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is it worth making an alliance with the Qunari?


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#201
Dai Grepher

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No there isn't. All this post does is prove my point. The most you been able to do is say It might have happened when you have nothing in-game to back it up.

 

There's nothing in-game that proves Denerim burns down after a player saves the chargers, so there's no reason for said player to assume that's going to happen. 

 

When Dragon Age 4 comes around and reveals that Denerim is no more after the Chargers are saved, then you can say your point has a basis. Until then, it stays what it is, hopeful speculation.

 

That's all I ever claimed, that it might happen. In fact I proved that it has at least a 75% chance of happening. The player should assume it will very likely happen. So my point is, better to ally with the Qunari and make 100% sure it doesn't happen.

 

Well if DA4 states that it did burn down, then that wouldn't just be a basis for a point, it would be an inarguable fact.
 



#202
Asch Lavigne

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The only thing that makes me want to save the Chargers is that you can send them on war table missions. I feel like those actually give me a reason to have hired them. Otherwise, I'm paying a bunch of people to just sit in my tavern all day.

 

But the Inquisition and it's purpose is taking priority, which I feel like as the head of the faction it should, so down the Chargers go,


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#203
Mikka-chan

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If you have a relationship with IB and choose the Qunari, doesn't he basically acknowledge that he will eventually be called back, sent to the re-educators, and forced to forget you and his feelings for you?

 

...Ick.

 

So, yeah, that's the real reason I choose the Chargers: because even if IB follows the orders and becomes 'Hissard' truly, he's going to be brainwashed again because he's become too different then the ideal follower of the Qun.  And I'm not having one of my 'inner circle' go through that, be it because he's a love interest/a friend/much more useful close to me then against me.  Even if I'm playing pragmatic/occasionally jerkass inquisitor, it suits my inquisitor's purpose better to have someone loyal to them (and indeed, if you befriend Bull and save the Chargers, at the end he's like, 'Yep, we're sticking around') then to have a wild card they'd let get close to them and then be thrown away.

 

In other words, when choosing between people who are eventually going to turn against you (the Qunari have made no secret that yes, they are going to conquer Thedas again (or at least attempt to)) or someone (and their mercenary group, which does some decent jobs) who is loyal to you and willing to stay around and keep being loyal, it's better to take the safe bet and involve giving any advantages to the group that is and will be an enemy.  As Alistair and Anora can still be part of war table missions after the whole mess with the Qunari (such as the peace negotiations with Orlais), it's safe to assume that at least the royalty survives any firebombing that may happen by the Tevinters (if it even does happen when you don't ally)- and, well, if Denerim gets destroyed by the Tevinters, it makes it easier to rally Ferelden to your purposes.

 

On the other side of that, looking at from a character who's not concerned about results, but about the fluffy feelings and friendship and happiness... it's actually a bit harder, as that character goes in to the alliance all 'YAY LET'S ALL BE FRIENDS' rather then the 'Okay, how can this be used to my advantage?'.  However, it's the Qunari who order your army (paticularly the Blades, who are RIGHT THERE and accustomed to blending along the Coast) to stay back and gave extremely bad intelligence on that round  So going between people who give bad intelligence when I'm specifically allying with them for their intelligence versus people who apparently beat up Envy on nightmare mode when he makes me cry usually (why they can't take down a few Vints is an eternal mystery of plotholeness, as Envy is a lot meaner then those Venatori) and have already offered me the fluffy feelings of friendship, I'll go with the fluffy friendship.

 

...This is not to say I haven't done the Qunari line, because, interesting!  (And maybe Tallis.)  But I find it hard to ally with them: the combination of stupid intelligence when they're trying to dangel their intelligence network in front of me as their 'bribe'/alliance trade as well as the lack of connection and eventual brainwashing of someone who's been private to my character's private decisions makes most of my characters nervous.  Also, Krem is cute and there's a nice song.  Qunari don't seem to sing much.  I'll go with the singers.  /musically inclined



#204
Rocknife

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Save the chargers. The "alliance" with the Qun is not a full and long term alliance anyway. It's not like they'd send whole Antaam to your help.



#205
BSpud

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I don't think choosing the alliance over the Chargers is the zero sum, pragmatic, pro-Inquisition choice some people are making it out to be. Choosing not to sacrifice the Chargers isn't inherently any less pragmatic and pro-Inquisition. If the writer intended it to be a clear cut case of sentimentality vs. ruthlessness, I don't think they quite succeeded.

 

Now, if it was between the Chargers and the Qunari offering a solid, potentially war-winning piece of information or weapon or anything that clearly debilitates or helps defeat Corypheus directly, then you'd have something. Spies, you've got. Warships (that you don't directly command)? It hasn't been that kind of war and no reason to think it will be. This is the kind of alliance that should be left up to diplomats and nations, not the Inquisition as it stands at that point in time.


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#206
Simfam

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Also I have to stress the kind of impression it gives on your men if they find out you are willing to sacrifice them for a foreign alliance.

 

Basically.

 

The Qunari Alliance is b*llocks. Pragmatically or otherwise.



#207
Dabrikishaw

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That's all I ever claimed, that it might happen. 

Goodie. You get it.



#208
teh DRUMPf!!

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Save the chargers. The "alliance" with the Qun is not a full and long term alliance anyway. It's not like they'd send whole Antaam to your help.

 

And yet, it is probably more than the Chargers can give you.

 

Also, an alliance only ever serves the purpose of achieving some mutual objective -- join forces, get the job done, over. In this case, stopping Cory and his minions. What more do you want from the Qunari, exactly? They are giving you all that need be given.

 

In any case, better to make short-term allies than immediate enemies.

 

Also I have to stress the kind of impression it gives on your men if they find out you are willing to sacrifice them for a foreign alliance.

 

That if the mission objective demands it, their lives can/will be sacrificed?

 

What is wrong with that message?

 

If they do not understand that, they should sign on in the first place.


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#209
Gold Dragon

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[snip]

 

 

That if the mission objective demands it, their lives can/will be sacrificed?

 

What is wrong with that message?

 

If they do not understand that, they should sign on in the first place.

 

You might want to re-read that line for inconsistencies.  Just saying.



#210
MyKingdomCold

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Regarding whether Denerim is destroyed or not if you save the Chargers, isn't there a war table mission "Shadows Over Denerim"?  I'm genuinely curious if it disappears after a time or not.  If it doesn't even after you save the Chargers and go through their war table missions, then I guess it would be safe to assume that Denerim doesn't get destroyed?



#211
Dai Grepher

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I don't know if it disappears over time, but it only comes up if you had the Chargers hold the hill and die. Otherwise, it doesn't show up, and in that case Denerim MIGHT end up getting burned by the fire ship.



#212
Rocknife

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And yet, it is probably more than the Chargers can give you.

 

Also, an alliance only ever serves the purpose of achieving some mutual objective -- join forces, get the job done, over. In this case, stopping Cory and his minions. What more do you want from the Qunari, exactly? They are giving you all that need be given.

 

In any case, better to make short-term allies than immediate enemies.

 

Qun gives you absolutely nothing in the game and your "alliance" with qun is not what I would actually call an alliance. The difficulty of the missions are exactly the same with or without the alliance and Qun doesn't become your enemy just because of that. Iron Bull himself explains this, Qun doesn't really care if IB becomes a Tal-Vashot or not. IB says they didn't even send a proper assassin, this was just a message to tell him that he became a Tal-Vashoth now. So, no immediate enemies.

 

So allying with Qun makes no difference other than losing the chargers. This was probaly intended to be a "hard desicion" moment but execution was far from perfect.

So I'd say, save the Chargers.


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#213
MyKingdomCold

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I don't know if it disappears over time, but it only comes up if you had the Chargers hold the hill and die. Otherwise, it doesn't show up, and in that case Denerim MIGHT end up getting burned by the fire ship.

 

That's not true since I get it pretty early after reaching Skyhold.  Plus, the text refers to In Hushed Whispers or Champions of the Just.  According to the wiki, you have to have a Inquisition influence level of 5.  So it has nothing to do with sacrificing the Chargers.  So if it doesn't disappear, it would be obvious Denerim doesn't get destroyed.



#214
Patchwork

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Regarding whether Denerim is destroyed or not if you save the Chargers, isn't there a war table mission "Shadows Over Denerim"?  I'm genuinely curious if it disappears after a time or not.  If it doesn't even after you save the Chargers and go through their war table missions, then I guess it would be safe to assume that Denerim doesn't get destroyed?

 

I know it does disappear later in the game, maybe after both the Wardens and the Winter Palace are done, but I don't think it's directly tied to Bull's missions. Unlike the Ben Hass ones about the bard and choosing a new leader for Lydes(?). 



#215
Dabrikishaw

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Shadows over Denerim doesn't have anything to do with The Iron Bull. You unlock it at Inquisition Rank 5 and the only other requirement is relocating to Skyhold.



#216
zambingo

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If you side with the mages plight and then align with the Qunari you fail at logic.

If you scold Leliana about how she handles spies, and/or reassure her pulling agents back at Haven was a tactical retreat, and then side with the Qunari you fail at logic.

If you fight for the sovereignty of nations like Orlais, Ferelden, Nevarra etc etc and team with the Qunari you fail at logic.

The Qunari end game is world domination, not coexistence. That is not a political idea that could change with new leadership, it is the heart of the cultures' philosophy. Any friendship they offer is only to benefit them, anything you gain is done so with a scorpion on your back.

#217
andy6915

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If you side with the mages plight and then align with the Qunari you fail at logic.

 

Why? I have to agree with qunari politics about mages to ally with them against venatori and the ancient darkspawn who wants to be a god? How do you figure?



#218
zambingo

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Qunari cut the tongues out of all mages and shackle them with "remote controlling" collars. If you agree with the mages that living in a Rapunzel Tower is harsh then side with the Qunari you fail at logic.

#219
andy6915

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Qunari cut the tongues out of all mages and shackle them with "remote controlling" collars. If you agree with the mages that living in a Rapunzel Tower is harsh then side with the Qunari you fail at logic.

 

So I have to like the qun or the qunari to form a temporary alliance with them to crush a dangerous enemy? That logic doesn't follow sense. Yeah the qun is horrible as is how they treat mages... And?



#220
zambingo

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Hahahahahaha

You're serious?

Also, you don't need the Qunari to defeat Corypants. Everyone else needs you.

#221
andy6915

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Hahahahahaha

You're serious?

 

You're serious? You're not making a coherent point.



#222
The Baconer

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Yeah, if I were a mage my thought process would probably be: "So Tevinter punches you in the gut with Red Lyrium... You know, I might be okay with that."

 

Of course, that's not really a logical conclusion...



#223
zambingo

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Andy, if you believe that then this particular convo between us is Christian Baled. ;-)

#224
andy6915

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Yeah, if I were a mage my thought process would probably be: "So Tevinter punches you in the gut with Red Lyrium... You know, I might be okay with that."

 

Of course, that's not really a logical conclusion...

 

Well they intend to punch southern Thedas in the gut before they punch Tevinter in the gut, so...



#225
Boost32

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Hahahahahaha
You're serious?
Also, you don't need the Qunari to defeat Corypants. Everyone else needs you.

And how in game would the Inquisitor know it? Qunari support would give you more chance against Corypheus than the Chargers ever would.