630 réponses à ce sujet

[raging_monkey]

Again it's happening Just accept it or boycott with your wallet And leave if it's not the bioware you knew 20 years ago tough And move on

[daveliam]

I understand that people have a hard time understanding transgenderism.  It's a difficult concept to understand as someone who isn't experiencing it.  I'm about far left leaning as you can get and I didn't really understand it for years. 

 

But I can't help but scratch my head at how many people confuse gender and biological sex, despite it being brought up that they are different over and over in the thread.  I also find it mildly amusing when those people accuse other people of 'ignoring (the) reality' of biological sex when they themselves are ignoring that the discussion is not about biological sex at all.

[The Elder King]

So in the end you would like people to lie about facts because that makes someone feel better? Sure I guess I can tell that white color is black and black color is white if that makes you feel better. This though won't change the FACT that white color is white and black color is black.
 
It's not stubborness it's how our bodies are created by nature. No amount of social justice or politics will change this.

That's Not the same for transgendered people though. It was already posted that there were researchs about MtF having The part of the brain responsible for gender female-sized, and FtM have It male-sized.

[Jaison1986]

I'm sorry, but who is this Maevaris people are talking about? I never heard about this character before.

[SofaJockey]

So in the end you would like people to lie about facts because that makes someone feel better? Sure I guess I can tell that white color is black and black color is white if that makes you feel better. This though won't change the FACT that white color is white and black color is black.

 

It's not stubborness it's how our bodies are created by nature. No amount of social justice or politics will change this.

 

Not lies at all.

I'll give another example.

 

Many countries now have (legally enshrined) same sex marriage.

(something some raised an eyebrow over when Cortez referenced his late husband in ME3)

 

To some, the meaning of the term 'marriage' would only describe a mixed sex couple.

Yet that word now includes (legally and correctly) mixed and same sex people who are 'married'.

Hence the word 'marriage' factually includes same sex couples.

 

Tallis is a Qunari. Does she have the physiology of the horned race? No. Does that make her any less Qunari? No. She is Qunari. Fact.

 

Krem is male because 'he is'.

That's his reality, irrespective of his plumbing.

It is for him to assert the fact of his male identity.

 

This is about identity, not about bodies.

This is not particularly about 'social justice' - when did that become a dirty term by the way? Why is promoting justice in society a bad thing?

This is not about politics, it is about society being more grown up.

 

And this misconception 'issue' is big enough to stop you playing the game?
Yes, that strikes me as pretty stubborn.

[The Elder King]

I'm sorry, but who is this Maevaris people are talking about? I never heard about this character before.

Comics. Tevinter magister that was Varric's cousin's lover (the latter died).

[raging_monkey]

I'm sorry, but who is this Maevaris people are talking about? I never heard about this character before.

http://dragonage.wik...Maevaris_Tilanishe's a comic character that's mentioned in DAI

[daveliam]

Maevaris is a character from the comics.  She's Varric's cousin's widow.  She's a Tevinter Magister (one of the more liberal ones in favor of reforming the Imperium).  In the comics, she helps Varric, Alistair, and Isabela out while they are in Tevinter.  Part way through the story, you find out she's a transwoman (but it's done by showing her topless in a non-sexual way).  She's interesting because she's got differing views from most Magisters that we've seen, she is a human who was married to a dwarf, and she's a transwoman in Tevinter (which gives us another view on how transpeople are viewed there).

 

She's also in the games in Dorian's War Table quests.  You can lend her support as she petitions the Imperium for reform and then support her afterwards.  It draws a link between Dorian and Mae.  Gaider has stated that she's one of his favorite characters in the settings.  He wanted to add her into DA: I in a more significant way, but her development came about too far into the game's development to add her in.  All of this has led people to suspect that she'll show up as a major character if we go to Tevinter.  Possibly as a companion.

[Steelcan]

And now we're getting into moralizing, self victimization, and so on....

Time to bug out

[Jaison1986]

Comics. Tevinter magister that was Varric's cousin's lover (the latter died).

 

Oh, yes. That character. Now I remember. The name slipped my mind, so I wasn't making the connection.

[DuskWanderer]

Baking cookies is not a common thing for men. What about all those male bakers and chefs?

Compare it to the amount of women that bake. There are always more amateurs than professionals.

[Andraste_Reborn]

FYI: Social Justice is a bad thing because it's nothing more than class warfare.

 

Yeah, I hate being able to vote and own stuff.

[daveliam]

I see that people have finally given up the façade of 'more choice' as the genesis for the 'disagree with transgenderism' argument.  At least they are finally being honest......

[raging_monkey]

I see that people have finally given up the façade of 'more choice' as the genesis for the 'disagree with transgenderism' argument. At least they are finally being honest......

agreed

[Alex Hawke]

 

Part 2

 

1. VGS ‏@VGS_640  40m40 minutes ago

   #BiowareTalk with @PatrickWeekes: Hawke might not be dead! Well obviously

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2.  

   VGS ‏@VGS_640  42m42 minutes ago

   #BiowareTalk with @PatrickWeekes: Here Lies the Abyss originally was suppose to be where you met, The Architect from DAI DLC

 

Does it mean that if the Warden was left in the Fade, he's alive and will appear in DLC for DA:I? Possibly with the Architect (or the lieutenant for PTs, where he's dead)?

 

About transcharacters. The player should have choice to be a hateful bigot, otherwise it would decrease value of the option to be a decent human (Qunari, etc.) being. Though, the character should have opportunity to explain to the player, how wrong they are by blocking a side quest line or providing permanent 5% penalty to player's HP. And not everyone wants to be a walking library, who has to justify and explain own existence and dignity.

[BioWareMod01]

Hello everyone. Allan has made it clear that we are not having the pronoun debate on the forums. Please focus the discussion on other parts of the OP. Thank you.

[SofaJockey]

Looking forward to hearing the interview when it is posted.

Tweets rarely do justice to a full conversation.

[llandwynwyn]

On Krem...

 

The first time I played, I'd no idea that we could talk much with Krem or even send him on missions.  So I only really learned about his life in my second pt, and it was both surprisingly and heartwarming, especially his convo about his dad. I also loved that he wasn't a token character, taking to him about Tevinter was interesting and I think he made a good contrast to the information that Dorian gave.

 

Patrick chose to make #Cole more spirit

 

awww that's my fave as well.

 

 

#WolfHuntWhen

[Wittand25]

On a lot of levels I might agree with the bolded part but not on gender. This is not an opinion but a fact. People might prefer being something different or prefer the same sex company (which is legitimate) but this does not change the fact they are born with a specific detemined gender which is something different from how we perceive ourself. I might consider myself close to Swedish people in the way of thinking or preferences but that doesn't change the fact that i'm German because I was born as one.

No gender is not opinion, in that you are right. You are wrong however in thinking gender=sex.

I know that german uses the same word for both "Geschlecht" but they are different concepts.

Sex is basically the plumbing.

Gender in reference to this topic is the "sex of the brain". http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender, http://de.wikipedia....lechtsidentität

 

Both are pretty much set at birth. And of course for most people sex and gender match, but for some individuals their sex and their gender don´t match. This involves no choiche by the individual in question just like there is no choiche for handedness.

[BabyPuncher]

And because these things aren't universal and somehow divorced from culture, we can go about changing them if we want. Cultures change what they see as desirable all the time, consciously or otherwise.
 
I'm not convinced that all we see is all that the audience wants to see. It's certainly not all that I want to see. I'm not convinced that entire potential audience for BioWare games objects to trans people - and fat people and short people and people of colour and women and disabled people and gay people and bi people and ... well, everyone else who is not a tall, conventionally attractive straight, white, able-bodied cis dude - appearing in their fiction.

Yes, if people don't want to watch gay people being gay and fat people being fat, just show them enough gay and fat people and they'll eventually come to love them. A totally foolproof idea.

I'm not going to go into all the reasons I find that ridiculous, but here's a little food for thought for you. All cultures have beauty and gender standards and ideals. Every one. From modern western society to preliterate cultures that have never seen an advertisement or visual work of fiction in their lives.

Which is really what this is all about: Exclusion. The source of your frustration, I'm sure? The reality of exclusion, and how much I'm sure you're upset over the fact that innocent people are excluded for reasons often outside their control.

Culture might change, but exclusion is here to stay. Whenever standards and ideals exist, people are going to fail to meet them and suffer for it. And the only way to get rid of that is to obliterate any and all ideals and standards. Which is not going to happen.

To that end, I would really suggest to learn to live with that simple and obvious reality.

[BabyPuncher]

I also find it mildly amusing when those people accuse other people of 'ignoring (the) reality' of biological sex when they themselves are ignoring that the discussion is not about biological sex at all.

No, I don't think so. That's what you want it to not be about. That's what you want to not be an issue, to not matter.

But the reality is that that's precisely what this discussion is all about. Biological sex, and how very much it does matter and will continue to matter to the overwhelmingly vast majority of people.

[daveliam]

No it is not.  You still don't understand the difference the difference between biological sex and gender.  I know you are going to say that you do but that you dismiss the concept of gender.  But that just serves to support my case.  You don't understand it and you've taken the stance it doesn't exist so that you don't have to change your own views on things.  That's fine, but call it what it is. 

 

Krem's biological sex is female.  No one will argue with that.  No one.  But his gender identity is male.  People who see him as male (the way that he sees himself) are making two statements:  1.). How someone sees themselves is a valid view and something that you can (and some would argue, should) support; and 2.)  In situations where biological sex and gender identity don't align, someone's gender identity is the more important aspect for their identity.  Ultimately, it comes down to this:  If it doesn't cost you anything at all, why not just make someone else feel good.  You have nothing to lose to recognize someone else's gender identity, but they have a lot to lose if you refuse to do so.  So why not just do it?  What's the personal benefit in refusing to be supportive of someone?  It seems spiteful, rude, and patronizing to continue to use a narrow, singular view on identity (and repeatedly hand wave other views out of existence) in order to support your case.  That's my view on in.

 

Now, because the mods have repeatedly asked to not have this conversation, I'll be happy to continue discussing it PM if you want.