630 réponses à ce sujet

[BabyPuncher]

No, I dismiss the concept of gender that is deliberately constructed to be entirely meaningless and pointless. I dismiss the concept of 'A woman is someone who identifies as a woman' as being anything but the absurdity it is.

1) I don't alter my views to make feel better. I'll be polite, and refrain from saying things loudly in public, but I'll still think them.

2) This couldn't be further from the truth. People like you and Mr. Weekes and demanding I 'lose' a thing of monumental value. Demanding that I and everyone else pay a gigantic, disgustingly abhorrent cost. You're demanding I throw away the concept of femininity and every bit of value I see in it. Demanding I recognize any sweaty, hairy, obese male as equally feminine and equally entitled to all the love, allure, and appreciation that femininity brings as a beautiful smiling girl in a dress the moment he decides to say "I identify as a woman."

[DuskWanderer]

The mods have made it clear they don't want this conversation to continue. Everyone should shut up about it immediately before the thread gets locked. 

[daveliam]

No one is saying that femininity is being lost.  Femininity still exists.  I just acknowledge that it's not reserved solely for biological women.  Just like not all biological women are equally feminine to each other, there are biological males who are feminine.  It doesn't mean that you have to be attracted to them. It's kind of silly to think that you need to be attracted to all feminine people. 

 

There are some transwomen (like Carmen Carrera) who are way more feminine than some biological women.  There are also biological men who are more feminine than biological women.  That doesn't mean that you need to be attracted to any of them. 

 

You are attracted to feminine biological women.  Good for you.  That doesn't mean that femininity is reserved solely for biological women.

[DuskWanderer]

Dave, knock it off. The mods have said they don't want this to continue. 

[BabyPuncher]

First things first. So you would agree that the liberal feminism perspective that anyone who identifies as a woman is just as feminine and just as much of a 'real woman' as any other woman is therefore wrong, then? Therefore a lie? That the sweaty, hairy, obese man is less feminine than Liv Tyler, regardless of what he identifies as?

[daveliam]

Taking it to PM.

[The Elder King]

No, I dismiss the concept of gender that is deliberately constructed to be entirely meaningless and pointless. I dismiss the concept of 'A woman is someone who identifies as a woman' as being anything but the absurdity it is.
1) I don't alter my views to make feel better. I'll be polite, and refrain from saying things loudly in public, but I'll still think them.
2) This couldn't be further from the truth. People like you and Mr. Weekes and demanding I 'lose' a thing of monumental value. Demanding that I and everyone else pay a gigantic, disgustingly abhorrent cost. You're demanding I throw away the concept of femininity and every bit of value I see in it. Demanding I recognize any sweaty, hairy, obese male as equally feminine and equally entitled to all the love, allure, and appreciation that femininity brings as a beautiful smiling girl in a dress the moment he decides to say "I identify as a woman."

They're Not demanding you to lose anything, or recognize anything. You're Not forced to buy their games. They informed you of What you might find in the following games (Beside the fact that you're Not forced to approve anything in DAI either), so you're free to decide If you want to buy their games. As they're free to make their games as they want.

[The Elder King]

First things first. So you would agree that the liberal feminism perspective that anyone who identifies as a woman is just as feminine and just as much of a 'real woman' as any other woman is therefore wrong, then? Therefore a lie? That the sweaty, hairy, obese man is less feminine than Liv Tyler, regardless of what he identifies as?

Don't you think that an obese woman is less feminine then said Liv Tyler as well?

[BSpud]

The world always needs more Dunning-Kruger casualties who reduce complex facets of nature with their "common sense" preconceptions.

[BabyPuncher]

Don't you think that an obese woman is less feminine then said Liv Tyler as well?

Yes, I do.

[Panda]

It's not this that is the problem. That was aknowledged and feared. The fear being expressed by the poster, the above poster that you are engaging, for this to happen https://www.youtube....C6j1QpK5g&t=49s to him in the game and for BioWare to deliberately do so to antagonize a section of their fanbase.

 

Which is of course complete BS! BioWare is showing, at least in DAI, respect to all its fanbase!

 

I don't think that Bioware would reveal character being trans as suprise in middle of romance. Most likely they would do it before character locks in the romance, but I don't know how relevant this fear even is at this point, since I don't think BW will do transgendered LI, not at least in the next game.

[The Elder King]

Yes, I do.

What about a transgender woman who'd look similar to Liv Tyler?

[BabyPuncher]

What about a transgender woman who'd look similar to Liv Tyler?

No, I would not find such a person feminine.

[Panda]

Yet, that seems to be part of the fear said poster is expressing as seen here:

 

 

 

 

So the issue isn't femininity, but more about being tricked to fall in love with a character, who has great character and is feminine, but ...well you get the point hopefully.

 

And as you said, BioWare will not do such a thing!

 

If you fall in love with transwoman character you still fall in love with female character. I know some can't take transpeople being what gender they identify with and see it as huge problem, because of it, but Bioware doesn't see it like that. Still I pretty much don't think Bioware will "trick" people into romance, since they wouldn't gain anything from that other than some angry players having outcry and no I doubt they would get any schadenfreude from it and I doubt LGBT+ supporting players either, it'd be just annoying.

   

Also personally I think that most of people would like to know if their partner is trans, cause it can be new to many people and something they need to think about before hopping into romance. Though I'm not sure what is proper etiquette here, should transperson reveal being trans to other people or doesn't it matter at all, since person still is their gender ^^

[Dabrikishaw]

I'm really torn on this.  I wrote about it recently in a different thread.  As much as I'd hate to say that a trans character shouldn't be a romance because of his/her gender identity, I just don't think that the fanbase is ready for that.  I mean, look at the 'controversy' that arose simply from Weekes saying that they will include trans characters in future games.  Their very presence is causing paranoid predictions of players being 'forced' to 'agree with transgenderism' and being tricked into being sexually involved with them.  I think a slower approach is necessary here.  I'd like to see Maevaris play a prominent role (hopefully as a companion) in an upcoming game first. 

 

I know it's an unusually conservative approach from me, but I just can't shake it (even though it makes me feel kind of icky).

I agree with the idea that a good portion of this fanbase isn't mature enough or ready for a romance-able trans character, but I disagree that it means Bioware shouldn't make one until they are just because of the future backlash and vitriol they'll get. Something like that cannot be taken into consideration when making new characters period.

[TevinterSupremacist]

Ah, saw the mod coment after I posted, no point in pursuing that discussion path.

Modifié par TevinterSupremacist, 06 juin 2015 - 07:47 .

[Drasanil]

I agree with the idea that a good portion of this fanbase isn't mature enough or ready for a romance-able trans character, but I disagree that it means Bioware shouldn't make one until they are just because of the future backlash and vitriol they'll get. Something like that cannot be taken into consideration when making new characters period.

 

My main personal hang up is that even in this day and age "trans" is still in the best cases convincing mimicry and not a transition to the real deal so to speak. That said, if a trans character romance were a "bonus" a la Cullen or Solas and didn't take up a slot in the 2/2/2 thing Bioware seem to be going with, I don't think it should be an issue at all. Like at all, no one will have "lost out" on anything and it'll just be an extra for those who want it.  

[raging_monkey]

My main personal hang up is that even in this day and age "trans" is still in the best cases convincing mimicry and not a transition to the real deal so to speak. That said, if a trans character romance were a "bonus" a la Cullen or Solas and didn't take up a slot in the 2/2/2 thing Bioware seem to be going with, I don't think it should be an issue at all. Like at all, no one will have "lost out" on anything and it'll just be an extra for those who want it.

so simple....yet incomprehensible

[Drasanil]

so simple....yet incomprehensible

 

Lol, which part maybe I can crack the code for you.  

[raging_monkey]

Lol, which part maybe I can crack the code for you.

the top part the bonus part I comprend And somewhat agree depending on how it's done lol

[Drasanil]

the top part the bonus part I comprend And somewhat agree depending on how it's done lol

 

Even the most convincing trans person is still just mimicking their desired gender. Given that modern medicine/science has yet to find a way to change the biological male/female into a functional member of the opposite sex.

[raging_monkey]

Even the most convincing trans person is still just mimicking their desired gender. Given that modern medicine/science has yet to find a way to change the biological male/female into a functional member of the opposite sex.

ah now I get you but krem mentions magic like that doesn't he? Audio bug

[Drasanil]

ah now I get you but krem mentions magic like that doesn't he? Audio bug

 

Yeah he does, and he said he wouldn't let it near him. But if magic like that actually works in the Thedas and the trans-character in question used it. Fair game as far as I'm concerned they're a guy/gal.