342 réponses à ce sujet

[Master Warder Z_]

Pfft its inaccurate.

Using hype words doesn't change your evicting a hostile isolationist force from the lands their illegally squatting on

[midnight tea]

Pfft its inaccurate.

Using hype words doesn't change your evicting a hostile isolationist force from the lands their illegally squatting on

 

Well then let's use another word - massacre. 

[Lulupab]

Stop worshiping Gaspard and Orlais.

 

Gaspard will be gutted easily by the crows if he offends them. His armies will mean squat when he finds a dagger beneath his throat when he is sleeping. Everyone has to sleep. Or even an Orlesian assassin could do it, as always Cunning and intrigue will defeat military, SPECIALLY when its Orlais, the center of it.

 

And in Qunari wars, Orlais' military played no greater role that the army of other nation. The extensive joining of mages plus a full front of Qunari navi getting defeated by Antivan pirates is what turned the tide.

 

Orlais is only slightly stronger and with good leadership aka Loghian or Nevarran general who conquered (whoever it was) that slight advantage can be nullified.

[Master Warder Z_]

Well then let's use another word - massacre.

Only if they refuse.

Naturally

[andy6915]

Well... That opening post certainly gutted my hype to eventually play an elven Inquisitor.

[phyreblade74]

No, you are presented the choice of whether Mahariel is that way or if Mahariel is totally fine with letting the humans in the prologue go away without doing any harm to them at all. The game doesn't treat one as more or less valid a choice than the other.

 

 

And the first thing Tamlen talks about is bandits, so this is not automatically a case of the elves being murderous - it is at least as likely that it means that you've defended your clan from humans trying to murder them before.

 

Nope.  Mahariel is very ably and willingly holding up that bow and arrow.  I didn't introduce her that way, shrug.  You can choose to interpret that particular scene however you want, Bowie.  I chose differently, is all.  There's nothing inherently wrong with either option, if you ask me.

[Bowie Hawkins]

Nope.  Mahariel is very ably and willingly holding up that bow and arrow.  

 

And that is not the same thing as being dogged, or anti-human, or head-in-the-past, or snotty, or arrogant. It's the same thing as her holding a bow or arrow, and it's just as likely that she's got an arrow nocked because she's had to defend her clan from bands of murderous humans in the past as anything else.

[phyreblade74]

And that is not the same thing as being dogged, or anti-human, or head-in-the-past, or snotty, or arrogant. It's the same thing as her holding a bow or arrow, and it's just as likely that she's got an arrow nocked because she's had to defend her clan from bands of murderous humans in the past as anything else.

 

As I have said REPEATEDLY.  Interpret the scene however you choose.  There are two very viable options right there that you can pick from, after all.  I picked the option that made the most sense TO ME.  My very own Mahariel was anti-human and even arrogant in her pro-Dalish attitudes.  See how incredible an RPG can be, that two people get to see the same story from such varied angles?  Isn't that cool?

[Sifr]

And that is not the same thing as being dogged, or anti-human, or head-in-the-past, or snotty, or arrogant. It's the same thing as her holding a bow or arrow, and it's just as likely that she's got an arrow nocked because she's had to defend her clan from bands of murderous humans in the past as anything else.

 

Of which, we only have Duncan's vague comment during the opening narration, that suggests you have had prior encounters with humans before. This is far from any dialogue option that has Mahariel mentioning such encounters or needing to defend themselves... compared to the very real dialogue options about killing one or more of the humans in front of them, after having just chased them through the woods.

 

Bowie, no-one is saying that Mahariel is a xenophobic bigot, just that you can't deny that those options exist and that the character was written to include that characterisation if you so chose? I like Mahariel, but even I can see how people might dislike them based on that interpretation?

 

Same with how Brosca can be either a ruthless thug or a hitman with a heart, or how Aeducan and Cousland can be either the wise prince or a royal brat? It's really how you play them or interpret them, but both are true with how they're written and the options they're given.

[dragonflight288]

 

Geography my friend.

Look at the map.

There is no easy invasion point of Orlais, to steam a armada that far south? To cross the free marches and waking sea...or Tevinter and Nevarra?

The Qunari wouldn't reach Orlais in shape enough to conquer it...or likely even threaten it.

 

And yet the last time they invaded, it took an alliance of nations to push them back, and they only retreated because of the collateral damage to the local populace.

 

 

Considering that Qunari are masters of breaking or "programming" people I highly doubt that those who know the secret of creating the gunpowder are that easy to pull information from. PLUS, smuggling and hiding a few knowledgeable people is less risky and more effective in the long run, unlike transporting large quantities of gaatlok from Seheron.

 

Also - no, I don't assume they can make a long travel without ressuply; I just think they're just meticulous enough to take care of it before the invasion, or before any major force will realize that the bulk of their force is about to enter waters near their kingdoms. They don't have to sail near shores after they pass Rivain after all. And they DEFINITELY don't have to enter Rialto Bay, which is the only way Antiva would notice something's fishy going on. Might as well sail far enough and enter Brecillian forest, only to resupply themselves, rebuild strength and attack weakened Ferelden first.

 

The Qunari already have agents throughout the world. Heck, there are even agents among the Inquisition. If Iron Bull saves his men and lets the dreadnought be destroyed, Qunari agents try to kill him on the walls of Skyhold.

 

There's no reason why they don't already have supply drops set up.

[midnight tea]

 

The Qunari already have agents throughout the world. Heck, there are even agents among the Inquisition. If Iron Bull saves his men and lets the dreadnought be destroyed, Qunari agents try to kill him on the walls of Skyhold.

 

There's no reason why they don't already have supply drops set up.

 

 

True!

 

Besides, wasn't Corypheus and his mad plan to get mages, templars and wardens backed by Venatori and demons to conquer South after killing the Divine and assassinating the Empress - which almost worked, I'd like to add, as things were in its finalizing stage - a great example of how unprepared Southern Thedas is for any larger threat? Or how easily it is for someone to meticulously prepare for the invasion with no one in Ferelden or Orlais ever seeing it coming?

[Master Warder Z_]

and they only retreated because of the collateral damage to the local populace.

That's what a single DAO era codex said.

WOT and DA2 went into far greater detail. They retreated because they were cooked in a oven for two hours at 400 degrees Feirinheit done.

Their navy was a wreck with no operations base outside of Par Vollen, Tevinter had killed their northern invasion and with the free marches liberated they were on the defensive because Thedas was winning.

Rivain was reclaimed a inch at a time until lo and behold! The only Qunari presence in Thedas? A single besieged fort.

I don't even know how some can spin that as a cessation of hostilities even, the Qunari were on the losing end by the time the war reached its conclusion.

[Jedi Master of Orion]

And Thedas had expended nearly all their strength to reach that point. The fact that the Qunari had been pushed almost all the way back to pre-war borders doesn't necessarily contradict the fact they the reason they signed the Llomerryn Accord was because of the Rivaini deaths.

[Master Warder Z_]

The former soldier in me views it as a propaganda tool; nothing else.

They were done and to salvage the local situation they might have even claimed that but on a capacity to wage war? I'd them as incapable of continuing it, the locals dying in the Free Marches prompted no withdrawal, no they dug in and died.

So how exactly are things different in Rivain? Its their last bastion of power in Thedas, all they likely had left was the good will of the locals.

So how do you maintain that? You cite their protection as reason to end the war, never minding that their armies are decimated, their navy a burnt out hulk and their in full retreat.

[Jedi Master of Orion]

Why would Chantry scholars mention that as the reason then?

[dragonflight288]

Why would Chantry scholars mention that as the reason then?

 

The most logical reason would be that he would be unaware of the Qunari's own dwindling strength, and only saw the losses on his side. 

 

That's the cool thing about Dragon Age. The authors of the codexes are not 100% reliable narrators. 

[Jedi Master of Orion]

The codex is written by Sister Petrine ad she actually explicitly acknowledges that the Qunari suffered a great deal of damage to their soldiers and navy. But she also explicitly says that wasn't the reason for their withdrawal. 

[Master Warder Z_]

*shrugs* then their understanding of war is truly alien, if the civilians dying prompts then to sue for peace.

I'd still say them being unable to continue to wage war was more likely.

[Jedi Master of Orion]

The entire purpose of their war was to bring those civilians to the Qun. If they can't protect the kabethari under their rule and they are killed before they can be enlightened, then the invasion is pointless.

[Master Warder Z_]

But hundreds of thousands had already died...

That makes literally no sense.

[Jedi Master of Orion]

Presumably it wasn't until near the end of the war that the Chantry forces made a point of deliberately targeting civilian populations. Especially since it wouldn't be until late in the war, when they reached that far north, that they would have encountered many civilians that weren't grateful to be liberated from Qunari rule.

[Master Warder Z_]

They weren't civilians but I see the point.

[dragonflight288]

The codex is written by Sister Petrine ad she actually explicitly acknowledges that the Qunari suffered a great deal of damage to their soldiers and navy. But she also explicitly says that wasn't the reason for their withdrawal. 

 

Good point.

[dragonflight288]

They weren't civilians but I see the point.

 

It also makes a lot of sense if you take into account that the Exalted March in Rivain (done by local chantry forces) on the Native Qunari, or those who were born in Rivain and refused to leave the land of their birth, were slaughtered en masse because they refused to convert back to the Chantry, and the event was so bloody and horrific that  the veil was torn, and then the Chantry denied the attack ever took place....

 

Yeah, I can totally see the Andrastian nations targeting civilian centers that refuse to help them in the war against the Qunari, or just plain refuse to convert back to the Chantry. 

[Master Warder Z_]

Again not civilians and legitimate military targets.

In violation of treaty created to end the war or hostile insurgents and irregulars for the enemy.

Either way I'll tell you what I told BBC when they spewed that child killer bullshit at me in that interview.

You pick a rifle and your a soldier regardless of age, race or location. You can be a five year old in a school and that makes you a target, that's modern convention of war.

Medieval convention was similar but less wordy on the legality.