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[Quarian Master Race]

 

"It's my destiny to be in the box!"

"you should come inside the box". 

And by the box Shep means the windowless van.

 

 

It makes me wonder why Shepard can't question his/her squadmates about their lack of action. The ME3 squadmates never cared

The same can be said when facing Ashley/Kaidan during the coup. The squadmates just stand there not speaking up on Shepard's behalf.  

 

Don't forget Rannoch's conclusion, where any squadmate that isn't Tali just stands there looking at the pretty vistas while tons of shite happens 10 feet away. If she's not there, Admiral Raan has to end up saving Shep's arse from the geth going berserk.

[CrutchCricket]

"you should come inside the box". 

And by the box Shep means the windowless van.

"Take care of your box, and it'll take care of you. Treat it gently, don't be rough. Ok?"

[Quarian Master Race]

"Take care of your box, and it'll take care of you. Treat it gently, don't be rough. Ok?"

Ahh Plisken

"sooooo anyway...what's with the box"
"oh....nothing......no big deal"

[StealthGamer92]

I only see a survivor horror type of thing working for a specific mission, rather than permeating throughout the entire game. I feel that Mass Effect would be effectively spoiled if every sequence of combat was basically an Isolation-like experience. This is, after all, a space opera. 

Space opera apparently directed by Rambo.

[Inprea]

I absolutely detest cut scene defeats and inconsistent rules. For me every npc should abide by the same rules throughout the length of the game including bosses. Cut scenes defeats for me are like the GM suddenly overriding the dice or completely ignoring player skills and forcing a certain path and that's a great way to get me to walk away from the table. 

 

So I tend to find these threads asking for cut scenes to make a character appear weaker or force defeats rather disagreeable. Personally I want the game to reflect my ability as a player in terms of combat ability, strategy and readiness. If a timer gives me 10 minutes and I make it out of the blast area in 3 minutes I don't want the last second escape. I just want a nice leisurely walk away because my character destroyed that clock.

 

This may be because I put player agency over the cinematic experience but still these threads always take me back to Suikoden III. One thing I truly loved about this game is they're several very difficult fights that you can lose and the story will still progress. You could even say you're meant to lose them. However, they can be won and while it doesn't change the overall story it does change the cut scene you receive immediately after. 

 

A little comment about the Thessia fight in Mass Effect 3. For me one of the huge issues with that fight is the massive disconnect between the fight, combat before hand and the storyline itself. Like many here I was able to send Kai Leng running for cover in a matter of seconds. To be so utterly defeating someone and then lose during a cinematic moment is utterly maddening for me. Some pointed out that this has been a part of rpgs for a while and that's true but that sure doesn't mean we like it and in my case at least I'd much prefer to see it done away with. 

[dreamgazer]

A little comment about the Thessia fight in Mass Effect 3. For me one of the huge issues with that fight is the massive disconnect between the fight, combat before hand and the storyline itself. Like many here I was able to send Kai Leng running for cover in a matter of seconds. To be so utterly defeating someone and then lose during a cinematic moment is utterly maddening for me.

 

Not really any more or less maddening when battling Saren on Virmire in ME1. Doesn't matter if you ROFLstomp him or not, he still chokes you out, drags you around, and eats up the time you could've spent getting both Kaidan and Ashley away safely.  

[KaiserShep]

Not really any more or less maddening when battling Saren on Virmire in ME1. Doesn't matter if you ROFLstomp him or not, he still chokes you out, drags you around, and eats up the time you could've spent getting both Kaidan and Ashley away safely.  

 

I think this is overlooked a lot mainly because regardless of this, the mission is still a success, albeit at the cost of a squad member. In ME3, it doesn't help that Kai Leng's poor reception as an antagonist and Shepard's fixed dialogue with the councilor in the aftermath sort of exacerbates the whole thing. 

[dreamgazer]

I think this is overlooked a lot mainly because regardless of this, the mission is still a success, albeit at the cost of a squad member. In ME3, it doesn't help that Kai Leng's poor reception as an antagonist and Shepard's fixed dialogue with the councilor in the aftermath sort of exacerbates the whole thing. 

 

Eh, I suppose, but you still didn't stop Saren, which is your real mission. And you permanently lost a squad member in the process, whereas you still get some intelligence from Vendetta and can recover the bulk data lost on Thessia in a matter of a few interconnected missions. 

[Sion1138]

Eh, I suppose, but you still didn't stop Saren, which is your real mission. And you permanently lost a squad member in the process, whereas you still get some intelligence from Vendetta and can recover the bulk data lost on Thessia in a matter of a few interconnected missions. 

 

It's the purpose that counts though. They set up the Virmire thing so that there would be a tough decision there. It wasn't great but I felt that the ends justified the means in that instance.

 

On Thessia, there is no big decision. You're just defeated so that you may 'feel defeated' or something.

[themikefest]

Don't forget Rannoch's conclusion, where any squadmate that isn't Tali just stands there looking at the pretty vistas while tons of shite happens 10 feet away. If she's not there, Admiral Raan has to end up saving Shep's arse from the geth going berserk.

I will also include the Grissom academy mission. If Jack is not in ME3, Ensign Prangley is killed. What were the squadmates doing? Again they were standing around with their  hand/paw/tentacle/claw/whatever up their fifth point of contact doing a whole lot of nothing. Had they been paying attention, they could've provided cover fire while Shepard is helping Rodriquez and Prangley would get to the shuttle without injury. The squadmates never cared

[dreamgazer]

It's the purpose that counts though. They set up the Virmire thing so that there would be a tough decision there. It wasn't great but I felt that the ends justified the means in that instance.

 

It's not a tough decision, though. You're merely picking which one of two squad members will die, not dictating any plot outcomes.  

 

Nothing but raw loss, and heavily railroaded at that. 

[Sion1138]

It's not a tough decision, though. You're merely picking which one of two squad members will die, not dictating any plot outcomes.  

 

Nothing but raw loss, and heavily railroaded at that. 

 

Yeah but I was easy to please back then. And it was something at least, I had to think about it.

 

Thessia was just annoying.

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

I don't really care about harder battles. I like playing video games, but the videogamey part of them can get boring. You can make combat horrendously difficult in sections but that will only satisfy a certain group of people for a while. It also can get frustrating to players who don't have the hand-eye coordination to play that part of the game.

 

I think in a game like  ME3 there needed to be some fail moments and scripted not with plot armor moments as with Kai Lame, but more with changing mission objectives receiving orders from Hackett or another commander while you're on your mission. Maybe the reapers were closing on your position and they couldn't provide covering fire any longer. Get to the extraction zone. But no, you're Shepard. You're in command of the entire war.

 

I'm playing L.A. Noire right now. Fantastic game. Very immersive. The writing was great. The acting in it is great. It's just the opposite of Grand Theft Auto. You're solving cases, and it's really gritty and dark. There's no way to power game through it, and it's best taken in two hr segments like a movie. You can make a game interesting, compelling, and fun without having it be a corridor shooter. You just have to write a good story.

[KaiserShep]

For myself, what makes a battle more enjoyable is its context. If I'm fighting through an enemy I loathe or I'm fighting to save someone else, I'm having more fun. I loved fighting Howe, even though I didn't care much for the combat mechanics itself. The Collector Base is ridiculously easy, but I fancied the notion of saving my crew from monsters so much that I couldn't care less in the beginning.

[dreamgazer]

I'm playing L.A. Noire right now. Fantastic game. Very immersive. The writing was great.

 

Oh, there are a number of people who disagree with that, especially when it comes to the detective work and the general repetition. 

[teh DRUMPf!!]

I saw enough horror in the endings of ME3.  No more, thank you very much.

 

Unless you mean horror from an intellectual standpoint, you need a thicker skin if ME3's ending is "horror" to you.

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

Oh, there are a number of people who disagree with that, especially when it comes to the detective work and the general repetition. 

 

 

It was never intended to duplicate real police work. It was intended to portray a detective story like the way they made movies of them in the 1940s except with 2011 graphics. I can see it can get repetitious after a while, but then again so can shooting your way to a goal. Face it. Any game can get repetitious... like planet scanning in Mass Effect 2. Killing a bunch of mooks to deal with your team's daddy issues in ME2 is repetitious. Grinding your way to Corypheus in DAI - yes I would like to play the game again, just not the whole game - no I don't have a PC version so I can't "cheat".

[N7Jamaican]

If the leak is right, I love the idea of being an N7 graduate tasked with exploring a new frontier.  That we are a "hero in the making" and not an established hero.  I don't want to feel like the baddest MFer as soon as the game starts.  Let there be growing pains.  Let us be able to FAIL and NPCs talk to us like we're nothing...

 

If this isn't in the game, then I can just use my imagination and RP as a side story for MY character.

[Steppenwolf]

Not really any more or less maddening when battling Saren on Virmire in ME1. Doesn't matter if you ROFLstomp him or not, he still chokes you out, drags you around, and eats up the time you could've spent getting both Kaidan and Ashley away safely.

It's handled completely differently. In ME1 Saren is nigh untouchable and you never really see as anything other than untouchable at that point. You don't **** him up before he cutscenes you into submission, you just irritate him. With Kai Leng you see him get his **** kicked in by a dying Thane and get scared off by an injured old guy and rando cop. Then when it comes time to fight him he's easily beaten but the game says "NOPE!" and you have to keep beating him, quite easily, until he cutscenes you into submission. Kai Leng was a failure and not a tough opponent but the game relied on him having plot armor and the ability to wield cutscenes like a ****ing atomic bomb.

[dreamgazer]

It's handled completely differently.

It really isn't.
 

In ME1 Saren is nigh untouchable and you never really see as anything other than untouchable at that point. You don't **** him up before he cutscenes you into submission, you just irritate him.

Disagreed. I ASTERISK him up, with little effort. Until the cutscene tells me otherwise and Shepard gets dragged around and choked like a rag doll.
 

With Kai Leng you see him get his **** kicked in by a dying Thane and get scared off by an injured old guy and rando cop. Then when it comes time to fight him he's easily beaten but the game says "NOPE!" and you have to keep beating him, quite easily, until he cutscenes you into submission. Kai Leng was a failure and not a tough opponent but the game relied on him having plot armor and the ability to wield cutscenes like a ****ing atomic bomb.

Saren was never a "tough opponent" either (even the ridiculous nuisance of hopper Saren), and he wields his own plot armor and "atomic bomb" on Virmire.

[dreamgazer]

It was never intended to duplicate real police work. It was intended to portray a detective story like the way they made movies of them in the 1940s except with 2011 graphics.

http://tvtropes.org/...atchers/LANoire

Eh.

[Steppenwolf]

It really isn't.

It absolutely is. Watch that scene on YouTube.
 

Disagreed. I ASTERISK him up, with little effort. Until the cutscene tells me otherwise and Shepard gets dragged around and choked like a rag doll.

 
You never hurt Saren, you just got on his nerves. He was the biggest badass in the galaxy at that point.

Saren was never a "tough opponent" either (even the ridiculous nuisance of hopper Saren), and he wields his own plot armor and "atomic bomb" on Virmire.

Game difficulty is irrelevant since it varies from person to person. What is relevant is how Saren and Kai Leng were presented and how they behaved before and during these cutscenes.

[BabyPuncher]

Players do not like being defeated in cutscenes against enemies they feel they can win against in gameplay. News at 11.

Obviously a drawback of the video game medium, but I really don't see any great solutions and can't think of any games where such a thing was handled with any particular elegance.

[BabyPuncher]

The bulk of the mass effect trilogy was all about blowing s**t up, stabbing people with Omni-tools, and shooting anything within your cone of vision. If the cutscenes/dialogue wheel were the gravy, than combat was the meat and potatoes (or whatever else you have with gravy... ice cream?) Shepard and his/her 2 squad mates would take on wave after wave of enemies and come out virtually unscathed. Shepard, with his magical plot armour, would laugh in the face of highly trained, armed, and motivated battalions of enemies and cut through them like hot butter. He/She was a force to be reckoned with, and the galaxy trembled at their approach.

Wow, it's almost as if 'the player killing lots of enemies' describes literally just about every action game in existence? From shooters, to hack and slash, to space combat?

This is a very poor analysis.

All of these games involve the player mowing down groups of enemies for one very simple reason. Because it's fun. It's that simple. It's a video game, and video games are constructed to be fun.

I don't particularly like the narrative contrivance of every action video game protagonist being a superhuman who cuts through a thousand enemies. I don't particularly like the contrivances necessary to create a world full of psychotic bandits or mercenaries or whatnot that attempt to gun down the player on sight. But first and foremost, these products are games, and the foremost priority in a game must be entertainment,