78 réponses à ce sujet

[Draining Dragon]

I think comic Cap is an idealistic jerk who doesn't realize what America itself has consistently done to others, even in its founding.

The comic book Cap is nothing like that.

[Dermain]

Im against registration.

 

The whole point of vigilantiism is acting on the understanding that the current powers at be are too inept at handling the problems that you yourself have taken upon yourself.

 

Its why Batman is Batman instead of being a supercop. The system is broken and hes the answer.

 

And if for some reason youre STILL for registration, then why bother being a masked vigilante? be a government agent.

 

Not really...

 

Batman just continues the cycle since comic book logic states that his villains must always escape imprisonment. It gets rather laughable when you consider how many times the Joker has escaped from Arkham throughout publication. 

 

I support Stark. Headless Ned Stark. 

 

 

Never change Dobby.

 

 

And this is in any way a contradiction because? Super-humans registering with their respective governments doesn't seem like any extreme to me. Hell, it seems like it'd be a plus. Government subsidization for living could really help the less then financially well off to sustain themselves. And allow for a better education that isn't mired in class cutting and tardiness along with failed exams and assignments. Just to talk about peter parker's circumstance, after all not everyone is a billionare with their own multi-national corporations to fund their living expenses like Tony Stark or Bruce Wayne for example. 

 

Besides, Hawkeye is already registered regardless, he works for shield.

 

One of the things I dislike severely about the entire civil war premise is how black and white dumb morality it is, to the point where Paragon and Renegade have more nuance and tact. The registration forces people to register without providing their families any sort of support or protection, which would never fly in any scenario outside of the ones that have Tony Stark be pro-government and Steve Rogers be anti-civilian.

 

The fact that registration is presented as a loaded question is a load of bollocks. People who own guns don't register to become state employees, but they still register their firearms anyway for the safety of others around them and themselves. What happens if a copy-cat decides to impersonate said hero? What happens if someone replaces a heroes secret identity? These secnarios could easily be avoided with a registration to show no, this person isn't in fact who they claim to be.

 

But like I said earlier, realism has its place, and it isn't in comic books and superhero stories, because often times they lead to no-fun scenarios, like civil war.

 

Having not seen Avengers 2, does Captain America get pissy with Hulk because of all of the civilians he killed?

 

Of course, in the MCU all of those cars and buildings were completely empty, there's no way Hulk would actually murder some people...

 

I have a feeling that the whole registration issue was more of a political jab by whoever was writing the entire Civil War arc which is why it ended up being a black/white scenario. Which of course, is bad writing...

 

 

[TheClonesLegacy]

Marvel likes to glance over the fact that people die during the Hulks rampages.

Hell in World War Hulk they evacuate Manhattan before Hulk even gets there.

[TheClonesLegacy]

Uh, the video outlines his super powers outside of his archery skills, it is clearly relevant in a super, SUPER, serial way. Otherwise you'd be forced to laugh or something.

At this rate, I'm highly doubting they will touch on it, given that they have gone through four movies with his appearance and not once mentioned it. Not to mention the first movie he was in (Thor) had him taking instructions from an ear piece...

He can use ear pieces. He's deaf, but not 100%.
I dunno. I suppose bringing it up would actually involve giving Clint something to do. And that's just crazy.

[Fast Jimmy]

He can use ear pieces. He's deaf, but not 100%.
I dunno. I suppose bringing it up would actually involve giving Clint something to do. And that's just crazy.

Hey, he can finish putting down flooring in the living room. That's a huge undertaking. Flooring is a b!tch.

[Cainhurst Crow]

Hey, he can finish putting down flooring in the living room. That's a huge undertaking. Flooring is a b!tch.

Hawkeye is best avenger. He won the "having-his-own-life" award.

[Sully13]

Since when has Clint been Deaf? you sure you arnt mixing him up with Echo when she posed as a male Ronin before giving the identity to Clint?

[TheClonesLegacy]

Since when has Clint been Deaf? you sure you arnt mixing him up with Echo when she posed as a male Ronin before giving the identity to Clint?

http://marvel.wikia....ton_(Earth-616)

Weaknesses

For a time, he was 80% deaf due to an injury sustained while in Crossfire's captivity, but his hearing was restored during his rebirth on Franklin Richards' Counter-Earth. He was again deafened by the Clown, who jammed Hawkeye's own arrows into both of Hawkeye's ears, causing damage to the middle and inner ears.[62] He remains largely deaf, and used sign language, and lip reading to understand those around him, while using normal speech to communicate to them.[63] He later started using hearing aids created by Tony Stark.[2]

 

It was also revealed that as a child, abuse from his father left him partially deaf, but it's unknown if it was temporary or if it lasted until adulthood, with him successfully hiding it

 

[Abraham_uk]

I support the Captain. Just look at how much Tony Stark has done to threaten the world already just because he thinks he's always right.

 

The issue I have with the Civil War storyline is how it is muddied by who is defending which position.

What Tony Stark has done in the past (yes he has made many questionable decisions) should not determine one's position on the Superhero Act.

 

This is like simplifying last years Scottish Referendum to "Who do you like more? Alex Salmond or David Cameroon".

Voters had little interest in who was spearheading the referendum. They cared more about the pros and cons of both sides.

 

This entire plotline is stupid, the sides advocating fkr and against it are stupid. All the characters were portrayed stupidly in the comics, and it completely ignores the real world facts in favor of PSA style finger wagging.

[Snip]

 

I haven't read the comics. However if what you say is true then this is not a particularly balanced way at looking at this.

I do have another concern regarding this storyline.

 

It's bad enough that this has become a Captain America versus Iron Man issue rather than a which argument holds more weight. If goodie too shoes hero is taking one side then this is a clear and obvious way of letting the audience know which side to support. Iron Man has made poor choices. Thus by Iron Man spearheading either side, the audience assumes that which ever side Iron Man has taken is wrong.

 

Let's put it this way. Captain America is a hero who represents a highly idealised version of America. So freedom, morality and justice.

Iron Man represents what people dislike about America: Capitalism, foolishness and hedonism. 

 

It's pretty obvious that we're not meant to side with Iron Man here. To me this is a huge bias.

 

Registration is a red herring, I think. Heroes live dangerous lives; asking them to give up their secrecy is basically asking to get Peter Parker'd. At the same time regulation isn't a bad idea. All of these heroes do a lot of destructive stuff, and clearly cause some serious problems (Ultron is 100% Stark's fault, and lots of people died because of it). Asking the government to step in to stop a lunatic in a costume from fighting a more moral, less crazy lunatic in a costume is pretty reasonable. 

 

I agree.

Spoiler

I am not clear on who is to blame for Ultron.

 

First of all Bruce Banner and Tony Stark worked together to create Ultron.

Second of all Scarlet Witch did drug Tony with her weird red mist. I am not sure if Tony Stark was in control.

He was definitely affected by the bad dream. A dream that might have altered his psyche.

 

I just don't understand how Scarlet Witches powers work in Age of Ultron. Is it mind control or is it just a temporary drug that gives people bad dreams?

Please note that this drug affected the team members in different ways.

 

What we do know is that Bruce Banner was not under the influence of the Scarlet Witch drug.

So he might get a larger chunk of the blame.

 

However if the drug had worn off or the only thing that happened was Tony Stark has a bad dream (nothing more) then he is also partly to blame.

 

What I'm saying is, it is really difficult to tell since we don't know how Scarlet Witches powers are supposed to work, or the affect it had on Tony's brain chemistry (which varied from person to person).

 

 

That's a tricky one because I normally don't like Cap but Stark's position on the matter is something i can never agree with. So, I'm just waiting to see how the movies will pull it off.

 

This is the problem with superheroes spearheading either side. It becomes a popularity contest. Which Superhero do you like more, Captain America or Iron Man?

This is why the title of this thread is  "Superhero Registration Act: Yes or No?"

The best thing to do is to look at the facts of both sides and make a decision based on that.

 

So a superman is able to do all these things. Being the best marksman in the world doesn't count, thus Hawkeye is not a superman because he clearly hasn't got any superhuman capabilities. If Tony's law was active, he should not be forced to register.

 

Some people think superheroes require superpowers in order to qualify as "super". I disagree. I think Batman is a great example of an individual who doesn't have superpowers who qualifies as "super". After all to paraphrase Christian Bale's Batman "it's not what I am in side, it's what I do."

 

It reminds me of the X-Men mutant registration act.

 

Yeah. I suppose they're similar. In a way the Avengers are people who are very gifted and incredibly dangerous.

Like the X-Men the Avengers could be considered a menace to society.

 

He would have.

 

Until he realized over time:

1)How much danger unregulated (as in unregulated by better forces than say a Hydra World Order; I know its complicated though) technology can cause in the wrong hands.

2)How he himself, as someone arrogantly into unregulated technology, nearly destroyed the world.

 

There may be great evil entities out there, but they can't be controlled. Many many superheroes potentially can. And many non-superheroes can work to understand technology/magic enough to use it more responsibly then DERP ULTRON.

 

[snip]

 

As it seems so far, I'd go anti-Act in the MCU. But if this was more real life with real life standards (just + all these weird things from the MCU, heh), I can more easily imagine being pro-Act, OVERALL. As in, I'd be very skeptical of what it contains, but I'm pro a degree of regulation in itself.

 

I see what you're saying.

It's not an easy debate when you think about it.

 

The big question is, how would you regulate super powered beings?

What do you do when a superhero goes rogue?

Thousands of Iron Man suits?

What if your army of Iron Man suits goes rogue?

 

 

I don't care if I posted this just two days ago... its relevant.

Very funny.

 

And this is in any way a contradiction because? Super-humans registering with their respective governments doesn't seem like any extreme to me. Hell, it seems like it'd be a plus. Government subsidization for living could really help the less then financially well off to sustain themselves. And allow for a better education that isn't mired in class cutting and tardiness along with failed exams and assignments. Just to talk about peter parker's circumstance, after all not everyone is a billionare with their own multi-national corporations to fund their living expenses like Tony Stark or Bruce Wayne for example. 

 

[snip]

 

The fact that registration is presented as a loaded question is a load of bollocks. People who own guns don't register to become state employees, but they still register their firearms anyway for the safety of others around them and themselves. What happens if a copy-cat decides to impersonate said hero? What happens if someone replaces a heroes secret identity? These secnarios could easily be avoided with a registration to show no, this person isn't in fact who they claim to be.

 

 

 

I didn't read the comic. Perhaps it was presented in an oversimplified way. That said, for an analogy to work, it doesn't have to be a perfect one to one fit.

 

He can use ear pieces. He's deaf, but not 100%.
I dunno. I suppose bringing it up would actually involve giving Clint something to do. And that's just crazy.

 

Huh. I guess that makes him hard of hearing as opposed to deaf.

[TheClonesLegacy]

Huh. I guess that makes him hard of hearing as opposed to deaf.

Basically.

*Shrug*

[Sully13]

 

http://marvel.wikia....ton_(Earth-616)

Weaknesses

For a time, he was 80% deaf due to an injury sustained while in Crossfire's captivity, but his hearing was restored during his rebirth on Franklin Richards' Counter-Earth. He was again deafened by the Clown, who jammed Hawkeye's own arrows into both of Hawkeye's ears, causing damage to the middle and inner ears.[62] He remains largely deaf, and used sign language, and lip reading to understand those around him, while using normal speech to communicate to them.[63] He later started using hearing aids created by Tony Stark.[2]

 

It was also revealed that as a child, abuse from his father left him partially deaf, but it's unknown if it was temporary or if it lasted until adulthood, with him successfully hiding it

 

 

 

Yeah i looked it up. you learn smething new every day. ironic the Ronin thing with Echo then with them both being Deaf. 

 

BTW Mat Murdoch isnt the only DareDevil to have a inability. in early issues o the original 1920s Deardevil the titar hero was a mute.  

[Phoenix_Also_Rises]

Tony Stark is wrong. Labels are for things, not for people.

First question: what defines a man as a superman? (both genders intended)

 

Aherm.

 

An entity, created either through means of biological reproduction or artificially, by means of, e.g. a result of technological development, regardless whether intended or accidental (including but not limited to such cases as experiments, reverse-engineering of technology originating from places other than the planet Earth as of date of assessment of the Subject having passive registration legitimation, independent technology improvement and/or development, industrial or workplace accidents, etc.), where the artificially-created entity shall qualify as such only if it could be deemed to have discerning and decision-making capabilities as stipulated by applicable regulation governing criminal law, and the entity created by means of biological reproduction shall qualify as such upon the date that is deemed to be the date of birth for an entity, which is in all material respects could be deemed comparable, equivalent or reasonably expected as the entity in question (the "Subject"), and the Subject possesses capacities that include, but are not limited to, abilities which would, under ordinary circumstances, not be reasonably expected to occur, given the (i) state of technology, or (ii) biological, physical or chemical limitations of entities which, in all relevant respects, are equivalent to the Subject on the planet Earth at the time of assessment, where such limitations shall be assessed with respect to the state of technology prevalent at the time of such assessment and with respect to the capabilities and capacities of all entities that, in all material respects, could be deemed comparable, equivalent or reasonably expected of such entities (the "Abilities"), regardless of whether the Subject has come into existence already possessing the Abilities or has come into them over time. 

 

I managed this inside 15 minutes. I think that a top-notch legal team (which Tony Stark could doubtless afford) could do so much better in a few hours, let alone days. 

 

Team Stark all the way, in case anyone wonders, hah. 

[Phoenix_Also_Rises]

 

Double post. Sorry. Computer is...not cooperative.

[Commander Rpg]

I'd ask you to rewrite your script - it lacks logic in the phrases as they are put together, it has strange punctuation (no periods at all, where they are needed) - because I haven't understood what it is supposed to mean. Thank you.

[Cknarf]

We should totally make those superhumans register themselves! And list their weaknesses!

 

I have no ulterior motive.

 

 

Hail Hydra!

Lol. This here. There's always an ulterior motive when it comes to the government and registration of things, whether it be people or property.

 

"We wanna know what you have."

 

"What for?"

 

"We'd just feel better if we knew. That's all."

 

Uh-huh. Suuuuuuure.

 

Or

 

"Hey, would all of you guys in this specific group of people register with us?"

 

"Why?"

 

"So it makes it easier to round you up and extermin-- I mean just so... It's for uh... Census! Yes! That's it!"

 

Registration of property easily leads to confiscation, and in the case of people, possible elimination.  Scary stuff if you ask me.

[Queen Skadi]

I don't get the purpose of the debate, I thought most superheroes were already vigilantes who operate outside the law? So if a superhero registration act were to be passed what exactly changes for the superheroes who refuse to sign up?

[Rawgrim]

I dunno. I am getting sick of having to register everywhere. Create accounts, remembering passwords etc. No thanks.

[Fast Jimmy]

I'd ask you to rewrite your script - it lacks logic in the phrases as they are put together, it has strange punctuation (no periods at all, where they are needed) - because I haven't understood what it is supposed to mean. Thank you.

It's legal jargon. Actual legal defintions are written in a very similar format.

[Fast Jimmy]

I dunno. I am getting sick of having to register everywhere. Create accounts, remembering passwords etc. No thanks.

I see what you did there.

[Fast Jimmy]

I don't get the purpose of the debate, I thought most superheroes were already vigilantes who operate outside the law? So if a superhero registration act were to be passed what exactly changes for the superheroes who refuse to sign up?

They are hunted down? With federally funded and super-power fueled forces, not just the beat cops in whatever neighborhood they work.

In the Civil War comic series, every super powered individual who didn't sign up was actively hunted by everyone who did. When SHIELD, every government agency and a small army of superheroes are looking for you every second of the day, it makes life a lot more... stressful... than just being a. Vigilante superhero.

[Queen Skadi]

So not much changes for the Hulk?

[Sir Froggie]

So not much changes for the Hulk?

In the comics the writers had already blasted the Hulk into space, so that he would be a non-issue. Similarly all the Asguardians were dead and mutants were made into an endangered species so that they were already registered. This pretty much eliminated anyone that could make the Civil War a non-issue.

[Fast Jimmy]

In the comics the writers had already blasted the Hulk into space, so that he would be a non-issue. Similarly all the Asguardians were dead and mutants were made into an endangered species so that they were already registered. This pretty much eliminated anyone that could make the Civil War a non-issue.

Yeah, Decimation was a MUCH needed event to cull the absolutely crazy number of mutants running around. Which is why I'm glad the MCU hasn't (and probably won't ever be able to) introduced mutants.

[TheClonesLegacy]

So not much changes for the Hulk?

Planet Hulk was going on at the time. So Hulk wasn't involved.
Then he came back, leveled most of Manhattan. Then fought Sentry to a standstill. Leading to Hulks capture.

[Abraham_uk]

My solution is, make it optional as opposed to mandatory.

Provide the option for heroes who wish to be registered, whilst allowing those that don't to remain unregistered.