hatin' yo.

 

And that's something that shouldn't be considered to be right.



#97
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Not even them delicious boobies?

 

 

 

Sim, Stop with the sexism.



#98
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Well, First of all, I'm not giving it all i got or anything, I'm just discussing.

 

Well I really meant you're taking your time to discuss something when you could be doing something else.

 

So it's nice.

 

And secondly, As i have stated before i don't really care what do you think and how you see me, So, Stop using that point.

 

Do you not want people to read your comments without brainfarts?

 

I'm not telling people how they're supposed to think, I'm telling people not to judge based on nothing and yet claim insistently that you're right. It's just plain wrong.

 

Hahah I never said that.

 

I said you're telling people how they're supposedly thinking.

 

Like some sort of psychic or whatever.

 


If you want to criticize something, You have to have all the info

 

Yeah.

 

It's called playing the game and deductive reasoning from playing said game.

 

Deductive reasoning is totally viable to build your case, by the way.

 

Also.

 

There's no criticism going on here, I'm just handing out my critique.

 

Criticism would imply that I actually disprove of their changes when I've stated I don't give af since I liked it.

 

But I can still see Riven's POV.

 


I really advise you to be more serious because I don't see how that is relevant to the argument.

 

Being serious has lead to no where.

 

I'm really just simplifying stuff.

 

I like to do that; not as an insult to your own intelligence.

 

But to help a multi-tasking dude at 3:30am.

 

Reading Light Novels about Wolves and stuff, yo.

 

It also helps make the mood lighter.

 

I hate discussions with a dense atmosphere.



#99
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Sim, Stop with the sexism.

 

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#100
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I'll be waiting for that hopefully but far far away PC port.