287 réponses à ce sujet

[Potato Cat]

It would be cool if all our previous dealings with the Qunari affected how we could deal with them in the future. Like maybe we could convince them to peacefully coexist with the rest of Thedas, similar to how they are doing now in Rivain, if the Warden befriended Sten, Hawke was named basalit-an and gave the Arishok Isabela, and the Inquisitor secured the alliance.

[colemanshane]

My main Quizzy is a Qunari, who wanted to distance herself from the Qun as she is Vasoth. She saved the Chargers
The only other of my 4 Quizzys who would allow a Qunari Spy saved the dreadnought.

[Dodgeman]

I don't know how important this quest is for future content in terms of aliiances with the qun but i suspect it's mostly irrelelvant. I think this quest is about letting Bull decide or come to terms with the fact that he has always been vasoth and not a follower of the qun. So you can either let Bull embrace the fact that he is not a qunari OR let Bull continue to lie to himself.

 

This conflict between Qun and non-qun will most likely, i guess, become  more relevant in a future dragon age title or maybe dlc for inquisition, but what do i know.

[Mihura]

It depends on your Inq motivations. I have one Inquisitor that is a devout but made the decision of supporting the Qun directly and Tevinter indirectly. One of my characters plays both sides so her position does not get too much attention, with Orlais(Celene with Briala) and Seheron(IB still in the Qun) but supporting Tevinter reform, through Dorian. Of course still giving the impression of hostility, supporting Nevarra(a country in instability) and the Avvar in Tevinter borders. A nice balance so the Qunari can be kept in check.

[Dai Grepher]

The Arishok was acting without permission. If Hawke allows him to return he is put on trial for his act of attacking Kirkwall.

 

The Qunari will invade again when the time is right. But the important thing is that the Inquisition knows that. Keep your friends close and enemies closer. Use them to expose the Venatori spies in Skyhold, then focus on insulating the Inquisition against Qunari infiltration. Remember, the Qunari are in your house whether you ally with them or not. Better to make them think you trust them.

 

Don't get me wrong, the Qunari expelling a member simply for preserving the lives of his soldiers even at the sacrifice of Qunari does speak ill of the Qunari society. The Qunari on that ship knew the risks just as well, and they had at least completed their purpose. Their deaths would have meaning in Qunari society at least. The Charges would be dying for The Iron Bull, and it would only mean anything to him alone. It isn't their fault that dreadnaughts are too slow, and it was the Qunari's plan to begin with.

 

Then again, if the Chargers had been better, they'd still be alive. And it was also Bull's plan to split them up like he did. Bad decision. Should his mistake cost the Qunari their lives?

 

I don't think there's any wrong response to this mission, but siding with the Qunari produces the best results.

[BananaDePijama]

I understand when people say that they prefer to have an Alliance with the Qun... But I always try it and I just can't keep going on... RELOAD SAVED GAME...

 

When I see Bull's face everytime when the Charger's are dead, it makes me feel so sad. But DAT SMILE when he sees Krem again in Skyhold after the mission is just awesome.

 

 

Sorry for my bad english :/

[Lazarillo]

Then again, if the Chargers had been better, they'd still be alive. And it was also Bull's plan to split them up like he did. Bad decision. Should his mistake cost the Qunari their lives?

 

But Bull did it based on the intelligence provided to him by Gatt.  Should the Ben Hassrath's mistake cost the Chargers their lives?

[AlexiaRevan]

don't care for the Qunari and they send me some Twig....sided with the chargers everytime . 

[Amaldur1]

As with almost every decision in this game, it makes almost no difference which side you choose in terms of gameplay. There is a slight difference at the war table. This decision, in my view, is one of the most emotionally fraught in the game and it is a huge disappointment that it doesn't really affect the gameplay.

[DuskWanderer]

Screw the Qun

[Kakistos_]

It would be cool if all our previous dealings with the Qunari affected how we could deal with them in the future. Like maybe we could convince them to peacefully coexist with the rest of Thedas, similar to how they are doing now in Rivain, if the Warden befriended Sten, Hawke was named basalit-an and gave the Arishok Isabela, and the Inquisitor secured the alliance.

I doubt that would happen. Even if you befriend Sten he says that he'll probably have to kill you someday.

[Kakistos_]

I always choose the Chargers. I have no interest in an alliance with the Qunari. It has been alluded to many times that the Qunari are preparing to try and conquest Thedas some time in the future. Thw Qunari watch and wish to convert everyone, The Grey Wardens and Inquisition included. I would prefer that Qunari spies are not co-mingling with my agents when that day comes. Watch. In DA4 or 5, an Inquisition that sided with the Qun will get a knife in the back.

[Dai Grepher]

 

But Bull did it based on the intelligence provided to him by Gatt.  Should the Ben Hassrath's mistake cost the Chargers their lives?

 

Who said it was a mistake? The intel only showed that it was the easier job. Perhaps it was easier because the position was not as defensible. Bull probably should have considered that detail more carefully, especially since the mission entailed holding the position after taking it.

[DarkKnightHolmes]

You get two war table missions if you side with the Qunari.

[Dai Grepher]

I always choose the Chargers. I have no interest in an alliance with the Qunari. It has been alluded to many times that the Qunari are preparing to try and conquest Thedas some time in the future. Thw Qunari watch and wish to convert everyone, The Grey Wardens and Inquisition included. I would prefer that Qunari spies are not co-mingling with my agents when that day comes. Watch. In DA4 or 5, an Inquisition that sided with the Qun will get a knife in the back.

 

Except they are, regardless of whether you ally with them or not. Remember how easily they snuck in to kill Bull when he turned Tal-Vashoth?

[Darkstarr11]

I didn't like the way the Qunari came with the offer.  They stated that you could only bring a small squad, not the army.  It really felt like a secret test of character for Bull.  Let's be honest, if Leliana had been able to send a handful of spies, that would have gone VERY differently.  OR, what about the Blades?  If you recruited them, they were RIGHT THERE!!!  If not, you've got THREE camps in the area.  The Venatori HAD to know they were there, so if they were found out, it wouldn't be a big surprise.  Gatt seemed like he was TRYING to get the Chargers killed.  Did he seem regretful?  Yes...but he DIDN'T seem surprised.  He KNEW where Bull would send the Chargers.  He knew where the Venatori were camped, and their numbers.  It's not a stretch to think he didn't know that Bull would be forced to choose between loyalties.  He hoped Bull would choose the Qun.  If he did, then his team would be dead, which pushes him deeper into the fold.  If he doesn't, he's out, and even cut loose, he's still an asset.  The death of the Chargers serves the Qunari, and losing Bull doesn't hurt them that much.  

 

I don't think an alliance helps that much.  The fireship that burns down Denerim?  ONLY happens (it seems) if you work with the Qunari.  Why?  Perhaps its your association with the Qun that factors into them trying to assault the capitol of Ferelden?  Remember, you are dealing with Qunari spies.  How much information do you really trust about them.  ANY time to deal with an intelligence organization, you have to wonder about sources.  Remember Mass Effect?  Cerberus put its best face forward for Shep, while keeping their really NASTY projects hidden.  The Qun is going to do what it takes to make you comfortable, but what you don't know won't hurt THEM...

 

I saved the Chargers.  Known quantity versus unknown.  Also, morale.  Bet your Orlesian and Ferelden allies would be happy to know you saved a well known mercenary band rather than secure an alliance with the Qun.  Especially considering how they treat 'difficult' converts...and King Alistair knows how they do that, as does Isabela, and Varric...lots of people actually...

[General TSAR]

Treaties and alliances with the Qunari are pointless, they'll just use the period of peace in order to build up their forces and then launch another Storm. 

[Texhnolyze101]

Only good qunari is a dead qunari, let them burn!

 

And preferably with a long stick through the anus and out the mouth with their chest split open so you can see the internal damage as they die the slowest death possible.

[KaiserShep]

It is also better for The Iron Bull to remain with the Qunari. He can always decide to leave later if he wants to. He should not be forced out against his will simply for saving The Bull's Chargers, that would be sad. 

 

I'd say that this is debatable, but then this really depends on what you think of the Qun. As I detest it, and would sooner have it wiped off the face of Thedas before ever giving it serious consideration, I would prefer to get as many of its members kicked out as I possibly could, so I guess it's not really sad from my point of view. 

 

As for Bull's decisions, he's not obligated to do what the Inquisitor suggests on the matter. It's not like they're conscripts. If he was truly committed, he'd just let his men take one for the team and the dreadnought would be saved. The alliance might suffer because of the Inquisitor's urging, but Bull would at least prove that his devotion to the Qun is unwavering. But since the Inquisitor can sway him so easily, well, it's like my father used to say: F*ck it. 

 

Edit: I would have been very interested to have a third option, where the Inquisitor turns it around and simply leaves the Chargers' fate to Bull. After all, they're his men. Why should I decide? Losing them would just free up expenses, and possibly ale. 

[Da_Noobinator]

*Mini spoilers*

Short answer is no, it's not worth it. I chose to put the interests of the Inquisition and thus all of Thedas above those of the inquisitor or Iron Bull, thus siding with the Qunari and saving the warship to secure an alliance that would hopefully ultimately spell doom for Corypheus. Logical thinking, yes?

 

Well, no. The best you get is some war table mission where you get a neat little staff schematic and possibly save some of Denerim from burning (none of which you actually see, mind, it's all just text on the war table).

 

You don't get any Qunari soldiers when you march on Corypheus' army in the Arbor wilds. You never see their supposedly impressive fleet achieve anything in any cutscene whatsoever. The Qunari forces do not prevent any other major event from playing out in a cutscene, they do not prevent another main or even sub-main character from dying, they have no influence over the political or economic (or, for that matter, any form of) resolution for any country, or the Inquisition. The best you get is a war table mission (where you don't see or feel the consequences of anything), and even then, if you choose to save the Chargers, you are never made aware of Denerim burning, implying that another way was found to prevent the Venatori from succeeding without your help.

 

If you actually saw Qunari soldiers fighting on the front lines against Corypheus' army in the Arbor wilds, sure. If you laid a trap for a large section of Venatori and/or Red Templar reinforcements via sea or coast, and actually got to see the benefits of the sheer military might of the Qunari fleet in a section of gameplay, or even just a cutscene, sure. But no.

 

To top it all off, you don't even get an epic cutscene showing the individual Chargers falling to their deaths one by one, with an epic, emotional string section and piano playing in the background. Eventually every charger has fallen after a vicious fight. Dalish fell after exposing herself over the cliff side for too long in order to rain fire down on the mages to prevent them from destroying the dreadnought. Only Krem is left, cradling the charred remains of Stitches as the remaining Venatori close in on him. He looks up, staring straight into the Iron Bull's eyes, which are full of regret as he struggles to comprehend the consequences of what he's done. Even though he is too far away for Bull to see or hear, he mouths a last, genuine, "Thank you," gently lays Stitches to the ground, and slowly, proudly stands up. He draws his sword as the mage nearest him, by the cliff side, closes in and prepares a fireball. And with unbelievable speed and fury, Krem charges straight at the magister. An arrow glances off his dented, scorched platemail, and the fireball that the mage was preparing gets unleashed early, burning his face and blinding his left eye. A venatori zealot charges in with her sword raised high, but Krem is too quick, slashing his blade across the gap between her plate and leg mail, leaving her on the ground screaming in agony, clutching her hip. Without losing any speed in the movement, Krem turns straight back on course with the venatori mage, and with one last furious cry the Bull's Chargers end true to their name as Krem tackles the mage straight over the cliff side.

 

Lol nah the venatori magically teleport on top of the cliff and suddenly all the chargers are dead woops.

 

Having said that, the cutscene showing the destruction of the dreadnought isn't much better...

 

To be clear, I loved the game and really enjoyed the story. But it wasn't without its flaws, and I really think that this entire quest, and definitely the consequences (or lack of) regarding your major choice, was one of those flaws.

[KaiserShep]

The best you get is some war table mission where you get a neat little staff schematic and possibly save some of Denerim from burning (none of which you actually see, mind, it's all just text on the war table).

In fairness to this, written reports without getting to witness the events firsthand is kind of the sad reality of the Inquisitor's position. I honestly don't believe that having a lot of cut scenes involving events that occur beyond the PC's view is a particularly good thing, and I admit to being a bit of a stickler when it comes to the mindset I want to insert in the character. So half of Denerim burns in a report, so it should still be unfortunate, even if there's no imagery to strike out at you. The real problem, however, is the lack of dialogue on the subject, which is the notorious faux pas with the Dalish Inquisitor and the potential wiping out of his/her clan.

[AlleluiaElizabeth]

In fairness to this, written reports without getting to witness the events firsthand is kind of the sad reality of the Inquisitor's position. I honestly don't believe that having a lot of cut scenes involving events that occur beyond the PC's view is a particularly good thing, and I admit to being a bit of a stickler when it comes to the mindset I want to insert in the character. So half of Denerim burns in a report, so it should still be unfortunate, even if there's no imagery to strike out at you. 

The cutscene idea of the Chargers' deaths in that post was amazing, though, you gotta admit. I think there should have been more cutscenes in general during quests to really give them importance and weight. Definitely the companion quests, at the very least.

 

Personally I don't find it worth it to save the Dreadnought and secure the Qunari alliance for the reasons stated in previous posts. The Qunari will pay lip service to an alliance till they no longer have need of it. They'll send you intel to secure the alliance and lull you into trusting them, but I doubt they'll let anything slip by while working with your people that gives you an actual advantage against them in the future.

 

Ultimately, the Qunari are all about converting you and the rest of Thedas and they will stab you in the back if you resist it when the time comes. Why give them a foothold in the Inquisition voluntarily? Yes, they already have spies in your ranks. But why make it easier for them? And in fact, saving the Chargers opens an opportunity to root out the spies in your ranks b/c they tip their hand by sneaking those token assassins in to Skyhold. If Leliana is half as good at her job as she's supposed to be, she should be able to do something with that.

 

Save the Chargers and you get an Iron Bull with undivided loyalty who hasn't failed his men, who are basically his adopted family. Its a much healthier Bull, imo: one that retains the independent thinking that makes him who he is. Plus you get the Chargers themselves, who are a capable fighting squad and loyal to Bull, and you by extension. The Chargers won't stab you in the back, the Qunari almost inevitably will. I think its a good trade.

 

Also, having Bull turn Tal-Vashoth is worth it to me for this one banter between him and Cole:

Spoiler

• Cole: "Tama, how will I follow the Qun?" Her hands, strong but gentle, rubs the stubs where the horns will be.
• Cole: "You are strong, and your mind is sharp. You will solve problems others cannot." She smiles, but sadly.
• Iron Bull: Looks like my old Tamassran was wrong. Bet she's pissed one of her kids went Tal-Vashoth.
• Cole: Agents with hushed tones. Eyes stinging. Forms to fill out, course corrections. Reduce risk of similar losses.
• Cole: I remember the little boy, too wise, eager to help. Words break in small, secret spaces. He got away. He got away.
• Iron Bull: How could you know that? You've never even met her.
• Cole: Your hurt touches hers.
• Iron Bull: Well, that's, uh, creepy, but... Thanks.

[Roamingmachine]

Here's how i see it:

 

The enemy of my enemy is just that and nothing more. The ultimate objective of the qunari is to conquer the entirety of thedas and brainwash or magically lobotomize the population. That will never change and you cannot negotiate it away. Just because they are focused on one of the inquisitions enemies right now does not mean that they themselves are not an enemy.