630 réponses à ce sujet

[AresKeith]

"forced pro-transgender message" lol

[Drasanil]

If you can do things like sell one of your own companions into slavery (Fenris) or order a recovering addict to start huffing again (Cullen), you should definitely be able to do things like express disgust with regards to Krem or even sell out Dorian to his father.

 

None of those are nice things to do, but allowing some while disallowing others because they aren't acceptable targets just reeks of hypocrisy. 

[AresKeith]

If you can do things like sell one of your own companions into slavery (Fenris) or order a recovering addict to start huffing again (Cullen), you should definitely be able to do things like express disgust with regards to Krem or even sell out Dorian to his father.

 

None of those are nice things to do, but allowing some while disallowing others because they aren't acceptable targets just reeks of hypocrisy. 

 

It's not hypocrisy if the past games never did things like express disgust towards people like Krem or Dorian

[mjb203]

It's not hypocrisy if the past games never did things like express disgust towards people like Krem or Dorian

DA:O let you express disgust towards Zevran.

[Drasanil]

It's not hypocrisy if the past games never did things like express disgust towards people like Krem or Dorian

 

You can express disgust towards Zevran for sleeping with men. Gamlen has all sorts of unpleasant views too, so its not like those sentiments aren't there in universe even if they are less common. 

[Milana]

of course straight romance is the most important to the series blergh

 

and he consulted BDSM community? more like the author of 50 shades of grey

 

yeah yeah we know Weeks and Gaider are fans of abusive relationships and like to roleplay them

 

And Inquisitor's lines to Krem? all of them were rude, not ignorant

[AlexiaRevan]

if choices should matter it should matter for all and everything , not just for a minor things cose ya are butthurt in your personal Life . 

[CronoDragoon]

That IS what this is about. Weeks (in my best understanding of the tweets) is talking about injecting liberal ideals into the game with reckless abandon, not giving the players a choice in how to respond through our custom characters, and then flipping us the bird if we don't like it by assuming we're all phobic rather than simply rational gamers who want more dialogue options and a better roleplay experience.

Where did he say he was injecting liberal ideas with reckless abandon? Or is that what it is when a minor side character is made transgender and you aren't given the opportunity to be an ass to their face? (after consideration, I've gone back to calling your character's "dispute" of the notion of transgender being an ass, as anyone who would say such a thing to someone's face surely is)
 

I completely disagree that adding one or two more options to a conversation forces other things out of the game. And even if it did, I'll gladly give up a few fetch quests for it, as I'm sure most of us would.

Not if the option in question is being an ******* to transgender people, no. I'll take the extra Investigate options for the fetch quests, thanks though. As for your former statement, are you aware of the real-life thing called a word budget?
 

"Nature of the choices" would require there actually be more than just the option to blindly agree with the gender concept.

So, the dialogue wheel in question goes like this:

Why pass as a man?
When did you know?
Are you a woman?
And the rest of your crew?

Three options are simply asking a question without agreement. Two of them actually imply that the Inquisitor doesn't see Krem as an actual man, if anything. The last lets you skip over the topic.

So in the end, this hullabaloo about forced acceptance is really a bunch of bull. It's entirely possible to role-play a character who doesn't actually think Krem is a real man but just doesn't blurt it out to his face, and it's entirely possible to skip the entire topic in the game except for like...one line.

[Dai Grepher]

There is no "pro-transgender message". Nobody is asking for your blessings or qualms on the matter.

 

Your character can act either clumsy or polite. Whether it is "pro" or "con" to be transgender or not, is none of your goddamn business.

 

Until you -or your character- is faced with doubts about your/their psychological gender, that is.

 

If the next game has no pro-transgender message, then this discussion is rendered academic. But even if it's presented in concept, with neutrality, and no choice options are given, then my original point still stands. Player choice should be encouraged. Like, hey here's this concept, what do you think of it?

 

*Dialogue wheel appears*
 

I wasn't referring to Inquisition, which I already wrote pulled it off rather well. I'm referring to any future installment.

[CreepingShadow]

Hopefully the architect will show up in a story dlc since there was plans to use him but with other variable characters i can see why they backed off even though i would love to see the relationship of architect and cory trying to outplay each other either as allies or foes would have really helped both character developments

The thing is with the information we now have, we now know that the Architect is not an optional character. As one of the original magisters, he most likely has the ability to body jump. If you killed him he either possessed Utha's corpse or Seranni. The only impact the player has on him is whether he's an ally or an enemy to the Wardens, and with the Grey Wardens current problems the alliance probably fell through anyway.

[Dabrikishaw]

So, let me see if I have everything.

 

• There was a version of Inquisition where the Inquisitor was present for Mythal/Flemeth and Solas' meeting and subsequent death.
• The Architect was included in Here Lies the Abyss at some point. (Kind of makes me mad)
• Earlier versions of Solas lied a lot more. Once again something that suggests to me to believe Solas as long as it isn't something that would otherwise betray his 'hobo elf' identity. "Weakened his character him and Blackwall Liars who don't lie".
• First draft of Solas "All he ever talked about was elves, elves, elves".
• Solas went through more changes than any other character.
• Cole knew exactly who/what Solas is and still knows that information.
• "Hawke might not be dead! Well, obviously."
• Solas' secret was intended from the beginning to be a rewatch bonus.
• "Solas COULD have been the Jack Nicholson screaming Riddler of Dragon Age". Don't you mean Joker?
• The Dread Wolf knowledge of Solas' character was irrelevant to his characterization 
• Solas approves of people who are interested in seeking out knowledge.

[AresKeith]

of course straight romance is the most important to the series blergh

 

and he consulted BDSM community? more like the author of 50 shades of grey

 

yeah yeah we know Weeks and Gaider are fans of abusive relationships and like to roleplay them

 

And Inquisitor's lines to Krem? all of them were rude, not ignorant

 

 

[Panda]

of course straight romance is the most important to the series blergh

 

and he consulted BDSM community? more like the author of 50 shades of grey

 

yeah yeah we know Weeks and Gaider are fans of abusive relationships and like to roleplay them

 

And Inquisitor's lines to Krem? all of them were rude, not ignorant

 

Umm.. at least they are trying. I'd say that comments like this are bit unfair towards writers who actually have tried to do research on the topics that are seen as controversial and that they know they should approach carefully and include them in game. Of cource everyone can't be happy, but I'd say that this is bit unfair towards Bioware who does include more LGBT+ characters and things like BDSM in their games in respectful ways.

[Dai Grepher]

Where did he say he was injecting liberal ideas with reckless abandon? Or is that what it is when a minor side character is made transgender and you aren't given the opportunity to be an ass to their face? (after consideration, I've gone back to calling your character's "dispute" of the notion of transgender being an ass, as anyone who would say such a thing to someone's face surely is)
 

Not if the option in question is being an ******* to transgender people, no. I'll take the extra Investigate options for the fetch quests, thanks though. As for your former statement, are you aware of the real-life thing called a word budget?
 

So, the dialogue wheel in question goes like this:

Why pass as a man?
When did you know?
Are you a woman?
And the rest of your crew?

Three options are simply asking a question without agreement. Two of them actually imply that the Inquisitor doesn't see Krem as an actual man, if anything. The last lets you skip over the topic.

So in the end, this hullabaloo about forced acceptance is really a bunch of bull. It's entirely possible to role-play a character who doesn't actually think Krem is a real man but just doesn't blurt it out to his face, and it's entirely possible to skip the entire topic in the game except for like...one line.

 

I'm not talking about Inquisition. I wrote that Krem was done rather well. I'm talking about any future installment that Weeks might force more transgender themes and plots into, as his twitter messages seem to indicate. If I'm mistaken about what he meant, then I will retract this.

 

Again, not demanding the option to be a jerk. Just to have an opinion that differs from the liberal viewpoint.

[PCThug]

You do realize there's the option to completely bypass the majority of that conversation with Bull and Krem? "And the rest of your crew?" takes you right to learning about the rest of the Chargers, without the "agreeing or encouraging" you find so troublesome.

 

Edit: 'd

[Dai Grepher]

^This isn't about Inquisition or Krem.

[DarkKnightHolmes]

Elves and dwarves aren't real life groups though and mocking surfacers is more like mark of classism since race is same.

 

Players nor characters in the game don't make racist comments towards Isabela, Vivienne, Dorian etc. that would resonate more with IRL racism, but I think it's  good to not have this option in my opinion.

 

Don't have to be real to be hurtful and rude and I'm pretty sure we can mock religion and countries too. Sure they're fiction but a lot of them have many things in commons with real religion, countries and people so I can imagine some people being offended from them too.

 

I'm not truly sure where I stand on this matter really. On one side, I don't want to promote phobia but on the other side some people truly might want to roleplay a character like that and more options, the better in my eyes. It's their play through, not mine.

[Milana]

Umm.. at least they are trying. I'd say that comments like this are bit unfair towards writers who actually have tried to do research on the topics that are seen as controversial and that they know they should approach carefully and include them in game. Of cource everyone can't be happy, but I'd say that this is bit unfair towards Bioware who does include more LGBT+ characters and things like BDSM in their games in respectful ways.

I dont think that BDSM is the theme that need representing to be honest. i have nothing against it but its not a thing of very importance. I just think they added this for the laughs and female fans of 50 shades. 

 

And that Dorian/Bull relationship? If they wanted it to be a normal and healthy they should have explored it more. From the banter it seems one-sided and just creepy.

 

And dont get me started on Krem, are they so ignorant themselves? why couldnt they add less bigoted lines?

[LinksOcarina]

of course straight romance is the most important to the series blergh

 

and he consulted BDSM community? more like the author of 50 shades of grey

 

yeah yeah we know Weeks and Gaider are fans of abusive relationships and like to roleplay them

 

And Inquisitor's lines to Krem? all of them were rude, not ignorant

 

Yeah...considering I have friends who like Bondage, what they did in Inquisition is a bit more accurate than you think.

 

For one, they pretty much got the safety word conversation correct. 

[AresKeith]

I dont think that BDSM is the theme that need representing to be honest. i have nothing against it but its not a thing of very importance. I just think they added this for the laughs and female fans of 50 shades. 

 

Even though BDSM fans keep saying it's nothing like 50 shades

[Panda]

Don't have to be real to be hurtful and rude and I'm pretty sure we can mock religion and countries too. Sure they're fiction but a lot of them have many things in commons with real religion, countries and people so I can imagine some people being offended from them too.

 

I'm not truly sure where I stand on this matter really. On one side, I don't want to promote phobia but on the other side some people truly might want to roleplay a character like that and more options, the better in my eyes. It's their play through, not mine.

 

True, but I don't think overall video games should have options to be very racist, gay/transphobic or sth similar and even less so if it's about sth that is serious real life issue. I guess it's bit balancing on making world have conflicts, but still trying not to hurt IRL groups.

 

I dont think that BDSM is the theme that need representing to be honest. i have nothing against it but its not a thing of very importance. I just think they added this for the laughs and female fans of 50 shades. 

 

And that Dorian/Bull relationship? If they wanted it to be a normal and healthy they should have explored it more. From the banter it seems one-sided and just creepy.

 

And dont get me started on Krem, are they so ignorant themselves? why couldnt they add less bigoted lines?

 

I personally think it's nice to have BDSM represented though I don't think it's same level as representation of sexualities and genders. However I don't find Iron Bull's romance having much to do with 50 shades of grey and I find it great that Weekes did take time to consult real life people on for both Iron Bull's romance and Krem's character. If you read the interview, you probaply spotted that he also admitted that Krem's character wasn't written in best way possible and he would make tweaks now and also that he seems to have learned from this experience and pretty much said DA in the future as well will have transgender characters.

 

It really seems to be that Weekes took lot of effort to make these characters good and accurate. He might have done some mistakes and people can always simply disagree with characters and how they are written too, but I really think he did try and did pretty good job in it. And it's very important to have people trying if players want to have characters that aren't representated much or almost all or misrepresentated in the games.

 

EDIT: ... why is this one word banned here which shouldn't be negative or slur or anything.. okay I'll replace it with gay then.

[Dai Grepher]

I dont think that BDSM is the theme that need representing to be honest. i have nothing against it but its not a thing of very importance. I just think they added this for the laughs and female fans of 50 shades. 

 

And that Dorian/Bull relationship? If they wanted it to be a normal and healthy they should have explored it more. From the banter it seems one-sided and just creepy.

 

And dont get me started on Krem, are they so ignorant themselves? why couldnt they add less bigoted lines?

 

I think The Iron Bull's "romance" was built around the clipping issues. The positions he and the Inquisitor make are uniform across all races. If you're a dwarf, he lifts you up. If you're an elf, he lifts you up. If you're a human, he lifts you up. If you're a qunari, he holds your arms up.

 

As for Krem, this response right here is why future titles with these themes need multiple dialogue options. One set that supports them, one set that opposes them, and a few in between. That way we can all pick the responses we want, and reject the responses we don't like. And there's no risk of BioWare messing things up unintentionally.

[AlexiaRevan]

 

 

As for Krem, this response right here is why future titles with these themes need multiple dialogue options. One set that supports them, one set that opposes them, and a few in between. That way we can all pick the responses we want, and reject the responses we don't like. And there's no risk of BioWare messing things up unintentionally.

why? krem and the chargers aren't companions . 

[CosmicGnosis]

 

Part 2

 

1. VGS ‏@VGS_640  40m40 minutes ago

   #BiowareTalk with @PatrickWeekes: Hawke might not be dead! Well obviously

 

Okay, that settles it. The person you leave in the Fade will probably show up again.

[BansheeOwnage]

I assume you mean skin color prejudice. Well that doesn't exist in Thedas, so no, that option would not be necessary. Though racism between humans, elves, dwarves, and qunari, that does exist. And in reality we've already had those dialog choices in previous games, such as the elf origin in DA:O. And while sexism doesn't really exist in Thedas, it does in Qunari culture. Well, unless you ask The Iron Bull, in which case you can simply change your gender through open declaration.

 

I think instead of pandering to 1% of the population, most of which probably doesn't even play Dragon Age anyway, Weeks should focus on making good storylines for the series that up to 100% of players will find interesting and intriguing.

Yes, I did. And yes, something more along the lines of species-ism exists in DA, and that can be explored, specifically because it can be an allegory to real life without hurting anyone. But homophobia, transphobia, etc. do not exist in DA, and it would make no sense for the PC to take real-world values into the game for the sake of itself.

 

The LGBT community consists of much more than 1% of the population, and you can be sure that more than just that community enjoys stories that have those elements in them.