630 réponses à ce sujet

[DuskWanderer]

Nothing in my post was incorrect about Krem.  You don't have to talk to him about it.  It's mentioned by Bull in an off-handed way that doesn't need to be followed up on.  If you talk to him about it, it's because you choose to do so.  That character description was accurate for Krem.  You just didn't realize it because you've convinced yourself that Krem is more than he is in the game. 

Yes, it was. The sheer fact that the choice wheel comes up with ridiculous lines like it did makes it brought up without making a selection. I get that you'll say anything to make your statement sound true, but actual truth works better. 

 

If you want other shoveled down our throat stuff, listen to the banter between IB and Cole. I can't take those two together in a party because I'm sick of hearing it.

[Steelcan]

If you want to play an RPG about a straight cis man having straight cis sex with straight cis women with no care that you might run across some minority being shoved down your throat, then the Witcher series, or literally any other series is available for your perusal. I am glad Bioware takes this stance.

 

CD Projeckt's stance on people wanting gay romance in their games is to go play other games that offer that. The masses rally behind them as the bastion of hope against the terrible SJW's. Yet Bioware takes that stance and shock of shocks, people cry about how things are being shoved down their throats. I can't eye roll hard enough right now.

Ok I'm actually going to draw a line here

 

if you think the Witcher, or all other fantasy RPGs are nothing but male power fantasy trips with only BioWare holding a torch against the darkness that is bigotry you seriously need to get out more

[daveliam]

No.  You are wrong.  You do not need to talk to Krem about his gender identity.  It's not important to the plots that he's involved in.  And you don't even know he's trans until after getting to know him a little better.  Everything I posted was 100% accurate.

 

ETA:  To DuskWanderer, not steelcan.  I'm on my tablet and it won't let me quote for some reason.

[BansheeOwnage]

Maybe she will be post op then you won't have anything shoved down your throats.

That's not really a thing in DA, although I stand by my theory that it could be easily done using the Mirror of Transformation... if you're lucky enough to get invited to the Black Emporium.

 

Hmm. Wouldn't this have just caused even more complaints about having the character "rammed down our throats"?

I suppose. Well, it's academic now, they already had a non-companion first.

 

 

Or it could just not be there. Seriously. It was about as ham-fisted as William Shatner. I can forgive outright pandering if I can ignore it. What I can't forgive is bad writing. 

You really can ignore it though.

[DuskWanderer]

That's not really a thing in DA, although I stand by my theory that it could be easily done using the Mirror of Transformation.

 

I suppose. Well, it's academic now, they already had a non-companion first.

 

 

You really can ignore it though.

I should not have to ignore bad writing.

[Sui Causa]

Ok I'm actually going to draw a line here

 

if you think the Witcher, or all other fantasy RPGs are nothing but male power fantasy trips with only BioWare holding a torch against the darkness that is bigotry you seriously need to get out more

They're not. All other fantasy RPG's make video games that sell, that involve good stories and exciting plots and all the stuff that has been selling ye old fantasy novels for years. But Bioware is willing to put gay characters in their games to be romanced by the player, which just doesn't happen in other fantasy game. And then they get crapped on for doing it because they're not allowed to make their games their way, when other game companies can.

 

Bioware has every right to tell people to play other games, the same way other companies tell people to play Dragon Age if they want something different from the usual. It's a two sided coin.

[In Exile]

That definition is funny.

 

A tiger is an animal that is a tiger.

 

The color red is the color of the red things.

 

That doesn't work as a parallel, because the referential concept in the definition "woman = person who identifies as a woman" is the term identifies. Note that in your hypothetical (joke) examples, the operator that you're using is by itself. The tiger example is actually the best illustration. To whit:

 

1. A woman is a person who identifies as a woman.

 2. A tiger is an animal who is a tiger. 

 

The fundamental difference is the identifies vs. the is.  This ties into your second point: 

 

 

Knowing other, different words is expected. However, I would like to be able to understand the definition of a word without having prior knowledge of the definition of that same word. I'm not fond of infinite loops.

 

The definition is not recursive because of the use of the term "identifies". 

[In Exile]

I've got to disagree Dave, at one point I believed the same thing but now I don't care what the fan base is ready for, I mean when will it be the right time 20 years? I don't have the time or patience for that, the bigots can all go **** themselves. I've heard their **** for way too long already, bring on Mae as a companion and Li and I most certainly hope that she takes one of the bigoted ***** spots too.

 

It's not about the fanbase being ready. Look at what we're seeing right now in this thread at the very concept of someone like Krem existing. The level of transphobia that we'll see with a male to female LI will be almost inconceivably vitriolic. That's not to say that Bioware shouldn't do it. But we need to be realistic about what will happen if they do it. 

[DuskWanderer]

No.  You are wrong.  You do not need to talk to Krem about his gender identity.  It's not important to the plots that he's involved in.  And you don't even know he's trans until after getting to know him a little better.  Everything I posted was 100% accurate.

 

ETA:  To DuskWanderer, not steelcan.  I'm on my tablet and it won't let me quote for some reason.

 

I don't know if it works for this site, but try putting an "m" before the "forum.bioware", that helps for some websites. 

 

The only thing you get to learn about Krem before it comes up is "I'm with the Chargers" and "I like to drink". You are not accurate. Please stop pretending you are. I can forgive that you like Krem, but please just stick to the truth.

[AlexiaRevan]

They're not. All other fantasy RPG's make video games that sell, that involve good stories and exciting plots and all the stuff that has been selling ye old fantasy novels for years. But Bioware is willing to put gay characters in their games to be romanced by the player, which just doesn't happen in other fantasy game. And then they get crapped on for doing it because they're not allowed to make their games their way, when other game companies can.

 

Bioware has every right to tell people to play other games, the same way other companies tell people to play Dragon Age if they want something different from the usual. It's a two sided coin.

You got it all wrong . The anti-Gay-Trans and all are the one who've been whining and making a big deal out of it and the one who are getting in the way how Bioware wanna make their games . 

 

Gay content was in mass effect and it didn't stop the game from being Amazing . 

[DuskWanderer]

It's not about the fanbase being ready. Look at what we're seeing right now in this thread at the very concept of someone like Krem existing. The level of transphobia that we'll see with a male to female LI will be almost inconceivably vitriolic. That's not to say that Bioware shouldn't do it. But we need to be realistic about what will happen if they do it. 

Ah, and here we go. Most people who use the word phobia truly have no idea what it is. I dare say, it says more about the person speaking than the intended recipient. It shows you can't handle dissenting thought, and seek to shame into silence.

[In Exile]

I should not have to ignore bad writing.

 

Don't play a Bioware game, then, because they've got a hell of a lot of it. More to the point, you're just wrong about how the scene is handled. It's a(n almost incredibly) contrived introduction, but there's no mandatory speech you have to sit through unless you actively pick the option that further engages with the topic. 

[DuskWanderer]

Don't play a Bioware game, then, because they've got a hell of a lot of it. More to the point, you're just wrong about how the scene is handled. It's a(n almost incredibly) contrived introduction, but there's no mandatory speech you have to sit through unless you actively pick the option that further engages with the topic. 

You mean you don't read the choices you're offered on the dialogue wheel? You just pick at random? 

[daveliam]

@DuskWanderer  I actually don't really like Krem.  I've been pretty clear about that.  I find him to be a boring NPC and I think both his detractors and fans try to make more out of his character than he is.  But I can allow myself to think about him objectively.  You can have numerous conversations and scenes with Krem (when you first meet him at Haven; the recruitment scenes; his dialogue tree at Haven/Skyhold) that can all happen prior to learning he's trans.  This is a perfect example of people misremembering what happened because of their personal feelings.

 

Also, are you now suggesting to InExile that just the fact that a dialogue option appears is too much for you?  Really?  An optional dialogue option showing up is something that you are complaining about?

[BansheeOwnage]

About a different part of this interview, I tweeted Weekes about Hawke being "obviously" alive. My impression is that even if you leave Hawke in the fade, he thinks it's obvious s/he might not be dead. I agree.

[Sui Causa]

You got it all wrong . The anti-Gay-Trans and all are the one who've been whining and making a big deal out of it and the one who are getting in the way how Bioware wanna make their games . 

 

Gay content was in mass effect and it didn't stop the game from being Amazing . 

Haha, exactly though. It's the anti-gay-trans people that are being told to go shove it, and I'm glad. I'm annoyed that they're crying about it when they turn around and un-ironically praise the companies that have been creating video games for them for years as doing something crazy and unusual and totally inspiring for 'making games the way they want to'.

 

Bioware is standing up to them, and that's all that matters and continuing to make their games the way they want. The people who complain about it can leave. As long as Bioware never gives in to their bitching I will be happy. :3

[In Exile]

Ah, and here we go. Most people who use the word phobia truly have no idea what it is. I dare say, it says more about the person speaking than the intended recipient. It shows you can't handle dissenting thought, and seek to shame into silence.

 

Oh. A debate about how we should give words their original Latin (Greek, apparently ) meaning with a complete and utter ignorance of any social context or historical development over the past few centuries. Great. Are you going to take the same moral stance on the world "vulgar"? How dare I use it to refer to anything other than "commoner"! I'm tired of people always using the word to denote a lack of sophistication or good taste. What about villain? The terror of using it to mean evil person (esp. in a story or narrative) rather than its true meaning of farmer (or farmhand). 

 

Here's what the word "transphobia" means today. By definition. It means:

 

trans·pho·bi·a

ˌtranzˈfōbēə/

noun

 

1. intense dislike of or prejudice against transsexual or transgender people.

 

It's used properly, and there's certainly no attempt to "silence" dissent. Just like calling someone a racist piece of ****. I'm not trying to silence the racist. I'm just expressing my incredible distain for them. 

[In Exile]

You mean you don't read the choices you're offered on the dialogue wheel? You just pick at random? 

 

You think reading options on the dialogue wheel amounts to being "forced" to sit through a morality tale about tolerance? That's the line in the sand you're drawing? This is an absurd position. No reasonable person would use that definition of the word "forced", so there's no possible reply or discussion we might have on this point. Continue to feel forced, by all means. But it's unreasonable. 

[BansheeOwnage]

Oh. A debate about how we should give words their original Latin meaning with a complete and utter ignorance of any social context or historical development over the past few centuries. Great. Are you going to take the same moral stance on the world "vulgar"? How dare I use it to refer to anything other than "commoner"! I'm tired of people always using the word to denote a lack of sophistication or good taste. What about villain? The terror of using it to mean evil person (esp. in a story or narrative) rather than its true meaning of farmer (or farmhand). 

 

Here's what the word "transphobia" means today. By definition. It means:

 

trans·pho·bi·a

ˌtranzˈfōbēə/

noun

 

1. intense dislike of or prejudice against transsexual or transgender people.

 

It's used properly, and there's certainly no attempt to "silence" dissent. Just like calling someone a racist piece of ****. I'm not trying to silence the racist. I'm just expressing my incredible distain for them. 

Thanks for saying all that. I considered it, but you worded it better than I would have.

[Jaison1986]

About a different part of this interview, I tweeted Weekes about Hawke being "obviously" alive. My impression is that even if you leave Hawke in the fade, he thinks it's obvious s/he might not be dead. I agree.

 

*Sniff* What about Loghain? No one could hate the Orlesians so flawlessly as he did..

[DuskWanderer]

@DuskWanderer  I actually don't really like Krem.  I've been pretty clear about that.  I find him to be a boring NPC and I think both his detractors and fans try to make more out of his character than he is.  But I can allow myself to think about him objectively.  You can have numerous conversations and scenes with Krem (when you first meet him at Haven; the recruitment scenes; his dialogue tree at Haven/Skyhold) that can all happen prior to learning he's trans.  This is a perfect example of people misremembering what happened because of their personal feelings.

 

Also, are you now suggesting to InExile that just the fact that a dialogue option appears is too much for you?  Really?  An optional dialogue option showing up is something that you are complaining about?

Again, the first two, you only learn that Krem is in the Chargers, that Krem is from Tevinter, and Krem likes to drink. The other conversations in the wheel are about the other Chargers (it's a little weird since you haven't met the rest of the Chargers yet). I actually am okay with Krem. What I don't like is the fact that Weekes seems to admit Krem is a boring character and only threw the trans in an attempt to make him interesting (he's not). It's an excuse for bad writing.

[Secret Rare]

I will never understand of why people seems to be so obsessed to drown all their hate through fictional characters,and their sexuality.

Why they need these kind of options to begin with?

Why these options will add some value or quality to the game? Roleplayng they would say...

Let's suppose that the developers will give to us the options to disrespectful disagree with Krem,Dorian,Sera regarding their sexuality which is something that i find useless to begin with.

What the "bigot" wish to expect is some sort of personal "satisfaction" to have gained the possibility to express to someone that doesn't even exist in the first place,a childish (at best) point of view.

Fictional characters are there to entertain us in the way that the writers have wrote them,so why bother to hate them? You are just wasting time.

[Steelcan]

phobia is a Greek word

 

 

not Latin >.>

 

 

carry on