287 réponses à ce sujet

[King Killoth]

Im playing threw my Cannon Inquisitor and Im at an impass. I want to know is it worth losing the charger to make an alliance with the Qun or should I let the allince fall to save the charger and keep Bull around as a Tal'vashoth?

[In Exile]

You get a pretty interesting war table storyline if you side with the IB, with a returning DA2 character (but only on the war table, not in person). Or do you mean in the abstract sense?

[King Killoth]

You get a pretty interesting war table storyline if you side with the IB, with a returning DA2 character (but only on the war table, not in person). Or do you mean in the abstract sense?

both..my cannon Inquisitor is a tal'vashoth and knows little no nothing of the qun. Im not sure if I should try to help Bull break away from the Qun or embrace it

[BananaDePijama]

I just can't save the Dreadnought... The cutscenes after that shows a VERY VERY SAD BULL, and I like Bull... So I always save the Chargers.

[The Baconer]

both..my cannon Inquisitor is a tal'vashoth and knows little no nothing of the qun. Im not sure if I should try to help Bull break away from the Qun or embrace it

 

If Iron Bull didn't have the luxury of his position within the Ben-Hassrath he'd probably get brain bleached. Well, worst-case scenario of course.

 

I'd rather have less qunbots in Skyhold.

[c0bra951]

I just played this mission for the first time today (3rd playthrough).  For some reason, I didn't get to trigger Bull's personal quest before.  That was an unexpected tough choice; but in the end, I had to do it Bull's way.  Love his new helmet.

[King Killoth]

ok I have decided to save the chargers

[Vargeisa]

I dunno, Bull said it himself, a good leader is the one willing to make the hard decisions. 

And a Qunari alliance beats a couple of mercenaries any day.

[taylortexas]

The first time I played this, I went with my gut emotional reaction: Save the Chargers.

 

On my second playthrough, I approached this with a more practical mentality. It wasn't about what was best for Bull, it was about what was best for the Inquisition. Now, of course after completing the game the first time I knew that it was totally and perfectly possibly to defeat Corypheus without a qunari alliance. But from a RP perspective, what they offered to bring the table was MUCH more valuable than a band of charming mercenaries. An entire spy network that'll extend my Inquisition's reach even further, or a couple of soldiers who apparently can't hold their own against a couple of Venatori mages? The answer was simple.

 

If it's all about arithmetic, you have seven Chargers versus hundreds of qunari aboard the dreadnought. Sure, they aren't loyal to you. But if it's all about saving lives, again... the answer is simple. For me, atleast.

 

And if you do save the dreadnought, you can ultimately:

 

Spoiler

Save hundreds if not THOUSANDS of lives by preventing the Venatori from burning down half of Denerim. You stop their fireship from getting anywhere near the city and even bring in a couple of survivors for interrogation. I don't think there's any mention of this incident if you save the Chargers -- which is frustrating, but one can assume that without the Inquisition alliance the qunari aren't successful in destroying the fireship, and it kills a lot of people. Furthermore, if you play your cards right you can dismantle the entire Venatori spy ring and remove a lot of Corypheus' key players from the board. Again, no real acknowledgment of their existence/success if you save the Chargers but it doesn't take much headcanon-ing to figure that the qunari don't pull this off without your help. Also, there's correspondence with Tallis (or A Tallis anyway, it's not necessarily the one from DA2) if you like that character. Also you get a really great staff schematic for those who play mages.

 

People seem to think that Bull is much happier if you spare the Chargers. I would say initially, sure. But if you save the dreadnought he ultimately comes to terms with their deaths and accepts that his place has always been with the Qun, not living as Iron Bull. Some think that he's better off as Iron Bull. I'm not a Qun sympathizer myself, so I actually tend to agree with that. However, the alternative also has him looking over his shoulder for the rest of his life, dodging assassins and never being able to return to the place he calls home. It's kind of a lose-lose for the guy.

 

If you're doing what's best for Bull, save the Chargers.

 

If you're doing what's best for the Inquisition (and acting as a responsible leader, IMO), save the dreadnought.

[Jackums]

I always save the dreadnought and establish an alliance.

 

I feel for Bull (he's my bae in all my playthroughs), but I think pragmatically first and foremost, and even though I don't trust the Qunari, the alliance at least creates a bridge between them and the Inquisition, which is a first. So even if the alliance doesn't hold or is disingenuous, it gives us access to information.

 

This is largely prediction/headcanon, but the risk-reward is pretty balanced, IMO, whereas you gain very little but emotional comfort from saving the Chargers, unless you're looking at it from an ethical or moral perspective, which is fair, too. But practically, the alliance seems the most logical choice.

[Ashaantha]

One thing that's sort of cool: If you establish the alliance with the Ben Hassrath (I know, wrong spelling) it is the first time that an alliance has ever happened, so a huge step for Qunari and Inquisition.

I personally hate having charger's die so I only saved Dreadnought once, but it's good to look at it in a in-universe way too.

[DAO MAdhatter]

One word: Krem. This is the only reason I need to save the Chargers. THE. ONLY. ONE.

[KaiserShep]

It's the lack of consequence if you abandon the alliance that's really problematic. Basically, the entire affair just doesn't seem to exist if the Chargers survive. I've looked through as many notes as I could find within the game, but it seems there's nary a word about what went on in Denerim after that one operation to find the Venatori spies. It would've been interesting to get word of the casualties in Denerim to sort of sober up all those good feelings you get from having Krem doing power squats. 

[Urzon]

It's kinda hard for me to make that alliance when I have the metaknowledge from DAO that the Qunari only honors them so long as it's convenient for them.

From the war table missions alone, we already know that the Qunari have spies everywhere in Thedas, and an alliance between them and the Inquisition only opens the door for them to more easily integrate and move around. When the time comes for the Qunari to have another go at trying to conquer Thedas, who do you think they're going to strike first to destabilize the entirety of southern Thedas?

I'll give you a hint. It's not Orlais.

[KaiserShep]

I'm pretty sure that there's dialogue in Inquisition that also hints at the one-sidedness of a Qunari "alliance", and even Bull's reluctance is a bit of a red flag. 

[Patchwork]

I always go with the alliance, yes it's probably only temporary but that the qunari offer one at all is a big deal and it gives Leliana's people a chance to learn about the Ben Hassarath up close. Overall it's the practical choice for a good leader and it saves a lot of lives. 

 

Plus when a game tries so hard to emotionally manipulate me I will go the other way if I can just out of spite. I used to shoot Starkid in the head for the same reason  

[badkenbad]

Doing the Qunari alliance war table missions also gets you a very nice Tier 3 staff schematic: Masterwork Archon Staff Schematic
 

[Heimdall]

If you're doing what's best for Bull, save the Chargers.
 
If you're doing what's best for the Inquisition (and acting as a responsible leader, IMO), save the dreadnought.

Well, the latter is only true if you trust the Qunari. I saved the Chargers because my character was reluctant about the alliance to begin with and wasn't willing to sacrifice her men over it,

[Uccio]

Only good qunari is a dead qunari, let them burn!

[Lazarillo]

Other than just killing Tevinters (which is what the Qunari were going to do without my help anyway), the only other main draw of the "alliance" is supposedly intelligence.  Given how badly Qunari intelligence screws the pooch in that very mission (assuming it's not deliberately a set-up), why would you even want it?

 

Chargers every time.

[surgeraven]

I just can't save the Dreadnought... The cutscenes after that shows a VERY VERY SAD BULL, and I like Bull... So I always save the Chargers.

 

I concur.

 

Dialogue if you save the dreadnought:

Spoiler

• Cole: Blood, crash of metal, but silent underneath - the horn didn't blow! That one-eyed bastard, I knew he'd betray us!
• Iron Bull: Oh good, you're doing your thing again.
• Cole: They died fighting. In your mind, they hated you, but you're doing it wrong! That isn't what Krem thought!
• Iron Bull: Well, then... what did he think?
• Cole: "Horns pointing up."
• Iron Bull: Oh... yeah.
• Cole: No, that didn't help - I tugged on the tangle and tore it--
• Iron Bull: It's all right. I'm good.

 

Nope

[c0bra951]

I don't know if anyone remembers the Kobayashi Maru test scenario from Star Trek 3.  Kirk got through it  by cheating, and his reason was that he doesn't believe in a no-win scenario.

 

The climax to this mission is a no-win scenario.  You lose something substantial either way, and it feels like a false choice in a game where you can perform so many superhuman feats.  Either way, it just feels wrong.  And since it's wrong both ways, I'll take keeping things in my inner circle as they were.  Next time, maybe I'll just turn Bull down, or I won't even get into that mission-triggering dialogue.  The PC folks should come up with a mod reminiscent of Kirk's creativity, though.

[In Exile]

Keep in mind, the Qunari don't do alliances in the way the rest of Thedas understand the concept. Much like how the Qunari don't do treaties either, despite what the rest of Thedas thinks. 

[Dai Grepher]

Easy choice. Save dreadnaught. Save half of Denerim from burning to the ground. Purge the Inquisition of Venatori spies, and take down the last of Corypheus' supporters. Secure your alliance with the Qunari. The Chargers' purpose is to kill and die for money. They are mercs. There will always be new mercs. It is also better for The Iron Bull to remain with the Qunari. He can always decide to leave later if he wants to. He should not be forced out against his will simply for saving The Bull's Chargers, that would be sad. Also, the Chargers are of no use to the Inquisition after a certain point anyway. Use up all of their Chore Table missions and then discard them.