630 réponses à ce sujet

[Dai Grepher]

You're not scared? You seem to be spending an awful lot of energy on this hypothetical event that you're not scared of. Edit: seven posts on this page, and counting.

I still don't see how this hypothetical actually happens, or even what's in it. Not because it wouldn't fit Bio's vision or something, but it seems just kinda silly. What would the PC actually be doing to promote transgenderism? I can't even visualize it without coming up with dialogue as horrible as that line you proposed earlier.

And really, you can drop the "custom characters" smokescreen.

 

This is an issue raised by the twitter interview, and people have replied to my opinion of it (and many have liked it). I am merely discussing it with them. My energy is devoted to the discussion with my fellow forum-goers. And it isn't hypothetical if Weekes states that this is his intention for future titles.

 

It happens when Weekes writes a storyline and purposely withholds dialogue options allowing players to dissent.

 

I already told you. Agreeing with the transgender character, using the desired pronouns, encouraging the transgender behavior/action.

 

Or you can drop your preconceived and biased notions about me.

[Jaison1986]

Bioware is really bending over backwards to avoid verbal internet punches nowadays. They're really pathetic IMO. For years they've been pleasing the crowd in any way they can and it's come to the point where their fiction has lost its authenticity since DA:I in my opinion.

 

I don't hate on transgendered people. They can have a game that solely has a transgender romance partner if they want... but what I'm pissed about, is that Bioware,right now, only seems interested in this because people are threatening them to do it. I don't think Bioware would've done this by their own accord two or three years ago. Some good could come of it if they handle the theme with grace, but all I can think of is it becoming really dishonest and half-hearted and probably ignorant too. I know Patrick is a good guy and he knows a lot of people from all kinds of minorities, but I really hope he wouldn't just do transgender romance for the sake of including transgender people.

 

I just want romance, gay, straight, lesbian, metro or transsexual to be done so it feels like its in service of a bigger story, and not just their awful pandering romances that are pushed to the side as soon as you've seen their naked butts and all their initial impact goes away because "Too many variables to work with" and the endgame story in no way has any relation to your protagonist and his love interest.*GASP*

 

Just give us a good plot with rewarding choices ffs. (and optional and unrelated-to-plot romances gtfo)

 

Solas' romance in DA:I was the only romance option that I felt was truly good and in service of the plot... but the more romances they include the less room there is for main-story cinematics and ****, and there were, what, 8 romances in DA:I? EIGHT!? C'mon, Bioware, get back in the game. You were doing great 8 years ago (...wow, it really has been 8-9 years since I felt they rocked ass)

 

I kind of agree. I don't have a problem with characters of minorities being in the game. But it bothers me how... dishonest their addition feels. Like Patrick rather patronizing comment "There will be more trans/insert minority here characters in future games, weather you like it or not. Behold the token!".

 

We are into an age were everything is so over the top politically correct, that we don't have just characters anymore. I mean, people that are just people regardless of their gender, sexuality, skin color, etc. We just treat them like snowflakes to pander whiny overly sensitive people. What's genuine anymore? What isn't? How about adding a character that is trans but we don't dwell on it? Just like we don't dwell on people who are straight, male, etc. Wouldn't that feel more genuine? After all, wasn't the point to teach that people of minorities can be normal just like anyone else? So don't we kill that point when we obsses over the fact that these people are there just primarly to show how special they are for being a minority?

[Dai Grepher]

I usually save my alarm for when things actually happen, not when entertaining the possibility of something happening based on some predictive arguments. 

 

And I sound my alarm before the event takes place and it's too late to say or do anything about it. And this isn't based on predictive arguments, it's based on the twitter quotes of the lead writer.

[daveliam]

How about adding a character that is trans but we don't dwell on it?

 

You know what I'd like to see?  A trans character who is introduced to the game fairly early, but you don't learn he's trans until later, when you get to know him better.  It would also be great if, outside of one or two oblique references, his gender identity is a complete non-issue for the plot that he's involved in.  And that you don't even have to talk to him about it at all unless you choose to have that conversation with him.  I mean that would certainly be a character whose gender identity we don't dwell on, right?  And if we do dwell on it, then it must be because we want to and not because of the way he was added into the game, right?

 

I've got to disagree Dave, at one point I believed the same thing but now I don't care what the fan base is ready for, I mean when will it be the right time 20 years? I don't have the time or patience for that, the bigots can all go **** themselves. I've heard their **** for way too long already, bring on Mae as a companion and Li and I most certainly hope that she takes one of the bigoted ***** spots too.

 

I'm not going to lie, Danielle.  I was actually thinking of you specifically when I talked about how bad I felt for feeling this way because it feels like I'm not supporting people who I genuinely like.  It felt a bit like a betrayal.  I totally understand why you feel the way you do.  Your points are totally valid on this. 

[DuskWanderer]

You know what I'd like to see?  A trans character who is introduced to the game fairly early, but you don't learn he's trans until later, when you get to know him better.  It would also be great if, outside of one or two oblique references, his gender identity is a complete non-issue for the plot that he's involved in.  And that you don't even have to talk to him about it at all unless you choose to have that conversation with him.  I mean that would certainly be a character whose gender identity we don't dwell on, right?  And if we do dwell on it, then it must be because we want to and not because of the way he was added into the game, right?

 

You know what? I could get behind that. The problem is, according to the tweets, that doesn't seem to be what Weekes wants. He's obsessed with making it an issue. 

[daveliam]

You know what? I could get behind that. The problem is, according to the tweets, that doesn't seem to be what Weekes wants. He's obsessed with making it an issue. 

 

You realize that I was describing Krem, right?  Written by Weekes.

[Jaison1986]

You know what I'd like to see?  A trans character who is introduced to the game fairly early, but you don't learn he's trans until later, when you get to know him better.  It would also be great if, outside of one or two oblique references, his gender identity is a complete non-issue for the plot that he's involved in.  And that you don't even have to talk to him about it at all unless you choose to have that conversation with him.  I mean that would certainly be a character whose gender identity we don't dwell on, right?  And if we do dwell on it, then it must be because we want to and not because of the way he was added into the game, right?

 

 

I like that. It sounds great actually. It's an tasteful, clever adition. It's not blunt or forcefull, and still manages to add said character without much issue. Honestly, I like it better then what Weeks aparently seems to be heading for.

[raging_monkey]

I've got to disagree Dave, at one point I believed the same thing but now I don't care what the fan base is ready for, I mean when will it be the right time 20 years? I don't have the time or patience for that, the bigots can all go **** themselves. I've heard their **** for way too long already, bring on Mae as a companion and Li and I most certainly hope that she takes one of the bigoted ***** spots too.

*gives award for best post of 2015 in the monkey awards*

[Sui Causa]

You realize that I was describing Krem, right?  Written by Weekes.

*mic drop*

[BansheeOwnage]

 

How about adding a character that is trans but we don't dwell on it? Just like we don't dwell on people who are straight, male, etc. Wouldn't that feel more genuine?

It's not exactly dwelt upon. There are a couple of lines about it in the entire game, and any others come from optional questions. Also consider that if someone like Maevaris is a companion, it will feel considerably less "dwelt upon" because it will take up less of the character's overall content. Which is why they should have probably just waited to have the first trans character be a companion and not an NPC.

[DuskWanderer]

You realize that I was describing Krem, right?  Written by Weekes.

 

Except no. It's actually brought up when you go and talk to Iron Bull. There's never a mention that you're going to talk about transgenderism. Try harder

[DuskWanderer]

What exactly has Weekes said that is such an issue, that there will be more trans characters or that you won't be able to belittle them.

 

That if we don't want to have trans characters forced down our throats, we should play other games. 

[BansheeOwnage]

I've got to disagree Dave, at one point I believed the same thing but now I don't care what the fan base is ready for, I mean when will it be the right time 20 years? I don't have the time or patience for that, the bigots can all go **** themselves. I've heard their **** for way too long already, bring on Mae as a companion and Li and I most certainly hope that she takes one of the bigoted ***** spots too.

That's what my heart says, but my brain doesn't want to see any more vitriol than I have to. Or maybe it's the other way around. Either way, I'm conflicted, but I think I lean a little more to your side.

 

I like that. It sounds great actually. It's an tasteful, clever adition. It's not blunt or forcefull, and still manages to add said character without much issue. Honestly, I like it better then what Weeks aparently seems to be heading for.

To be honest, I think this is how they'll approach it next time around. I hope, at least. Because the problem with Krem is that he didn't have enough content outside of that conversation (in some people's opinion. I thought he had a lot of other stuff to talk about.) But if the next character is a lot more prominent, we won't see that criticism as much.

[AlanC9]

Which is why they should have probably just waited to have the first trans character be a companion and not an NPC.

Hmm. Wouldn't this have just caused even more complaints about having the character "rammed down our throats"?

[AlexiaRevan]

This is an issue raised by the twitter interview, and people have replied to my opinion of it (and many have liked it). I am merely discussing it with them. My energy is devoted to the discussion with my fellow forum-goers. And it isn't hypothetical if Weekes states that this is his intention for future titles.

 

It happens when Weekes writes a storyline and purposely withholds dialogue options allowing players to dissent.

 

I already told you. Agreeing with the transgender character, using the desired pronouns, encouraging the transgender behavior/action.

 

Or you can drop your preconceived and biased notions about me.

So for all your choices Talk...you want the choice to be a bigot . encouraging the Transgender Behavior/action 

 

How do you actually encourage krem? You don't . You ask him questions and that is it . 

 

Stop making a big deal out of it and grow up . 

[Sui Causa]

Except no. It's actually brought up when you go and talk to Iron Bull. There's never a mention that you're going to talk about transgenderism. Try harder

So having a big: "WARNING, WARNING, WARNING. YOU ARE ABOUT TO ADDRESS A CHARACTER ABOUT THEIR GENDER" whenever a trans character is involved? Yes, that will clearly make it feel less gimmicky and more natural in the game.

 

If you want to play an RPG about a straight cis man having straight cis sex with straight cis women with no care that you might run across some minority being shoved down your throat, then the Witcher series, or literally any other series is available for your perusal. I am glad Bioware takes this stance.

 

CD Projeckt's stance on people wanting gay romance in their games is to go play other games that offer that. The masses rally behind them as the bastion of hope against the terrible SJW's. Yet Bioware takes that stance and shock of shocks, people cry about how things are being shoved down their throats. I can't eye roll hard enough right now.

[BansheeOwnage]

There's nothing wrong with Krem, he was a good start and I appreciate their efforts. The only thing wrong with Krem for the bigots is that they can't ridicule him before they kill him. It's like having a main course without an appetizer.

No, there isn't anything wrong with Krem at all. I liked him. I was just saying that it might have been a better idea to wait a little while and make a more polished scene about a trans character, as well as starting with a character that was more important to the story and had more content. You know, if Mae was the first one, then Krem was in the game after that, it probably would have worked better. Maybe. I don't know.

[daveliam]

Nothing in my post was incorrect about Krem.  You don't have to talk to him about it.  It's mentioned by Bull in an off-handed way that doesn't need to be followed up on.  If you talk to him about it, it's because you choose to do so.  That character description was accurate for Krem.  You just didn't realize it because you've convinced yourself that Krem is more than he is in the game. 

[AlexiaRevan]

That if we don't want to have trans characters forced down our throats, we should play other games. 

Oh I don't know..been having Hetero shoved down my throat since I was born..I'm still a ******...it can't kill you 

[DuskWanderer]

So having a big: "WARNING, WARNING, WARNING. YOU ARE ABOUT TO ADDRESS A CHARACTER ABOUT THEIR GENDER" whenever a trans character is involved? Yes, that will clearly make it feel less gimmicky and more natural in the game.

 

If you want to play an RPG about a straight cis man having straight cis sex with straight cis women with no care that you might run across some minority being shoved down your throat, then the Witcher series, or literally any other series is available for your perusal. I am glad Bioware takes this stance.

 

Or it could just not be there. Seriously. It was about as ham-fisted as William Shatner. I can forgive outright pandering if I can ignore it. What I can't forgive is bad writing. 

[Steelcan]

guys don't get too feisty I want to see David explain how gender arose, its only a matter of time before he's an expert in psychology, gender roles, biology, and anthropology/paleontology